---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/08/13: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:12 AM - EZ Heat engine block heater (Rob Kermanj) 2. 07:13 AM - Re: re bird strike repairs (Jim Combs) 3. 07:56 AM - Re: rudder trim RV-10 (johngoodman) 4. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: rudder trim RV-10 (Carl Froehlich) 5. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: rudder trim RV-10 (Pascal) 6. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: rudder trim RV-10 (Geoff Combs) 7. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: rudder trim RV-10 (Seano) 8. 11:18 AM - Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall (Mike Whisky) 9. 12:23 PM - Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall (johngoodman) 10. 12:33 PM - =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_RV10-List=3A_Full_power_30=C2=B0_bank_sta?= =?windows-1252?Q?ll? (Marcus Cooper) 11. 01:11 PM - Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_bank_stall? (Werner Schneider) 12. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_bank_stal?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?l? (Werner Schneider) 13. 02:56 PM - Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall (Bob Turner) 14. 04:00 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_RV10=2DList=3A_Full_power_30=C2=B0_bank_stall? (Kelly McMullen) 15. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?bank_stall? (Linn Walters) 16. 05:43 PM - Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0?= bank stall (Bob Turner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:11 AM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: RV10-List: EZ Heat engine block heater couple of pictures of my installation just in case someone is planning the same. The installation instructions are conceptual and not directly related to IO540. Basically, place the pads where you they fit. The throttle body and the cable bracket had to come out to accommodate the installation. Of course easiest installation during the building process. Have not fired it up yet, 24 hrs needed to cure. Costs $185 including shipping from AS. Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: re bird strike repairs From: Jim Combs I tried to contact them and could not. So I put a Vans window back in. It goes a lot easier the second time around. On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Pascal wrote: > Hopefully you used the desser/Cee Baileys, > That would explain the quick time to repair > > > On Dec 7, 2013, at 3:23 PM, Jim Combs wrote: > > The second time goes a LOT quicker than the first time! > > The fear of screwing it up is not there. Its the 3 hours of grinding out > the old one that was the worst. > > Jim C > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > >> >> Wow, that was fast! I started on my windshield install shortly after your >> incident report. Still working on getting the fiberglass fairing finished. >> >> On 12/7/2013 8:12 AM, Jim Combs wrote: >> >>> - >>> N312F - flying again after the bird strike repairs! >>> >>> Jim C >>> >>> >>> >> >> =================================== >> om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> "_blank">www.mrrace.com >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> le, List Admin. >> =================================== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> =================================== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> =================================== >> >> >> >> > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:34 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 From: "johngoodman" I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked] Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants.... John -------- #40572 Phase One complete and flying. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:31 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 Yep - I looked at this and decided that while it is simple and effective, it is way overpriced. The M.L. Skunkworks version is still listed for $115 - much more reasonable. http://www.mlblueskunk.com/Rudder_Trim_System.html After all the rigging tweaks during Phase One I have not found a need for rudder trim in cruise. Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 --> I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked] Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants.... John -------- #40572 Phase One complete and flying. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:12 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 I mentioned the tab, that fellow Don McDonald helped me create and it was not a big deal. You grab a piece of aluminum, 4" X 2" and you bend it slightly. Fly and see what happens at cruise. adjust as needed and repeat flight until ball is centered. If I add up the cost of gas I guess it was about $75, except I was flying anyway so it was practically free. My ball is centered than not and I rarely need to adjust it in cruise, John is right on, once you get the rudder tab tuned in there is very little trim adjustments needed. I know Tim Olson went the route of the trim tab to electronic trim, I would encourage all you debating this to check out his extensive review and steps to do oneself. Pascal -----Original Message----- From: johngoodman Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 7:56 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked] Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants.... John -------- #40572 Phase One complete and flying. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:10 AM PST US From: "Geoff Combs" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 John Aerosport Products rudder trim is a much more refined unit then the skunkworks. You get what you pay for with our rudder trim. It might not be for everyone. If you saw What goes into making this a quality unit and you may or may not understand. Geoff Geoff Combs Aerosport Products 8090 howe industrial pkwy canal winchester, ohio 43110 614.834.8659p www.aerosportproducts.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 --> I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked] Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants.... John -------- #40572 Phase One complete and flying. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:12 AM PST US From: "Seano" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 I love my rudder trim form Aerosport. It works perfect and doesn't add weight to the rudder assembly. As a great by-product it holds the rudder from being slammed around in winds. Of course you need to put in a gust lock in strong gusts. -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Combs Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2013 9:30 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 John Aerosport Products rudder trim is a much more refined unit then the skunkworks. You get what you pay for with our rudder trim. It might not be for everyone. If you saw What goes into making this a quality unit and you may or may not understand. Geoff Geoff Combs Aerosport Products 8090 howe industrial pkwy canal winchester, ohio 43110 614.834.8659p www.aerosportproducts.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10 --> I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked] Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants.... John -------- #40572 Phase One complete and flying. