Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:06 AM - Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture (Tal Holloway)
2. 05:29 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Carl Froehlich)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture (Carl Froehlich)
4. 06:18 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Bob Leffler)
5. 06:29 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Gary Bennett)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Carl Froehlich)
7. 07:17 AM - Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Carlos Trigo)
8. 07:32 AM - Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Kelly McMullen)
9. 07:38 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Stein Bruch)
10. 09:08 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Nikolaos Napoli)
11. 10:03 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Bob Leffler)
12. 10:03 AM - Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture (Bob Turner)
13. 10:08 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Stein Bruch)
14. 10:57 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Bob Turner)
15. 11:07 AM - Re: Garmin Touch screen (Dj Merrill)
16. 11:10 AM - Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Dj Merrill)
17. 11:18 AM - Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Kelly McMullen)
18. 12:09 PM - Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Stein Bruch)
19. 12:14 PM - Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Bob Turner)
20. 12:26 PM - Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Bob Turner)
21. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Stein Bruch)
22. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture (Jack Phillips)
23. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture (Michael Orth)
24. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture (Kelly McMullen)
25. 04:15 PM - Re: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine compartment (Linn Walters)
26. 05:33 PM - RV10 Measurements for PowerTow Tug (Nikolaos Napoli)
27. 06:17 PM - Re: RV10 Measurements for PowerTow Tug (Rob Kochman)
28. 06:22 PM - Re: RV-10 in Yuma? (Albert Gardner)
29. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) (Bill Watson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
Can anyone tell me about what is included in the QB finishing kit? When I finish
my tail kit and order the wing and fuselage QB kits, how much lead time and
in what order will I need to plan on my avionics and engine?
Thank you,
Tal Holloway
Apex, NC
Message 2
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as Comm #2
and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Bennett
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are in
GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others) but
they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
and price-tag.
So far, my plane will have Dynon touch-screens, PS Audio, Garmin GTN 650
(built-in NAV/COM) with a second Garmin GTR 200 COM ($ 1,200 but is 10
WATT).
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: April-06-14 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative"
is a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR
panel mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along
> with GRT and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples
> (or as close as you can get because you can't really do an identical
comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon
> uses USB on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally
> purchased USB extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard
> computer/camera/tablet, etc..) cards in the front of the screen. That
> said, USB drives though more bulky, are slightly less expensive (not a
bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if
> you want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00
> per
year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from
> Garmin does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation'
> for the mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an
> antenna
for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not
> required for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you
> intend to buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which
> saves quite a bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might
> purchase
anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but
> a different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower
> than 2 single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in
> the new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big
> screen, at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all
small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth
> who knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that
> folks loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for
> only one of them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're
> going to compare them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit
> for everyone, then I wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin,
> TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering, etc... It's pretty tough to make a
> statement that is an absolute which would cover each person's
scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make
> the systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want
> them (like ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There
> are pricing and functional differences there too that you should take
> into account when looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use
> first-hand feedback from folks who actually have the system in
> question, instead of using hyperbole based on (certified products,
> portables, or...?). Different team, different support network,
> different systems. Also, if you paid $10K for an IFR GTN, then you
> paid too much - they have often been on sale for less than $9K - which
> I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative is a decent
> choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little interest in
> making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several times -
> the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15 years
> to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over
> a decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show
> and
do in this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably
> noticed their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed.
> Currently that's the only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12,
> though I'm betting that might change. I'm also betting that at some
> point this might be an option in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive
> with other SLSA's like CubCrafters, FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who
> have
the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to
> remain objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a
> subjecting thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there
> needs to be more than one. If either company takes 100% of the market
> then it's a bad thing, no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither
> one of them wants to hear that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't
> be advantageous for either company to quit playing in this market for
> us as homebuilders. Having this much strong competition is really
> quite
good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
> Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing.
> All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> --> <karolamy@roadrunner.com>
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
>> SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
If you have the cash, order the wing, fuselage QB and the finish kits
together and save some shipping cost.
Engine must be on to fit the cowl. If you do not have access to a prop hub
identical to the prop you will use, you need to buy the prop as well. The
prop and spinner must be on the engine to do the cowl.
Get everything done before you buy Avionics. Products like Garmin will have
warrantees expire before you ever get the plane in the air. What you can do
however is decide on about what avionics you will use so that you can buy
things like autopilot servos and mounts and get them installed.
There is a lot of work to do once you get the fuselage ready for the canopy
top, doors and glass (as in a year for me). Do these before engine mount.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tal Holloway
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at
AirVenture
Can anyone tell me about what is included in the QB finishing kit? When I
finish my tail kit and order the wing and fuselage QB kits, how much lead
time and in what order will I need to plan on my avionics and engine?
Thank you,
Tal Holloway
Apex, NC
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Carl,
Please elaborate on this and the other surprises you experienced with the gtn650
install.
My surprise was the connector illustrations for p1004 was mislabeled in rev 4,5,&6
of the aml-stc install manual causing the connector to be wired backward.
I just started experiencing a squelch issue on my 650 that wasn't there before
Garmin repaired the unit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2014, at 8:24 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
RE: 6 watt vs 10 watt. No matter what, line-of-sight is always going to be
the limiting factor, but some places (like most of Canada where I live)
don't have ATC repeater stations every 10 miles. Lots of times I can hear
ATC but they can't hear me.
