Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:30 AM - Re: 33 hours with a 1-year-old (Bill Watson)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: G3x Autopilot & Accessories (Carl Froehlich)
3. 05:50 AM - Re: G3x Autopilot & Accessories (JimVillani)
4. 06:05 AM - Re: Things needed for the build (RichGurr)
5. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Things needed for the build (Kelly McMullen)
6. 06:47 AM - Re: Things needed for the build (tsts4)
7. 07:08 AM - Re: NAS517-5-9 Countersink Still Making The Rounds? (Sean Stephens)
8. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Things needed for the build (Bill Watson)
9. 12:44 PM - Re: Things needed for the build (RichGurr)
10. 01:44 PM - Re: Things needed for the build (Bob Turner)
11. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: 2013 RV-10 Airventure Group Camping (John Cox)
12. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: 2013 RV-10 Airventure Group Camping (Bob Condrey)
13. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: Things needed for the build (Kelly McMullen)
14. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: 2013 RV-10 Airventure Group Camping (Bob Condrey)
15. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: Things needed for the build (Bill Watson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 33 hours with a 1-year-old |
Yes, a great trip report!
We've never had any young'uns in our lives but definitely get it. Our
big trip thus far was about the same dimensions going the other
direction - NC to Phoenix and back. The '10 made it comfortable and
enjoyable.
Long live the full-service FBOs! We shop for gas and land in some god
forsaken places chasing it sometimes, but we also chase well located
airports with nice FBOs. Paying a few bucks for good and desired
services seems like fair trade. Getting (low price) hotel reservations,
ice cream sandwiches, nice bathrooms and car service is sometimes the
difference between a good and less than good trip. Being met by a
couple of line people, with your car, cold water, and help off loading
your bags is nice after a long bumpy descent over the desert is sweet.
Of course, $5 gas is sweet too but sometimes you have to choose.
We too end up packing stuff in a lot of little bags. But the
convenience of having everything you need and want, handy, is a
privilege of private plane travel. Sometimes we feel like a traveling
circus troop when we check in. Looking over at some minimally packed
travelers in the lobby and realizing they probably don't have an iced
bottle of bubbly, slippers and their favorite pillow along for the stay,
we don't mind herding all those little bags around so much. No invasive
security on the private side of aviation!
Bill "and Alicia" Watson "and Ortiz"
On 7/2/2013 7:09 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Rob, Great write-up. It really is fun traveling with kids.
> Some things get easier, and some get harder, as they grow,
> but it's always fun to have them along.
>
> I agree fully about the full-service FBO's....whenever I'm
> going to get stuck or want to have a super simple stay over,
> I go for a nice FBO. Then you let them do the work of arranging
> the car, hotel, pointing you to food, and it makes it so easy.
> Yeah, you throw away $20, or $50, or even sometimes more, but
> the service they provide is really nice. I keep track of those
> nice stops in the bigger cities, and it's comforting to know you
> can almost always count on them being open.
>
> Have fun with your travels!
> Tim
> do not archive
>
> On 7/2/2013 2:54 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
>> (I also posted this on VAF)
>>
>> A few weeks ago we completed a 2-week trip in our RV-10, covering 5000+
>> miles in 33 hours with our 1-year-old boy. I thought we were a little
>> crazy to try it, but it worked out really well. I did a write-up on our
>> site:
>> http://kochman.net/N819K/?p=1437
>>
>> As always, I have to thank my wife for suggesting the RV-10 instead of
>> the -7. What an amazing family cross-country machine.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> --
>> Rob Kochman
>> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
>> Woodinville, WA
>> http://kochman.net/N819K
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | G3x Autopilot & Accessories |
Considering they are matching Dynon on autopilot pricing, I'm thrilled that
Garmin is finally feeling some competition pressure.
Considering the grossly overpriced GTN-650 I put in my RV-10 (and horrible
Garmin after the sale service), perhaps we will soon have more value based
options for the rest of our avionics. I predict Dynon will again lead the
way.
Carl
RV-10 (105 hours)
RV-8A (sold - but it went to a good home)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: G3x Autopilot & Accessories
Not sure everyone has seen the new Garmin G3x AP & servos but it looks like
they are kicking it into high gear with full G3x accessories. The AP is only
$750! Servos are also $750 ea.
Garmin is also offering a AOA Pitot & Heated AOA Pitot for $199 & $299 with
a regulated AOA Pitot coming. They also have a new back up ADAHRS.
