Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: Flap trailing edge Proseal (Carl Froehlich)
2. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Engine Mount (Carl Froehlich)
3. 07:37 AM - Re: Engine Mount (Nikolaos Napoli)
4. 11:12 AM - Avionic wiring nightmare (Mike Whisky)
5. 11:44 AM - Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (Robin Marks)
6. 11:57 AM - Re: Engine Mount (bill.peyton)
7. 12:13 PM - Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (Carl Froehlich)
8. 01:44 PM - Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (Bob Turner)
9. 01:48 PM - Re: Flap trailing edge Proseal (Ron B.)
10. 01:55 PM - Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (davidsoutpost@comcast.net)
11. 04:02 PM - Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (Dave Saylor)
12. 04:22 PM - Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (Linn)
13. 04:57 PM - Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (Stein Bruch)
14. 08:18 PM - Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (Bob Turner)
15. 08:35 PM - Re: Re: Avionic wiring nightmare (Linn)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flap trailing edge Proseal |
I don't know what the long term corrosion aspects are with tape.
I found 3M Scotch-Weld 2216 to work very well for these trailing edge jobs
as well as anything else that needed a strong epoxy that works well with
mixed materials:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/epoxy_3m/3mAdhesive2216.php
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10flyer
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 12:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flap trailing edge Proseal
The tensile strength of Proseal is approximately 300 psi and I know it is
safe to use with aluminum. The tensile strength of double sided tape varies
from 10-85 psi and consist of many different adhesives. Proseal adds a lot
of shear and tensile strength to a riveted joint. Assemble two scrap pieces
of aluminum together with Proseal and then try pulling them apart.
--------
Wayne G.
SB 12/01/2009-12/01/2011
TT= 97.6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398923#398923
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount |
On approach that worked well for me. Drill out the firewall holes to
=BC=94.
Use =BC=94 bolts with a sleeve of 3/8=94 nylon tubing to bolt up the
engine mount
(the tubing centers the bolts on the engine mount weldments). Put a
bolt
into each weldment. Once the engine mount is bolted to the firewall
(some
persuasion may be needed), take out one bolt at a time and drill through
the
engine mount to final size. Insert a full size bolt in that hole and
repeat
for the other holes.
Simple and works every time.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Engine Mount
I'm far from an expert but would a reamer not be a good way to open up
the
final hole size? I use one every chance I get.
Rick
#40956
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
wrote:
Mine too. In fact, I had to pull on the mount so I could see all of the
hole
in the firewall thru the mount.
Van's advice was to use the mount as a guide, and just go ahead and
drill,
as long as the resulting final holes were going to be round.
Seemed to work okay, the mount is a good guide so the drill doesn't
wander
in the off-center hole in the firewall.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398917#398917
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount |
I believe thats typical. The engine mount tends to be off a bit. On mine I
preloaded it a bit using just using hand pressure to get the holes to align
better
Good luck with it
Niko
Nikolaos Napoli
On Apr 18, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com> wro
te:
> I am starting to drill and attach the engine mount to the firewall.
>
> I noticed that after I got the first AN6 attach bolt holding the engine mo
unt in place, the other guide holes in the firewall were visible, but not pe
rfectly centered in the engine mount bolt holes.
>
> Is this something I should be concerned about? Did anyone else experience
this? Should I drill away?
>
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
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| Subject: | Avionic wiring nightmare |
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500
wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430
to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I
installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying
to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off
and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward
position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back
there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall
when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas
how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398964#398964
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| Subject: | Avionic wiring nightmare |
When possible we include a "service loop" so the poor bastard that has to hunt
down wiring issues can review the the connectors without inverted training.
Robin
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Mike Whisky [rv-10@wellenzohn.net]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500
wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430
to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I
installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying
to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off
and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward
position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back
there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall
when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas
how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398964#398964
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount |
I actually jigged the drill and used the pilot holes prior to attaching the mount.
It took a lot of persuading, but all of the bolts eventually went into the
mounts. My rationale was that the firewall pilot holes were far more accurate
than the weldment.
Having done it this way, if I did it again I would drill the top two holes using
the firewall pilot holes as the center, I would attach the mount with the top
two holes and then use the mount as a drill guide for the remaining 4 holes.
