---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/28/14: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:21 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Bob Leffler) 2. 03:55 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Carl Froehlich) 3. 05:38 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Bob Leffler) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Bob Condrey) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Kelly McMullen) 6. 06:39 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Tim Olson) 7. 07:16 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Linn Walters) 8. 07:22 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Kelly McMullen) 9. 09:50 AM - Re: Relocating the fuel filter (Linn Walters) 10. 11:35 AM - Re: FS REM38E Spark Plugs (Barry) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter From: Bob Leffler I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel filter. It's not my area of expertise. I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side of the tunnel, taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken mine out twice with out removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks have gone as far as putting an access panel on both sides. David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you can have it installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not that big of deal to fabricate your own parts too. It only takes me 5-10 minutes to remove the fuel filter. Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of the tunnel with out having to take everything apart. This is important for those of us that have center consoles install. Bob Sent from my iPad > On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" wrote: > > > It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond inconvenient when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel filters, one on each side, in a more convenient location such as under pilot/copilot seat or the wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do this? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:55 AM PST US From: Carl Froehlich Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the tunnel cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling the fuel filter if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy. I found that the tunnel cover itself needs to be shortened to allow more clearance with tubing and such on the forward end. The cover is shorten enough so that I don't use the most forward screws. This one thing makes the cover removal/install much easier. Carl > On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > > I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel filter. It's not my area of expertise. > > I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side of the tunnel, taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken mine out twice with out removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks have gone as far as putting an access panel on both sides. > > David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you can have it installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not that big of deal to fabricate your own parts too. It only takes me 5-10 minutes to remove the fuel filter. > > Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of the tunnel with out having to take everything apart. This is important for those of us that have center consoles install. > > Bob > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" wrote: >> >> >> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond inconvenient when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel filters, one on each side, in a more convenient location such as under pilot/copilot seat or the wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do this? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:44 AM PST US From: Bob Leffler Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter There are more than one way to skin a cat...... The access panels allow me to inspect everything forward of the fuel valve. I can easily remove the filter and pump through this opening. I cut my cover at the fuel valve as to not require removing the forward cover unless something I find dictates it. For those of use that have center consoles, this allows us the flexibility of leaving the stack in place during an inspection. I then only have to remove the section aft of the cut. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 28, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote: Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the tunnel cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling the fuel filter if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy. I found that the tunnel cover itself needs to be shortened to allow more clearance with tubing and such on the forward end. The cover is shorten enough so that I don't use the most forward screws. This one thing makes the cover removal/install much easier. Carl > On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > > I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel filter. It's not my area of expertise. > > I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side of the tunnel, taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken mine out twice with out removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks have gone as far as putting an access panel on both sides. > > David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you can have it installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not that big of deal to fabricate your own parts too. It only takes me 5-10 minutes to remove the fuel filter. > > Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of the tunnel with out having to take everything apart. This is important for those of us that have center consoles install. > > Bob > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" wrote: >> >> >> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond inconvenient when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel filters, one on each side, in a more convenient location such as under pilot/copilot seat or the wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do this? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter From: Bob Condrey Another consideration is that the stock location is downstream of the shutoff valve. If the filters are upstream of the shutoff valve you'll have to deal with that also. Bob On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > There are more than one way to skin a cat...... > > The access panels allow me to inspect everything forward of the fuel > valve. I can easily remove the filter and pump through this opening. > > I cut my cover at the fuel valve as to not require removing the forward > cover unless something I find dictates it. > > For those of use that have center consoles, this allows us the flexibility > of leaving the stack in place during an inspection. > > I then only have to remove the section aft of the cut. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 28, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Carl Froehlich > wrote: > > carl.froehlich@verizon.net> > > Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the tunnel > cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling the fuel filter > if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy. > > I found that the tunnel cover itself needs to be shortened to allow more > clearance with tubing and such on the forward end. The cover is shorten > enough so that I don't use the most forward screws. This one thing makes > the cover removal/install much easier. > > Carl > > > On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > > > > > I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel filter. > It's not my area of expertise. > > > > I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side of the > tunnel, taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken mine out twice > with out removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks have gone as far as > putting an access panel on both sides. > > > > David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you can > have it installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not that big of > deal to fabricate your own parts too. It only takes me 5-10 minutes to > remove the fuel filter. > > > > Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of the > tunnel with out having to take everything apart. This is important for > those of us that have center consoles install. > > > > Bob > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" wrote: > >> > >> > >> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond > inconvenient when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel > filters, one on each side, in a more convenient location such as under > pilot/copilot seat or the wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do > this? