Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:06 AM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Bob Condrey)
2. 04:09 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Bob Condrey)
3. 05:41 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Carl Froehlich)
4. 06:26 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Kelly McMullen)
5. 07:17 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (David Leikam)
6. 07:25 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Rocketman1988)
7. 07:38 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Rocketman1988)
8. 08:06 AM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (woxofswa)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Berck E. Nash)
10. 08:31 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Tim Olson)
11. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Justin Jones)
12. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Jack Phillips)
13. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Bob Condrey)
14. 10:34 AM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Bob Turner)
15. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Justin Jones)
16. 10:43 AM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Bob Turner)
17. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Jesse Saint)
18. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Dave Saylor)
19. 01:57 PM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Bill Watson)
20. 02:05 PM - Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. (Bill Watson)
21. 02:38 PM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Bob Turner)
22. 02:59 PM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Jesse Saint)
23. 05:19 PM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Kelly McMullen)
24. 05:34 PM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Bob Turner)
25. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: Archer wingtip antenna (Kelly McMullen)
26. 06:46 PM - Re: Archer wingtip antenna (woxofswa)
27. 11:03 PM - Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
28. 11:07 PM - Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
When I did mine I had the same concern and talked with Bob A. - he said
close but not touching. I had about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap as I recall. Also
important, route the wiring along the leading edge as directed. His nav
antennas are great when installed exactly per directions!
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
>
> The Archer instructions say to mount the Ant as far forward as possible,
> but I am concerned about interference from the heat shield foil around the
> landing light area.
> Any suggestions appreciated.
> TIA
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF
> complete.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419544#419544
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
Minimal is to prime only the non-alclad aluminum. The limits priming to
parts you make from the extruded angle and stock. Skins, ribs and the
stamped out parts are all alclad. Don't worry about the edges.
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, Berck E. Nash <flyboy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
>
> Hi there. I've just started on an RV-10 and have a few questions that
> searching has not yielded answers to. I know everyone loves priming
> questions, but I really have tried to search for the answers first.
>
> I've decided to only prime things that absolutely must be primed, but
> I'm having trouble figuring out which things those are. I've read in
> some places that "mating surfaces" must be primed. Is that all mating
> surfaces? Everywhere a skin touches a rib? Or is this just mating
> surfaces where one of the parts is not alclad?
>
> Is everything that isn't alclad obviously not alclad? For instance, the
> VS-1014 spar caps look different from most of the sheet metal. Is it
> alclad? Does it need to be primed? Or should it be primed anyway
> because it sits on top of the VS rear spar?
>
> What about the edges of everything? Clearly there's no alclad there...
> should I be worried about that? I really don't want to prime where it's
> not necessary (time, weight, and the aircraft is going to be in Colorado
> where nothing ever corrodes), but finding guidance for what's required
> is tough.
>
> Thanks,
> Berck
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
If you going to go to the trouble of priming all those hard to prime
non-alclad parts then prime everything. The additional work is minimal
considering the total build. The other consideration is even if you
don=99t view the need to prime at some point you may want to sell
and this may make a difference to the new buyer.
I never thought I would sell my RV-8A =93 but it is now flying
with a happy new owner.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Condrey
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions.
Minimal is to prime only the non-alclad aluminum. The limits priming to
parts you make from the extruded angle and stock. Skins, ribs and the
stamped out parts are all alclad. Don't worry about the edges.
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, Berck E. Nash <flyboy@gmail.com> wrote:
<javascript:;> >
Hi there. I've just started on an RV-10 and have a few questions that
searching has not yielded answers to. I know everyone loves priming
questions, but I really have tried to search for the answers first.
I've decided to only prime things that absolutely must be primed, but
I'm having trouble figuring out which things those are. I've read in
some places that "mating surfaces" must be primed. Is that all mating
surfaces? Everywhere a skin touches a rib? Or is this just mating
surfaces where one of the parts is not alclad?
Is everything that isn't alclad obviously not alclad? For instance, the
VS-1014 spar caps look different from most of the sheet metal. Is it
alclad? Does it need to be primed? Or should it be primed anyway
because it sits on top of the VS rear spar?