If you can get 10 watts for the same price as 6 watts, why wouldn't you?
Garmin GTR 200 is only $ 1,195.00
Some of the issues surrounding which brands go into your panel has much to
do with which are compatible with the features of your EFIS system. I have
not yet finished my study, but so far, reading any of the installation
guides for Dynon, Garmin and AFS will give you a list of compatible products
that can be operated from the efis system. Ie: frequency tuning (NAV and
COM), transponder, etc. It seems that most show a list of Garmin gear, and
not much else.
A more rare feature is the ability for flight plans to cross-populate
between EFIS and IFR GPS Navigator. AFS has that feature now, Dynon and G3X
don't.
The other issue is panel space. Yes, you can buy a cheap COM only and a
separate VAL AVIONICS NAV, but now there are 2 boxes to find holes for. I
would much prefer a single NAV/COM unit.
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: April-07-14 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
--> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as Comm #2
and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Bennett
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are in
GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others) but
they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
and price-tag.
So far, my plane will have Dynon touch-screens, PS Audio, Garmin GTN 650
(built-in NAV/COM) with a second Garmin GTR 200 COM ($ 1,200 but is 10
WATT).
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: April-06-14 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative"
is a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR
panel mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along
> with GRT and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples
> (or as close as you can get because you can't really do an identical
comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon
> uses USB on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally
> purchased USB extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard
> computer/camera/tablet, etc..) cards in the front of the screen. That
> said, USB drives though more bulky, are slightly less expensive (not a
bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if
> you want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00
> per
year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from
> Garmin does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation'
> for the mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an
> antenna
for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not
> required for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you
> intend to buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which
> saves quite a bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might
> purchase
anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but
> a different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower
> than 2 single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in
> the new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big
> screen, at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all
small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth
> who knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that
> folks loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for
> only one of them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're
> going to compare them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit
> for everyone, then I wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin,
> TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering, etc... It's pretty tough to make a
> statement that is an absolute which would cover each person's
scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make
> the systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want
> them (like ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There
> are pricing and functional differences there too that you should take
> into account when looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use
> first-hand feedback from folks who actually have the system in
> question, instead of using hyperbole based on (certified products,
> portables, or...?). Different team, different support network,
> different systems. Also, if you paid $10K for an IFR GTN, then you
> paid too much - they have often been on sale for less than $9K - which
> I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative is a decent
> choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little interest in
> making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several times -
> the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15 years
> to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over
> a decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show
> and
do in this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably
> noticed their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed.
> Currently that's the only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12,
> though I'm betting that might change. I'm also betting that at some
> point this might be an option in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive
> with other SLSA's like CubCrafters, FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who
> have
the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to
> remain objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a
> subjecting thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there
> needs to be more than one. If either company takes 100% of the market
> then it's a bad thing, no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither
> one of them wants to hear that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't
> be advantageous for either company to quit playing in this market for
> us as homebuilders. Having this much strong competition is really
> quite
good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
> Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing.
> All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> --> <karolamy@roadrunner.com>
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
>> SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
My GTN-650 problems:
#1: Configuration module not provided (long story). I would not expect
others to have this problem.
#2: This comm software fix. This is/was a known problem with the GTN
series: http://garmin.blogs.com/files/1123.pdf Perhaps this is now fixed in
production - don't know. I was an early buyer.
#3: The 650 went dark from time to time, then restarted itself a few
seconds later. Unit sent back to Garmin for repair. Has worked since.
There is another known problem with the GTN-650 regarding interference
between the communications section and the GPS receiver. Here is a note I
got from the avionics shop on this problem:
One other thing I have seen. Transmitting with the comm causes a weird loop
effect in the ELT antenna/coax and this knocks out the GPS. Try
disconnecting the ELT coax and see if that solves it.
So in other words, doing a GPS approach and transmitting on the GTN-650
radio caused the GPS signals to drop out and you get the "abort approach"
message. In my install I also noted a significant degrade in NAV signal
when transmitting on the 650.
For my install the ELT had nothing to do with the problem. I did find the
problem gone when I replace the installed MicroAir transceiver (comm #2)
with the Dynon radio (the MicroAir was my temporary comm #2 while waiting
for the Dynon radio to come out). After this change the GPS and NAV signal
degrade was gone. I note the GTN-650 GPS and Nav signals were not degraded
when transmitting on the MicroAir. So the MicroAir in receive mode somehow
feed back into the GTN-650 GPS and NAV receivers when the 650 transmitted,
even though the MicroAir was not transmitting.
So for the good news. Now after all the issues are resolved the GTN-650
works as advertised. The only lingering issue is the overpriced annual data
base subscription.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
rv@thelefflers.com>
Carl,
Please elaborate on this and the other surprises you experienced with the
gtn650 install.
My surprise was the connector illustrations for p1004 was mislabeled in rev
4,5,&6 of the aml-stc install manual causing the connector to be wired
backward.
I just started experiencing a squelch issue on my 650 that wasn't there
before Garmin repaired the unit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2014, at 8:24 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <
<mailto:carl.froehlich@verizon.net> carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
--> < <mailto:carl.froehlich@verizon.net> carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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| Subject: | Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
Guys
Since we are right now discussing the new Garmin touchscreen, and also
Dynon's, I wonder if any of you has built, very recently, a comparison chart
between the biggest contenders on this market (Dynon, GRT, Garmin, AFS and
MGL) you could share with the group.
