Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:50 PM - Elevator Limits (Sean Stephens)
2. 08:19 PM - Re: Elevator Limits (David Clifford)
3. 08:59 PM - Re: Elevator Limits (Justin Jones)
4. 09:14 PM - Re: Elevator Limits (charliewaffles)
5. 09:35 PM - Re: Elevator Limits (Dick & Vicki Sipp)
6. 09:58 PM - Re: Elevator Limits (Justin Jones)
7. 10:17 PM - Re: Elevator Limits (David Clifford)
8. 11:32 PM - Re: Elevator Limits (Bob Turner)
Message 1
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I'm in the process of adjusting my pushrods and elevator stops for panel
clearance and travel limits. I've reviewed all the archived posts on
adding stops and other techniques for getting panel clearance. I think
I have a good handle on that.
What I was curious about is the travel limits of the elevator. In
particular the elevator up limits. I assume that because of the nose
heavy aspect of the RV-10 that one would want to make sure that the up
travel limit of the elevator is at the higher end of the limits? I'm
imagining that with the loading at the forward most CG you'd want max
throw there for landing flare?
I know I am going to have to add a stop to prevent panel interference,
but as that only effects the down travel, as long as I am at or above
the elevator down limit of 20 degrees I should be fine? I'm imagining
the down limit being important for stall recovery and with the
relatively easy stall recovery of the rv-10 that the lower limit of 20
degrees is ok?
So long story short, is it better to be at the higher side of the up
elevator limits and ok to be at the lower side of the down limits?
-Sean #40303 (light at the end of the tunnel phase)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Limits |
Mine were adjusted per plans when I built. I am in Phase 1 testing and found last
week when I was loaded up forward CG, I had trouble getting the nose up in
the landing flair. I used full up elevator trim to help but still landed three
point. Part of the reason is I have short legs and like the seat track pin in
the third position aft of front. With the big rotary knob on the Crow seat belt
harness, the stick grip hits that first and can not go to the full aft stop
limit. I adjusted the control tube for more nose up authority in this position
however I am going to come up with pedal extensions to get the seat further
back.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Stephens" <sean@stephensville.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:49:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Limits
I'm in the process of adjusting my pushrods and elevator stops for panel
clearance and travel limits. I've reviewed all the archived posts on
adding stops and other techniques for getting panel clearance. I think
I have a good handle on that.
What I was curious about is the travel limits of the elevator. In
particular the elevator up limits. I assume that because of the nose
heavy aspect of the RV-10 that one would want to make sure that the up
travel limit of the elevator is at the higher end of the limits? I'm
imagining that with the loading at the forward most CG you'd want max
throw there for landing flare?
I know I am going to have to add a stop to prevent panel interference,
but as that only effects the down travel, as long as I am at or above
the elevator down limit of 20 degrees I should be fine? I'm imagining
the down limit being important for stall recovery and with the
relatively easy stall recovery of the rv-10 that the lower limit of 20
degrees is ok?
So long story short, is it better to be at the higher side of the up
elevator limits and ok to be at the lower side of the down limits?
-Sean #40303 (light at the end of the tunnel phase)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Limits |
Has anyone looked at adding ballast back by the tail? or how about
moving the battery further aft? Seems that this issue can also be
remedied with a further aft CG. Even a LB or two ballast in the tail
can make a HUGE difference! Obviously do the W&B calculations, but you
may be able to add a negligible amount of weight to the airframe in the
tail section and make it work for you. I am sure it has much more docile
handling when the CG is further aft.
Safe flying!
On Feb 26, 2014, at 7:19 PM, David Clifford <davidsoutpost@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Mine were adjusted per plans when I built. I am in Phase 1 testing
and found last week when I was loaded up forward CG, I had trouble
getting the nose up in the landing flair. I used full up elevator trim
to help but still landed three point. Part of the reason is I have
short legs and like the seat track pin in the third position aft of
front. With the big rotary knob on the Crow seat belt harness, the
stick grip hits that first and can not go to the full aft stop limit. I
adjusted the control tube for more nose up authority in this position
however I am going to come up with pedal extensions to get the seat
further back.
>
> From: "Sean Stephens" <sean@stephensville.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:49:11 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Limits
>
<sean@stephensville.com>
>
> I'm in the process of adjusting my pushrods and elevator stops for
panel
> clearance and travel limits. I've reviewed all the archived posts on
> adding stops and other techniques for getting panel clearance. I
think
> I have a good handle on that.
>
> What I was curious about is the travel limits of the elevator. In
> particular the elevator up limits. I assume that because of the nose
> heavy aspect of the RV-10 that one would want to make sure that the up
> travel limit of the elevator is at the higher end of the limits? I'm
> imagining that with the loading at the forward most CG you'd want max
> throw there for landing flare?
>
> I know I am going to have to add a stop to prevent panel interference,
> but as that only effects the down travel, as long as I am at or above
> the elevator down limit of 20 degrees I should be fine? I'm imagining
> the down limit being important for stall recovery and with the
> relatively easy stall recovery of the rv-10 that the lower limit of 20
> degrees is ok?