Products
http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/sport-aviation/prices
Here are some videos
http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/sport-aviation/media/
https://static.garmincdn.com/en/m/g/custom-pages/in-the-air/sport-aviation/s
f/gmc305.jpg
https://static.garmincdn.com/en/m/g/custom-pages/in-the-air/sport-aviation/s
f/gap26.jpg
https://static.garmincdn.com/en/m/g/custom-pages/in-the-air/sport-aviation/s
f/gsa28.jpg
https://static.garmincdn.com/en/m/g/custom-pages/in-the-air/sport-aviation/s
f/gsu25.jpg
Robin
Message 3
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| Subject: | G3x Autopilot & Accessories |
Ok.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@Ok...matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Froehlich
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: G3x Autopilot & Accessories
Considering they are matching Dynon on autopilot pricing, I'm thrilled that
Garmin is finally feeling some competition pressure.
Considering the grossly overpriced GTN-650 I put in my RV-10 (and horrible
Garmin after the sale service), perhaps we will soon have more value based
options for the rest of our avionics. I predict Dynon will again lead the
way.
Carl
RV-10 (105 hours)
RV-8A (sold - but it went to a good home)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:56 PM
rv-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: G3x Autopilot & Accessories
Not sure everyone has seen the new Garmin G3x AP & servos but it looks like
they are kicking it into high gear with full G3x accessories. The AP is only
$750! Servos are also $750 ea.
Garmin is also offering a AOA Pitot & Heated AOA Pitot for $199 & $299 with
a regulated AOA Pitot coming. They also have a new back up ADAHRS.
Products
http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/sport-aviation/prices
Here are some videos
http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/sport-aviation/media/
Robin
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Things needed for the build |
Thanks for the help. I have compiled a list. As far as the drills, what RPMs are
preferred for the build. Is slower ie 2000 or higher ie 3600 a better choice.
Do you see much difference between the Harbor Freight drills compared to the
ones at Cleaveland, or other suppliers. How many cleco do I need, approximately,
do I need foe the job.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403856#403856
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Things needed for the build |
For aluminum the higher speed is better. For steel and stainless, slower
is better. I now think 2 different drills are better than just one.
Harbor freight drill bits are good for occasional use. Aircraft drill
bits from the good suppliers last much longer.
I lost count on clecos.
On 7/3/2013 6:05 AM, RichGurr wrote:
>
> Thanks for the help. I have compiled a list. As far as the drills, what RPMs
are preferred for the build. Is slower ie 2000 or higher ie 3600 a better choice.
Do you see much difference between the Harbor Freight drills compared to
the ones at Cleaveland, or other suppliers. How many cleco do I need, approximately,
do I need foe the job.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403856#403856
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Things needed for the build |
IMO drill speed really didnt make a difference. I did my tailcone and wings with
a pneumatic, but most of the fuse was done with a combination of corded and
cordless electric drills. Where the pneumatics shine is in size and weight as
their compact size lets you get into tighter places and the lighter weight is
less fatiguing. Cant speak to Harbor Freight vs. any of the major suppliers
for drills, but I tend to steer clear of Harbor Freight for anything other than
items I consider to be expendable/throw-away stuff. IOW I tend to spend more
in order to get quality tools As for Clecos, most the kits come with around
375Id go up to at least 500. However, truth in lending, Im anal about clecoing
things together. I tend to cleco a lot of holes when I drill or rivet as
I want things nice and tight. Probably overkill but it gave me piece of mind.
--------
Todd Stovall
aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, Purple Pilots, VAF, and RVairspace
RV-10 N728TT
Empacone, Wings, Fuse, Finishing
www.mykitlog.com/auburntsts
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403860#403860
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: NAS517-5-9 Countersink Still Making The Rounds? |
I was able to acquire one in the meantime. Thanks for the reply.
-Sean #40303
On 7/2/13 5:16 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>
> Hey Sean,
>
> The traveling countersink is back home with me. I was waiting to see
> if anyone else was ready for it, and forgot to check with you ... if
> you still need it, get me your address and I'll get it out to you.
> Later, - Lew
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Sean Stephens
> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 2:09 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: NAS517-5-9 Countersink Still Making The Rounds?
>
>
> Is the cabin top seat belt NAS517-5-9 countersink still making the
> rounds? If so, can I be put on the list?
>
> -Sean #40303 (sand, fill, rinse, repeat...)
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Things needed for the build |
If you have a chance, try to use some of these tools before selecting
and buying. Oshkosh may give you an opportunity to do that.
I started my build with a no longer offered 5 day "build the tail kit"
class where I had the chance to try a variety of tools - e.g. 4
different manual rivet squeezers, power squeezers, countersinks, etc. I
had no idea there was so much variation even between quality tools. I
came away with a distinct preference for a brand of manual squeezers
(and a classmate had a distinctly different preference). I'm not sure
that pneumatic cleco guns are all that popular.... I used one that
convinced me I didn't want one, I used a second and it became a good friend.