I would be very thankful if I could see a very recent comparison chart of
EFIS's for our Experimental birds.
Anybody?
Thanks
Carlos
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
Things have changed a little since I made my decisions. Dynon bought AFS
and is operating them as an independent subsidiary for now, as far as I
know.
That may or may not give AFS long term stability. Grand Rapids has
always been the big unknown. I shied away because they didn't make all
their manuals available on web prior to purchase, and I didn't find
enough answers on their web site. I have no idea of their long term
stability.
The choice for me came down to whether the autopilot was built-in and
integrated vs a separate system. If separate is important to you, you
will pay several thousand extra for that independence. There are good
arguments either way. Beyond that, at the time Garmin was noticeably
more expensive, but has since lowered their price. Also consider price
of acquisition vs keeping data current for whatever number of years is
meaningful to you, and if you are not in US how that impacts
availability of data/charts and price. Dynon, AFS and Grand Rapids were
fairly close on features and price, outside the autopilot price.
(actually, at the time Dynon was behind the other two in features, but
has mostly caught up).
On 4/7/2014 7:25 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> Since we are right now discussing the new Garmin touchscreen, and also
> Dynon's, I wonder if any of you has built, very recently, a comparison chart
> between the biggest contenders on this market (Dynon, GRT, Garmin, AFS and
> MGL) you could share with the group.
>
> I would be very thankful if I could see a very recent comparison chart of
> EFIS's for our Experimental birds.
>
> Anybody?
>
> Thanks
> Carlos
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
Are you sure about that? I am not aware of any EFIS or device that can
"push" a flightplan from the EFIS over to one of the certified Garmin
GPSes....at least the AFS in our RV7 won't do that to the 430W. That said
pretty much all of them will accept the flightplans/approaches FROM the IFR
GPS over to the EFIS.
Also note that the remote mount version of the GTR-200 (GTR-20) is even
cheaper at $995.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Bennett
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 8:29 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
.......If you can get 10 watts for the same price as 6 watts, why wouldn't
you?
Garmin GTR 200 is only $ 1,195.00.......
.........A more rare feature is the ability for flight plans to
cross-populate between EFIS and IFR GPS Navigator. AFS has that feature now,
Dynon and G3X don't........
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: April-07-14 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
--> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as Comm #2
and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Actualy I was talking to a Garmin rep about that yesterday at Sun-n-Fun and his
response was that the FAA wont allow a certified IFR gps to receive a flight
plan from another device.
Nikolaos Napoli
> On Apr 7, 2014, at 10:37 AM, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
>
> Are you sure about that? I am not aware of any EFIS or device that can
> "push" a flightplan from the EFIS over to one of the certified Garmin
> GPSes....at least the AFS in our RV7 won't do that to the 430W. That said
> pretty much all of them will accept the flightplans/approaches FROM the IFR
> GPS over to the EFIS.
>
> Also note that the remote mount version of the GTR-200 (GTR-20) is even
> cheaper at $995.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Bennett
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 8:29 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> .......If you can get 10 watts for the same price as 6 watts, why wouldn't
> you?
> Garmin GTR 200 is only $ 1,195.00.......
>
>
> .........A more rare feature is the ability for flight plans to
> cross-populate between EFIS and IFR GPS Navigator. AFS has that feature now,
> Dynon and G3X don't........
>
>
> Gary Bennett
>
> http://bendun.net/
> http://photos.bendun.net/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
> Sent: April-07-14 8:25 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
> --> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>
> Gary,
>
> Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
> audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
> in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
>
> WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
> instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
> operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as Comm #2
> and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Thanks for the update. I hope I'm past those. Just got all the current s
oftware updates last month.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2014, at 10:15 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> w
rote:
My GTN-650 problems:
#1: Configuration module not provided (long story). I would not expect oth
ers to have this problem.
#2: This comm software fix. This is/was a known problem with the GTN serie
s: http://garmin.blogs.com/files/1123.pdf Perhaps this is now fixed in prod
uction - don't know. I was an early buyer.
#3: The 650 went dark from time to time, then restarted itself a few second
s later. Unit sent back to Garmin for repair. Has worked since.
There is another known problem with the GTN-650 regarding interference betwe
en the communications section and the GPS receiver. Here is a note I got fr
om the avionics shop on this problem:
One other thing I have seen. Transmitting with the comm causes a weird loop e
ffect in the ELT antenna/coax and this knocks out the GPS. Try disconnecting
the ELT coax and see if that solves it.
So in other words, doing a GPS approach and transmitting on the GTN-650 radi
o caused the GPS signals to drop out and you get the =9Cabort approach
=9D message. In my install I also noted a significant degrade in NAV s
ignal when transmitting on the 650.
For my install the ELT had nothing to do with the problem. I did find the p
roblem gone when I replace the installed MicroAir transceiver (comm #2) with
the Dynon radio (the MicroAir was my temporary comm #2 while waiting for th
e Dynon radio to come out). After this change the GPS and NAV signal degrad
e was gone. I note the GTN-650 GPS and Nav signals were not degraded when t
ransmitting on the MicroAir. So the MicroAir in receive mode somehow feed b
ack into the GTN-650 GPS and NAV receivers when the 650 transmitted, even th
ough the MicroAir was not transmitting.