It will make for a much easier removal and installation if ever required.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398969#398969
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| Subject: | Avionic wiring nightmare |
Or, design the panel so it comes out as a unit so you can do this on the
bench.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
When possible we include a "service loop" so the poor bastard that has to
hunt down wiring issues can review the the connectors without inverted
training.
Robin
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Mike Whisky
[rv-10@wellenzohn.net]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the
AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the
GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right
hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti
collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel
trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting
the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the
most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never
have to go back there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't
recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any
ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398964#398964
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
The pins should be partially engaged before you do any torquing on the Allan wrench.
If you feel any resistance for the last few mm of insertion stop, back out
a bit and wiggle slightly as you slide it in by hand. It is a matter of feel
but there is a difference if all the pins are not lined up.
Don't feel bad. I've seen this happen at least twice, by different professional
avionics shops.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398977#398977
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| Subject: | Re: Flap trailing edge Proseal |
I used Pro seal on the RV-10 and have a fresh unopened can in the freezer. I also
have purchased the 3M tape Van's recommends now. Pro seal was no big deal and
I have not ruled out using it. I would think Pro seal would be better than
the tape even though the rivets alone are supposed to do the job. The bonding
is for assembly only as per Van's
Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398978#398978
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| Subject: | Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
Man can I relate as I am wiring my panel now. I did as many of the pins as I could
on the bench. There is still a ton to do while in the plane doing the final
connections. The pins bend easily,,,especially the high density pins Garmin
love's to use. I've been triple checking each and every one as they go in: Good
crimp, proper location, and then a gentle tug and push on the pin to make certain
its engaged in the D-sub. Finally examine the filled D-sub looking for any
pins that don't line up and straighten them out. I don't know at what stage
of installing the avionic in the tray the pins engage but you probably would
not really feel the resistance with an HD pin that did not engage properly as
you seat the avionic in the tray with the Allen wrench. I did make all my wires
long enough to be able to pull out of the front of the panel and I also interconnected
my three avionics trays and it removes as a unit with 8 screws if I
need to access the tray connectors.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Whisky" <rv-10@wellenzohn.net>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:10:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason the AF-4500
wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed the GNS430
to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the right hole when I
installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel trying
to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting the pin off
and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the most awkward
position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back
there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't recall
when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before, any ideas
how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398964#398964
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
Working on the back of the radios happens a lot more often than most
builders realize. It really helps to have a plan while you're building that
will provide access there. It helps to break up the panel into sections
that can be removed to make a hole.
Another thing that helps a lot is to use the long thumbscrews to attach the
D-connectors to the cans. The screws that Garmin ships now have serrations
for fingers and also hex drives for a socket, much better than short screws
with plain slots that can literally take hours to attach. Stein, can you
sell the new Garmin type screws? I know you have long ones which are
already a huge help.
Another thing I think I've mentioned before-- we now run virtually all
serial wires into a single connector. All ins and outs populate a large
circular (63 pin?), then use the other half to jumper all the signals to
their desired mates. Put the airframe connector on a service loop that you
can reach, and then you can just pull the jumper side out to work on it on
the bench. It really comes in handy when making changes, updates,
troubleshooting, etc.
On Friday, April 19, 2013, wrote:
> Man can I relate as I am wiring my panel now. I did as many of the pins
> as I could on the bench. There is still a ton to do while in the plane
> doing the final connections. The pins bend easily,,,especially the high
> density pins Garmin love's to use. I've been triple checking each and
> every one as they go in: Good crimp, proper location, and then a gentle
> tug and push on the pin to make certain its engaged in the D-sub. Finally
> examine the filled D-sub looking for any pins that don't line up and
> straighten them out. I don't know at what stage of installing the avionic
> in the tray the pins engage but you probably would not really feel the
> resistance with an HD pin that did not engage properly as you seat the
> avionic in the tray with the Allen wrench. I did make all my wires long
> enough to be able to pull out of the front of the panel and I also
> interconnected my three avionics trays and it removes as a unit with 8
> screws if I need to access the tray connectors.