What about the edges of everything? Clearly there's no alclad there...
should I be worried about that? I really don't want to prime where it's
not necessary (time, weight, and the aircraft is going to be in Colorado
where nothing ever corrodes), but finding guidance for what's required
is tough.
Thanks,
Berck
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
Oh boy, here go the primer wars!
The contrarian view is that primer just adds weight to the overall
aircraft. There are many Cessnas flying from the early 50s that had no
primer used at all.
Priming any steel that isn't already powder coated will prevent
dissimilar metal corrosion. Takes very little effort to prime extruded
aluminum parts with rattle can self etching primer. Only reason to prime
any alclad is if your scotchbrite efforts remove the alclad layer.
Mow, if you base the plane in Florida, Kalifornia and other corrosive
atmospheres, priming might be desirable. Resale would be the last reason
in my mind to do priming, since most builders are doing it to have the
plane for themselves. If you are worried about how the plane will sell
when you either quit flying or start a new project, maybe this isn't the
right project to build in the first place.
On 3/1/2014 6:41 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> If you going to go to the trouble of priming all those hard to prime
> non-alclad parts then prime everything. The additional work is
> minimal considering the total build. The other consideration is even
> if you dont view the need to prime at some point you may want to sell
> and this may make a difference to the new buyer.
>
> I never thought I would sell my RV-8A but it is now flying with a
> happy new owner.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bob Condrey
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 01, 2014 7:09 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions.
>
> Minimal is to prime only the non-alclad aluminum. The limits priming
> to parts you make from the extruded angle and stock. Skins, ribs and
> the stamped out parts are all alclad. Don't worry about the edges.
>
> Bob
>
> On Saturday, March 1, 2014, Berck E. Nash <flyboy@gmail.com
> <mailto:flyboy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <javascript:;>>
>
> Hi there. I've just started on an RV-10 and have a few questions that
> searching has not yielded answers to. I know everyone loves priming
> questions, but I really have tried to search for the answers first.
>
> I've decided to only prime things that absolutely must be primed, but
> I'm having trouble figuring out which things those are. I've read in
> some places that "mating surfaces" must be primed. Is that all mating
> surfaces? Everywhere a skin touches a rib? Or is this just mating
> surfaces where one of the parts is not alclad?
>
> Is everything that isn't alclad obviously not alclad? For instance, the
> VS-1014 spar caps look different from most of the sheet metal. Is it
> alclad? Does it need to be primed? Or should it be primed anyway
> because it sits on top of the VS rear spar?
>
> What about the edges of everything? Clearly there's no alclad there...
> should I be worried about that? I really don't want to prime where it's
> not necessary (time, weight, and the aircraft is going to be in Colorado
> where nothing ever corrodes), but finding guidance for what's required
> is tough.
>
> Thanks,
> Berck
>
> ==========
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
I used T9-BOESHIELD on most parts and skins rather than prime. Good
protection. Penetrates very well. Can easily be applied after assembly
of parts. Just spray on and lightly wipe excess off. Little affect on
weight. Easy.
ACF-50 works the same.
http://boeshield.com
Dave Leikam
On Mar 1, 2014, at 8:25 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> Oh boy, here go the primer wars!
> The contrarian view is that primer just adds weight to the overall
aircraft. There are many Cessnas flying from the early 50s that had no
primer used at all.
> Priming any steel that isn't already powder coated will prevent
dissimilar metal corrosion. Takes very little effort to prime extruded
aluminum parts with rattle can self etching primer. Only reason to prime
any alclad is if your scotchbrite efforts remove the alclad layer.
> Mow, if you base the plane in Florida, Kalifornia and other corrosive
atmospheres, priming might be desirable. Resale would be the last reason
in my mind to do priming, since most builders are doing it to have the
plane for themselves. If you are worried about how the plane will sell
when you either quit flying or start a new project, maybe this isn't the
right project to build in the first place.