>
> So long story short, is it better to be at the higher side of the up
> elevator limits and ok to be at the lower side of the down limits?
>
> -Sean #40303 (light at the end of the tunnel phase)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Limits |
The mothership runs with ballast in the baggage compartment most of the time. I
have a bag with 20lbs of Shot in there now. I started with 40lbs, for solo work,
but since I have added a survival/maintenance bag that weight 20lbs, I reduced
the shot. Definitely helps with the landing flare. Some people use water
jugs as they can just be dumped out and refilled as needed if the scenario dictates
a change at a remote location.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419411#419411
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Limits |
An item that has not been mentioned so far is the flap position for
landing.
With a forward cg (solo or two light front seat passengers) a half flap
landing can be more comfortable, full up trim probably not required in
this configuration.
I use full flaps on landing 95% of the time. I always have 15 lbs. or
so in the back of the baggage compartment. This does require (in my
airplane) full up trim and about 2-3 pounds aft stick pressure to hold
65-70 KIAS on final. Full aft stick on roll out to hold the nose off
does not require unusual aft pressure.
I rigged the elevator as best I could to the factory spec limits.
Standard 4 point harness, no crotch strap (control stop is limiting). I
have always felt a concern for any airplane that had something limiting
the controls other than the design stops (i.e. panel or other
obstruction). All of the airplanes will be different to a degree based
on empty CG.
Oh, on takeoff like Van says, I use half flap on all the RVs.
It=99s cool to get off the runway before anybody else accept the
Alaska bush guys.
Dick Sipp
RV4 750 hours sold
RV12 50 hours built for friend
RV10 530 hours and counting
From: David Clifford
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator Limits
Mine were adjusted per plans when I built. I am in Phase 1 testing and
found last week when I was loaded up forward CG, I had trouble getting
the nose up in the landing flair. I used full up elevator trim to help
but still landed three point. Part of the reason is I have short legs
and like the seat track pin in the third position aft of front. With
the big rotary knob on the Crow seat belt harness, the stick grip hits
that first and can not go to the full aft stop limit. I adjusted the
control tube for more nose up authority in this position however I am
going to come up with pedal extensions to get the seat further back.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: "Sean Stephens" <sean@stephensville.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:49:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Limits
I'm in the process of adjusting my pushrods and elevator stops for panel
clearance and travel limits. I've reviewed all the archived posts on
adding stops and other techniques for getting panel clearance. I think
I have a good handle on that.
What I was curious about is the travel limits of the elevator. In
particular the elevator up limits. I assume that because of the nose
heavy aspect of the RV-10 that one would want to make sure that the up
travel limit of the elevator is at the higher end of the limits? I'm
imagining that with the loading at the forward most CG you'd want max
throw there for landing flare?
I know I am going to have to add a stop to prevent panel interference,
but as that only effects the down travel, as long as I am at or above
the elevator down limit of 20 degrees I should be fine? I'm imagining
the down limit being important for stall recovery and with the
relatively easy stall recovery of the rv-10 that the lower limit of 20
degrees is ok?
So long story short, is it better to be at the higher side of the up
elevator limits and ok to be at the lower side of the down limits?
-Sean #40303 (light at the end of the tunnel phase)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Limits |
You bring up a good point on flap position. The less flaps one has in,
the higher the angle of attack will be to produce the same amount of
lift. The catch with this is runway length. I fly C-130s and on our no
flap landings are fast and we have to be careful not to strike the tail
on landing during the flare. The extra speed and higher angle of attack
is required to produce enough lift. This being said, keep an eye on
your runway length required if you intend on using low or no flap
settings.
Remember that there are some cracks that Vans is tracking in the RV8
series horizontal stabilizers. Some owners are finding this but most are
not. Be sure to take into account the stress that the stabilizer will
see. It is an inverted wing and has stresses as such during all phases
of flight.
I am building a bush caddy L164 for the bush in Alaska. Slow flying
bird with huge amounts of lift. The takeoff run at a max gross of 2550
is just 200 feet! Light takeoffs are shorter.
On Feb 26, 2014, at 8:35 PM, Dick & Vicki Sipp <rsipp@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> An item that has not been mentioned so far is the flap position for
landing.
>
> With a forward cg (solo or two light front seat passengers) a half
flap landing can be more comfortable, full up trim probably not required
in this configuration.
>
> I use full flaps on landing 95% of the time. I always have 15 lbs. or
so in the back of the baggage compartment. This does require (in my
airplane) full up trim and about 2-3 pounds aft stick pressure to hold
65-70 KIAS on final. Full aft stick on roll out to hold the nose off
does not require unusual aft pressure.
>
> I rigged the elevator as best I could to the factory spec limits.