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:48 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter Well, what does or doesn't need to be removed for the annual condition inspection is dictated by what access panels exist to allow inspection of components. If a side panel access is installed, there is no reason that the tunnel cover would ever need to be removed. Since I and a few others have Paul Grimstead's Control Approach rudder pedal system, which puts the rudder control arms through the tunnel cover, cover removal would involve disassembly of a primary control system, something that should be avoided for routine inspections. Thus a side panel access cover is needed in my particular "modified" RV-10. Keep in mind that what does or doesn't need to be inspected is governed solely by Part 43 Appendix D, not some one's arbitrary annual check list. As to one filter or two, keep in mind that many type certified aircraft do not have any filter between the tanks and the fuel servo inlet, and if they do have one, it is often placed downstream of the boost pump, rather than upstream as Van's has it. While filters could be put at the wing roots, that means twice the work to service, and you would need to be careful to locate well clear of the aileron pushrods travel. Kelly On 1/28/2014 4:54 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > > Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the tunnel cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling the fuel filter if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:37 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter Also, any debris like o-rings and such that the valve throws off will no longer be filtered. I came to the conclusion that the filter was positioned in a decent place, and that after checking it a few times and finding nothing, I was just going to stretch out my inspection interval of that filter, and make it somewhat also reliant on what I find in my regular sumpings of the tanks. The access panel is about all I'd bother doing to improve things. Tim On 1/28/2014 8:20 AM, Bob Condrey wrote: > Another consideration is that the stock location is downstream of the > shutoff valve. If the filters are upstream of the shutoff valve you'll > have to deal with that also. > Bob > > On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Bob Leffler > wrote: > > > > > There are more than one way to skin a cat...... > > The access panels allow me to inspect everything forward of the fuel > valve. I can easily remove the filter and pump through this opening. > > I cut my cover at the fuel valve as to not require removing the > forward cover unless something I find dictates it. > > For those of use that have center consoles, this allows us the > flexibility of leaving the stack in place during an inspection. > > I then only have to remove the section aft of the cut. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 28, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Carl Froehlich > > wrote: > > > > > Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the > tunnel cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling > the fuel filter if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy. > > I found that the tunnel cover itself needs to be shortened to allow > more clearance with tubing and such on the forward end. The cover > is shorten enough so that I don't use the most forward screws. This > one thing makes the cover removal/install much easier. > > Carl > > > On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Bob Leffler > wrote: > > > > > > > > I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel > filter. It's not my area of expertise. > > > > I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side > of the tunnel, taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken > mine out twice with out removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks > have gone as far as putting an access panel on both sides. > > > > David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you > can have it installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not > that big of deal to fabricate your own parts too. It only takes me > 5-10 minutes to remove the fuel filter. > > > > Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of > the tunnel with out having to take everything apart. This is > important for those of us that have center consoles install. > > > > Bob > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" > wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be > beyond inconvenient when inspection time comes around. What about > two fuel filters, one on each side, in a more convenient location > such as under pilot/copilot seat or the wing attach area? Any major > reasons NOT to do this? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743 > r to browse > nics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/" > target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ==== > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:35 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter On 1/28/2014 9:38 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Well, what does or doesn't need to be removed for the annual condition > inspection is dictated by what access panels exist to allow inspection > of components. > If a side panel access is installed, there is no reason that the > tunnel cover would ever need to be removed. Since I and a few others > have Paul Grimstead's Control Approach rudder pedal system, which puts > the rudder control arms through the tunnel cover, cover removal would > involve disassembly of a primary control system, something that should > be avoided for routine inspections. Thus a side panel access cover is > needed in my particular "modified" RV-10. I modified the rudder pedals to go through the side of the tunnel instead of through the cover. I also have a console from the tunnel cover up to the bottom of the instrument panel that will have to be removed so the side access panel is a really good mod .... that I'll do. > Keep in mind that what does or doesn't need to be inspected is > governed solely by Part 43 Appendix D, not some one's arbitrary annual > check list. I'd use the word 'guided' rather than 'governed' unless things have changed since I built my Pitts years ago. You can't go wrong using Part 43 liberally in our homebuilts. > > As to one filter or two, keep in mind that many type certified > aircraft do not have any filter between the tanks and the fuel servo > inlet, and if they do have one, it is often placed downstream of the > boost pump, rather than upstream as Van's has it. While filters could > be put at the wing roots, that means twice the work to service, and > you would need to be careful to locate well clear of the aileron > pushrods travel. The Vans filter fits nicely under the seats ...... between the tunnel and the fuselage side. I still might do that instead of the access panel. Linn > Kelly > > On 1/28/2014 4:54 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote: >> >> >> Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the >> tunnel cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling >> the fuel filter if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy. >> > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:39 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter Well, your Pitts probably had older operating limits language than what is standard today. While a plane today could have different language, my understanding of the standard ops limits requires you to use Part 43 Appendix D as a "minimum" checklist, same as it is for type certified aircraft. You can do a more thorough, more detailed checklist, but not less than Appendix D. One of the few sections of Part 43 that applies to amateur built aircraft. On 1/28/2014 8:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote: > >> Keep in mind that what does or doesn't need to be inspected is >> governed solely by Part 43 Appendix D, not some one's arbitrary >> annual check list. > I'd use the word 'guided' rather than 'governed' unless things have > changed since I built my Pitts years ago. You can't go wrong using > Part 43 liberally in our homebuilts. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:08 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relocating the fuel filter Thanks Kelly. It's taken me 35 years to get back to building ...... I have a lot of catching up to do!!! Linn On 1/28/2014 10:22 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Well, your Pitts probably had older operating limits language than > what is standard today. While a plane today could have different > language, my understanding of the standard ops limits requires you to > use Part 43 Appendix D as a "minimum" checklist, same as it is for > type certified aircraft. You can do a more thorough, more detailed > checklist, but not less than Appendix D. One of the few sections of > Part 43 that applies to amateur built aircraft. > > On 1/28/2014 8:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote: >> >>> Keep in mind that what does or doesn't need to be inspected is >>> governed solely by Part 43 Appendix D, not some one's arbitrary >>> annual check list. >> I'd use the word 'guided' rather than 'governed' unless things have >> changed since I built my Pitts years ago. You can't go wrong using >> Part 43 liberally in our homebuilts. > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:03 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: FS REM38E Spark Plugs From: "Barry" Spark Plugs Sold Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417786#417786 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.