So for the good news. Now after all the issues are resolved the GTN-650 wor
ks as advertised. The only lingering issue is the overpriced annual data ba
se subscription.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Carl,
Please elaborate on this and the other surprises you experienced with the gt
n650 install.
My surprise was the connector illustrations for p1004 was mislabeled in rev 4
,5,&6 of the aml-stc install manual causing the connector to be wired backwa
rd.
I just started experiencing a squelch issue on my 650 that wasn't there befo
re Garmin repaired the unit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2014, at 8:24 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wr
ote:
--> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
Hi Tal,
As Carl said, order avionics last. They change so fast that anything you buy today
will be obsolete before you fly. Also - contrary to everything else - they
are becoming less expensive or more capable (your choice).
As he noted, you may save a few dollars shipping if you order the finish kit (same
kit, slow or quick build) with the QB wings and fuselage. But you will need
storage space for it. In the past (2008) the QB fuselage and wings could have
backlogs as long as 4 months. Call Vans and ask for the current status (I think
it's on their web site but may not be the latest info). Finally, the engine.
What is your plan? If you were hoping to find a good used one they are rare,
you just have to watch constantly. If an overhaul, ask your overhauler about
lead times and time to find a useable core. If factory new, you have a choice.
These things have been inflating faster than the stock market, so you may consider
buying it and the prop (Vans offers a $1K discount if you buy both at the
same time) during this year's OSH/AirVenture. They usually have a special,
like free shipping and free long term preservation oil. Otherwise, engine lead
times are a few months.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421714#421714
Message 13
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| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
...unless that other device is also a certified box. Most of them (the
GNS's and GTN's) will allow cross fill from other certified boxes, just not
any of the experimental EFISes that I'm aware of.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Actualy I was talking to a Garmin rep about that yesterday at Sun-n-Fun and
his response was that the FAA wont allow a certified IFR gps to receive a
flight plan from another device.
Nikolaos Napoli
> On Apr 7, 2014, at 10:37 AM, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
>
> Are you sure about that? I am not aware of any EFIS or device that can
> "push" a flightplan from the EFIS over to one of the certified Garmin
> GPSes....at least the AFS in our RV7 won't do that to the 430W. That
> said pretty much all of them will accept the flightplans/approaches
> FROM the IFR GPS over to the EFIS.
>
> Also note that the remote mount version of the GTR-200 (GTR-20) is
> even cheaper at $995.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Bennett
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 8:29 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> .......If you can get 10 watts for the same price as 6 watts, why
> wouldn't you?
> Garmin GTR 200 is only $ 1,195.00.......
>
>
> .........A more rare feature is the ability for flight plans to
> cross-populate between EFIS and IFR GPS Navigator. AFS has that
> feature now, Dynon and G3X don't........
>
>
> Gary Bennett
>
> http://bendun.net/
> http://photos.bendun.net/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Froehlich
> Sent: April-07-14 8:25 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
> --> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>
> Gary,
>
> Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you
> use a PS audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three
> surprises I had in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out
of my pocket.
>
> WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
> instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
> operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as
> Comm #2 and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
I"m not sure it's a case of "other certified boxes" or "other Garmin boxes". Recall
a few years ago someone was marketing a box with speech recogniton - you
could just talk into it and it would push a flight plan into the 4xxW box, thru
the cross-fill port. It even had victor airways. Garmin issued a new software
update for 4xxW which changed the software protocol on the cross-fill, effectively
putting them out of business, and anyone who bought one had a useless piece
of hardware.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421721#421721
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
On 4/7/2014 9:29 AM, Gary Bennett wrote:
> The other issue is panel space. Yes, you can buy a cheap COM only and a
> separate VAL AVIONICS NAV, but now there are 2 boxes to find holes for. I
> would much prefer a single NAV/COM unit.
The VAL units are one inch in height, so you can install a Val COM and a
Val NAV in a single hole approximately the same space as a single
NAV/COM such as KX-155, etc, and slightly larger (about 0.4 inch) hole
than a GNC255. They also link together and talk the same protocol as
the SL30 to allow remote channel changing, etc, which I believe all of
the major EFIS units support.
Total cost of the Val COM + NAV is about $2150, which is slightly more
than half that of an SL30 or GNC255A for similar functionality.
I am not trying to argue, just am pointing out that there is at least
one alternative to Garmin in this area. The Val NAV is relatively new
to the market so it will be interesting to see how well it does.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
On 4/7/2014 10:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Grand Rapids has always been the big unknown. I shied away because
> they didn't make all their manuals available on web prior to purchase,
> and I didn't find enough answers on their web site.
Kelly, when were you looking? About a year and a half ago I spend hours
pouring through the documentation on the GRT site before I purchased one
last summer. One issue is that there are often new features released in
the GRT software and it seems to take them awhile to update the online
documentation to match, but they are pretty good about sending out email
updates about how to use the new features and also posting the info to
their new forum site. Not quite the same thing, I know, but at least
the info is publicly available.
I am really impressed with the new "Mini" that they just released. Looks
like it will make an excellent backup EFIS unit.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
Over two years ago. Glad they have fixed that.
On 4/7/2014 11:07 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> On 4/7/2014 10:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> Grand Rapids has always been the big unknown. I shied away because
>> they didn't make all their manuals available on web prior to
>> purchase, and I didn't find enough answers on their web site.