>
> On 3/1/2014 6:41 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>
>> If you going to go to the trouble of priming all those hard to prime
non-alclad parts then prime everything. The additional work is minimal
considering the total build. The other consideration is even if you
don=92t view the need to prime at some point you may want to sell and
this may make a difference to the new buyer.
>>
>> I never thought I would sell my RV-8A ' but it is now flying with a
happy new owner.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bob Condrey
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 01, 2014 7:09 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Greetings ... and minimalist priming
questions.
>>
>> Minimal is to prime only the non-alclad aluminum. The limits priming
to parts you make from the extruded angle and stock. Skins, ribs and
the stamped out parts are all alclad. Don't worry about the edges.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Saturday, March 1, 2014, Berck E. Nash <flyboy@gmail.com
<mailto:flyboy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
<javascript:;>>
>>
>> Hi there. I've just started on an RV-10 and have a few questions
that
>> searching has not yielded answers to. I know everyone loves priming
>> questions, but I really have tried to search for the answers first.
>>
>> I've decided to only prime things that absolutely must be primed, but
>> I'm having trouble figuring out which things those are. I've read in
>> some places that "mating surfaces" must be primed. Is that all
mating
>> surfaces? Everywhere a skin touches a rib? Or is this just mating
>> surfaces where one of the parts is not alclad?
>>
>> Is everything that isn't alclad obviously not alclad? For instance,
the
>> VS-1014 spar caps look different from most of the sheet metal. Is it
>> alclad? Does it need to be primed? Or should it be primed anyway
>> because it sits on top of the VS rear spar?
>>
>> What about the edges of everything? Clearly there's no alclad
there...
>> should I be worried about that? I really don't want to prime where
it's
>> not necessary (time, weight, and the aircraft is going to be in
Colorado
>> where nothing ever corrodes), but finding guidance for what's
required
>> is tough.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Berck
>>
>> ==========
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
I decided to prime everything. Looking back, now, if I did it again, I probably
would use the Alodine process or not prime at all. People speak of the minimal
time involved...well, it may be a minimal PERCENTAGE of the total build time
but that is still a BUNCH of hours. And you have to factor in the time it
takes for the primer to dry, too...
Also, if you are planning to use SW P60 G2, which is what Van's uses, call SW and
talk to them about it. That primer, as they will tell you, is designed to
topcoat within 4 HOURS, and although it may enhance corrosion resistance, it was
not designed to be used as a stand alone protectant. Call them and talk to
one of their techs...
There is no question that a properly primed metal will last longer than an unprimed
one, so the question becomes, "Do you want an airplane that will last 60
years or 100 years?"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419559#419559
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
I decided to prime everything. Looking back, now, if I did it again, I probably
would use the Alodine process or not prime at all. People speak of the minimal
time involved...well, it may be a minimal PERCENTAGE of the total build time
but that is still a BUNCH of hours. And you have to factor in the time it
takes for the primer to dry, too...
Also, if you are planning to use SW P60 G2, which is what Van's uses, call SW and
talk to them about it. That primer, as they will tell you, is designed to
topcoat within 4 HOURS, and although it may enhance corrosion resistance, it was
not designed to be used as a stand alone protectant. Call them and talk to
one of their techs...
There is no question that a properly primed metal will last longer than an unprimed
one, so the question becomes, "Do you want an airplane that will last 60
years or 100 years?"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419560#419560
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no problem, but the
landing light is going to be problematic as I am running HID.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
Sorry to rekindle the debate, but I really do appreciate the input. So
those of you that are not priming are not even priming mating surfaces?
If this is acceptable, this is what I'd like to do. I don't care about
resale value, as I'm not planning on selling. Even if things don't go
as I plan and I need to sell for some reason, I'm willing to take the
"loss". For all I know there are buyers that would prefer to have
non-primed aircraft without the extra 3-8 pounds.
Determining which scratches in the alclad are deep enough to worry about
is the next question. I know I need to smooth any inadvertent scratches
I make with scotchbrite. Is it obvious if you go through the alcad?
Should I prime anything I scotchbrite?
On 03/01/2014 05:09 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
> Minimal is to prime only the non-alclad aluminum. The limits priming to
> parts you make from the extruded angle and stock. Skins, ribs and the
> stamped out parts are all alclad. Don't worry about the edges.