Standard 4 point harness, no crotch strap (control stop is limiting). I
have always felt a concern for any airplane that had something limiting
the controls other than the design stops (i.e. panel or other
obstruction). All of the airplanes will be different to a degree based
on empty CG.
>
> Oh, on takeoff like Van says, I use half flap on all the RVs. It=92s
cool to get off the runway before anybody else accept the Alaska bush
guys.<wlEmoticon-smilewithtongueout[1].png>
>
>
> Dick Sipp
> RV4 750 hours sold
> RV12 50 hours built for friend
> RV10 530 hours and counting
>
>
>
> From: David Clifford
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:19 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator Limits
>
> Mine were adjusted per plans when I built. I am in Phase 1 testing
and found last week when I was loaded up forward CG, I had trouble
getting the nose up in the landing flair. I used full up elevator trim
to help but still landed three point. Part of the reason is I have
short legs and like the seat track pin in the third position aft of
front. With the big rotary knob on the Crow seat belt harness, the
stick grip hits that first and can not go to the full aft stop limit. I
adjusted the control tube for more nose up authority in this position
however I am going to come up with pedal extensions to get the seat
further back.
>
> From: "Sean Stephens" <sean@stephensville.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:49:11 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Limits
>
<sean@stephensville.com>
>
> I'm in the process of adjusting my pushrods and elevator stops for
panel
> clearance and travel limits. I've reviewed all the archived posts on
> adding stops and other techniques for getting panel clearance. I
think
> I have a good handle on that.
>
> What I was curious about is the travel limits of the elevator. In
> particular the elevator up limits. I assume that because of the nose
> heavy aspect of the RV-10 that one would want to make sure that the up
> travel limit of the elevator is at the higher end of the limits? I'm
> imagining that with the loading at the forward most CG you'd want max
> throw there for landing flare?
>
> I know I am going to have to add a stop to prevent panel interference,
> but as that only effects the down travel, as long as I am at or above
> the elevator down limit of 20 degrees I should be fine? I'm imagining
> the down limit being important for stall recovery and with the
> relatively easy stall recovery of the rv-10 that the lower limit of 20
> degrees is ok?
>
> So long story short, is it better to be at the higher side of the up
> elevator limits and ok to be at the lower side of the down limits?
>
> -Sean #40303 (light at the end of the tunnel phase)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Limits |
No Kidding. This is phase one TESTING!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Jones" <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:57:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator Limits
Has anyone looked at adding ballast back by the tail? or how about moving the battery
further aft? Seems that this issue can also be remedied with a further
aft CG. Even a LB or two ballast in the tail can make a HUGE difference! Obviously
do the W&B calculations, but you may be able to add a negligible amount of
weight to the airframe in the tail section and make it work for you. I am sure
it has much more docile handling when the CG is further aft.
Safe flying!
On Feb 26, 2014, at 7:19 PM, David Clifford < davidsoutpost@comcast.net > wrote:
Mine were adjusted per plans when I built. I am in Phase 1 testing and found last
week when I was loaded up forward CG, I had trouble getting the nose up in
the landing flair. I used full up elevator trim to help but still landed three
point. Part of the reason is I have short legs and like the seat track pin in
the third position aft of front. With the big rotary knob on the Crow seat belt
harness, the stick grip hits that first and can not go to the full aft stop
limit. I adjusted the control tube for more nose up authority in this position
however I am going to come up with pedal extensions to get the seat further
back.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Stephens" < sean@stephensville.com >
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:49:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Limits
I'm in the process of adjusting my pushrods and elevator stops for panel
clearance and travel limits. I've reviewed all the archived posts on
adding stops and other techniques for getting panel clearance. I think
I have a good handle on that.
What I was curious about is the travel limits of the elevator. In
particular the elevator up limits. I assume that because of the nose
heavy aspect of the RV-10 that one would want to make sure that the up
travel limit of the elevator is at the higher end of the limits? I'm
imagining that with the loading at the forward most CG you'd want max
throw there for landing flare?
I know I am going to have to add a stop to prevent panel interference,
but as that only effects the down travel, as long as I am at or above
the elevator down limit of 20 degrees I should be fine? I'm imagining
the down limit being important for stall recovery and with the
relatively easy stall recovery of the rv-10 that the lower limit of 20
degrees is ok?
So long story short, is it better to be at the higher side of the up
elevator limits and ok to be at the lower side of the down limits?
-Sean #40303 (light at the end of the tunnel phase)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Limits |
I have the seat in the second from the front notch, and aft stick is limited by
the control stop - not me or the seat belt. Anything limiting control throw is
just not acceptable to me.
I carry 20 lbs of water in the baggage area when flying solo. Doubles as emergency
supply, and easy to pour out if I take on rear seat passengers.
Always check c.g. at zero fuel. If you're at the limit at takeoff you'll be out
of limits on landing. Vans just gives you an average moment arm for the front
seats, but I calculate cg using the actual seat location.
BTW, not trimming full nose up will give you a bit more nose up elevator authority;
of course, it will take more force on the stick.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419421#419421
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