Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:29 AM - Re: Engine Settling Measurement (Michael Kraus)
2. 05:33 AM - Re: Longer engine cables - throttle cable and mixture cable (jkreidler)
3. 06:00 AM - Re: Longer engine cables - throttle cable and mixture cable (Tim Olson)
4. 08:34 AM - Re: Longer engine cables - throttle cable and mixture cable (AirMike)
5. 08:43 AM - Paint (jkreidler)
6. 09:03 AM - Re: Paint (Deems Davis)
7. 10:12 AM - Re: Paint (Bob Turner)
8. 10:22 AM - Re: Paint (Linn Walters)
9. 10:47 AM - Re: Paint (Carl Froehlich)
10. 11:22 AM - Re: Paint ()
11. 11:41 AM - Re: Paint (Tim Olson)
12. 12:22 PM - Re: Paint (Carl Froehlich)
13. 12:25 PM - Re: Paint (jkreidler)
14. 12:39 PM - Re: Paint (Robin Marks)
15. 01:00 PM - Re: Paint (checkers) (Robin Marks)
16. 01:23 PM - Re: Paint (William Greenley)
17. 01:38 PM - Re: Paint (checkers) (Linn Walters)
18. 02:04 PM - Re: Paint and malaria:) (PlaneAround,LLC)
19. 03:18 PM - Re: Paint (Michael Orth)
20. 03:34 PM - Re: Paint (Bill Watson)
21. 03:44 PM - Re: Paint (jkreidler)
22. 03:46 PM - Re: Paint (Robin Marks)
23. 03:48 PM - Re: Paint (jkreidler)
24. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Paint (Linn Walters)
25. 08:09 PM - Re: Longer engine cables - throttle cable and mixture cable (rv10flyer)
26. 08:19 PM - Re: Engine Settling Measurement (rv10flyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Settling Measurement |
My -4 settled a lot (~1/4") but my -10 did not settle any appreciable amount.
I'd leave as large of a gap behind the spinner that you are comfortable with for
the reasons you gave. I didn't build a race plane, I was more of "I don't want
to scratch the paint and I want to be able to cowl it myself."
YMMV
-Mike Kraus
RV-10 flying 150 hours
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 25, 2013, at 11:21 PM, Karol Hansen <karolamy@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>
>> From you guys with Van's engine and cowl, and that have at least 50 plus hours
of flying on your 10, how much did the engine settle relative to the fixed
position of the cowl? My 6 settled about 3/32 and that was about what I planned
for - lucky!
>
> Also were you successful with only 1/8th inch gap between spinner bulkhead and
forward cowl as per plans, or do you wish you had increased this gap just a
bit to facilitate cowl removal?
>
> I'm certain I'll get quite a variety of opinions, but that's ok, please just
let em rip!!!
>
> Thanks Much,
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Longer engine cables - throttle cable and mixture cable |
We used the throttle cable for the RV-7 which is 3" longer than the one supplied
for the -10. The mixture cable as supplied worked fine for us (standard panel
with push pull). - Jason
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407486#407486
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Longer engine cables - throttle cable and mixture cable |
For me, the standard cables supplied with the quadrant, with a standard
panel, worked
great. I used them for maybe 900 hours, and replaced the original green
ones
with black from Cablecraft for the higher temp rating, and also heat
shielded them
better at the time. I believe heat shielding is something that all
builders should
incorporate into their build, for cable longevity, as the cables all
route close enough
to the heat muffs that it may provide benefit. I won't know for another
1000 hours
or so, but I do expect these to last much longer.
When I re-ordered cables, the originals had fit perfectly. The
replacement cables
I ordered to the same lengths and they also fit. I don't know if they
would have
fit nearly as good if they were even 1/2 to 1" longer and they definitely
wouldn't have worked if they were shorter.
Make sure when you poll and watch the forums that you pay close attention
to the panel and actuator type that people give. Any change in panel
can lead to a change in cable length, and push-pull vs quadrant is
significant.
On a side note, I've seen it referenced many times that quadrant style is
the only type that they will allow in formation flying clinics...that's
for those
building who may wonder why one or the other would be better for them.
Tim
On 8/25/2013 6:22 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> I sent this note to Van's a year and a half ago. The response back
> was 'many people are using the recommended cable'. The 50.5" cable
> from Van's worked just fine (standard Van's engine and push/pull
> controls).