>
> Bob
>
> On Saturday, March 1, 2014, Berck E. Nash <flyboy@gmail.com
> <mailto:flyboy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <javascript:;>>
>
> Hi there. I've just started on an RV-10 and have a few questions that
> searching has not yielded answers to. I know everyone loves priming
> questions, but I really have tried to search for the answers first.
>
> I've decided to only prime things that absolutely must be primed, but
> I'm having trouble figuring out which things those are. I've read in
> some places that "mating surfaces" must be primed. Is that all mating
> surfaces? Everywhere a skin touches a rib? Or is this just mating
> surfaces where one of the parts is not alclad?
>
> Is everything that isn't alclad obviously not alclad? For instance, the
> VS-1014 spar caps look different from most of the sheet metal. Is it
> alclad? Does it need to be primed? Or should it be primed anyway
> because it sits on top of the VS rear spar?
>
> What about the edges of everything? Clearly there's no alclad there...
> should I be worried about that? I really don't want to prime where it's
> not necessary (time, weight, and the aircraft is going to be in Colorado
> where nothing ever corrodes), but finding guidance for what's required
> is tough.
>
> Thanks,
> Berck
>
> ==========
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
There is something I'm not sure of....are the dull aluminum wing ribs
alclad too, or
is it just the shiny ones? I wasn't sure, actually, so I always primed
everything
that wasn't shiny.
On the -14 I've been priming with Akzo again, but not alodining (other
than a few
small parts made from stock and such). I did love the alodining on the
-10 and if
I were keeping a plane forever I'd do it I guess, but the -14 isn't
going to be my
forever plane. I scuff and spray with Akzo. The only real hassle is
the 30 minute
post-mixing time before you can spray.
I just this week decided to get around that for some small prime jobs by
buying
some actual Zinc Chromate primer. In tests I've seen in past years,
Zinc Chromate
was actually one of the better corrosion preventers. So I got a couple
cans for
real small parts that hold up my progress if I have to wait for
priming. There
are times that wanting to prime means getting a lot of parts ready at
once or
you hit a delay, and sometimes I just don't want that hassle anymore.
So for
me it'll be Zinc Chromate in those areas.
I agree on the wash primer thing....it's not a sealer, so I'd rather
either not
use anything or pick a better product. And the only places I would not
use anything are maybe if you have the inside of skins that are alclad...and
you still prime the mating surfaces. To me, a totally unprimed plane would
not be one I'd be interested in buying, if I was shopping around. If at
least
the mating surfaces were primed, I'd consider it. But you can't inspect
those mating areas real easily and that's exactly where moisture and
everything else will collect and stay. So I wouldn't skip that part.
So Berck, your thoughts are basically the same as mine as to what "looks"
like alclad. But for me, I'd at least get a couple cans of primer and spray
the mating surfaces.
BTW: Yeah, people talk about Zinc Chromate as an awful thing from
a toxicity standpoint. I wouldn't want to do the whole airframe with it,
but for small areas, I'm not going to worry. Use a respirator for sure.
I have tried the rattle can self-etching primers of a couple brands and
found
that they were horrible from a durability standpoint. To me, they're
worthless. Akzo is tough, and after 8 years on the RV-10 it's looking
great still. If you do go rattle-can self-etching, I'd topcoat it with
something
tougher for sure....it also is not a sealer.
One more tip...the Zinc Chromate I got on skygeek.com and paid only
$4 per can for.
Tim
On 3/1/2014 6:09 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
> Minimal is to prime only the non-alclad aluminum. The limits priming
> to parts you make from the extruded angle and stock. Skins, ribs and
> the stamped out parts are all alclad. Don't worry about the edges.
>
> Bob
>
> On Saturday
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
HID light are great, but I would seriously consider LED lighting.