>
> David Clifford
>
> RV-10 Builder
> Howell, MI
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Mike Whisky" <rv-10@wellenzohn.net <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> 'rv-10@wellenzohn.net');>>
> *To: *rv10-list@matronics.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> 'rv10-list@matronics.com');>
> *Sent: *Friday, April 19, 2013 2:10:39 PM
> *Subject: *RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
>
> >
>
> I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason
> the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I removed
> the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't catch the
> right hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when testing the
> new anti collision device.
> Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel
> trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool, cutting
> the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin all in the
> most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope that I never
> have to go back there again.
>
> Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I don't
> recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than before,
> any ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (final assembly)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/========================**
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
I made my panel removable in one piece. Power goes through Molex
connectors and signal wires go through D connectors.
I replaced the rivet tab on the switch/breaker (lower panel) with an
angle and nutplate.
To remove the panel I remove all the screws and slide the right side aft
until it clears that channel and move the panel to the right so it
clears the left channel.
Lay the panel on the stringer below the channel and support the top of
the panel on a piecee of PVC pipe with the foam tube insulation on it.
I now have access to all the connections to the airframe .... including
the pitot/static lines. There are two power cables that need to be
removed .... power to the buss and the alternator breaker feed.
It really works well as I've had it in/out several times. Probably won't
need to pull the panel after the first flight though!!!
Linn
On 4/19/2013 7:01 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> Working on the back of the radios happens a lot more often than most
> builders realize. It really helps to have a plan while you're building
> that will provide access there. It helps to break up the panel into
> sections that can be removed to make a hole.
>
> Another thing that helps a lot is to use the long thumbscrews to
> attach the D-connectors to the cans. The screws that Garmin ships now
> have serrations for fingers and also hex drives for a socket, much
> better than short screws with plain slots that can literally take
> hours to attach. Stein, can you sell the new Garmin type screws? I
> know you have long ones which are already a huge help.
>
> Another thing I think I've mentioned before-- we now run virtually all
> serial wires into a single connector. All ins and outs populate a
> large circular (63 pin?), then use the other half to jumper all the
> signals to their desired mates. Put the airframe connector on a
> service loop that you can reach, and then you can just pull the jumper
> side out to work on it on the bench. It really comes in handy when
> making changes, updates, troubleshooting, etc.
>
>
> On Friday, April 19, 2013, wrote:
>
> Man can I relate as I am wiring my panel now. I did as many of
> the pins as I could on the bench. There is still a ton to do
> while in the plane doing the final connections. The pins bend
> easily,,,especially the high density pins Garmin love's to use.
> I've been triple checking each and every one as they go in: Good
> crimp, proper location, and then a gentle tug and push on the pin
> to make certain its engaged in the D-sub. Finally examine the
> filled D-sub looking for any pins that don't line up and
> straighten them out. I don't know at what stage of installing the
> avionic in the tray the pins engage but you probably would not
> really feel the resistance with an HD pin that did not engage
> properly as you seat the avionic in the tray with the Allen
> wrench. I did make all my wires long enough to be able to pull
> out of the front of the panel and I also interconnected my three
> avionics trays and it removes as a unit with 8 screws if I need to
> access the tray connectors.
>
> David Clifford
>
> RV-10 Builder
> Howell, MI
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Mike Whisky" <rv-10@wellenzohn.net <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', 'rv-10@wellenzohn.net');>>
> *To: *rv10-list@matronics.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> 'rv10-list@matronics.com');>
> *Sent: *Friday, April 19, 2013 2:10:39 PM
> *Subject: *RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
>
> <rv-10@wellenzohn.net <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> 'rv-10@wellenzohn.net');>>
>
> I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some
> reason the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the
> GNS430. I removed the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it
> obviously didn't catch the right hole when I installed the GNS430
> a couple days ago when testing the new anti collision device.
> Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the
> panel trying to remove the broken high density pin with the
> removal tool, cutting the pin off and removing the insulation and
> crimping a new pin all in the most awkward position for my arms
> and hands ever. I just hope that I never have to go back there again.
>
> Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again,
> I don't recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were
> higher than before, any ideas how to prevent something like this
> happening again?
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (final assembly)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/=======================
>
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Dave Saylor
> 831-750-0284 CL
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Avionic wiring nightmare |
I believe we can get those new Garmin type thumbscrews (probably the
nicest ones to work with that I=99ve seen), though I don=99t
know yet how or if they=99d work with other connectors.