>
> Carl
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Longer engine cables - throttle cable and mixture cable |
Replaced my Vans cable at about 150 hrs. It developed a wear spot in the plastic
shield material. I tried fixing it with tank sealant. That also wore thru. Probably
best to start out with the proper cable. Vans is tooooo short!
--------
See you OSH '13
Q/B - flying 3 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407505#407505
Message 5
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We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin. Any
strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat /
clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation finishes.
Jason
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
Message 6
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Jason,
It is really a matter or opinion. The 2 finishes are different in
appearance, To some people the difference matters and to some it doesn't.
So the 1st question is to figure out if the difference matter. I don't
believe that there are any differences in how well one protects vs the
other. aA lot of that has to do with the painter and the prep. I believe
that a base/clear is going to cost more than a single stage for obvious
reasons (more labor). The next item would be to find your painter, some
painters will only work with single stage paint.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:43 AM, jkreidler
<jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>wrote:
> jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>
> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in
> Wisconsin. Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat
> versus a base coat / clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation
> finishes.
>
> Jason
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>
>
Message 7
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It sounds like you have selected your painter. As Deems said, ask him. He's the
one who will have to stand by his work.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407512#407512
Message 8
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I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road with
clear coat problems. Done by professional robots. ;-)
However using clear coat does make spot repairs easier and hides base
coat imperfections. I'm no expert painter (nor do I play one on TV) but
I doubt there's much difference between 'aviation' and 'automotive'
finishes in this day and age. I do know the present day Imron (used to
be my favorite) is formulated differently than the old stuff .... thanks
to the EPA ...... and scratches easier.
Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to choose
from with automotive paint. I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!
Linn
On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
>
> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.
Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat
/ clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation finishes.
>
> Jason
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 9
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The main issue is the thickness of your wallet.
For multiple colors and complex design, a couple of coats of clear over
everything is the way to go. For a good paint job that won't break the bank
and is easy to fix, single coat. On the RV-10 I did three color PPG base
and clear and I worked my ass off. Then a neighbor did one color single
stage PPG on a Lancair 4 and added vinyl stripes and N numbers. His plane
was a third the work of the RV-10, looks show plane good and you can't tell
the stripes are vinyl even an inch away.
Get some quotes from your painter - and if you want any checkers be ready
for a real big number.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jkreidler
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Paint
--> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.
Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat
/ clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation finishes.
Jason
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
Message 10
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Hey Jason/Linn,
I paint, not an expert. Base/clear is very slick and provides great
protection, but is more expensive, heavier, AND harder to touch up, not
easier. If you get a chip in base/clear that goes through color, you have
to match/touch up the base color first, then put the clear back on, then if
you want it perfect you have to fine sand the clear flat to match and then
buff. Single coat, just dab the chip and go -- buff if it needs it.
I have doubts about those who paint multiple colors then clear it all. As I
understand it, the early cars with base/clear peeled because the clear
wasn't applied soon enough after the base was shot. Now it is recommended
to clear within 30-40 minutes after base so that it bonds. Otherwise the
base color is to be scuffed before clearing -- I've never done that. You
see the problem if you have multiple colors. If multiple colors are shot at
different times, then cleared days/weeks later -- you could probably get
away with it if your plane is constantly hangared (the cars that peel don't
spend most of their lives in a garage -- notice it is the horizontal
surfaces that peel), but then the single stage paint with "wet look"
hardener would look just as good and last just as long.
Later, - Lew
Message 11
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The guy who helped me paint my plane, has a son who was with DuPont
at the time. He said that Imron actually doesn't seem to fill the gaps
around
the rivet head to skin seam and flow in there as well as some other paints.
Tim
do not archive
On 8/26/2013 12:21 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road
> with clear coat problems. Done by professional robots. ;-)
> However using clear coat does make spot repairs easier and hides base
> coat imperfections. I'm no expert painter (nor do I play one on TV)
> but I doubt there's much difference between 'aviation' and
> 'automotive' finishes in this day and age. I do know the present day
> Imron (used to be my favorite) is formulated differently than the old
> stuff .... thanks to the EPA ...... and scratches easier.
> Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to
> choose from with automotive paint. I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!
