---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/16/13: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:14 AM - 2013 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) 2. 06:32 AM - Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall (Tim Olson) 3. 06:45 AM - Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall (Sean Stephens) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall (Carl Froehlich) 5. 06:58 AM - Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall (Tim Olson) 6. 07:02 AM - Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall (Kelly McMullen) 7. 07:23 AM - Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall (johngoodman) 8. 01:29 PM - Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall (rv10flyer) 9. 02:05 PM - Re: WIng Bolt Check (rv10flyer) 10. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: WIng Bolt Check (Kelly McMullen) 11. 06:48 PM - Re: WIng Bolt Check (Bob Turner) 12. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: WIng Bolt Check (Linn Walters) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:56 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV10-List: 2013 List of Contributors Dear Listers, The 2013 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors. It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running! You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I also want to thank Andy, Bob, Corbin, George, and Jon for their generous support through the supply of many great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com Corbin Glowacki - My Pilot Store - http://www.mypilotstore.com George Race - Race Consulting - http://www.mrrace.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2013 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2013.html Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:18 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall Carl, I used almost exactly the same thing. At the time I think it was called Foss Thermozite Plus. But the stuff I got (the "plus") was silver on 2 sides. You didn't run across that anywhere, did you? I will probably use it again on the RV-14. I used red RTV to stick it to the side walls and firewall, and it hasn't loosened up at all....that was the benefit to me of the silver on 2 sides. The tape would work too of course, but if I can find the "plus" stuff easily I'll do that. Tim On 12/15/2013 8:48 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > > Cabin side. That way the grease and grime does not get into the insulation. > > I used this for the whole plane (the double sided version): > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insulator3.php > And this tape to hold it all in: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insultape.php > > If you want to do the minimalistic approach then just do the inside of the > firewall and the tunnel floor. I did all the hidden areas between the > floorboards, under the seats and the where the hull has a double wall. > > Carl > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88 > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 8:26 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall > > > Has anyone out there used a product called FYREWRAP to insulate their > firewall? It is a fiberfrax-like product with stainless steel foil on one > side. Regardless of the product, is it better to insulate on the engine side > or the cabin side (or not insulate at all?) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415631#415631 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:57 AM PST US From: Sean Stephens Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall Carl, link below has an option to buy it with foil on both sides. -Sean #40303 (struggling to complete the last 90%) > Tim Olson > December 16, 2013 at 8:31 AM > > Carl, > I used almost exactly the same thing. At the time I think it was called > Foss Thermozite Plus. But the stuff I got (the "plus") was silver on 2 > sides. You didn't run across that anywhere, did you? I will probably > use > it again on the RV-14. I used red RTV to stick it to the side walls > and firewall, and it hasn't loosened up at all....that was the benefit > to me of the silver on 2 sides. The tape would work too of course, but > if I can find the "plus" stuff easily I'll do that. > > Tim > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:14 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall ACS has both the single and double side aluminum versions. They are listed as different part numbers (09-06016 for double sided). The double side makes the most sense as it provides a barrier to getting "stuff" into the insulation material. Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 9:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall Carl, I used almost exactly the same thing. At the time I think it was called Foss Thermozite Plus. But the stuff I got (the "plus") was silver on 2 sides. You didn't run across that anywhere, did you? I will probably use it again on the RV-14. I used red RTV to stick it to the side walls and firewall, and it hasn't loosened up at all....that was the benefit to me of the silver on 2 sides. The tape would work too of course, but if I can find the "plus" stuff easily I'll do that. Tim On 12/15/2013 8:48 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > --> > > Cabin side. That way the grease and grime does not get into the insulation. > > I used this for the whole plane (the double sided version): > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insulator3.php > And this tape to hold it all in: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insultape.php > > If you want to do the minimalistic approach then just do the inside of > the firewall and the tunnel floor. I did all the hidden areas between > the floorboards, under the seats and the where the hull has a double wall. > > Carl > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88 > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 8:26 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall > > > Has anyone out there used a product called FYREWRAP to insulate their > firewall? It is a fiberfrax-like product with stainless steel foil on > one side. Regardless of the product, is it better to insulate on the > engine side or the cabin side (or not insulate at all?) