Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:47 PM - Re: Disabling front cabin heat? (Rob Kochman)
2. 02:36 PM - Re: Disabling front cabin heat? (Linn)
3. 02:51 PM - Re: Disabling front cabin heat? (Werner Schneider)
4. 02:53 PM - Re: Disabling front cabin heat? (Robin Marks)
5. 05:16 PM - Re: Disabling front cabin heat? (Carl Froehlich)
6. 08:29 PM - Re: Cabin heat control knobs (John Zazulka)
7. 08:29 PM - Re: Cabin heat control knobs (John Zazulka)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Disabling front cabin heat? |
Thanks, Gordon... the reason I want to disable it is that it dumps hot air
directly onto the firewall, which makes the cabin warmer. Anyone know if
it's possible to remove the heat muff completely?
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> Rob,
>
> I think your concern is valid. The muff will insulate the exhaust pipe
> and you may end up with a high temperature gradient between the section
> outside the muff and inside it, possibly resulting in deformation or
> cracking after a while. Since cracking would release exhaust into the cowl
> area, it could become a real concern. Personally I would keep the cool air
> supply to the muff and dump the hot air coming out of it. Since that is
> what happens in the stock system when the heater flap valve is closed, I
> don't follow why you want to disable it at all, rather than just not use
> it. If I really wanted to disable it I would probably just disconnect the
> control cable and use Biotherm to seal the flap in the closed position.
>
> Gordon Anderson
>
> On Mar 21, 2013, at 2:44 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
>
> Thanks, guys... my concern is that with no airflow into the muff, it's
> acting as an insulator on the exhaust pipe. Perhaps it's nothing to worry
> about, though.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:32 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>wrote:
>
>> Rob,
>>
>> Not all exhaust pipes even have heat muffs. I can't imagine it getting
>> too hot there and being ok with the temperature along the rest of the
>> exhaust. I'd leave it off completely. Instead, you might hook it up as
>> normal and just cover over the hole in the baffles so you could easily add
>> it if you want to.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse@itecusa.org
>> www.itecusa.org
>> www.mavericklsa.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> O: 352-465-4545
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:54 PM, Rob Kochman <rv10rob@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone disabled the front cabin heat in their RV-10? I'm finding
>> that even on really cold days, I only need partial rear heat to keep things
>> warm, and I never use the front heat, since I want to minimize heat behind
>> the panel. In the warm summer months, I don't want all that hot air
>> blowing on the firewall. I don't think I can just disconnect the air hose
>> to the muff, since the exhaust pipe would probably get too hot. If
>> nothing else, I figure I could disconnect the air hose between the muff and
>> firewall at the firewall and just point it down toward the cowl exit. Of
>> course, I would have to seal the hole in the firewall.
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks...
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> --
>> Rob Kochman
>> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
>> Woodinville, WA
>> http://kochman.net/N819K
>>
>> *
>>
>> =========
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========cs.com
>> ==========matronics.com/contribution
>> =========
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
> Woodinville, WA
> http://kochman.net/N819K
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Disabling front cabin heat? |
It took me a while, but I finally understand!!! Which causes my addled
brain to ask ..... Did anyone insulate the firewall??? On the engine
side or cabin side ..... and with what???
Linn .... so many things to think about ....
On 3/22/2013 4:46 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
> Thanks, Gordon... the reason I want to disable it is that it dumps hot
> air directly onto the firewall, which makes the cabin warmer. Anyone
> know if it's possible to remove the heat muff completely?
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan@hispeed.ch
> <mailto:mregoan@hispeed.ch>> wrote:
>
> Rob,
>
> I think your concern is valid. The muff will insulate the exhaust
> pipe and you may end up with a high temperature gradient between
> the section outside the muff and inside it, possibly resulting in
> deformation or cracking after a while. Since cracking would
> release exhaust into the cowl area, it could become a real
> concern. Personally I would keep the cool air supply to the muff
> and dump the hot air coming out of it. Since that is what happens
> in the stock system when the heater flap valve is closed, I don't
> follow why you want to disable it at all, rather than just not use
> it. If I really wanted to disable it I would probably just
> disconnect the control cable and use Biotherm to seal the flap in
> the closed position.
>
> Gordon Anderson
>
> On Mar 21, 2013, at 2:44 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
>
>> Thanks, guys... my concern is that with no airflow into the muff,
>> it's acting as an insulator on the exhaust pipe. Perhaps it's
>> nothing to worry about, though.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:32 AM, Jesse Saint
>> <jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Rob,
>>
>> Not all exhaust pipes even have heat muffs. I can't imagine
>> it getting too hot there and being ok with the temperature
>> along the rest of the exhaust. I'd leave it off completely.
>> Instead, you might hook it up as normal and just cover over
>> the hole in the baffles so you could easily add it if you
>> want to.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org/>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com/>
>> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>
>> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>
>> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:54 PM, Rob Kochman <rv10rob@gmail.com
>> <mailto:rv10rob@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone disabled the front cabin heat in their RV-10?
