Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:44 AM - For Sale: SL30 tray (Neal George)
2. 11:56 AM - Re: For Sale: SL30 tray (Alan Mekler MD)
3. 12:20 PM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/05/14 (Rich Hansen)
4. 01:32 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Kelly McMullen)
5. 02:38 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Jesse Saint)
6. 03:29 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Phillip Perry)
7. 03:57 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Jesse Saint)
8. 04:22 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Carl Froehlich)
9. 04:43 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (John Jessen)
10. 05:05 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Bob Leffler)
11. 05:06 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Stein Bruch)
12. 05:17 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (John Jessen)
13. 05:25 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Stein Bruch)
14. 05:26 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Stein Bruch)
15. 06:28 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Gary Bennett)
16. 06:52 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Dj Merrill)
17. 07:06 PM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Bob Turner)
18. 07:24 PM - Re: radios (Kelly McMullen)
19. 08:30 PM - Re: radios (Stein Bruch)
20. 09:08 PM - Re: Bonaco brake lines (rv10flyer)
21. 09:19 PM - Re: Window adhesives (rv10flyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | For Sale: SL30 tray |
Tray for SL30 & connectors.
Previously installed, excellent condition.
$150 shipped CONUS
Neal George
Sent from my iPhone
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| Subject: | Re: For Sale: SL30 tray |
Neal,
Thinking of replacing my sl40 with a 30
will the 30 fit in the 40 space?
Alan
On Apr 6, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Neal George <neal.george@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tray for SL30 & connectors.
> Previously installed, excellent condition.
>
> $150 shipped CONUS
>
> Neal George
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/05/14 |
In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV touch screen
called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 12:02 AM, RV10-List Digest Server <rv10-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
>
> This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
sender to send it again using a different format or email program. (null)/(null)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All
Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>
> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV touch
screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen functionality
just make some features quicker to access. We're flying with one already
and it's very very nice.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major difference....Dynon
gives all nav data updates for free after you pay initial fee for map
software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics for $99 a year. Compare
that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash
drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV touch
screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Anyone know if it's a direct replacement for the regular button'd G3X?
Meaning can you yank the button model and using the same pin-outs for the
new screens with matching screw holes, etc?
Phil
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen
> functionality just make some features quicker to access. We're flying with
> one already and it's very very nice.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> www.mavericklsa.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
> for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
> updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
> >
> >> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
> >>
> >> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
The new G3X is a larger screen so you will need to modify your panel. I don'
t know on the pin outs.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone know if it's a direct replacement for the regular button'd G3X?
>
> Meaning can you yank the button model and using the same pin-outs for the n
ew screens with matching screw holes, etc?
>
> Phil
>
>
>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wro
te:
>>
>> And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen fun
ctionality just make some features quicker to access. We're flying with one a
lready and it's very very nice.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse@itecusa.org
>> www.itecusa.org
>> www.mavericklsa.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> O: 352-465-4545
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major differ
ence....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay initial fee f
or map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics for $99 a year
. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon updates go on standa
rd USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>> >
>> >> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>
>
>
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
I find it amazing what good old fashion competition can produce. Garmin has
been thumbing their nose at customers for years after they bought out UPS,
their only real competitor. Now the experimental market is out building the
rest and Dynon is eating their lunch. While it is good to see Garmin trying
to gain back some of the experimental market, the lingering problem is
Garmin's grossly overpriced subscriptions and non-existent after the sale
customer service.
I can't wait for Dynon to produce their IFR certified GPS box so there is
alternative (competition) to the $10K GTN-650 stuff.
Carl
Dual 10" Dynon EFIS install
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>
> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Doesn't Van's S-LSA ( I think that's the designation ) use the Garmin G3X? Used
to be Dynon. Not a huge market, but apparently Garmin is getting some traction.
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:22 PM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> I find it amazing what good old fashion competition can produce. Garmin has
> been thumbing their nose at customers for years after they bought out UPS,
> their only real competitor. Now the experimental market is out building the
> rest and Dynon is eating their lunch. While it is good to see Garmin trying
> to gain back some of the experimental market, the lingering problem is
> Garmin's grossly overpriced subscriptions and non-existent after the sale
> customer service.
