Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in my (jkreidler)
2. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: A Plane is born (John Cox)
3. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in my (Bill Watson)
4. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in my ()
5. 03:07 PM - IO540 hot starts (Linn)
6. 03:20 PM - Re: IO540 hot starts (Robin Marks)
7. 03:57 PM - Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in my (jkreidler)
8. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in my (Miller John)
9. 08:01 PM - Re: IO540 hot starts (Kelly McMullen)
10. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in my (Kelly McMullen)
11. 08:09 PM - Re: IO540 hot starts (Robin Marks)
12. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in my (Dave Saylor)
13. 09:35 PM - Re: Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in my (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in |
my
Bill, how was the engine school?
Thanks - Jason
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398632#398632
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| Subject: | Re: RE: A Plane is born |
It is truly wonderful to hear of the completion and your addition of an
Alternate Engined RV-10 to the stable of so many versatile 4 passenger -
Experimental Built Cruisers.
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Again****
>
> ** **
>
> I almost forgot - A very Special Thanks to David Maib with whom I did my
> transition training! He is an outstanding instructor.****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers****
>
> ** **
>
> Les****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Les Kearney [mailto:kearney@shaw.ca]
> *Sent:* April-07-13 11:28 PM
> *To:* 'rv10-list@matronics.com'
> *Subject:* A Plane is born****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi****
>
> ** **
>
> After 6 years and 178 days, RV10 C-GCWZ took to the air at Camrose Airport
> in Alberta, Canada.****
>
> ** **
>
> I would like to thank all the usual suspects but especially Tim Olson for
> his website, Matt Dralle for this list and Dave Saylor for his fiberglass
> seminar. Thanks to all those who answered my cries for help. Learning how
> to build a plane is harder and perhaps takes longer than the actual
> building process. Having access to the collective wisdom of this group was
> quite literally pricesless. In every sense you were my build partners.***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers****
>
> ** **
>
> Les Kearney****
>
> #40-643 Now Flying!!!!!!! ****
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School |
in my
On 4/15/2013 7:52 AM, jkreidler wrote:
>
> Bill, how was the engine school?
> Thanks - Jason
Engine school was great. I decided to attend as I began the maintenance
leg of my RV10 journey. That was a good decision. Taking it during the
build is just a distraction /unless perhaps /you are installing a used
engine that will require engine work beyond bolting it on and plumbing
it up.
The 'school' consists of 2 classes - the first is 3.5 days of classroom
going through Lycoming service pubs and an overview of engine
construction, operation and maintenance. We also did a factory
walk-thru. No hands on.
The 2nd class is 2.5 days of shop time disassembling and re-assembling
an engine. All hands on.
They schedule these two classes on adjacent weeks so that that both can
be taken together with a weekend in between. Class 1 is a pre-req to
class 2.
"Lycosaurs" indeed; Just as the basic engine designs date back to the
40s or 50s, the class sort of does too. The classroom stuff is done
with a minimum of flash and classroom technology and well, a shop is a
shop. Very nice training facility right on Williamsport airport. The
'star' of the show from my perspective was the instructor, Jim Doebler.
He taught 100% of both classes. Not knowing who else might teach it
from time to time, I would insist on him teaching my class.
Jim's been with or around Lycoming his entire career in various
capacities. But clearly he has taught this material many times and is
thoroughly knowledgeable on just about anything and everything having to
do with Lycoming engines including trouble shooting. Most important, he
is a master instructor who doesn't waste a single word. He tells some
stories but you quickly learn they all teach a point. No extra material
covered, only the most relevant. It while seemed slow paced but it
wasn't. It was paced just right.
Students in the class were primarily maintenance people working in the
field. A number of foreigners. Most students had substantial
maintenance experience. There was a sprinkling of homebuilder people as
well.
You walk out of the 1st class with a complete set of Service bulletins,
letters, and Instructions (the same box of paper you probably received
with your new engine) shipped to you home. I was not alone among the
homebuilders who felt that now, we can productively use that humongous
stack of papers instead of just storing it.
The second class ships you an overhaul manual.
What can you do after completion? Well, training someone to do engine
overhauls takes many weeks. But as a homebuilder who is not
particularly experienced with engine work, I'm confident I could do one
on mine if I so chose. More important, I feel confident that given the
proper resources, I can do whatever is required to maintain that lovely
IO-540 going forward.