> Linn
>
> On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
>> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>>
>> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in
>> Wisconsin. Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat
>> versus a base coat / clear coat system? In both cases we will use
>> aviation finishes.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> --------
>> Jason Kreidler
>> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
>> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
>> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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Lew is correct on minding times. With PPG you have 24 hours from base to
clear coat (tech sheet attached as example). On my plane I did paint with
wings off, control surfaces and tail feathers removed. This piecemeal
approach enabled me to manage times so I could always get the clear coat on
in the allotted time. Simple jigs to hold the wings so they can be rotated
for paint greatly simplified the work.
I also agree with Lew on the merits of single coat.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
lewgall@charter.net
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
Hey Jason/Linn,
I paint, not an expert. Base/clear is very slick and provides great
protection, but is more expensive, heavier, AND harder to touch up, not
easier. If you get a chip in base/clear that goes through color, you have
to match/touch up the base color first, then put the clear back on, then if
you want it perfect you have to fine sand the clear flat to match and then
buff. Single coat, just dab the chip and go -- buff if it needs it.
I have doubts about those who paint multiple colors then clear it all. As I
understand it, the early cars with base/clear peeled because the clear
wasn't applied soon enough after the base was shot. Now it is recommended
to clear within 30-40 minutes after base so that it bonds. Otherwise the
base color is to be scuffed before clearing -- I've never done that. You
see the problem if you have multiple colors. If multiple colors are shot at
different times, then cleared days/weeks later -- you could probably get
away with it if your plane is constantly hangared (the cars that peel don't
spend most of their lives in a garage -- notice it is the horizontal
surfaces that peel), but then the single stage paint with "wet look"
hardener would look just as good and last just as long.
Later, - Lew
Message 13
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|
I wonder if that is why Imron comes in a formula made for riveted airplanes (AF400),
they also have a version (AF3500) which they claim is more Skydrol resistant.
I am not sure how long the AF400 formula has been around, maybe in response
to your comment. Both single stage top coats - sometimes I enjoy speculating....
Our painter is an Imron guy who prefers single stage, but will do clear coats for
the money. His feedback mirrors some of what has been said here.
- Jason
[quote="Tim Olson"]The guy who helped me paint my plane, has a son who was with
DuPont
at the time. He said that Imron actually doesn't seem to fill the gaps
around
the rivet head to skin seam and flow in there as well as some other paints.
Tim
do not archive
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407529#407529
Message 14
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We can all knock the EPA if we want but those are the same people that got rid
of DDT, Benzene Hexachloride & Ethyl Mercury Chloride etc.... What pricks, now
our kids are born with both their arms & legs. But don't worry industry still
has power to grow our strawberries in Ethylene Dibromide. I mean how bad can
something like that be for the environment? As much as I prefer high VOC paints
and the smell of fresh mimeograph paper I also like drinking water that you
can actually drink.
Robin :-)
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road with clear coat
problems. Done by professional robots. ;-) However using clear coat does
make spot repairs easier and hides base coat imperfections. I'm no expert painter
(nor do I play one on TV) but I doubt there's much difference between 'aviation'
and 'automotive'
finishes in this day and age. I do know the present day Imron (used to be my favorite)
is formulated differently than the old stuff .... thanks to the EPA ......
and scratches easier.
Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to choose from with
automotive paint. I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!
Linn
On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
> --> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>
> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.
Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat
/ clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation finishes.
>
> Jason
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying -
> #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Paint (checkers) |
Regarding Checkers there is a relatively fast and less expensive way to get
painted checkers on your plane. It's the cheating car racers system for ch
eckered patterns. They take the base painted part and apply the thinnest pa
int tape available and grid out the desired section. Then they cover altern
ate boxes with tape and just paint, dry & peal. The difference is the top c
oat color checkers do not actually touch corner to corner. If you don't poi
nt it out no one will ever notice. I had to have it pointed out to me by th
e builder/painter (who was also a NASCAR mechanic) of my RV-4. All that bei
ng said Checkers are not nearly as common on -10 as the rest of the fleet.
Here is a photo & link:
Robin
[http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-4/RV-4%2084RM%20Photos/Fuse/RV84
RM-Fuse_%20(6).jpg]
[http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-4/RV-4%2084RM%20Photos/Fuse/RV84
RM-Fuse_%20(19).jpg]
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-4/exterior.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
--> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
The main issue is the thickness of your wallet.
