Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:52 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Issue (hotwheels)
2. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest 2013 (Pascal)
3. 09:27 AM - Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest 2013 (woxofswa)
4. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (JimVillani)
5. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Kelly McMullen)
6. 10:43 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Issue (hotwheels)
7. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Tcwtech)
8. 12:06 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Rob Kermanj)
9. 12:28 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Bob Turner)
10. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Tcwtech)
11. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Ben Westfall)
12. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Bob Leffler)
13. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Kelly McMullen)
14. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (Pascal)
15. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Issue (David Leikam)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I went out on a weekend x-country flight (6 hours) and noticed some strange behavior.
In cruise, my fuel flow readings would occasionally fluctuate between 9.5 and 10.5
gph without me touching anything... At the same time, the fuel psi changed
from ~18 (normal) and 14psi. At 14 the engine would stumble. Same behavior on
either tank... even after richening the mixture. Turning on the electric fuel
pump caused the symptom to go away. No obvious leaks and no fuel smells.
I'm wondering if I too have an issue lurking in the pump department. It's nearly
time for my annual, so it's good timing as everything has to come apart anyway.
Jay
N433RV - flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411584#411584
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| Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest 2013 |
Myron;
Sorry I missed the last carne asada this weekend. We were completely
weathered in all weekend in SoCal, I was looking forward to seeing everyone.
Maybe next time there is the "last and final", even if it means you fly in
the RV versus drive in.
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: woxofswa
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 8:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest 2013
All set up due south of the Van's display. Easier to get to now that the
fence is gone. Lots of seating and shade. Cold drinks in the cooler.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411376#411376
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| Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest 2013 |
This was a strange year RV-10 wise. I can only think of two on the ground at any
one time, Rob Hickman's, and a new one from Houston. In years past we've had
upwards of 10 or more. Lots of "regulars " over several years didn't make it
this year. Vendors I talked to said attendance was down, but higher percentage
of serious buyers. My unofficial guess would be that RV-8's ruled the show,
even with a formation flyby. Oh, and gyro copters, they seemed to be always in
the pattern. Lack of a tower seemed to be no big deal even with jets mixing
with ultralights.
Our lunch numbers were down a bit this year, but those who came were fun, hungry,
and generous. First time we've ever served all the asada we brought.
The camping area was nice that it is now paved and seemed as full as any year.
The weather was perfect and as far as I could tell, no aluminum or fabric was damaged.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411601#411601
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I seem to have the same problem when the RV10 is in warmer climates (Hangar
in Las Vegas)... I take off out of colder climates Parowan Utah (5970 MSL)
32 degrees or so (with Cool Fuel) and the problem seems to disappear.
I replaced the mechanical fuel pump about 30 hours ago thinking it was the
pump.
No change with the new pump.
Fuel flow always remains the same, Boost pump makes the pressure issue go
away...
Jim Villani
Kit# 41084
N10KQ
142.7 and counting
Jim@JimVillani.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hotwheels
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 6:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Pump Issue
I went out on a weekend x-country flight (6 hours) and noticed some strange
behavior.
In cruise, my fuel flow readings would occasionally fluctuate between 9.5
and 10.5 gph without me touching anything... At the same time, the fuel psi
changed from ~18 (normal) and 14psi. At 14 the engine would stumble. Same
behavior on either tank... even after richening the mixture. Turning on the
electric fuel pump caused the symptom to go away. No obvious leaks and no
fuel smells.
I'm wondering if I too have an issue lurking in the pump department. It's
nearly time for my annual, so it's good timing as everything has to come
apart anyway.
Jay
N433RV - flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411584#411584
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I suspect that some of the fuel pump issues are the fuel line rise to the
selector valve as Van's plans call for. Some of us have worked to lower
the valve as much as possible in the tunnel to reduce the uphill pull from
the tanks. The mechanical pump can only generate about 1-2 psi of suction
to pull fuel over that rise. Lowering the fuel pressure with that suction
is going to make it easier for fuel to vaporize and create bubbles in the
line. Pump does not do well with bubbles.
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:53 AM, JimVillani <Jim@jimvillani.com> wrote:
>
> I seem to have the same problem when the RV10 is in warmer climates (Hangar
> in Las Vegas)... I take off out of colder climates Parowan Utah (5970 MSL)
> 32 degrees or so (with Cool Fuel) and the problem seems to disappear.
> I replaced the mechanical fuel pump about 30 hours ago thinking it was the
> pump.
> No change with the new pump.
> Fuel flow always remains the same, Boost pump makes the pressure issue go
> away...
>
> Jim Villani
> Kit# 41084
> N10KQ
> 142.7 and counting
> Jim@JimVillani.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hotwheels
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 6:43 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Pump Issue
>
>
> I went out on a weekend x-country flight (6 hours) and noticed some strange
> behavior.