I=99ll do some checking next week and report back. We do keep
normal thumbscrews in stock that work on the plain jane standard Dsbubs,
but they aren=99t as nice as the new Garmin ones.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
Working on the back of the radios happens a lot more often than most
builders realize. It really helps to have a plan while you're building
that will provide access there. It helps to break up the panel into
sections that can be removed to make a hole.
Another thing that helps a lot is to use the long thumbscrews to attach
the D-connectors to the cans. The screws that Garmin ships now have
serrations for fingers and also hex drives for a socket, much better
than short screws with plain slots that can literally take hours to
attach. Stein, can you sell the new Garmin type screws? I know you have
long ones which are already a huge help.
Another thing I think I've mentioned before-- we now run virtually all
serial wires into a single connector. All ins and outs populate a large
circular (63 pin?), then use the other half to jumper all the signals to
their desired mates. Put the airframe connector on a service loop that
you can reach, and then you can just pull the jumper side out to work on
it on the bench. It really comes in handy when making changes, updates,
troubleshooting, etc.
On Friday, April 19, 2013, wrote:
Man can I relate as I am wiring my panel now. I did as many of the pins
as I could on the bench. There is still a ton to do while in the plane
doing the final connections. The pins bend easily,,,especially the high
density pins Garmin love's to use. I've been triple checking each and
every one as they go in: Good crimp, proper location, and then a gentle
tug and push on the pin to make certain its engaged in the D-sub.
Finally examine the filled D-sub looking for any pins that don't line up
and straighten them out. I don't know at what stage of installing the
avionic in the tray the pins engage but you probably would not really
feel the resistance with an HD pin that did not engage properly as you
seat the avionic in the tray with the Allen wrench. I did make all my
wires long enough to be able to pull out of the front of the panel and I
also interconnected my three avionics trays and it removes as a unit
with 8 screws if I need to access the tray connectors.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
_____
From: "Mike Whisky" <rv-10@wellenzohn.net
<javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20'cvml',%20'rv-10@wellenzohn.net');> >
<javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20'cvml',%20'rv10-list@matronics.com');>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:10:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Avionic wiring nightmare
<javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20'cvml',%20'rv-10@wellenzohn.net');> >
I just went through the avionic wiring nightmare today, for some reason
the AF-4500 wasn't receiving any GPS ARINC data from the GNS430. I
removed the GNS430 to find one pin totally bent, it obviously didn't
catch the right hole when I installed the GNS430 a couple days ago when
testing the new anti collision device.
Long story short I spent almost three hours on my back behind the panel
trying to remove the broken high density pin with the removal tool,
cutting the pin off and removing the insulation and crimping a new pin
all in the most awkward position for my arms and hands ever. I just hope
that I never have to go back there again.
Anyway I am just worried that I could bend a pin like this again, I
don't recall when installing the GNS430 torque forces were higher than
before, any ideas how to prevent something like this happening again?
--------
RV-10 builder (final assembly)
#511
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Dave Saylor
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| Subject: | Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
One of the nice things about flat panel displays is the large hole they leave in
the panel when removed. When I need to work behind the panel the first thing
I do is cut the cable ties holding the service loops, pull one or both GRT EFIS
units out from the front and disconnect them. This leaves two large holes to
work thru while sitting upright.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398993#398993
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| Subject: | Re: Avionic wiring nightmare |
I considered that originally. I have dual MGL Odysseys and they're
interconnected in so many ways that it really wasn't feasible to try and
work through the holes. Being able to remove the panel allows me to put
it on the bench for modifications or power up testing. Leaving the
forward upper fuselage removable during the fuselage wiring stage made
things accessible as well. The last two pieces I plan on fastening down
are the forward upper fuselage and the cabin top to enable easy access
without having to hang by my knees. :-D
It's just disappointing to spend so much time on the fuselage wiring
without seeing any real physical progress towards completion. Another
bite out of that elephant though.
Linn
On 4/19/2013 11:18 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> One of the nice things about flat panel displays is the large hole they leave
in the panel when removed. When I need to work behind the panel the first thing
I do is cut the cable ties holding the service loops, pull one or both GRT
EFIS units out from the front and disconnect them. This leaves two large holes
to work thru while sitting upright.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398993#398993
>
>
> -----
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>
>
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