I highly recommend the class to any builder who has not really worked
with aircraft engines before, but intends to perform as much maintenance
as they are comfortable with. I highly recommend getting Jim Doebler to
instruct.
Other notes:
There are few handouts. Slides covered in class are not available. You
can take phone pictures if you care too. I took copious notes (most of
the others didn't but they were experienced).
They do this class 4 times a year I believe. It gets pretty booked up
in advance but since they don't require payment until just before
class, there are often late cancellations. If you are flexible, it's
worth being on the waiting list. It's worth a call at the last possible
moment before a class to see if there were any very late dropouts. Our
class had been fully booked but there were empty seats.
Flying into the class is a great way to attend. The recommended Holiday
Inn quite nice and will shuttle you back and forth to class. You don't
need a car but a number of the students expensed one and shuttled many
of us back and forth.
Jim knows his way around the area and will suggest where to best get
lunch and dinner. However one gem unmentioned by him is the airport
restaurant, Cloud 9. That restaurant is now on my list of "stop and
eat" airport places. That restaurant, the classroom building and the
FBO are all within walking distance of one another.
Perhaps the most interesting part of the experience is seeing filled
hotels and a lot of commercial activity going on in this somewhat out of
the way place. Fracking is underway in a big way in central PA.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School |
in my
Hey Bill,
Did anyone ask Jim about hot engine starts on the IO-540? That has
been addressed here, but with different styles from different folks.
Just wondered if someone of his experience had a recommended technique.
Later, =93 Lew
Message 5
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| Subject: | IO540 hot starts |
At Sun-n-Fun I was talking to Les Staples of SkyTech fame. He's
developed a unit that he calls 'hot start' for his RV-10. Give him a
shout at les @ skytecair.com ...... remove the spaces.
Linn
On 4/15/2013 5:01 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
> Hey Bill,
> Did anyone ask Jim about hot engine starts on the IO-540? That has
> been addressed here, but with different styles from different folks.
> Just wondered if someone of his experience had a recommended technique.
> Later, =93 Lew
> *
>
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>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
13
>
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| Subject: | IO540 hot starts |
Aren't most Hot Start procedures a variation of:
Throttle / Prop Forward
Mixture Cut Off
Crank till you clear the cylinders and then slowly add Mixture?
Throttle back to 1000 RPM once firing enough to keep alive
Obviously there are variations such as a purge valve requires one to Mixtur
e Cutoff then cycle cool fuel prior to cranking.
Let the Hot Start war begin.
Robin
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com] on behalf of Linn [flying-nut@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 3:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IO540 hot starts
At Sun-n-Fun I was talking to Les Staples of SkyTech fame. He's developed
a unit that he calls 'hot start' for his RV-10. Give him a shout at les @
skytecair.com ...... remove the spaces.
Linn
On 4/15/2013 5:01 PM, lewgall@charter.net<mailto:lewgall@charter.net> wrote
:
Hey Bill,
Did anyone ask Jim about hot engine starts on the IO-540? That has been a
ddressed here, but with different styles from different folks. Just wonder
ed if someone of his experience had a recommended technique.
Later, ' Lew
om/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
04/15/13
________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School in |
my
Thanks Bill - this sounds great. May I ask how much they charged?
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398667#398667
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School |
in my
Lew,
After about 100 hrs and numerous hot start problems, another -10 builder
put me onto this technique.
Throttle - 1/2 to 1 inch open.
Mixture - full lean
Boost pump - on
Begin cranking and simultaneously move the mixture in towards the half
way position.
As it starts firing, increase mixture slightly and may need to modulate
throttle momentarily.
Leave boost pump on for a couple of minutes after it fires.
Works every time!
grumpy
N184JM
On Apr 15, 2013, at 4:01 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> <lewgall@charter.net>
wrote:
> Hey Bill,
>
> Did anyone ask Jim about hot engine starts on the IO-540? That has
been addressed here, but with different styles from different folks.
Just wondered if someone of his experience had a recommended technique.
>
> Later, ' Lew
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: IO540 hot starts |
Ugh. I hate full throttle start attempts. That is the heavily flooded
procedure. Hazardous to your prop, hard on the engine.