>
> I can't wait for Dynon to produce their IFR certified GPS box so there is
> alternative (competition) to the $10K GTN-650 stuff.
>
> Carl
> Dual 10" Dynon EFIS install
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 4:31 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
> for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
> updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
I=99ve heard this from several resources ( I haven=99t
personally validated yet), which means it is darn next to impossible to
put two screens together using some of the third party panels. If the
bezel was just a little smaller, it would have been a better fit. I
think Garmin shot themselves in the foot on this aspect. This will be a
competitive advantage for the other experimental vendors. (besides the
subscription rates)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
The new G3X is a larger screen so you will need to modify your panel. I
don't know on the pin outs.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 6, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyone know if it's a direct replacement for the regular button'd G3X?
Meaning can you yank the button model and using the same pin-outs for
the new screens with matching screw holes, etc?
Phil
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
wrote:
And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen
functionality just make some features quicker to access. We're flying
with one already and it's very very nice.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All
Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
<karolamy@roadrunner.com>
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
SV touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along with GRT
and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples (or as close as
you can get because you can't really do an identical comparison)...
I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon uses USB
on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally purchased USB
extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard computer/camera/tablet, etc..)
cards in the front of the screen. That said, USB drives though more bulky,
are slightly less expensive (not a bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if you
want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00 per year.
The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from Garmin
does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation' for the
mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an antenna for $99).
As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not required
for either system.
Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you intend to
buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which saves quite a
bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might purchase anyway.
To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but a
different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower than 2
single small screens placed side by side.
It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in the
new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big screen,
at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all small screen.
No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth who
knows what might come down the road.
They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that folks
loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for only one of
them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're going to compare
them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit for everyone, then I
wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin, TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering,
etc... It's pretty tough to make a statement that is an absolute which
would cover each person's scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make the
systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want them (like
ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There are pricing and
functional differences there too that you should take into account when
looking at the whole picture.
To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use first-hand
feedback from folks who actually have the system in question, instead of
using hyperbole based on (certified products, portables, or...?). Different
team, different support network, different systems. Also, if you paid $10K
for an IFR GTN, then you paid too much - they have often been on sale for
less than $9K - which I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative
is a decent choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little
interest in making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several
times - the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15
years to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over a
decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show and do in
this market!
The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably noticed
their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed. Currently that's the
only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12, though I'm betting that
might change. I'm also betting that at some point this might be an option
in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive with other SLSA's like CubCrafters,
FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who have the G3X in them).
I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to remain
objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a subjecting
thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there needs to be more
than one. If either company takes 100% of the market then it's a bad thing,
no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither one of them wants to hear
that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't be advantageous for either
company to quit playing in this market for us as homebuilders. Having this
much strong competition is really quite good for us as builders.
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>
> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative" is
a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR panel
mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along with GRT
> and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples (or as close as
> you can get because you can't really do an identical comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon uses USB
> on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally purchased USB
> extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard computer/camera/tablet, etc..)
> cards in the front of the screen. That said, USB drives though more bulky,
> are slightly less expensive (not a bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if you
> want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00 per year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from Garmin
> does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation' for the
> mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an antenna for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not required
> for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you intend to
> buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which saves quite a
> bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might purchase anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but a
> different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower than 2
> single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in the
> new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big screen,
> at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth who
> knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that folks
> loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for only one of
> them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're going to compare
> them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit for everyone, then I
> wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin, TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering,
> etc... It's pretty tough to make a statement that is an absolute which
> would cover each person's scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make the
> systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want them (like
> ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There are pricing and
> functional differences there too that you should take into account when
> looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use first-hand
> feedback from folks who actually have the system in question, instead of
> using hyperbole based on (certified products, portables, or...?). Different
> team, different support network, different systems. Also, if you paid $10K
> for an IFR GTN, then you paid too much - they have often been on sale for
> less than $9K - which I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative
> is a decent choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little
> interest in making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several
> times - the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15
> years to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over a
> decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show and do in
> this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably noticed
> their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed. Currently that's the
> only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12, though I'm betting that
> might change. I'm also betting that at some point this might be an option
> in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive with other SLSA's like CubCrafters,
> FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who have the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to remain
> objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a subjecting
> thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there needs to be more
> than one. If either company takes 100% of the market then it's a bad thing,
> no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither one of them wants to hear
> that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't be advantageous for either
> company to quit playing in this market for us as homebuilders. Having this
> much strong competition is really quite good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
> for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
> updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
Size wise the Garmin screen is =C2=BE=9D taller (which is the same
as the smaller G3X screens currently in the market), and =C2=BD=9D
wider than the Dynon 10=9D screen...