>>> I'm finding that even on really cold days, I only need
>>> partial rear heat to keep things warm, and I never use the
>>> front heat, since I want to minimize heat behind the panel.
>>> In the warm summer months, I don't want all that hot air
>>> blowing on the firewall. I don't think I can just
>>> disconnect the air hose to the muff, since the exhaust pipe
>>> would probably get too hot. If nothing else, I figure I
>>> could disconnect the air hose between the muff and firewall
>>> at the firewall and just point it down toward the cowl exit.
>>> Of course, I would have to seal the hole in the firewall.
>>>
>>> Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks...
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rob Kochman
>>> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
>>> Woodinville, WA
>>> http://kochman.net/N819K
>>> *
>>>
>>> =========
>>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>>> =========
>>> cs.com <http://cs.com/>
>>> =========
>>> matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
>>> =========
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rob Kochman
>> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
>> Woodinville, WA
>> http://kochman.net/N819K
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
> Woodinville, WA
> http://kochman.net/N819K
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Disabling front cabin heat? |
On my other plan, the Glastar we had the same problem, the closed valve
did dump all hot air direct into the upper FW area, nothing we did like.
One of our builders manufactured an enclosure around the heat valve and
that enclosure did dump all air via another scat tube directly to the
exit ramp of the cowling. Now the Glastar has a different type of valve
but I see no reason why one could fabricate a similar thing for the RV-10.
Werner
On 22.03.2013 21:46, Rob Kochman wrote:
> Thanks, Gordon... the reason I want to disable it is that it dumps hot
> air directly onto the firewall, which makes the cabin warmer.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Disabling front cabin heat? |
No. Anything fwf can oil soaked and potentially interfere with servicing.
Leave as is.
Robin
Linn <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
It took me a while, but I finally understand!!! Which causes my addled bra
in to ask ..... Did anyone insulate the firewall??? On the engine side or
cabin side ..... and with what???
Linn .... so many things to think about ....
On 3/22/2013 4:46 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
Thanks, Gordon... the reason I want to disable it is that it dumps hot air
directly onto the firewall, which makes the cabin warmer. Anyone know if i
t's possible to remove the heat muff completely?
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan@hispeed.ch<mailto
:mregoan@hispeed.ch>> wrote:
Rob,
I think your concern is valid. The muff will insulate the exhaust pipe and
you may end up with a high temperature gradient between the section outsid
e the muff and inside it, possibly resulting in deformation or cracking aft
er a while. Since cracking would release exhaust into the cowl area, it co
uld become a real concern. Personally I would keep the cool air supply to
the muff and dump the hot air coming out of it. Since that is what happens
in the stock system when the heater flap valve is closed, I don't follow w
hy you want to disable it at all, rather than just not use it. If I really
wanted to disable it I would probably just disconnect the control cable an
d use Biotherm to seal the flap in the closed position.
Gordon Anderson
On Mar 21, 2013, at 2:44 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
Thanks, guys... my concern is that with no airflow into the muff, it's acti
ng as an insulator on the exhaust pipe. Perhaps it's nothing to worry abou
t, though.
-Rob
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:32 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com<mailt
o:jesse@saintaviation.com>> wrote:
Rob,
Not all exhaust pipes even have heat muffs. I can't imagine it getting too
hot there and being ok with the temperature along the rest of the exhaust.
I'd leave it off completely. Instead, you might hook it up as normal and ju
st cover over the hole in the baffles so you could easily add it if you wan
t to.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org<mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
www.itecusa.org<http://www.itecusa.org/>
www.mavericklsa.com<http://www.mavericklsa.com/>
C: 352-427-0285<tel:352-427-0285>
O: 352-465-4545<tel:352-465-4545>
F: 815-377-3694<tel:815-377-3694>
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:54 PM, Rob Kochman <rv10rob@gmail.com<mailto:rv10rob
@gmail.com>> wrote:
Has anyone disabled the front cabin heat in their RV-10? I'm finding that
even on really cold days, I only need partial rear heat to keep things warm
, and I never use the front heat, since I want to minimize heat behind the
panel. In the warm summer months, I don't want all that hot air blowing on
the firewall. I don't think I can just disconnect the air hose to the muf
f, since the exhaust pipe would probably get too hot. If nothing else, I
figure I could disconnect the air hose between the muff and firewall at th
e firewall and just point it down toward the cowl exit. Of course, I would
have to seal the hole in the firewall.
Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks...
-Rob
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
=========
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?RV10-List>
=========
cs.com<http://cs.com/>
=========
matronics.com/contribution<http://matronics.com/contribution>
=========
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
03/21/13
Message 5
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| Subject: | Disabling front cabin heat? |
I posted this awhile back on what I did:
I have a small piece of KoolMat
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/insulation/koolmat.php on the
firewall. It is between the cabin heat control valves and the firewall,
then extents up and over the top of the valves. The idea is to not blast
the engine and fuel pump with hot heat muff air that bounces off the valves
back toward the engine when the valves are shut (on hot days when you least
want hot air banging on the fuel pump). So the KoolMat insulates some
thermal heat transfer to the firewall, and looping the KoolMat over the top
and then down in front of the valves directs the dumped heat muff air down
and away from the engine.