No need in injected Lycomings I have flown. Do NOT use boost pump at all.
Just 1/4" to 1/2" throttle, mixt. idle cutoff, prop full, crank 6 blades
and if no fire, ease mixture slowly forward until it does fire. Been using
that for the past 14 years in my Mooney with no issues.
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Robin Marks <robin@painttheweb.com> wrote:
> Aren't most Hot Start procedures a variation of:
>
> Throttle / Prop Forward
> Mixture Cut Off
> Crank till you clear the cylinders and then slowly add Mixture?
> Throttle back to 1000 RPM once firing enough to keep alive
>
> Obviously there are variations such as a purge valve requires one to
> Mixture Cutoff then cycle cool fuel prior to cranking.
>
> Let the Hot Start war begin.
>
> Robin
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Linn [
> flying-nut@cfl.rr.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, April 15, 2013 3:06 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: IO540 hot starts
>
> At Sun-n-Fun I was talking to Les Staples of SkyTech fame. He's
> developed a unit that he calls 'hot start' for his RV-10. Give him a sho
ut
> at les @ skytecair.com ...... remove the spaces.
> Linn
>
>
> On 4/15/2013 5:01 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> Did anyone ask Jim about hot engine starts on the IO-540? That has been
> addressed here, but with different styles from different folks. Just
> wondered if someone of his experience had a recommended technique.
>
> Later, ' Lew
>
> *
>
> om/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> s.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Lists.com>">http://forums.
matronics.com
> om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 04/15/13
>
>
> *
>
> ==========
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
> *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> p>
>
> *
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>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School |
in my
Your boost pump is NOT helping anything with Bendix or AFP injection
system. It only helps for Continental injection systems. Better to delay
bringing in mixture a couple seconds as it may start without it.
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com> wrote:
> Lew,
>
> After about 100 hrs and numerous hot start problems, another -10 builder
> put me onto this technique.
>
> Throttle - 1/2 to 1 inch open.
>
> Mixture - full lean
>
> Boost pump - on
>
> Begin cranking and simultaneously move the mixture in towards the half wa
y
> position.
>
> As it starts firing, increase mixture slightly and may need to modulate
> throttle momentarily.
>
> Leave boost pump on for a couple of minutes after it fires.
>
> Works every time!
>
> grumpy
> N184JM
>
> On Apr 15, 2013, at 4:01 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> <lewgall@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> Did anyone ask Jim about hot engine starts on the IO-540? That has been
> addressed here, but with different styles from different folks. Just
> wondered if someone of his experience had a recommended technique.
>
> Later, ' Lew
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
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===========
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===========
> *
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: IO540 hot starts |
I'll give it a try. I don't care for fwf much either but has always worked
. And I don't use boost Pump either.
Robin
Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
Ugh. I hate full throttle start attempts. That is the heavily flooded proce
dure. Hazardous to your prop, hard on the engine.
No need in injected Lycomings I have flown. Do NOT use boost pump at all. J
ust 1/4" to 1/2" throttle, mixt. idle cutoff, prop full, crank 6 blades and
if no fire, ease mixture slowly forward until it does fire. Been using tha
t for the past 14 years in my Mooney with no issues.
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Robin Marks <robin@painttheweb.com<mailto:
robin@painttheweb.com>> wrote:
Aren't most Hot Start procedures a variation of:
Throttle / Prop Forward
Mixture Cut Off
Crank till you clear the cylinders and then slowly add Mixture?
Throttle back to 1000 RPM once firing enough to keep alive
Obviously there are variations such as a purge valve requires one to Mixtur
e Cutoff then cycle cool fuel prior to cranking.
Let the Hot Start war begin.
Robin
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma
tronics.com> [owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-s
erver@matronics.com>] on behalf of Linn [flying-nut@cfl.rr.com<mailto:flyin
g-nut@cfl.rr.com>]
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 3:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IO540 hot starts
At Sun-n-Fun I was talking to Les Staples of SkyTech fame. He's developed
a unit that he calls 'hot start' for his RV-10. Give him a shout at les @
skytecair.com<http://skytecair.com> ...... remove the spaces.