>
> Kelly, when were you looking? About a year and a half ago I spend
> hours pouring through the documentation on the GRT site before I
> purchased one last summer. One issue is that there are often new
> features released in the GRT software and it seems to take them awhile
> to update the online documentation to match, but they are pretty good
> about sending out email updates about how to use the new features and
> also posting the info to their new forum site. Not quite the same
> thing, I know, but at least the info is publicly available.
>
> I am really impressed with the new "Mini" that they just released.
> Looks like it will make an excellent backup EFIS unit.
>
> -Dj
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
GRT has been getting much more caught up since they hired Ben and
Katie...but I've still been beating them up over not having voice warnings
on their engine monitor...AFS had it many years ago, Dynon 2nd, and finally
Garmin - they need to do that to remain competitive in my opinion.
The mini is also an attractive product - they just need to deliver them.
It's been awhile since I showed one in my booth a OSH last year! :)
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen)
Over two years ago. Glad they have fixed that.
On 4/7/2014 11:07 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> On 4/7/2014 10:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> Grand Rapids has always been the big unknown. I shied away because
>> they didn't make all their manuals available on web prior to
>> purchase, and I didn't find enough answers on their web site.
>
> Kelly, when were you looking? About a year and a half ago I spend
> hours pouring through the documentation on the GRT site before I
> purchased one last summer. One issue is that there are often new
> features released in the GRT software and it seems to take them awhile
> to update the online documentation to match, but they are pretty good
> about sending out email updates about how to use the new features and
> also posting the info to their new forum site. Not quite the same
> thing, I know, but at least the info is publicly available.
>
> I am really impressed with the new "Mini" that they just released.
> Looks like it will make an excellent backup EFIS unit.
>
> -Dj
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
Stein will jump in here soon and caution, that everyone likes what they bought
best! So for full disclosure, I went with GRT and I am very happy!!
But, I agree, the GRT documentation is a bit fragmented. You have to read thru
all the info all over their web site; software upgrades are on the software upgrade
page, and take a while to make it into the manuals; some info that applies
to the HX is found only in the HXr manuals, and vice versa. The "tekies" understand
that the 'guts' are the same inside these boxes so it makes sense to
look in both manuals, but not everyone appreciates that. So there is less "hand-holding"
from GRT for those to whom a computer is an alien device.
They recently hired a tech writer to improve this area, and I think it is getting
better.
As to autopilots: Compare apples to apples. IF you start with a 2 screen, 1 AirData
computer EFIS system, you can:
1. Add EFIS company servos
2. Add EFIS company servos and an additional AirData computer
3. Add a stand-alone (TRIO or TT) autopilot
Option (1) is the least expensive, but offers no redundancy (if the airdata fails,
so does the EFIS and the Autopilot). Option (2) and (3) offer about the same
redundancy, with (3) offering insurance against a system wide software bug.
Options (2) and (3) are pretty close in price. Option (3) costs more panel space.
Frankly, if you only fly VFR, it's hard to beat option (1). If you fly IFR, it's
your call.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421734#421734
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
Stein,
Although I usually agree with you, not this time. Between the flashing master caution
light (which is really bright) and the the flashing red on the screen(s)
(whether it's oil pressure, CHT, etc.) I don't see how anyone could ignore the
engine warnings, and I do not want a voice yelling at me "oil pressure, oil
pressure" if I boot up the EIS (which I do) prior to engine start.
OTOH, the one audio warning they do need is for angle of attack, since the most
critical time (landing approach) is also when you are concentrating the most
out the windscreen. The D-6 variable warning tone is perfect in this regard.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421735#421735
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
I can buy that reasoning and also respect that position. There are times
when I dislike "lola" scolding me, but then there are other times when I'm
cruising along not looking at the panel where I find it a help. I find it
useful to at least be able to turn her/him on or off depending on how I feel
that day! Normally with the systems that have voice warnings, they don't
all start yelling at you when you first boot up the system though...
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 2:26 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen)
Stein,
Although I usually agree with you, not this time. Between the flashing
master caution light (which is really bright) and the the flashing red on
the screen(s) (whether it's oil pressure, CHT, etc.) I don't see how anyone
could ignore the engine warnings, and I do not want a voice yelling at me
"oil pressure, oil pressure" if I boot up the EIS (which I do) prior to
engine start.
OTOH, the one audio warning they do need is for angle of attack, since the
most critical time (landing approach) is also when you are concentrating the
most out the windscreen. The D-6 variable warning tone is perfect in this
regard.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421735#421735
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
Tal,
I would suggest you keep an eye out for a good deal on an engine (unless you
are planning on buying a new engine). I was able to find a very good deal
on an O-540-A1D5 from a Piper Aztec on eBay a couple of years ago. The
engine has 60 hours SMOH and I got it, the logs, and the entire firewall
forward assembly from the Aztec (including alterhator, starter and vacuum
pump) for $13,000.
I had planned to buy a core of an IO-540 for about $12K and then put $15K in
new parts in it, overhauling it myself. Even though I wasn't sure what I
was getting with this eBay purchase, I felt it was worth it for the money
just to have as a core. I was surprised and pleased to see that it was
better than advertized, with new Millenium Cylinders, new Slick mags and
good shops used for the overhaul. So good deals are out there - you just
need to look for them
Now I just need to get back to work on the project.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Wings and Tail done. Need to buy the Fuselage Kit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 1:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at
AirVenture
Hi Tal,
As Carl said, order avionics last. They change so fast that anything you buy
today will be obsolete before you fly. Also - contrary to everything else -
they are becoming less expensive or more capable (your choice).