>
> In cruise, my fuel flow readings would occasionally fluctuate between 9.5
> and 10.5 gph without me touching anything... At the same time, the fuel psi
> changed from ~18 (normal) and 14psi. At 14 the engine would stumble. Same
> behavior on either tank... even after richening the mixture. Turning on the
> electric fuel pump caused the symptom to go away. No obvious leaks and no
> fuel smells.
>
> I'm wondering if I too have an issue lurking in the pump department. It's
> nearly time for my annual, so it's good timing as everything has to come
> apart anyway.
>
> Jay
> N433RV - flying
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411584#411584
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I'm using an Andair selector and the valve is pretty low in the tunnel as I had
to buy an extender to reach it. Have occasionally seen engine stumble during
very high AOA stall work if electric full pump is not running. Same when switching
fuel tanks, but not always. Is 18psi fuel pressure off mechanical within
"normal" range?
Thanks,
Jay
N433RV - flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411613#411613
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
You may want to read over this write up I did last year on this issue. I t
hink this may be your issue.
http://tcwtech.com/Fuel%20flow%20write-up.pdf
Bob Newman
N541RV
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 28, 2013, at 7:42 AM, "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I went out on a weekend x-country flight (6 hours) and noticed some strang
e behavior.
>
> In cruise, my fuel flow readings would occasionally fluctuate between 9.5 a
nd 10.5 gph without me touching anything... At the same time, the fuel psi c
hanged from ~18 (normal) and 14psi. At 14 the engine would stumble. Same beh
avior on either tank... even after richening the mixture. Turning on the ele
ctric fuel pump caused the symptom to go away. No obvious leaks and no fuel s
mells.
>
> I'm wondering if I too have an issue lurking in the pump department. It's n
early time for my annual, so it's good timing as everything has to come apar
t anyway.
>
> Jay
> N433RV - flying
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411584#411584
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
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=========
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I have my fuel system set up exactly as plans show and I have only had
one occasion in stinking hot hot weather during climb, that I felt a
small rumble with engine missing. Turning the fuel pump on fixed the
issue immediately.
I do have one modification to the tunnel due to Florida's heat; one of
my cabin heat hoses actually pumps fresh air into the tunnel and reduces
the temperature from scolding hot to bearable on the tunnel walls.
My set up points the issue to tunnel heat than anything else.
Do not archive.
Rob Kermanj
772-418-1417
On Oct 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Tcwtech <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
> You may want to read over this write up I did last year on this issue.
I think this may be your issue.
>
> http://tcwtech.com/Fuel%20flow%20write-up.pdf
>
> Bob Newman
> N541RV
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 7:42 AM, "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
<jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
>>
>> I went out on a weekend x-country flight (6 hours) and noticed some
strange behavior.
>>
>> In cruise, my fuel flow readings would occasionally fluctuate between
9.5 and 10.5 gph without me touching anything... At the same time, the
fuel psi changed from ~18 (normal) and 14psi. At 14 the engine would
stumble. Same behavior on either tank... even after richening the
mixture. Turning on the electric fuel pump caused the symptom to go
away. No obvious leaks and no fuel smells.
>>
>> I'm wondering if I too have an issue lurking in the pump department.
It's nearly time for my annual, so it's good timing as everything has to
come apart anyway.
>>
>> Jay
>> N433RV - flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411584#411584
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
http://forums.matr===================
========sp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
n=========================
===================
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
The physicist in me feels compelled to point out that the fuel pump does not pull
fuel up to the fuel valve. This is like a siphon; atmospheric air pressure
is sufficient to push the fuel up to the valve, and back to the tunnel floor.
However, the conclusion that pressure is reduced at the high point is correct.
I have a stock Vans setup and have never seen anything like a vapor lock issue,
including some very hot weather flying. But I also have the post 2008 setup where
Vans lowered the fuel valve location. Do those seeing problems have the earlier,
higher mounted valves?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411621#411621
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I have the Andair valve mounted low in the tunnel actuated by an extension arm
a few inches long.
Bob Newman
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 28, 2013, at 1:28 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> The physicist in me feels compelled to point out that the fuel pump does not
pull fuel up to the fuel valve. This is like a siphon; atmospheric air pressure
is sufficient to push the fuel up to the valve, and back to the tunnel floor.
However, the conclusion that pressure is reduced at the high point is correct.
>
> I have a stock Vans setup and have never seen anything like a vapor lock issue,
including some very hot weather flying. But I also have the post 2008 setup
where Vans lowered the fuel valve location. Do those seeing problems have the
earlier, higher mounted valves?
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411621#411621
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
Is the "rise" a cumulative effect or overall from the tanks to engine driven
pump? I would think that the rise from the electric pump to the firewall AN
fitting is greater than the rise from tunnel floor to the valve body. If
cumulative then maybe the two put together is an issue?