There are not a lot of opportunities to try before you buy and my guess
is that most of us don't get the chance. No worries since whatever you
end up with is likely to become 'the best tool for the job' no matter what.
As others have said, definitely get a power squeezer, a DRT2 (sic), and
at least one good pneumatic drill with a hand twist chuck. Whether you
use an electric drill or not, get a lightweight electric driver.
General purpose tools include a good drill press, floor standing if you
can, and a good band saw. You also need a bench grinder with 1 or 2
Scotchbrite wheels on it for deburring. This should be mounted on a
pedestal rather than a bench for easy handling of the aluminum. A good
heavy vice is more than handy throughout the build.
I bought a lot of HF stuff and still do but good is not equal to HF.
Single use and disposable = HF but that can definitely have a place in
your project (see fiberglass work).
Bill "missing the build just a little but I'm done" Watson
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Things needed for the build |
I agree about the Harbor Freight tools, usual I buy for a one time project. I
can shop prices before Osh now to check for the best deals.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403885#403885
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Things needed for the build |
No one mentioned the obvious - you need an air compressor. 'Oil free' are useful
if you are going to use it for painting, but they're also much louder than oil
lubricated ones. Look at the cubic ft per minute numbers. Some of the smaller
ones cannot keep up if you're doing a lot of drilling, and definitely can't
keep up with spray painting.
Shop supplies: boelube or cutting oil for drilling hard metals, lube oil for air
tools, thread sealant for pipe threads, scotch brite pads, felt tip pens, etc.
Center punch for starting the process of removing rivets, 1/8 and 3/32 pin punches
for the same reason!
I found a scotch bright grinding wheel much more useful than I ever thought.
Also, stuff gets lost. Almost everyone ends up buying an assortment of rivets,
bolts, nuts, etc. And get some "opps" rivets from Vans.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403887#403887
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 2013 RV-10 Airventure Group Camping |
Coming in from MKE with a Ford EDGE SUV. How can I help.
John Cox
On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:54 PM, eison <eison1969@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am in the final planning stages for Osh. I am camping with the group
> and having an RV dropped off on Friday. I am planning on flying in
> Saturday late morning.
>
> I have one open item, I have rented from United Rentals/RSC in Oshkosh a
> generator in order to have a nice cool place to hang out in the middle of
> the day. However, the RV place isn't allowed to pick up generators, and
> united Rentals wants more to pick up and drop off than the cost of the
> rental. Additionally, they aren't open on the weekends.....
>
> Is anyone driving in on Friday the 26th that wouldn't mind grabbing a
> generator for me? Failing that, Monday?
>
> If all else fails, we can go powerless or pay the extra fee. Keeping the
> wife and kid happy is important right????
>
> You can email me at Eison1969 at yahoo dot com
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Eric Ison
>
> --------
> Eric Ison
> RV 10 #40764
> N984ED (reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403828#403828
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 2013 RV-10 Airventure Group Camping |
I got him covered John, but stop by anyway! The beer is on me this time.
Bob
On Wednesday, July 3, 2013, John Cox wrote:
> Coming in from MKE with a Ford EDGE SUV. How can I help.
>
> John Cox
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:54 PM, eison <eison1969@yahoo.com<javascript:_e({},
'cvml', 'eison1969@yahoo.com');>
> > wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> I am in the final planning stages for Osh. I am camping with the group
>> and having an RV dropped off on Friday. I am planning on flying in
>> Saturday late morning.
>>
>> I have one open item, I have rented from United Rentals/RSC in Oshkosh a
>> generator in order to have a nice cool place to hang out in the middle of
>> the day. However, the RV place isn't allowed to pick up generators, and
>> united Rentals wants more to pick up and drop off than the cost of the
>> rental. Additionally, they aren't open on the weekends.....
>>
>> Is anyone driving in on Friday the 26th that wouldn't mind grabbing a
>> generator for me? Failing that, Monday?
>>
>> If all else fails, we can go powerless or pay the extra fee. Keeping the
>> wife and kid happy is important right????
>>
>> You can email me at Eison1969 at yahoo dot com
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Eric Ison
>>
>> --------
>> Eric Ison
>> RV 10 #40764
>> N984ED (reserved)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403828#403828
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Things needed for the build |
The "oops" rivet selection from Avery worked better for me, because I
used the NAS1097-3 size to install nutplates by countersinking for that
tiny head instead of dimpling. Makes a much nicer install. The liquid
Boelube is excellent for drilling stainless steel, like firewall. It
also is great for first time install of screw/bolt into a new nutplate.