As he noted, you may save a few dollars shipping if you order the finish kit
(same kit, slow or quick build) with the QB wings and fuselage. But you will
need storage space for it. In the past (2008) the QB fuselage and wings
could have backlogs as long as 4 months. Call Vans and ask for the current
status (I think it's on their web site but may not be the latest info).
Finally, the engine. What is your plan? If you were hoping to find a good
used one they are rare, you just have to watch constantly. If an overhaul,
ask your overhauler about lead times and time to find a useable core. If
factory new, you have a choice. These things have been inflating faster than
the stock market, so you may consider buying it and the prop (Vans offers a
$1K discount if you buy both at the same time) during this year's
OSH/AirVenture. They usually have a special, like free shipping and free
long term preservation oil. Otherwise, engine lead times are a few months.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421714#421714
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
FOR SALE
3 ENGINES & 1 PROP
ENGINE #1-RIGHT
CONTINENTAL 10-470L
S/N 91968-5-L
TTSO 1489.8
COMPLETE ENGINE & PROPELLER PITCH CONTROL.
COMPLETE LOGS.
REMOVED FROM BEECHCRAFT BARON THAT LANDED GEAR-UP. INCIDENT HAS NOT BEEN
ENTERED INTO ENGINE LOG.
OIL DRAINED AND SHOWED NO SIGN OF CONTAMINATION.
OIL-PAN DROPPED AND VISUAL INSPECTION SHOWED NO SIGN OF DAMAGE.
MY FEELING IS THAT THIS ENGINE DID NOT SUFFER ANY DAMAGE AS THE RESULT
OF THE ACCIDENT.
COULD BE USED IN A/C, AIRBOAT, OR HOVERCRAFT.
PRICE $5,000 USD; YOU PAY SHIPPING.
ENGINE #2-LEFT
CONTINENTAL 10-470L
S/N 91945-5-L
TTSO 1457.8
COMPLETE ENGINE & PROPELLER PITCH CONTROL.
COMPLETE LOGS
REMOVED FROM BEECHCRAFT BARON THAT LANDED GEAR-UP. INCIDENT HAS NOT
BEEN ENTERED INTO ENGINE LOG.
OIL DRAINED AND SHOWED NO SIGN OF CONTAMINATION.
OIL-PAN DROPPED AND VISUAL INSPECTION SHOWED NO SIGN OF DAMAGE.
MY FEELING IS THAT THIS ENGINE DID NOT SUFFER ANY DAMAGE AS THE RESULT
OF THE ACCIDENT.
COULD BE USED IN A/C, AIRBOAT, OR HOVERCRAFT.
PRICE $5,000 USD; YOU PAY SHIPPING.
ENGINE #3
LYCOMING IO-540 G1D5
S/N L-9927-48
TTSO 5.43
COMPLETE LOGS
PROP #1
HARTZELL HC-92WK-1DW
TTSO 2.12
S/N S/N AC-206
PRICE-ENGINE & PROP $18,000 USD. YOU PAY SHIPPING.
THIS IS HOW THE ENGINE WAS DESCRIBED TO ME:
=9C. purchased the engine and prop from Westair
International Company, Monument, CO 80132 Jim Cullen is the owner. (719)
481-2286 He sold a number of these engines and was recommended to me by
Murphy. They thought this was a perfect engine for their plane. I called
a fellow who bought one from him to check up on his transaction. He was
very pleased with Jim and the engine and prop. (His name is John
Knutson, Chicago, (312) 642 0335 home (312) 383 1300 x 104 work) I
believe he was putting it into his homebuilt. I haven't talked to him in
ten years so I don't know if the numbers are still good. The engine
arrived as promised and is complete with magnetos, harness, fuel pump,
Bendix injection system, alternator and starter. It is preserved, and
includes platinum spark plugs (not installed--the plug holes have the
things in them that absorb moisture--I can't remember what they are
called!) There are three tech manuals also. It is still in the shipping
crate which has always been in my heated shop. I looked in it today and
it looks good. The IO-540 G1D5 engine serial number is L-9927-48. It is
rated as 290 HP, max rpm 2575. The Hartzell Propeller Model HC-92WK-1DW
S/N AC-206 The engine has a total of 799.22 hours since new. It has 5.43
hours since overhaul. The propeller has a total of 731.12 with 2.12
since overhaul. There are two complete log books for the engine and one
for the propeller.
My concern before buying was that they came out of an IAR 823 airplane
which was a plane used by the Romanian Air Force! (I Googled it and it
looks like a Mooney to me.) I checked with several engine building
people (including the company that overhauled my Cessna engine) who told
me the overhaul facility in Romania is noted for quality services. (BOAC
had them do all their engine maintenance.) A fellow on the Murphy group,
George Coy (who now sells M14P radials and was building a Moose--put
this IO-540 in his plane. I asked him why not use one of his radials and
he said he was going to put it on floats in Vermont and could not have
any oil dripping into their pristine lakes. I guess coffee cans wired
under the jugs does not meet environmental standards for catching 100%
of the oil!