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:23 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall From: "Mike Whisky" My test program asks for a full power 30 bank stall. M question is if this has been done by others and what is the aircrafts behavior. I'd expect that the low wing would stall first due to lower airspeed compared to the outer turn wing. What did you experience? Thanks Mike -------- RV-10 builder (flying, test phase) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:45 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall From: "johngoodman" That's a strange one for a non-acrobatic RV-10. It would take a LOT of nose up at full power to stall. John -------- #40572 Phase One complete and flying. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415144#415144 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:34 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_RV10-List=3A_Full_power_30=C2=B0_bank_sta?= =?windows-1252?Q?ll? From: Marcus Cooper Not sure why you need to test that configuration, but a full power stall in the RV-10 can get pretty nose high so just be ready. This is particularly the case if you have some flaps down and the only situation I can imagine needing to test this setup for would be in the event of disorientation after a go-around in which case you will probably have the flaps down. Also make sure you maintain coordinated flight going into it as with full power you should have a fair amount of rudder in, otherwise youll get a pretty hefty wing drop. In all stalls Ive tried the wings have remained steady and the nose drop is remarkably unimpressive (a good thing). Just my .02, Marcus do not archive On Dec 8, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Mike Whisky wrote: My test program asks for a full power 30 bank stall. M question is if this has been done by others and what is the aircrafts behavior. I'd expect that the low wing would stall first due to lower airspeed compared to the outer turn wing. What did you experience? Thanks Mike -------- RV-10 builder (flying, test phase) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:05 PM PST US From: Werner Schneider Subject: Re: RV10-List: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_bank_stall? Michael, please discuss with your flight advisor, I would do a step up approach first with 60% power to get a feeling (and start enough high). My Glastar does exactly the opposite to what you describe (and I can repeat it) so the outer wing stalls and the plane goes into a straight and level attitude with nose down, very tame. However I did hear from Lancair/Glasair pilot from wing overs! (Andre Beusch might be a good person to talk about his experience.) Good luck (and I'm impressed with your landings, seems the 10 has a lot of elevator authority on slow speed as well as that nose gear is up about half the runway long :) Cheers Werner On 08.12.2013 20:17, Mike Whisky wrote: > > My test program asks for a full power 30 bank stall. > M question is if this has been done by others and what is the aircrafts behavior. I'd expect that the low wing would stall first due to lower airspeed compared to the outer turn wing. > > What did you experience? > > Thanks > Mike > > -------- > RV-10 builder (flying, test phase) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:49 PM PST US From: Werner Schneider Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_bank_stal?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?l? John, the idea behind that point is to simulate a large bank on a go around. It should not be done that way, but in Switzerland the test flying includes that program point. Cheers Werner On 08.12.2013 21:23, johngoodman wrote: > > That's a strange one for a non-acrobatic RV-10. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:33 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall From: "Bob Turner" Remember that stall depends on angle of attack, not airspeed. The raised wing has a slightly higher angle of attack due to the lowered aileron. The plane just falls out of the turn, if the ball is centered. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415151#415151 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:59 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_RV10=2DList=3A_Full_power_30=C2=B0_bank_stall? From: Kelly McMullen If you are forced to do such a test, I would load to near gross weight, and bring the power in very slowly. Someone should be able to explain what scenario it is supposed to duplicate. Flaps should be up for most any scenario including missed approach or go around, as there should be no turning before flaps are retracted. On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Mike Whisky wrote: > > My test program asks for a full power 30=B0 bank stall. > M question is if this has been done by others and what is the aircrafts > behavior. I'd expect that the low wing would stall first due to lower > airspeed compared to the outer turn wing. > > What did you experience? > > Thanks > Mike > > -------- > RV-10 builder (flying, test phase) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:57 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?bank_stall? I'm thinking that the test is just a plain accelerated stall ..... and the stall should be occur about 20 knots above straight and level stall speed. So, at some comfortable speed 90 to 100 knots .... roll into the 30 degree bank and apply back pressure to hold altitude. The airspeed should decrease as you add back pressure until the stall occurs. Different airframes act differently. Some will roll to the outside of the turn and some will just drop the nose and roll to the inside. Let us know if that satisfies the test and what the resulting unusual attitude you get!!! I may be wrong, but this is my take. Linn On 12/8/2013 7:00 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > If you are forced to do such a test, I would load to near gross > weight, and bring the power in very slowly. Someone should be able to > explain what scenario it is supposed to duplicate. Flaps should be up > for most any scenario including missed approach or go around, as there > should be no turning before flaps are retracted. > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Mike Whisky > wrote: > > > > > My test program asks for a full power 30 bank stall. > M question is if this has been done by others and what is the > aircrafts behavior. I'd expect that the low wing would stall first > due to lower airspeed compared to the outer turn wing. > > What did you experience? > > Thanks > Mike > > -------- > RV-10 builder (flying, test phase) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139 > > > ========== > ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com > "_blank">www.mrrace.com > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > le, List Admin. > ========== > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > > > -- > > - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm > * > > * > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:39 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0?= bank stall From: "Bob Turner" Technically yes it's an accelerated stall but at a 30 degree bank the load factor is only 1.15, so stall speed should go up 7.5% -about 5 kias. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415159#415159 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.