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415631#415631 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:09 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall I guess it's Monday...I looked right at it and didn't see. Thanks Carl! Tim On 12/16/2013 8:50 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > > ACS has both the single and double side aluminum versions. They are listed > as different part numbers (09-06016 for double sided). The double side > makes the most sense as it provides a barrier to getting "stuff" into the > insulation material. > > Carl > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall From: Kelly McMullen I didn't see a link. I did look at the Foss Thermozite product just now. I am concerned that the fiber between the foil layers is polyester, from shredded plastic bottles. I wonder how well that stands up to heat compared to ceramic materials like fiberfrax. If I could find genuine fiberfrax sandwiched in foil I would love to add that to the fiberfrax I already installed. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Sean Stephens wrote: > > Carl, link below has an option to buy it with foil on both sides. > > -Sean #40303 (struggling to complete the last 90%) > > Tim Olson >> December 16, 2013 at 8:31 AM >> >> >> Carl, >> I used almost exactly the same thing. At the time I think it was called >> Foss Thermozite Plus. But the stuff I got (the "plus") was silver on 2 >> sides. You didn't run across that anywhere, did you? I will probably use >> it again on the RV-14. I used red RTV to stick it to the side walls >> and firewall, and it hasn't loosened up at all....that was the benefit >> to me of the silver on 2 sides. The tape would work too of course, but >> if I can find the "plus" stuff easily I'll do that. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:58 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall From: "johngoodman" I used a product from Aircraft Spruce called Firewall 2000 Ceramic Blanket: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000.php I used a special adhesive to attach it - still holding strong after 2.5 years of flying. The hardest part is not cutting yourself with the stainless steel foil side. On the cockpit side I used Soundex. John -------- #40572 Phase One complete and flying. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415737#415737 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:24 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall From: "rv10flyer" I used 1/8" bare fiberfrax on cabin side of fw, tunnel bottom and tunnel fwd. I used the recommended 2000F glue from ACS. No problems with it coming loose or tunnel heat. I burn tested a sample and was not overwelmed with outgassing. I installed an adjustable snap switch limit set to 230F near cowl outlet. It has went off once cruising at 16,500', full gross, LOP, 6 deg pos pitch(normally 2-3). Assuming thin air heated up more passing cylinders. Knowing you have a fire should be top priority. Along with switch/led, I have set my fuel flow limit to 26 gph. Normal on takeoff is 25.6 -------- Wayne G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415761#415761 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:39 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: WIng Bolt Check From: "rv10flyer" I did and would recommend checking at first condition insp or 100 hrs after build completion. -------- Wayne G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415763#415763 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:01 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: WIng Bolt Check Kind of a belt and suspenders thing. If you properly torqued on final assembly, and put torque seal on each bolt, to check it you have to remove the torque seal, and if the nut does not move at proper torque you haven't learned much. If you really have doubt about the torque, you need to back off the nut, and bring it back up to proper torque. Questionable whether you gain much. The wing bolts aren't something that will work loose with changing forces on the wing, or with temperature changes. There was a service bulletin to change wing bolts on Bonanzas and Barons, which were also close tolerance bolts. Found they did more damage than leaving them alone. On 12/16/2013 3:04 PM, rv10flyer wrote: > > I did and would recommend checking at first condition insp or 100 hrs after build completion. > > -------- > Wayne G. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415763#415763 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:40 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: WIng Bolt Check From: "Bob Turner" The one thing I can think of is that if the bolt shank was pinched or really tight during installation, could the nut come to final torque without pulling the bolt head tight against the spar? After flying, the bolt head could move aft and now there is no torque? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415772#415772 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:55 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: WIng Bolt Check I'm not there yet so bear with me. The spar bolts, in this installation, are in shear so I'm having a hard time understanding why the focus is on the proper torque at some time later .... while the torque seal is intact. Kelly, IMHO, got it right the first time .... checking the torque in this instance doesn't mean diddly unless you back off the nut and re-torque .... and the exercise hasn't accomplished anything except to place the mind at ease. It was a waste of worry to begin with. So, where did I go wrong??? Linn On 12/16/2013 9:48 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > The one thing I can think of is that if the bolt shank was pinched or really tight during installation, could the nut come to final torque without pulling the bolt head tight against the spar? After flying, the bolt head could move aft and now there is no torque? > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415772#415772 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.