Oil lube compressor IMHO is far better than oiless, because you do so
much work needing compressed air, and unless compressor is in another
room/noise cabinet the oiless noise will drive you crazy. I got 30 gal
Husky. I think Lowes may have a bit nicer 30 gal now. Some of the kits
come with Scotchbrite wheel. Builder's hardware kit for those extra
bolts and screws you always need will save time.
On 7/3/2013 1:43 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> No one mentioned the obvious - you need an air compressor. 'Oil free' are useful
if you are going to use it for painting, but they're also much louder than
oil lubricated ones. Look at the cubic ft per minute numbers. Some of the smaller
ones cannot keep up if you're doing a lot of drilling, and definitely can't
keep up with spray painting.
>
> Shop supplies: boelube or cutting oil for drilling hard metals, lube oil for
air tools, thread sealant for pipe threads, scotch brite pads, felt tip pens,
etc.
>
> Center punch for starting the process of removing rivets, 1/8 and 3/32 pin punches
for the same reason!
>
> I found a scotch bright grinding wheel much more useful than I ever thought.
>
> Also, stuff gets lost. Almost everyone ends up buying an assortment of rivets,
bolts, nuts, etc. And get some "opps" rivets from Vans.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403887#403887
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 2013 RV-10 Airventure Group Camping |
I got him covered John, but stop by anyway! The beer is on me this time.
Bob
On Wednesday, July 3, 2013, John Cox wrote:
> Coming in from MKE with a Ford EDGE SUV. How can I help.
>
> John Cox
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:54 PM, eison <eison1969@yahoo.com<javascript:_e({},
'cvml', 'eison1969@yahoo.com');>
> > wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> I am in the final planning stages for Osh. I am camping with the group
>> and having an RV dropped off on Friday. I am planning on flying in
>> Saturday late morning.
>>
>> I have one open item, I have rented from United Rentals/RSC in Oshkosh a
>> generator in order to have a nice cool place to hang out in the middle of
>> the day. However, the RV place isn't allowed to pick up generators, and
>> united Rentals wants more to pick up and drop off than the cost of the
>> rental. Additionally, they aren't open on the weekends.....
>>
>> Is anyone driving in on Friday the 26th that wouldn't mind grabbing a
>> generator for me? Failing that, Monday?
>>
>> If all else fails, we can go powerless or pay the extra fee. Keeping the
>> wife and kid happy is important right????
>>
>> You can email me at Eison1969 at yahoo dot com
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Eric Ison
>>
>> --------
>> Eric Ison
>> RV 10 #40764
>> N984ED (reserved)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403828#403828
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Things needed for the build |
>
> No one mentioned the obvious - you need an air compressor. 'Oil free' are useful
if you are going to use it for painting, but they're also much louder than
oil lubricated ones. Look at the cubic ft per minute numbers. Some of the smaller
ones cannot keep up if you're doing a lot of drilling, and definitely can't
keep up with spray painting.
Yes, I got a pretty large one from Home Depot/Lowes. My sense is that
oil free is for casual use - building the '10 is not casual - but I
don't really know. The one thing I was absolutely not going to do was
paint... but I ended up painting. Instead of creating a clean, dry air
supply, I went with a turbine HVLP system. But I digress, that's all
waaaay down the line so don't get hung up on finishing at the start,
just get what you need for a lot of aluminum work.
>
> Center punch for starting the process of removing rivets, 1/8 and 3/32 pin punches
for the same reason!
I never used a center punch for rivet removal! I should have. I just
relied on the little hole on the top of each rivet to guide the drill.
It worked, usually.
>
> I found a scotch bright grinding wheel much more useful than I ever thought.
Had never heard of them before but at class, I learned to deburr every
single piece of aluminum as the first step in any assembly. Do the plans
tell you to do that? Don't know, but relative to all the anal
activities you can get involved with, deburring seems to be a big one
to me.... priming, not so much (helmet on).
>
> Also, stuff gets lost. Almost everyone ends up buying an assortment of rivets,
bolts, nuts, etc. And get some "opps" rivets from Vans.
>
Speaking of anal... if you really get into using the right rivet to get
the right sized head in every instance, you quickly discover that Vans
supplies a limited range of sizes but doesn't include half sizes or
enough of certain sizes. My build-the-tail class instructor loved
watching us struggle with a particular rivet, then pulling out a bottle
of half size rivets to try. He knew every single mismatch. But of
course, Vans knows what really matters. None of those half size rivets
were really needed because every single rivet didn't need to be perfect.
Bill "Sorry for getting lost in the weeds here" Watson
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