For multiple colors and complex design, a couple of coats of clear over eve
rything is the way to go. For a good paint job that won't break the bank a
nd is easy to fix, single coat. On the RV-10 I did three color PPG base an
d clear and I worked my ass off. Then a neighbor did one color single stag
e PPG on a Lancair 4 and added vinyl stripes and N numbers. His plane was
a third the work of the RV-10, looks show plane good and you can't tell the
stripes are vinyl even an inch away.
Get some quotes from your painter - and if you want any checkers be ready f
or a real big number.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jkreidler
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Paint
--> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin
.
Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coa
t / clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation finishes.
Jason
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
Message 16
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Sorry, I know this is off topic. But getting rid of DDT killed a million
people a year. I worked in Africa and malaria was almost history, it came
roaring back with tragic consequences I saw in my hospital on a daily basis.
If used properly it was safe and inexpensive, the first world could afford
more expensive alternatives, but the third world could not. I agree that DDT
was dangerous to the environment if misused, but that is true of many
products.
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
We can all knock the EPA if we want but those are the same people that got
rid of DDT, Benzene Hexachloride & Ethyl Mercury Chloride etc.... What
pricks, now our kids are born with both their arms & legs. But don't worry
industry still has power to grow our strawberries in Ethylene Dibromide. I
mean how bad can something like that be for the environment? As much as I
prefer high VOC paints and the smell of fresh mimeograph paper I also like
drinking water that you can actually drink.
Robin :-)
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road with
clear coat problems. Done by professional robots. ;-) However using clear
coat does make spot repairs easier and hides base coat imperfections. I'm
no expert painter (nor do I play one on TV) but I doubt there's much
difference between 'aviation' and 'automotive'
finishes in this day and age. I do know the present day Imron (used to be
my favorite) is formulated differently than the old stuff .... thanks to the
EPA ...... and scratches easier.
Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to choose
from with automotive paint. I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!
Linn
On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
> --> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>
> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in
Wisconsin. Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus
a base coat / clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation
finishes.
>
> Jason
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying -
> #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Paint (checkers) |
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Paint and malaria:) |
Speaking of malaria, I noticed we've come up with a vaccination the Navy has been
trying with 100% success.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 26, 2013, at 13:22, "William Greenley" <wgreenley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I know this is off topic. But getting rid of DDT killed a million
> people a year. I worked in Africa and malaria was almost history, it came
> roaring back with tragic consequences I saw in my hospital on a daily basis.
> If used properly it was safe and inexpensive, the first world could afford
> more expensive alternatives, but the third world could not. I agree that DDT
> was dangerous to the environment if misused, but that is true of many
> products.
>
> Bill Greenley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:39 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
>
>
> We can all knock the EPA if we want but those are the same people that got
> rid of DDT, Benzene Hexachloride & Ethyl Mercury Chloride etc.... What
> pricks, now our kids are born with both their arms & legs. But don't worry
> industry still has power to grow our strawberries in Ethylene Dibromide. I
> mean how bad can something like that be for the environment? As much as I
> prefer high VOC paints and the smell of fresh mimeograph paper I also like
> drinking water that you can actually drink.
>
> Robin :-)
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:22 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
>
>
> I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road with
> clear coat problems. Done by professional robots. ;-) However using clear
> coat does make spot repairs easier and hides base coat imperfections. I'm
> no expert painter (nor do I play one on TV) but I doubt there's much
> difference between 'aviation' and 'automotive'
> finishes in this day and age. I do know the present day Imron (used to be
> my favorite) is formulated differently than the old stuff .... thanks to the
> EPA ...... and scratches easier.
> Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to choose
> from with automotive paint. I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!
> Linn
>
> On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
>> --> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>>
>> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in
> Wisconsin. Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus
> a base coat / clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation
> finishes.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> --------
>> Jason Kreidler
>> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
>> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying -
>> #40617
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Hear! Hear!
Many Greenies are extremely under-educated.
Thanks for the truth.
One amplification, though.
Not only has the lack of DDT resulted in the deaths of millions in the past,
the deaths continue today.
This is why the mosquito is often referred to as "the deadliest animal on
earth".
Michael
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: William Greenley
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
Sorry, I know this is off topic. But getting rid of DDT killed a million
people a year. I worked in Africa and malaria was almost history, it came
roaring back with tragic consequences I saw in my hospital on a daily basis.