Minimal draw and with the new emitters and drivers, we are getting more
light with less amperage draw from the system. This is being done all
while enjoying much longer life, and less weight at a lower cost. The
Squadron series of lights made by baja designs weigh just 12oz and put
off 4300 lumens of light at 5000K. Here is a write up of them going
into an rv
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=105248&page=1
This is a great write up and people on this thread are talking about
using the same emitters from the new LED flashlights as well. Talk
about a low budget long life lighting solution! The Squadron lights can
be had for $260 each. The Cree XM-L emitters they use are top notch and
will likely last for longer than the airframe.The write-up also has very
impressive pictures of the lights running in the RV wingtips at night
and shows how they light up the runway. Since LEDs offer low amperage
draw, you can use a simple 12V flasher for WigWags if you want that
option. You cant do that with HID because of the time it takes the light
to warm up after voltage is applied.
Love the experimental market and the ability to use cutting edge
technology in our planes!
Justin
On Mar 1, 2014, at 7:06 AM, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no
problem, but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am
running HID.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF
complete.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
The question for me was weight. As has been mentioned, Cessna did not prime
anything back in the 40's and 50's. In 2002, I looked carefully throughout
my 1947 Cessna 140, and found no priming and no corrosion, even after 55
years.
When I built my Pietenpol Air Camper, I primed the aluminum cowling with
PolyFiber's epoxy primer, which I believe is one of the very best for
providing nearly bulletproof protection, as well as a good surface to paint.
I was amazed at how much weight the primer added. With epoxy primer, very
little solvent evaporates, instead the epoxy cures like any other epoxy.
Hence, the weight of the can of primer is pretty close to the weight of the
cured primer on your airplane, and it is substantial. If all surfaces of a
plane the size of an RV10 were primed with epoxy primer, you could easily
add 60 to 80 lbs to the airframe
My RV4 (I was not the builder) was not primed and has been flying for 27
years now, with no corrosion. It is also one of the lightest RV4's around,
weighing just 924 lbs empty (Van's prototype weighed 908, without the
electric flaps and electric trim that mine has). Even with only 150 hp it
easily outruns heavier RV4's with 180 hp engines. So weight matters.
Now all I need to do is get back to work on my RV10.
Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
RV10 #40610
Tail done, Wings done, need to order the fuselage kit
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rocketman1988
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 10:25 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions.
I decided to prime everything. Looking back, now, if I did it again, I
probably would use the Alodine process or not prime at all. People speak of
the minimal time involved...well, it may be a minimal PERCENTAGE of the
total build time but that is still a BUNCH of hours. And you have to factor
in the time it takes for the primer to dry, too...
Also, if you are planning to use SW P60 G2, which is what Van's uses, call
SW and talk to them about it. That primer, as they will tell you, is
designed to topcoat within 4 HOURS, and although it may enhance corrosion
resistance, it was not designed to be used as a stand alone protectant.
Call them and talk to one of their techs...
There is no question that a properly primed metal will last longer than an
unprimed one, so the question becomes, "Do you want an airplane that will
last 60 years or 100 years?"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419559#419559
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
HID isn't a problem - I did them the same as other wiring on my first
RV-10. I could hear a slight amount of white noise hiss during the startup
but quiet after that. I suspect the noise was from the ballast but never
bothered to investigate since it wasn't a big deal.I concur with the post
on considering LEDs but you may need to deal with some noise with some of
those products. Most use small switching power supplies and if not
shielded well you'll get noise.
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no problem,
> but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am running HID.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF
> complete.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
Lots of opinions!
I did prime; if I were doing it again, I would not. It did take a lot of time,
mostly in the prep work, not the actual painting. I didn't have a permanent paint
booth so every batch required a lot of set up/take down time.
I would spray ACF50 or similar every few years. That stuff gets everywhere (paint
prior to spraying ACF50). I live in CA but away from the coast where the weather
is dry most of the year.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419576#419576
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
HID are great lights! You just can=92t do wigwag if you want to. The
noise is an issue for some, not all, of the LED users. By shielding,
using ferrite filters, and grounding, these noises can be dealt with.