Linn
On 4/15/2013 5:01 PM, lewgall@charter.net<mailto:lewgall@charter.net> wrote
:
Hey Bill,
Did anyone ask Jim about hot engine starts on the IO-540? That has been a
ddressed here, but with different styles from different folks. Just wonder
ed if someone of his experience had a recommended technique.
Later, ' Lew
om/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
s.com<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Lists.com>">http://forums.mat
ronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
04/15/13
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
p>
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School |
in my
We have to start lots of different engines. They all have
their idiosyncrasies and people figure out what works for each individual
installation. But if the ignition and starting system are in good
condition (big if sometimes...), this works for me, hot or cold. Consider
this a universal method for injected Lycs:
Full throttle, full mixture. That opens everything up as far as possible.
Boost pump on until the fuel pressure approaches peak. No need to hold out
for the final PSI, just watch for the rate of rise start to taper off.
Boost pump off. Allows fuel to fill the injector lines without vapors.
Throttle back to 1/4" (just cracked). Mixture to ICO. At this point, the
cylinder charge is over-rich and probably won't ignite.
Then crank with ignition for start per your installation--one mag, EI, both
mags--it just depends on how your system is configured. The engine clears
out the excess fuel and eventually reaches the correct mixture to start.
Since it's at ICO, no fuel is being added, just removed.
As the engine starts to fire, move the mixture S L O W L Y towards full
rich. ICO to full rich should take about 2 seconds.
Adjust throttle as necessary.
About the only change I make to this procedure is to sometimes give 1/2" of
throttle if it's being stubborn. If it won't start like this, I look for
some other problem. I've been very happy with SlickStart installations.
As long as it's timed right, a SlickStarts always give a good hot spark,
which is obviously required for starting.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Your boost pump is NOT helping anything with Bendix or AFP injection
> system. It only helps for Continental injection systems. Better to delay
> bringing in mixture a couple seconds as it may start without it.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Lew,
>>
>> After about 100 hrs and numerous hot start problems, another -10 builder
>> put me onto this technique.
>>
>> Throttle - 1/2 to 1 inch open.
>>
>> Mixture - full lean
>>
>> Boost pump - on
>>
>> Begin cranking and simultaneously move the mixture in towards the half
>> way position.
>>
>> As it starts firing, increase mixture slightly and may need to modulate
>> throttle momentarily.
>>
>> Leave boost pump on for a couple of minutes after it fires.
>>
>> Works every time!
>>
>> grumpy
>> N184JM
>>
>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 4:01 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> <lewgall@charter.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Bill,
>>
>> Did anyone ask Jim about hot engine starts on the IO-540? That has bee
n
>> addressed here, but with different styles from different folks. Just
>> wondered if someone of his experience had a recommended technique.
>>
>> Later, =93 Lew
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
>
> *
>
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> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting weather flight to Lycoming Engine School |
in my
As an A&P I sure would not want to use your method on a warm or hot
Lycoming. Even on a cold Lycoming 3-4 secs of boost pump on to prime is
plenty.
When hot, you are pumping fuel into the cylinder, guaranteeing that it
is flooded. On a hot Lycoming there is NO fuel in the injection lines.
It has already boiled out and is either vapor in the manifold or
evaporated.
Flooding the engine washes oil off the cylinder walls. Excess fuel gets
in the oil. All bad for the engine life. Throttle 1/4" will take a long
time to clear the excess fuel.
Either don't put ANY fuel into the cylinder or go to wide open throttle
before cranking to clear the excess fuel quickly.
Boost pump on hot engine is only good on Continental injection systems
that have a return line to fuel tanks allowing cool fuel to be pumped
all the way through fuel lines and back to the tank. Bendix and similar
systems do not allow fuel flow that does not go into the cylinders.
On 4/15/2013 8:38 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> this works for me, hot or cold. Consider this a universal method
> for injected Lycs:
>
> Full throttle, full mixture. That opens everything up as far as possible.
>
> Boost pump on until the fuel pressure approaches peak. No need to
> hold out for the final PSI, just watch for the rate of rise start to
> taper off. Boost pump off. Allows fuel to fill the injector lines
> without vapors.
> Throttle back to 1/4" (just cracked). Mixture to ICO. At this point,
> the cylinder charge is over-rich and probably won't ignite.
>
>
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