Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Linn Walters)
2. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Tim Olson)
3. 09:25 AM - Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Bob Turner)
4. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Danny Riggs)
5. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Linn Walters)
6. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Rene Felker)
7. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (JimVillani)
8. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Tim Olson)
9. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (JimVillani)
10. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Carl Froehlich)
11. 03:03 PM - Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Bob Turner)
12. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Linn Walters)
13. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Carl Froehlich)
14. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... (Linn Walters)
15. 07:22 PM - Re: rudder trim RV-10 (bob88)
16. 07:29 PM - Re: rudder trim RV-10 (Jim Berry)
17. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: rudder trim RV-10 (Rene)
18. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: rudder trim RV-10 (Pascal)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
Linn
On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> A few thoughts.
> I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set up requires
one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch fails the
flap motor will run continuously.
> If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the switch
in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are operational
choices to be made, so this is not too different from just putting in a dedicated
trim speed switch.
> I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using just lower
voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would stall. Since
you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks more you could
put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as slow as you
like.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Flap speed is not a problem. Elevator trim speed is definitely a
problem in cruise,
and I'd call it critical for safe operation that the speed be reduced
above about
110kts.
Tim
On 12/6/2013 11:09 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth
> all this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>>
>> A few thoughts.
>> I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your
>> set up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit
>> switch fails the flap motor will run continuously.
>> If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put
>> the switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is,
>> there are operational choices to be made, so this is not too
>> different from just putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
>> I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using
>> just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim
>> motor would stall. Since you've already got some electronics there,
>> for just a few bucks more you could put in a pulse width modulation
>> system and adjust it to go as slow as you like.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
>>
>>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I think you mis-read, this post is about pitch trim motor speed, not flap speeds.
One poster has tied a change in trim speed to his flap position, others are
using a speed sensitive device (safe trim).
Yes, the trim speed as it comes from Vans is about right for takeoff and landing
but too fast for cruise.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414984#414984
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just have 'bu
mped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least that's the wa
y it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to see how your plane o
perates and then make changes as needed. There may be some variations betwe
en individual systems and or operator desires.
> Date: Fri=2C 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> From: flying-nut@cfl.rr.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
>
> Since I'm not there yet=2C is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM=2C Bob Turner wrote:
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position=2C but your s
et up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch
fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is=2C there are o
perational choices to be made=2C so this is not too different from just put
ting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like=2C using
just lower voltages=2C without using voltages so low that the trim motor wo
uld stall. Since you've already got some electronics there=2C for just a fe
w bucks more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it
to go as slow as you like.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Thanks Bob, getting old sucks!!!
So, to continue on with the thread, why not install a PW control as you
suggested or run the trim off 6V?
Linn
On 12/6/2013 12:25 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> I think you mis-read, this post is about pitch trim motor speed, not flap speeds.
One poster has tied a change in trim speed to his flap position, others are
using a speed sensitive device (safe trim).
> Yes, the trim speed as it comes from Vans is about right for takeoff and landing
but too fast for cruise.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414984#414984
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I have not had a problem. I did put in the safety trim system so the most I
can do is 3 seconds at a time. I think 3 seconds at cruse could lead to a
little bit of challenge, but not impossible to handle.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just have
'bumped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least that's the
way it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to see how your plane
operates and then make changes as needed. There may be some variations
between individual systems and or operator desires.
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> From: flying-nut@cfl.rr.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
>
> Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set
up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch
fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are
operational choices to be made, so this is not too different from just
putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using
just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would
stall. Since you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks
more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as
slow as you like.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I use to bump my hat also with limited control.
With the speed reduction in cruse position your adjustment is so fine it is
almost like an altitude hold.
A 30% reduction in speed really makes a difference in feathering the trim.
Jim Villani
Kit# 41084
Jim@JimVillani.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just have
'bumped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least that's the
way it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to see how your plane
operates and then make changes as needed. There may be some variations
between individual systems and or operator desires.
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> From: flying-nut@cfl.rr.com <mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
<mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> >
>
> Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
<mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> >
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set
up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch
fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are
operational choices to be made, so this is not too different from just
putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using
just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would
stall. Since you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks
more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as
slow as you like.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> >
> >
>
>
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Danny,
This isn't an issue of how easy it is to trim, this is an issue of safety.
Yes, bumping it for a fraction of a second will indeed make it trim
reasonably
slow and you can indeed use it that way.
The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the switch.
Even as early as my flyoff period, I had a clipboard hit the trim hat,
and within a couple seconds I was in a hard nose-up climb. I did some
testing
later after adding safety trim to see just how bad it gets, and really
if you
have anything (ipad, book, checklist, chart, person) lay on that switch
for a
full second or more, it gets scary and for much longer than a second you
could get close to having g-rating problems perhaps. So best to just
do speed reduction for sure. The side benefit is that you can then even
have MORE fine control over trim, because that same bump you use now
is reduced to maybe 1/8th what it is.