On Mar 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Bob Condrey <condreyb@gmail.com> wrote:
> HID isn't a problem - I did them the same as other wiring on my first
RV-10. I could hear a slight amount of white noise hiss during the
startup but quiet after that. I suspect the noise was from the ballast
but never bothered to investigate since it wasn't a big deal.I concur
with the post on considering LEDs but you may need to deal with some
noise with some of those products. Most use small switching power
supplies and if not shielded well you'll get noise.
>
> Bob
>
> On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no
problem, but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am
running HID.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF
complete.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
Okay, I'm a contrarian. I ignored the instructions, mounted the VOR antenna back
about 8 or 10 " from the heat foil; I ran the lighting wires inside the rib
as far forward as possible, then directly out to the lights. Performance is fine;
always get ILS signals; VOR's probably not quite as far out as an external
antenna. Like the other Bob, I have an HID light and can hear hiss on start
up only. And, I also have heard a lot of RF from some LED light's power supplies,
so testing is necessary.
I presume you are talking about the VOR. If you meant the Archer com antenna, then
you definitely want to move it back to the thickest part of the wing, so you
can bend it down and get the largest possible vertical component in the element
that carries the most current - the one closest to the ground plane.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419578#419578
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
You can wigwag the hid's. You just need to give them some warmup time first.
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 1, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com> wrot
e:
>
> HID are great lights! You just can=99t do wigwag if you want to. T
he noise is an issue for some, not all, of the LED users. By shielding, usi
ng ferrite filters, and grounding, these noises can be dealt with.
>
>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Bob Condrey <condreyb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> HID isn't a problem - I did them the same as other wiring on my first RV-
10. I could hear a slight amount of white noise hiss during the startup but
quiet after that. I suspect the noise was from the ballast but never bothe
red to investigate since it wasn't a big deal.I concur with the post on cons
idering LEDs but you may need to deal with some noise with some of those pro
ducts. Most use small switching power supplies and if not shielded well you
'll get noise.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no problem
, but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am running HID.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Myron Nelson
>>> Mesa, AZ
>>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF compl
ete.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> ==========
>>> MS -
>>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> e -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
>>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
I'm using a XeVision flasher that has a 30 second warm-up for the HIDs.
Works great and was all that was really available a couple years ago. It
makes a clunk-clunk sound like an old truck turn signal but I don't mind
it. Now I see Duckworks has one for HIDs too.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>wrote
:
> You can wigwag the hid's. You just need to give them some warmup time
> first.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 1, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
>
> HID are great lights! You just can=99t do wigwag if you want to.
The noise
> is an issue for some, not all, of the LED users. By shielding, using
> ferrite filters, and grounding, these noises can be dealt with.
>
> On Mar 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Bob Condrey <condreyb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> HID isn't a problem - I did them the same as other wiring on my first
> RV-10. I could hear a slight amount of white noise hiss during the start
up
> but quiet after that. I suspect the noise was from the ballast but never
> bothered to investigate since it wasn't a big deal.I concur with the post
> on considering LEDs but you may need to deal with some noise with some of
> those products. Most use small switching power supplies and if not
> shielded well you'll get noise.
>
> Bob
>
> On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no problem
,
>> but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am running HID.
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF
>> complete.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/ <http://forums.matronics.com/>">http
://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution>">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/cont
ribution>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>
> *
>
> *
>
===========
onics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
Yes, the Bob A. Nav antenna works fine in the RV10's tips. Conversely,
the Bob A. Comm antenna will work, but with limitations that I've
concluded make it unsuitable for primary or secondary comm.
I followed the instructions very closely. In particular I made sure I
had as much of a vertical orientation/polarization of the Comm antenna
as possible (which is quite a bit).
It worked okay as a secondary Comm antenna... until I had a failure of
my primary comm many 100s of miles away from home. It then became
apparent that it's range was limited and had some directional problems
when doing ground communications. All of sudden by secondary Comm was
not a good backup for the primary. I had to do a field change to swap
my secondary radio to my primary external antenna. Then all was fine.
My flying is mostly in the system so radio use is frequent and
constant. I now have two external Comm antennas for my primary and
*backup* radios.