If used properly it was safe and inexpensive, the first world could afford
more expensive alternatives, but the third world could not. I agree that DDT
was dangerous to the environment if misused, but that is true of many
products.
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
We can all knock the EPA if we want but those are the same people that got
rid of DDT, Benzene Hexachloride & Ethyl Mercury Chloride etc.... What
pricks, now our kids are born with both their arms & legs. But don't worry
industry still has power to grow our strawberries in Ethylene Dibromide. I
mean how bad can something like that be for the environment? As much as I
prefer high VOC paints and the smell of fresh mimeograph paper I also like
drinking water that you can actually drink.
Robin :-)
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road with
clear coat problems. Done by professional robots. ;-) However using clear
coat does make spot repairs easier and hides base coat imperfections. I'm
no expert painter (nor do I play one on TV) but I doubt there's much
difference between 'aviation' and 'automotive'
finishes in this day and age. I do know the present day Imron (used to be
my favorite) is formulated differently than the old stuff .... thanks to the
EPA ...... and scratches easier.
Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to choose
from with automotive paint. I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!
Linn
On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
> --> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>
> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in
Wisconsin. Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus
a base coat / clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation
finishes.
>
> Jason
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying -
> #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 20
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I did my own paint and used a single stage Imron against the advice of a
few local, non aircraft paint shops. I think I made the right decision.
For the DIY painter, single stage is less work. But fixing mistakes can
be harder. The paint pros explained that you can just sand out 2 stage
mistakes and cover everything with clear coat for the A1 final finish.
I see how 2 stage is required for a show winning finish but the single
stage stuff is really nice. Get a nice flake color for your '10 in
single stage and I think you'll be very happy. If your shop recommends
it, then I know you'll be happy if they are any good at all.
My advice for the DIY painter is to find a local paint distributor you
want to work with and shoot one of the brands and lines that he
carries. I started with the idea of using aviation lines from Dupont or
PPG, but I ended up with a non-aviation line of Imron single stage
because the distributor was closer to me than the PPG shop. And only a
few places deal in the aviation lines. That turned out to be an inspired
decision. I made almost daily trips there during my paint process -
prices were good and while the advice was limited it was valuable for
this first time painter.
My guess is that that advice can be applied to paint selection by a
paint shop - use what they like to use. I think skills are surprisingly
product specific. Paints/coatings is very high tech stuff. Experience
and manufacturers technical support are invaluable.
Re regulations and their impact on paint; seems like almost everyone I
met at the local paint depot, who had been shooting polyurethanes over
the last decade was impaired. The guy who ran the place admitted that
he was impaired, not that it wasn't apparent. His paint booth had sat
idle for many years as a result. Many of his customers were impaired -
it only took a short conversation to experience the impairment. Very
scary indeed.
The modern polyurethane paints are fantastic - single or 2 stage - but
toxic as hell. Fresh air breather mandatory. My objective for each
mix, shoot and cure was to never even catch a whiff of it. I mostly
succeeded. I had befriended a neighbor who ran a local paint shop
specializing in trucks, RVs and other big things. They were painting
the hull of a big sailing ship which was too big for even their oversize
booths. They shot it outside and I came by to watch along with a few
others. I quickly ran out of there when I realized I was getting more
exposure to Imron single stage standing 100 feet away than I was going
to get in my own shop. I'm scared of the stuff. It's very bad.
Aviation or non-aviation paints? For our purposes, I don't think it
matters. I have no intention of dousing the plane in Skydrol. Rain is
like sandpaper at 400knots but even in a dive, I just can't flog the
horses that hard. 100knot rain erodes the old lacquers but good quality
poly seems impervious to 200knot rain. I think the sweet spot is a top
of the line Dupont Imron or PPG non-aviation paint. The lower priced
automotive lines are less durable but the industrial grade top of the
line stuff is "EAB aviation certified" in my unqualified opinion and
just a little cheaper than the aviation lines - and certainly more
available for the DIY painter.
Bill "I didn't plan to paint but it turned out to be one of the most
enjoyable challenges of the build" Watson
On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
>
> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.
Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat
/ clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation finishes.
>
> Jason
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 21
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I am not sure I would ever call anyone on this forum under-educated, much less
throw that response at a single individual. Not what I come to this forum for
and I think I can safely say I speak for more than myself. I appreciate the
information, not the insults.
michaelrorth wrote:
> Hear! Hear!