Pinouts are the same.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
I=99ve heard this from several resources ( I haven=99t
personally validated yet), which means it is darn next to impossible to
put two screens together using some of the third party panels. If the
bezel was just a little smaller, it would have been a better fit. I
think Garmin shot themselves in the foot on this aspect. This will be a
competitive advantage for the other experimental vendors. (besides the
subscription rates)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
The new G3X is a larger screen so you will need to modify your panel. I
don't know on the pin outs.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 6, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyone know if it's a direct replacement for the regular button'd G3X?
Meaning can you yank the button model and using the same pin-outs for
the new screens with matching screw holes, etc?
Phil
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
wrote:
And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen
functionality just make some features quicker to access. We're flying
with one already and it's very very nice.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All
Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
<karolamy@roadrunner.com>
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
SV touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 14
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
Ooops...sorry, I forgot that! That would be the GNS-400W panel mount IFR
GPS - though that price is the bundled price with a G3X which I also forgot
to add. Too much for my Sunday afternoon brain to remember. Being our first
60degree day of the year has me all giddy!
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative"
is a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR
panel mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along
> with GRT and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples
> (or as close as you can get because you can't really do an identical
comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon
> uses USB on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally
> purchased USB extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard
> computer/camera/tablet, etc..) cards in the front of the screen. That
> said, USB drives though more bulky, are slightly less expensive (not a
bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if
> you want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00 per
year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from
> Garmin does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation'
> for the mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an antenna
for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not
> required for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you
> intend to buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which
> saves quite a bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might purchase
anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but
> a different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower
> than 2 single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in
> the new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big
> screen, at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all
small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth
> who knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that
> folks loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for
> only one of them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're
> going to compare them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit
> for everyone, then I wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin,
> TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering, etc... It's pretty tough to make a
> statement that is an absolute which would cover each person's
scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make
> the systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want
> them (like ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There
> are pricing and functional differences there too that you should take
> into account when looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use
> first-hand feedback from folks who actually have the system in
> question, instead of using hyperbole based on (certified products,
> portables, or...?). Different team, different support network,
> different systems. Also, if you paid $10K for an IFR GTN, then you
> paid too much - they have often been on sale for less than $9K - which
> I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative is a decent
> choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little interest in
> making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several times -
> the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15 years
> to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over
> a decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show and
do in this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably
> noticed their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed.
> Currently that's the only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12,
> though I'm betting that might change. I'm also betting that at some
> point this might be an option in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive
> with other SLSA's like CubCrafters, FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who have
the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to
> remain objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a
> subjecting thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there
> needs to be more than one. If either company takes 100% of the market
> then it's a bad thing, no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither
> one of them wants to hear that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't
> be advantageous for either company to quit playing in this market for
> us as homebuilders. Having this much strong competition is really quite
good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
> Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing.
> All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> --> <karolamy@roadrunner.com>
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
>> SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are in
GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others) but
they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
and price-tag.
So far, my plane will have Dynon touch-screens, PS Audio, Garmin GTN 650
(built-in NAV/COM) with a second Garmin GTR 200 COM ($ 1,200 but is 10
WATT).