The log books are all in Romanian but I had someone go over them with me
(they spoke Romanian) and they are very detailed and complete. I was
going to sit down with this person and rewrite each entry but haven't
yet. I got a new English engine log from Jim Cullen--I'm not sure it is
really necessary to translate the old ones. I feel comfortable with the
accuracy of the logs and the work that has been done. A mechanic where I
get my Cessna serviced was interested in using the engine for his tow
plane--checked out the engine and logs, said it looked good but then
found his mounts or something were different and it wouldn't fit. He
offered my $20,000 for it! (I should have paid for his new mounts!) Hope
this is the info you needed--I think it is the right motor for the
Murphy. I've watched a friend mess with a M14 radial in his Moose but
his struggles with the cowl, oil leaks, air start, parts, mounts and
extra fuel burn, etc. etc. convinced me a good old 290 HP Lycoming was
what I felt most comfortable with.=9D
Michael Orth
Beaver Valley, British Columbia, Canada
mosurf@xplornet.com
(250) 243-0013
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings
at AirVenture
<jack@bedfordlandings.com>
Tal,
I would suggest you keep an eye out for a good deal on an engine (unless
you
are planning on buying a new engine). I was able to find a very good
deal
on an O-540-A1D5 from a Piper Aztec on eBay a couple of years ago. The
engine has 60 hours SMOH and I got it, the logs, and the entire firewall
forward assembly from the Aztec (including alterhator, starter and
vacuum
pump) for $13,000.
I had planned to buy a core of an IO-540 for about $12K and then put
$15K in
new parts in it, overhauling it myself. Even though I wasn't sure what
I
was getting with this eBay purchase, I felt it was worth it for the
money
just to have as a core. I was surprised and pleased to see that it was
better than advertized, with new Millenium Cylinders, new Slick mags and
good shops used for the overhaul. So good deals are out there - you
just
need to look for them
Now I just need to get back to work on the project.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Wings and Tail done. Need to buy the Fuselage Kit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 1:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at
AirVenture
Hi Tal,
As Carl said, order avionics last. They change so fast that anything you
buy
today will be obsolete before you fly. Also - contrary to everything
else -
they are becoming less expensive or more capable (your choice).
As he noted, you may save a few dollars shipping if you order the finish
kit
(same kit, slow or quick build) with the QB wings and fuselage. But you
will
need storage space for it. In the past (2008) the QB fuselage and wings
could have backlogs as long as 4 months. Call Vans and ask for the
current
status (I think it's on their web site but may not be the latest info).
Finally, the engine. What is your plan? If you were hoping to find a
good
used one they are rare, you just have to watch constantly. If an
overhaul,
ask your overhauler about lead times and time to find a useable core. If
factory new, you have a choice. These things have been inflating faster
than
the stock market, so you may consider buying it and the prop (Vans
offers a
$1K discount if you buy both at the same time) during this year's
OSH/AirVenture. They usually have a special, like free shipping and free
long term preservation oil. Otherwise, engine lead times are a few
months.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421714#421714
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
This engine will create a weight and balance problem for you. It has
angle valve cylinders which weigh approx 8 lbs more percylinder than the
parallel valve engines, or almost 50 lbs extra on the front of the
plane. 290 hp well exceeds Vans maximum hp for the airframe. It is a
high compression engine meaning nothing less than 100LL is sufficient.
Get the descriptions of all Lyc parallel valve engines so that you know
which ones are acceptable and won't need a lot of changes to fit.
I can send you a spreadsheet with that info,
On 4/7/2014 1:38 PM, Michael Orth wrote:
> IO-540 G1D5
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine |
compartment
Just returned from SnF so this may be 'old news'. I have an abundance
of fittings for the stainless-braid covered teflon hose, so I cut my
Vans hose to put my floscan in the middle. First sign of disaster is
that the Vans hose is purple, not white, and second is that the hole in
the 'cone' is too small for the purple hose. Crap. Now I have 'lost'
the 90* fitting that attaches to the fuel servo. My local hydraulics
shop tried to put a fitting on the purple hose and failed.
Linn
On 4/2/2014 8:29 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
> Thanks Geoff. The idea of taking the existing hose and having it cut
> and refitted makes sense.
>
> Bill "at 431.9 and flying" Watson
>
> On 4/2/2014 10:27 AM, Geoff Combs wrote:
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> If I remember correctly I took my original line and had them cut it
>> and add the new fittings as need and then
>>
>> Cut to the new lengths.
>>
>> There is a place nearby that does all types of custom hoses.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> Geoff Combs
>>
>> Aerosport Modeling & Design
>>
>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
>>
>> Canal, Winchester, Ohio 43110
>>
>> 614-834-5227
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carlos Trigo
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 01, 2014 4:46 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Need help with FloScan re-location from
>> tunnel to engine compartment
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> I don't have the engine nearby, so I can't confirm what I am going to
>> ask.
>>
>> You installed the "red cube" in the fuel line between the throttle
>> body and the fuel spider, right? Is that fuel line included with the
>> engine?
>>
>> I'm asking because it seems that fuel line is not included in the FF
>> kit from Van's.