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 12:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Pump Issue
The physicist in me feels compelled to point out that the fuel pump does not
pull fuel up to the fuel valve. This is like a siphon; atmospheric air
pressure is sufficient to push the fuel up to the valve, and back to the
tunnel floor. However, the conclusion that pressure is reduced at the high
point is correct.
I have a stock Vans setup and have never seen anything like a vapor lock
issue, including some very hot weather flying. But I also have the post 2008
setup where Vans lowered the fuel valve location. Do those seeing problems
have the earlier, higher mounted valves?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411621#411621
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I have the same
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 28, 2013, at 3:52 PM, Tcwtech <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
I have the Andair valve mounted low in the tunnel actuated by an extension arm
a few inches long.
Bob Newman
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 1:28 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> The physicist in me feels compelled to point out that the fuel pump does not
pull fuel up to the fuel valve. This is like a siphon; atmospheric air pressure
is sufficient to push the fuel up to the valve, and back to the tunnel floor.
However, the conclusion that pressure is reduced at the high point is correct.
>
> I have a stock Vans setup and have never seen anything like a vapor lock issue,
including some very hot weather flying. But I also have the post 2008 setup
where Vans lowered the fuel valve location. Do those seeing problems have the
earlier, higher mounted valves?
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411621#411621
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
Bob,
Very well written explanation of at least one factor in the problem. Not to
mention that having the FF sending unit in the tunnel introduces two more
connections in the tunnel that could leak.
Van's reasoning is rather faulty in my view, since the red cube is FAA
certified for use in the engine compartment, and in fact the STC that I
have on my Mooney using the same sending unit requires the sending unit
between the mechanical pump and the fuel servo on certified planes without
a return line, and between the servo and the flow divider on planes with a
return line.
Also, IMHO, 18 PSI is inadequate for normal operation. My Mooney with
IO-360 and the same pump sees 24-25 PSI as normal from fuel flow of 8 gph
up to 18 gph, with normal cruise around 10 gph on mechanical pump only.
Boost pump will add 1-2 psi with engine running.
14 psi is the absolute minimum for the Bendix RSA fuel injection, with 45
max.
Unless I am looking at my fuselage crooked the stock Van's selector
location is near the full fuel level of the tanks and way above the empty
tank level, so gravity at less than something like 3/4 tank is not going to
provide any flow of fuel through the selector without some initiating
suction and a siphon to keep it going. Introduce any air or vapor and the
siphon will be lost.
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Tcwtech <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
> You may want to read over this write up I did last year on this issue. I
> think this may be your issue.
>
> http://tcwtech.com/Fuel%20flow%20write-up.pdf
>
> Bob Newman
> N541RV
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 7:42 AM, "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I went out on a weekend x-country flight (6 hours) and noticed some
> strange behavior.
>
> In cruise, my fuel flow readings would occasionally fluctuate between 9.5
> and 10.5 gph without me touching anything... At the same time, the fuel psi
> changed from ~18 (normal) and 14psi. At 14 the engine would stumble. Same
> behavior on either tank... even after richening the mixture. Turning on the
> electric fuel pump caused the symptom to go away. No obvious leaks and no
> fuel smells.
>
> I'm wondering if I too have an issue lurking in the pump department. It's
> nearly time for my annual, so it's good timing as everything has to come
> apart anyway.
>
> Jay
> N433RV - flying
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411584#411584
>
>
> ****http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> **http://forums.matr====================================================sp;  
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
> http://www.matronics.com/con============================================
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I have a post 2008 and I have seen fuel pressure issues in a climb once out
of 101F in Arizona and after a 2nd takeoff in 90F SoCal, right after
refueling. In both cases the VP-200 threw in the autoboost and it was gone.
It happens, but rarely. Engine has no idea there is a problem or it doesnt
sound like it does anyway
My biggest issue remains the fuel flow- it will vary from 10.2gph to 9.9
without changing a thing, than go back up to 10.1 and back and forth
in-between.
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Turner
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 12:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Pump Issue
The physicist in me feels compelled to point out that the fuel pump does not
pull fuel up to the fuel valve. This is like a siphon; atmospheric air
pressure is sufficient to push the fuel up to the valve, and back to the
tunnel floor. However, the conclusion that pressure is reduced at the high
point is correct.
I have a stock Vans setup and have never seen anything like a vapor lock
issue, including some very hot weather flying. But I also have the post 2008
setup where Vans lowered the fuel valve location. Do those seeing problems
have the earlier, higher mounted valves?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411621#411621
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
I see 24 psi from my mechanical pump. 28 or so for electric.
Dave Leikam
On Oct 28, 2013, at 12:43 PM, hotwheels <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I'm using an Andair selector and the valve is pretty low in the tunnel as I had
to buy an extender to reach it. Have occasionally seen engine stumble during
very high AOA stall work if electric full pump is not running. Same when switching
fuel tanks, but not always. Is 18psi fuel pressure off mechanical within
"normal" range?
>
> Thanks,
> Jay
> N433RV - flying
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411613#411613
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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