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: April-06-14 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative"
is a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR
panel mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along
> with GRT and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples
> (or as close as you can get because you can't really do an identical
comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon
> uses USB on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally
> purchased USB extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard
> computer/camera/tablet, etc..) cards in the front of the screen. That
> said, USB drives though more bulky, are slightly less expensive (not a
bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if
> you want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00 per
year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from
> Garmin does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation'
> for the mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an antenna
for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not
> required for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you
> intend to buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which
> saves quite a bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might purchase
anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but
> a different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower
> than 2 single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in
> the new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big
> screen, at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all
small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth
> who knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that
> folks loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for
> only one of them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're
> going to compare them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit
> for everyone, then I wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin,
> TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering, etc... It's pretty tough to make a
> statement that is an absolute which would cover each person's
scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make
> the systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want
> them (like ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There
> are pricing and functional differences there too that you should take
> into account when looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use
> first-hand feedback from folks who actually have the system in
> question, instead of using hyperbole based on (certified products,
> portables, or...?). Different team, different support network,
> different systems. Also, if you paid $10K for an IFR GTN, then you
> paid too much - they have often been on sale for less than $9K - which
> I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative is a decent
> choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little interest in
> making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several times -
> the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15 years
> to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over
> a decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show and
do in this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably
> noticed their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed.
> Currently that's the only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12,
> though I'm betting that might change. I'm also betting that at some
> point this might be an option in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive
> with other SLSA's like CubCrafters, FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who have
the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to
> remain objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a
> subjecting thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there
> needs to be more than one. If either company takes 100% of the market
> then it's a bad thing, no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither
> one of them wants to hear that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't
> be advantageous for either company to quit playing in this market for
> us as homebuilders. Having this much strong competition is really quite
good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
> Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing.
> All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> --> <karolamy@roadrunner.com>
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
>> SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
On 4/6/2014 9:28 PM, Gary Bennett wrote:
> Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
> and price-tag.
Val NAV 2000 $1165
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/valnav2000.php
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
There are lots of good nav/coms for less than $4500.
My political objection to Garmin is that, for reasons already mentioned including
the buy out of UPS (which imho should never have been allowed) they have a
virtual monopoly on ifr gps - and by offering a good price on the 400W but only
to G3 buyers ther are using their monopoly to buy their way into the EAB EFIS
market.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421659#421659
Message 18
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In the real world with a good, properly installed antenna, you and ATC
will not notice the difference between 6 watts and 10 watts.
Most of the old KX 170 and 155 series radios as well as the Narco Mk 12
series were in the 7-8 watt range.
To really see a performance difference you need to step up to the 16-20
watt output, and unless you fly in the flight levels is pretty hard to
justify the cost.
On 4/6/2014 6:28 PM, Gary Bennett wrote:
>
> The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
> NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are in
> GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others) but
> they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
> Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
> and price-tag.
>
Message 19
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|
That is definatley true. At the frequncies and levels we are talking
about, the differences aren't exactly linear...meaning that a 40% increase
in wattage doesn't necessarily and automatically equate to a 40% increase
in perceived or real performance. That said, the higher power radio will
often "step on" the lower powered one in some instances. There are a lot
more variables that affect radio quality than pure wattage. I've seen some
panel mounted 5W handhelds with and exceptionally good installation
outperform a poorly installed 10W radio. Again, just a lot of variables
that don't make things an absolute!
Cheers,
Stein
On Sunday, April 6, 2014, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> In the real world with a good, properly installed antenna, you and ATC
> will not notice the difference between 6 watts and 10 watts.
> Most of the old KX 170 and 155 series radios as well as the Narco Mk 12
> series were in the 7-8 watt range.
> To really see a performance difference you need to step up to the 16-20
> watt output, and unless you fly in the flight levels is pretty hard to
> justify the cost.
>
> On 4/6/2014 6:28 PM, Gary Bennett wrote:
>
>>
>> The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
>> NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are
>> in
>> GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others)
>> but
>> they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
>> Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name
>> brands
>> and price-tag.
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Bonaco brake lines |
Black electrical tape secures my Bonaco flex lines nicely. I don't have oil or
fuel in my gear legs.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421664#421664
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Window adhesives |
I used Weld-On 45(thicker version of 10). Uses a cartridge gun. Another builder
friend used the same and is close to flying.
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Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421666#421666
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