> Many Greenies are extremely under-educated.
> Thanks for the truth.
>
> One amplification, though.
> Not only has the lack of DDT resulted in the deaths of millions in the past,
> the deaths continue today.
> This is why the mosquito is often referred to as "the deadliest animal on
> earth".
> Michael
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407541#407541
Message 22
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This is extremely under-educated me not taking the bait...
Robin
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Orth
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
Hear! Hear!
Many Greenies are extremely under-educated.
Thanks for the truth.
One amplification, though.
Not only has the lack of DDT resulted in the deaths of millions in the past, the
deaths continue today.
This is why the mosquito is often referred to as "the deadliest animal on earth".
Michael
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: William Greenley
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
--> <wgreenley@gmail.com>
Sorry, I know this is off topic. But getting rid of DDT killed a million people
a year. I worked in Africa and malaria was almost history, it came roaring back
with tragic consequences I saw in my hospital on a daily basis.
If used properly it was safe and inexpensive, the first world could afford more
expensive alternatives, but the third world could not. I agree that DDT was dangerous
to the environment if misused, but that is true of many products.
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
We can all knock the EPA if we want but those are the same people that got rid
of DDT, Benzene Hexachloride & Ethyl Mercury Chloride etc.... What pricks, now
our kids are born with both their arms & legs. But don't worry industry still
has power to grow our strawberries in Ethylene Dibromide. I mean how bad can
something like that be for the environment? As much as I prefer high VOC paints
and the smell of fresh mimeograph paper I also like drinking water that you
can actually drink.
Robin :-)
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
I'm going single stage ..... just look at all the cars on the road with clear coat
problems. Done by professional robots. ;-) However using clear coat does
make spot repairs easier and hides base coat imperfections. I'm no expert painter
(nor do I play one on TV) but I doubt there's much difference between 'aviation'
and 'automotive'
finishes in this day and age. I do know the present day Imron (used to be my favorite)
is formulated differently than the old stuff .... thanks to the EPA ......
and scratches easier.
Haven't really looked, but I think you'll have far more colors to choose from with
automotive paint. I really love the Dodge Viper Red!!!!
Linn
On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
> --> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>
> We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in
Wisconsin. Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a
base coat / clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation finishes.
>
> Jason
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying -
> #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 23
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Thanks Bill, I wish I had a place to spray. I think after doing the entire build
to get to the end and say I am not capable of painting is a bit deflating,
after all the best thing about the process is the education and experience. Thanks
for the feedback. - Jason
Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote:
> I did my own paint and used a single stage Imron against the advice of a
> few local, non aircraft paint shops. I think I made the right decision.
>
> For the DIY painter, single stage is less work. But fixing mistakes can
> be harder. The paint pros explained that you can just sand out 2 stage
> mistakes and cover everything with clear coat for the A1 final finish.
> I see how 2 stage is required for a show winning finish but the single
> stage stuff is really nice. Get a nice flake color for your '10 in
> single stage and I think you'll be very happy. If your shop recommends
> it, then I know you'll be happy if they are any good at all.
>
> My advice for the DIY painter is to find a local paint distributor you
> want to work with and shoot one of the brands and lines that he
> carries. I started with the idea of using aviation lines from Dupont or
> PPG, but I ended up with a non-aviation line of Imron single stage
> because the distributor was closer to me than the PPG shop. And only a
> few places deal in the aviation lines. That turned out to be an inspired
> decision. I made almost daily trips there during my paint process -
> prices were good and while the advice was limited it was valuable for
> this first time painter.
>
> My guess is that that advice can be applied to paint selection by a
> paint shop - use what they like to use. I think skills are surprisingly
> product specific. Paints/coatings is very high tech stuff. Experience
> and manufacturers technical support are invaluable.
>
> Re regulations and their impact on paint; seems like almost everyone I
> met at the local paint depot, who had been shooting polyurethanes over
> the last decade was impaired. The guy who ran the place admitted that
> he was impaired, not that it wasn't apparent. His paint booth had sat
> idle for many years as a result. Many of his customers were impaired -
> it only took a short conversation to experience the impairment. Very
> scary indeed.