Tim
On 12/6/2013 11:42 AM, Danny Riggs wrote:
> I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just
> have 'bumped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least
> that's the way it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to
> see how your plane operates and then make changes as needed. There may
> be some variations between individual systems and or operator desires.
>
> > Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> > From: flying-nut@cfl.rr.com
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
> >
> >
> > Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> > this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> > Linn
> >
> > On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> > >
> > > A few thoughts.
> > > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but
> your set up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap
> limit switch fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put
> the switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is,
> there are operational choices to be made, so this is not too different
> from just putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like,
> using just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim
> motor would stall. Since you've already got some electronics there,
> for just a few bucks more you could put in a pulse width modulation
> system and adjust it to go as slow as you like.
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Bob Turner
> > > RV-10 QB
> > >
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I concur 100%.
That is what drove me to slow it down, a sudden bump and you are in another
world.
Jim Villani
Kit# 41084
Jim@JimVillani.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
Danny,
This isn't an issue of how easy it is to trim, this is an issue of safety.
Yes, bumping it for a fraction of a second will indeed make it trim
reasonably
slow and you can indeed use it that way.
The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the switch.
Even as early as my flyoff period, I had a clipboard hit the trim hat,
and within a couple seconds I was in a hard nose-up climb. I did some
testing
later after adding safety trim to see just how bad it gets, and really if
you
have anything (ipad, book, checklist, chart, person) lay on that switch for
a
full second or more, it gets scary and for much longer than a second you
could get close to having g-rating problems perhaps. So best to just
do speed reduction for sure. The side benefit is that you can then even
have MORE fine control over trim, because that same bump you use now
is reduced to maybe 1/8th what it is.
Tim
On 12/6/2013 11:42 AM, Danny Riggs wrote:
I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just have
'bumped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least that's the
way it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to see how your plane
operates and then make changes as needed. There may be some variations
between individual systems and or operator desires.
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> From: flying-nut@cfl.rr.com <mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
<mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
<mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set
up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch
fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are
operational choices to be made, so this is not too different from just
putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using
just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would
stall. Since you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks
more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as
slow as you like.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I have the flap controller install just as Van's provides. Works just fine.
Flap position indication is a simple look out the window.
I have the two speed safety trim controller and I recommend it. After 10
years of flying an 8A with just the single speed elevator & aileron trim I
am used to not having the slow trim speed option - so I rarely use it in the
RV-10.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all this
trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
Linn
On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> A few thoughts.
> I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set up
requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch fails
the flap motor will run continuously.
> If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are
operational choices to be made, so this is not too different from just
putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using just
lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would
stall. Since you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks
more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as
slow as you like.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the
switch.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> [b]
Because of this I did not put a top hat on the right side (there is a panel rocker
switch for when I fly from the right seat).
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415016#415016
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I wired both stick in parallel ..... with a switch in the co-pilot
ground to disable that stick.
All the other buttons on the co-pilot side can cause consternation to
the pilot!!!!
Linn
On 12/6/2013 6:03 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
> The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the
switch.
>
> Tim
> Because of this I did not put a top hat on the right side (there is a panel
rocker switch for when I fly from the right seat).
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415016#415016
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Yep - I did the same except the switch on the panel controls the common
ground such that the pilot or co-pilot trim top hat and flaps work. This
way if the pilot stick switch breaks (as on sticks shut) moving the panel
toggle switch to the co-pilot position isolates the fault as well as
restores trim/flap control buy using the co-pilot grip switches.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
I wired both stick in parallel ..... with a switch in the co-pilot ground to
disable that stick.
All the other buttons on the co-pilot side can cause consternation to the
pilot!!!!
Linn
On 12/6/2013 6:03 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
> The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the
switch.
>
> Tim
> Because of this I did not put a top hat on the right side (there is a
panel rocker switch for when I fly from the right seat).
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415016#415016
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I like that idea! Simple switch change. Thanks.
Linn
On 12/6/2013 8:28 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Yep - I did the same except the switch on the panel controls the common
> ground such that the pilot or co-pilot trim top hat and flaps work. This
> way if the pilot stick switch breaks (as on sticks shut) moving the panel
> toggle switch to the co-pilot position isolates the fault as well as
> restores trim/flap control buy using the co-pilot grip switches.
>
> Carl
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
Anyone have experience with the electric rudder trim kit that is available for
the RV10? Is rudder trim important in the 10?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415035#415035
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
I have rudder trim in my -10, and like it. That said, I consider it a nice to have
feature, not something essential.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415036#415036
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
Same here.................
Rene'
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 8:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
I have rudder trim in my -10, and like it. That said, I consider it a nice
to have feature, not something essential.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415036#415036
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
I have a tab on the rudder, ball is pretty much centered in cruise most of
the time. You will need something more than nothing.
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: bob88
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 7:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
Anyone have experience with the electric rudder trim kit that is available
for the RV10? Is rudder trim important in the 10?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415035#415035
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