Again, I've found the Nav antenna to work fine for Loc/ILS work. Others
have documented that it suffers some range deficiencies over external
antenna but in the GPS age, it's VOR performance is more than adequate
in my opinion.
On 3/1/2014 7:05 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
> When I did mine I had the same concern and talked with Bob A. - he
> said close but not touching. I had about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap as I
> recall. Also important, route the wiring along the leading edge as
> directed. His nav antennas are great when installed exactly per
> directions!
>
> Bob
>
> On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com
> <mailto:woxof@aol.com>> wrote:
>
> <javascript:;>>
>
> The Archer instructions say to mount the Ant as far forward as
> possible, but I am concerned about interference from the heat
> shield foil around the landing light area.
> Any suggestions appreciated.
> TIA
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF
> complete.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419544#419544
>
>
> ==========
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
I think the definition of 'minimal priming' is only priming those parts
where Vans explicitly suggests priming. That's very few parts and areas.
I started with epoxy priming every part, moved on to a wash primer,
ended up in 'minimal priming' mode despite the fact that I had a spray
booth by then and did my own exterior paint.
Bill "with no priming recommendation" Watson
On 3/1/2014 1:21 AM, Berck E. Nash wrote:
>
> Hi there. I've just started on an RV-10 and have a few questions that
> searching has not yielded answers to. I know everyone loves priming
> questions, but I really have tried to search for the answers first.
>
> I've decided to only prime things that absolutely must be primed, but
> I'm having trouble figuring out which things those are. I've read in
> some places that "mating surfaces" must be primed. Is that all mating
> surfaces? Everywhere a skin touches a rib? Or is this just mating
> surfaces where one of the parts is not alclad?
>
> Is everything that isn't alclad obviously not alclad? For instance, the
> VS-1014 spar caps look different from most of the sheet metal. Is it
> alclad? Does it need to be primed? Or should it be primed anyway
> because it sits on top of the VS rear spar?
>
> What about the edges of everything? Clearly there's no alclad there...
> should I be worried about that? I really don't want to prime where it's
> not necessary (time, weight, and the aircraft is going to be in Colorado
> where nothing ever corrodes), but finding guidance for what's required
> is tough.
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
Ah, the never ending debates. I have basically the same data, wrt the Wingtip com
antenna, but came to the opposite conclusion!
I have a belly whip on #1, and sometimes have trouble on the ground. But the wingtip
always works! (maybe because I mounted it along the top of the wing, then
bent it down?) A few months ago I must have been in a funny geometry - pointed
right at the airport but nose down, 15 or 20 miles out. Tower couldn't make
out my transmission (but other aircraft said they could). Switched to #2 (wingtip)
and tower said loud and clear. After a turn, belly whip worked again, too.
But in general, belly whip is a little better, maybe 20% more usable range.
For me, that is good enough for a backup. Plus saving $150 and gaining a half knot!
-:)
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419591#419591
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
This is my experience exactly.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 1, 2014, at 4:56 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, the Bob A. Nav antenna works fine in the RV10's tips. Conversely, th
e Bob A. Comm antenna will work, but with limitations that I've concluded ma
ke it unsuitable for primary or secondary comm.
>
> I followed the instructions very closely. In particular I made sure I had
as much of a vertical orientation/polarization of the Comm antenna as possi
ble (which is quite a bit).
>
> It worked okay as a secondary Comm antenna... until I had a failure of my p
rimary comm many 100s of miles away from home. It then became apparent that
it's range was limited and had some directional problems when doing ground c
ommunications. All of sudden by secondary Comm was not a good backup for th
e primary. I had to do a field change to swap my secondary radio to my prim
ary external antenna. Then all was fine.
>
> My flying is mostly in the system so radio use is frequent and constant.
I now have two external Comm antennas for my primary and backup radios.
>
> Again, I've found the Nav antenna to work fine for Loc/ILS work. Others h
ave documented that it suffers some range deficiencies over external antenna
but in the GPS age, it's VOR performance is more than adequate in my opinio
n.
>
>> On 3/1/2014 7:05 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
>> When I did mine I had the same concern and talked with Bob A. - he said c
lose but not touching. I had about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap as I recall. Also im
portant, route the wiring along the leading edge as directed. His nav anten
nas are great when installed exactly per directions!