Regarding the heat muff air itself, there is a balance between having heat
on a cold day, and on hot days robbing engine cooling air off the top of the
engine just to dump hot air near the cowl exit - right where you want the
lowest pressure possible to draw more cooling air through the engine. I
have two 2" SCAT hose flanges over #5 cylinder, one for each heat muff.
This proved to be way too much air volume. I put a piece of .025 aluminum
disc with a 1" hole in it over the edge of each flange (the disc is just a
bit bigger than the flange diameter). The disc is held in with aluminum
tape and the SCAT hose slides over it. This does two things; reduces the
volume of air coming off the top of the engine and slows down the air in the
heat muff so the air is warmer, but less flow in the cabin. This is still
more heat than I'll likely ever need, but I'm happy with the compromise. If
you are still building, an easier way to do this is to just have one 2"
flange on the rear baffle, then a Y to connect two SCAT hoses.
One other trick I did was fabricate a couple of 2" to 1.5" reducers so I
could run 1.5" SCAT hose in the tunnel for the rear heat. This solves a lot
of clearance issues caused by the 2" rear heat SCAT hose.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Disabling front cabin heat?
On my other plan, the Glastar we had the same problem, the closed valve did
dump all hot air direct into the upper FW area, nothing we did like.
One of our builders manufactured an enclosure around the heat valve and that
enclosure did dump all air via another scat tube directly to the exit ramp
of the cowling. Now the Glastar has a different type of valve but I see no
reason why one could fabricate a similar thing for the RV-10.
Werner
On 22.03.2013 21:46, Rob Kochman wrote:
> Thanks, Gordon... the reason I want to disable it is that it dumps hot
> air directly onto the firewall, which makes the cabin warmer.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin heat control knobs |
Unrelated post but has anyone veiwed the new conforma tips for the
RV-7,8,9, and RV-10 and F1 rocket from aveoengineering.com. They look
really nice.
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> wrote
:
> Jesse****
>
> ** **
>
> Will you please send me a picture of your setup.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> Carlos ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint
> *Sent:* quarta-feira, 20 de Mar=E7o de 2013 23:16
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Cabin heat control knobs****
>
> ** **
>
> I put these controls and the air filter bypass on a plate that attached t
o
> the rear of the panel with screws from the front. The knobs fit through a
n
> oval hole cut in the panel. Otherwise the controls will have to be remove
d
> if you want to take the panel out. Makes service much easier.
>
> Sent from my iPad****
>
>
> On Mar 20, 2013, at 2:14 PM, "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> wrote
:
> ****
>
> Regarding the cabin heat system, I have a couple of questions:****
>
> ****
>
> - Where did you put the control knobs of the cables which control
> the rear and front cabin heat?****
>
> Is it good to put the front heat control knob in the instrument panel, an
d
> the rear heat control knob behind the front seats, thus leaving this
> control (only) reachable by the rear passengers?****
>
> ****
>
> - Those of you who used the modified =93T=94 (VA175), in order to
have
> left / right control, where did you put the control knob for this feature
?
> ****
>
> ****
>
> Cheers****
>
> Carlos ****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *========================
===========*
>
> *://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *========================
===========*
>
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>
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===========*
>
> *matronics.com/contribution*
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===========*
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>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *< - The RV10-List Email Forum Use the Matronics List Features Navig
ator to browse*
>
> **
>
> **
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>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin heat control knobs |
Go to Blog and scroll down.
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 11:28 PM, John Zazulka <jpiper623@gmail.com> wrote:
> Unrelated post but has anyone veiwed the new conforma tips for the
> RV-7,8,9, and RV-10 and F1 rocket from aveoengineering.com. They look
> really nice.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>wrot
e:
>
>> Jesse****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Will you please send me a picture of your setup.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thanks****
>>
>> Carlos ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint
>> *Sent:* quarta-feira, 20 de Mar=E7o de 2013 23:16
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Cabin heat control knobs****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I put these controls and the air filter bypass on a plate that attached
>> to the rear of the panel with screws from the front. The knobs fit throu
gh
>> an oval hole cut in the panel. Otherwise the controls will have to be
>> removed if you want to take the panel out. Makes service much easier.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad****
>>
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2013, at 2:14 PM, "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Regarding the cabin heat system, I have a couple of questions:****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> - Where did you put the control knobs of the cables which control
>> the rear and front cabin heat?****
>>
>> Is it good to put the front heat control knob in the instrument panel,
>> and the rear heat control knob behind the front seats, thus leaving this
>> control (only) reachable by the rear passengers?****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> - Those of you who used the modified =93T=94 (VA175), in order to
have
>> left / right control, where did you put the control knob for this featur
e?
>> ****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Cheers****
>>
>> Carlos ****
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *=======================
============*
>>
>> *://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>> *=======================
============*
>>
>> *cs.com*
>>
>> *=======================
============*
>>
>> *matronics.com/contribution*
>>
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============*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *< - The RV10-List Email Forum Use the Matronics List Features Navi
gator to browse*
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>
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