>
> The modern polyurethane paints are fantastic - single or 2 stage - but
> toxic as hell. Fresh air breather mandatory. My objective for each
> mix, shoot and cure was to never even catch a whiff of it. I mostly
> succeeded. I had befriended a neighbor who ran a local paint shop
> specializing in trucks, RVs and other big things. They were painting
> the hull of a big sailing ship which was too big for even their oversize
> booths. They shot it outside and I came by to watch along with a few
> others. I quickly ran out of there when I realized I was getting more
> exposure to Imron single stage standing 100 feet away than I was going
> to get in my own shop. I'm scared of the stuff. It's very bad.
>
> Aviation or non-aviation paints? For our purposes, I don't think it
> matters. I have no intention of dousing the plane in Skydrol. Rain is
> like sandpaper at 400knots but even in a dive, I just can't flog the
> horses that hard. 100knot rain erodes the old lacquers but good quality
> poly seems impervious to 200knot rain. I think the sweet spot is a top
> of the line Dupont Imron or PPG non-aviation paint. The lower priced
> automotive lines are less durable but the industrial grade top of the
> line stuff is "EAB aviation certified" in my unqualified opinion and
> just a little cheaper than the aviation lines - and certainly more
> available for the DIY painter.
>
> Bill "I didn't plan to paint but it turned out to be one of the most
> enjoyable challenges of the build" Watson
>
>
> On 8/26/2013 11:43 AM, jkreidler wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We are getting ready to have the airplane painted at Watertown in Wisconsin.
Any strong opinions / reasons for a single stage top coat versus a base coat
/ clear coat system? In both cases we will use aviation finishes.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > --------
> > Jason Kreidler
> > 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> > Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
> > N44YH - Flying - #40617
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407507#407507
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407542#407542
Message 24
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On 8/26/2013 6:48 PM, jkreidler wrote:
>
> Thanks Bill, I wish I had a place to spray. I think after doing the entire build
to get to the end and say I am not capable of painting is a bit deflating,
after all the best thing about the process is the education and experience.
Thanks for the feedback. - Jason
If you have a place to build then I think you have a place to paint.
This is what works for me. YMMV.
I made a 'tent' from 1/2" EMT and sheet plastic. My first booth was 9'
X 9' X 20'. I use PVC fittings to attach the EMT together. Cut schedule
80 'rings and cut the side so it makes a 'c' tube and slip them in the
PVC fittings to hold the EMT. I used the large 'butterfly clips' to
hold the plastic to the EMT. The 9' was because I could only get 10'
wide plastic at the time. There is 20' wide available now. A large
squirrel cage fan exhausted outside and fiberfill on the other end was
my filter. I paid good money for a paint mask because (at the time) the
fresh air hose was too cumbersome. Hang lots of flourescent fixtures so
you get plenty of light. I get good results (remember I'm not a
professional painter) with a HF HVLP gun.
I use a leaf blower to clean the dust out and wet down the floor before
I move the parts in and spray.
I also add some extra reducer to thin the paint, spray a light cross
coat, wait 1/2 hour and spray another light cross coat. Repeat until I
get good coverage and then quit. I wait 2 hours and then pull off any
masking paper/tape. I only use blue and green 3M tape.
For me, there is one really hard part. When you get finished with your
'wet coat(s)' and still have paint in the pot ..... throw it out and
clean up the gun. It's just so hard for me to pitch all those $$$ in my
paint recovery can. My paint recovery can is a coffee can that all the
excess paint, reducer, etc. ends up in. It goes to the hazardous waste
collector along with the empty paint cans.
Good, thorough, prep will make a world of difference in the final
paint. Poor prep and a professional painter will still get you a poor
paint job. IMHO!!!
Linn
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Longer engine cables - throttle cable and mixture cable |
Stock panel, engine, MT gov, vernier controls. I used the RV-7 throttle and ordered
prop and mixture 1" longer from ACS. Throttle was 1" longer than needed but
works okay.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407555#407555
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Settling Measurement |
I built my cowl with prop spinner 1/8" higher. After i installed the .090" ss pins
in the rear top hinge in place of alum .125" per instructions cowl dropped
a little and rear gap enlarged. After 120 hours/20 mo my spinner is still about
1/8" higher than cowling. I think the engine settled less than 1/16" just like
my cowl. I would recommend perfect alignment and not worry about it.
I left 1/8" clearance between backplate and cowl. It works but entirely too tight.
I would recommend 1/4-3/8".
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407556#407556
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