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Archer instructions say to mount the Ant as far forward as possible,
but I am concerned about interference from the heat shield foil around the
landing light area.
>>> Any suggestions appreciated.
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Myron Nelson
>>> Mesa, AZ
>>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF compl
ete.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419544#419544
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> ==========
>>> MS -
>>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> e -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> 02/28/14
>>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
I decided against the Archer antenna, not for performance reasons, but
because I intended to have 2 VOR/ILS radios, and if the reception gain was
at all limited with the Archer antenna I did not want to reduce it further
with splitters. So I am putting a VOR antenna in each wing tip, each
feeding its own radio.
I originally planned on a com antenna on belly and one on top of fuselage.
The CFO did not like the looks of antenna on top of fuselage, so that got
switched to two belly antennas. Perhaps one will work when the geometry
isn't right for the other. I currently have the top and bottom
configuration on my Mooney and find equal performance from both, haven't
had case where one wouldn't work and the other did, so I'm not concerned.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Yes, the Bob A. Nav antenna works fine in the RV10's tips. Conversely,
> the Bob A. Comm antenna will work, but with limitations that I've concluded
> make it unsuitable for primary or secondary comm.
>
> I followed the instructions very closely. In particular I made sure I had
> as much of a vertical orientation/polarization of the Comm antenna as
> possible (which is quite a bit).
>
> It worked okay as a secondary Comm antenna... until I had a failure of my
> primary comm many 100s of miles away from home. It then became apparent
> that it's range was limited and had some directional problems when doing
> ground communications. All of sudden by secondary Comm was not a good
> backup for the primary. I had to do a field change to swap my secondary
> radio to my primary external antenna. Then all was fine.
>
> My flying is mostly in the system so radio use is frequent and constant.
> I now have two external Comm antennas for my primary and *backup* radios.
>
> Again, I've found the Nav antenna to work fine for Loc/ILS work. Others
> have documented that it suffers some range deficiencies over external
> antenna but in the GPS age, it's VOR performance is more than adequate in
> my opinion.
>
>
> On 3/1/2014 7:05 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
>
> When I did mine I had the same concern and talked with Bob A. - he said
> close but not touching. I had about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap as I recall. QB
> wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I decided against the Archer antenna, not for performance reasons, but because
I intended to have 2 VOR/ILS radios, and if the reception gain was at all limited
with the Archer antenna I did not want to reduce it further with splitters.
So I am putting a VOR antenna in each wing tip, each feeding its own radio.
>
>
> [b]
So what kind of antenna, not Archer, are you putting in the wing tips?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419607#419607
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
I mis-twyped. I am using the Archer VOR antennas, I decided against the
Archer Com antenna.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > I decided against the Archer antenna, not for performance reasons, but
> because I intended to have 2 VOR/ILS radios, and if the reception gain was
> at all limited with the Archer antenna I did not want to reduce it further
> with splitters. So I am putting a VOR antenna in each wing tip, each
> feeding its own radio.
> >
> >
> > [b]
>
>
> So what kind of antenna, not Archer, are you putting in the wing tips?
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419607#419607
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
Thanks for all the inputs. I angled the heat foil a bit and mated the nav antenna
about 1/4 inch away. It actually turned out that my HID harness worked better
in the antenna screw loops with the little black box nestled between the
first two loops and the main box separate and forward. With dual GPS's (Garmin
and Dynon) I'm going with a single Nav (G430)
I prefer not to run the harness for the Kuntzleman LED/Strobe through the antenna
loops as it lines up significantly further forward. I hope that is okay.
I have two bent whips on the belly for Coms 1&2. Antenna science is all voodoo
to me.
I am starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel. (I hope it isn't an oncoming
train.)
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419612#419612
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV10-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete RV10-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains RV10-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the RV10-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the RV10-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
rv10-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "rv10-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the RV10-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the RV10-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv10-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV10-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV10-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* RV10-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the RV10-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* RV10-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the RV10-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV10
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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