>>
>> Do you happen to have the specifications (diameter, lenght and
>> fittings) of those 2 fuel lines to which the red cube is attached to?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Geoff Combs
>> *Sent:* tera-feira, 1 de Abril de 2014 14:15
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Need help with FloScan re-location from
>> tunnel to engine compartment
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Here are some pictures that might help. 430 hrs and working great
>>
>> Geoff Combs
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Watson
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 30, 2014 4:47 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Need help with FloScan re-location from
>> tunnel to engine compartment
>>
>> Thanks, that helps.
>>
>> Regarding the 90 degree fitting; the 90degree fitting shown on your
>> old hose is the "full flow" type according to Don@Airflow, and that's
>> okay. The fitting you want to avoid is the 90 degree fitting where
>> there is no curve. That type of fitting will impede the free flow of
>> fuel. (I'm just repeating what Don told our class a few weeks ago).
>>
>> On 3/30/2014 1:57 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>>
>> Yes,
>>
>> I went through the same thing after talking to Don @ Airflow, I
>> have the Floscan and "mounted " it @ the front corner of the
>> engine case
>> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%20FF4%20Fuel%20System/slides/DSC04976.html.
>> I used a mounting bracket fabbed out of alu similar to:
>> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%20FF4%20Fuel%20System/slides/DSC04980.html.
>> I ordered 2 new hoses to replace this:
>> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%20FF4%20Fuel%20System/slides/DSC04978.html.
>> The hose the connects the servo and the flow scan has a right
>> angle fitting where it connects to the floscan. There is a
>> caution some where about avoiding that, but the configuration
>> works flawlessly with no fluctuations.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bill Watson
>> <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> It looks like the transducer is 'unmounted' in this case and
>> just supported by the fuel hoses. I'm thinking of doing the
>> same. Anyone with experience using a fuel hose supported
>> Flowscan?
>> (do not archive)
>>
>> On 3/29/2014 2:04 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
>>
>> <rv10@sinkrate.com <mailto:rv10@sinkrate.com>>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Mark Cooper's blog has some pics and a description of his
>> mounting in the
>> similar location.
>>
>> http://myrv10factory.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/red-cube-relocation-garmin-gtn
>> -750-tx-fixed-par100ex-music-limitations-and-afs-screen-tweaks/
>>
>> -Ben
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 6:42 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV10-List: Need help with FloScan re-location
>> from tunnel to engine
>> compartment
>>
>>
>> Can anyone point me to any installation pictures of
>> FloScan installations
>> where the unit is mounted between the fuel controller and
>> the spider? Any
>> links or pics appreciated.
>>
>> Background:
>> I've decided to change the location of my fuel flow unit
>> from the tunnel to
>> between the fuel controller and the spider. I've seen a
>> few pictures of
>> other installations but I know I've seen some I can't
>> find at the moment.
>>
>> I've gotten quite comfortable with the tunnel
>> installation. There's no
>> doubt that it's a bit inaccurate with the boost pump on
>> but that's not
>> really a problem.
>>
>> However, the folks at Airflow pointed out 2 other issues
>> that I'm in fact
>> experiencing:
>> 1) Fuel flow readings fluctuate a bit, as recorded by my
>> GRT system.
>> It's only plus/minus .2GPH but it limits the accuracy of
>> my nozzle tuning
>> efforts. I'm tuned up pretty good right now but I'd like
>> to improve it a
>> bit more.
>> 2) During full power climbs my fuel pressure drops a bit
>> below where it
>> should and that causes me to turn on my boost pump for
>> short periods of time
>> midway up during my climb outs. I can't recite the exact
>> reasons for that
>> as described by Don Rivera at Airflow, but it's related
>> to the restriction
>> of flow sensor and it's location between the tank and the
>> engine driven fuel
>> pump. As I understand it, it's best to have as few
>> restrictions as possible
>> upstream of the fuel pump. And having inadequate fuel
>> pressure during full
>> power operations is undesirable.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> 04/01/14
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | RV10 Measurements for PowerTow Tug |
I am planning on ordering the 65ez tug from PowerTow. They asked for certain measurements
for the width, and attachment configuration. Has anyone ordered a
tug from them that can provide the measurements to me as I am currently 1000
miles away from my aircraft and wont be able to get the measurements for about
2 weeks.
By the way any comments , good or bad, on PowerTow are appreciated.
Thanks
Niko
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Measurements for PowerTow Tug |
See attached for what I sent them.
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Nikolaos Napoli <napolin@me.com> wrote:
>
> I am planning on ordering the 65ez tug from PowerTow. They asked for
> certain measurements for the width, and attachment configuration. Has
> anyone ordered a tug from them that can provide the measurements to me as I
> am currently 1000 miles away from my aircraft and wont be able to get the
> measurements for about 2 weeks.
>
> By the way any comments , good or bad, on PowerTow are appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Niko
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
Message 28
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|
Sam: I sent an email direct to your address but have no reply. BTW, Sunday,
I landed at Montgomery, CA (KMYF) for the brunch at 94th Aero Squadron
there. Coming in I noticed an RV-10 leaving, is it anyone on the list?
Couldn't see the tail no. but it was a nice looking plane.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ospreysammy
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2014 6:01 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in Yuma?
Fellow builders and fliers, I am going to be in Yuma, AZ for the next few
weeks and if there are any builders in the area I would like to meet up and
see your project if you don't mind. Thank you for your time.
--------
Sam Clark
Builder # 40972
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
...there are voice warnings? !!!
I need to get out more. I've been flying for 2.5 years and my panel is
at least 4 years old/behind so...
From an IFR backup perspective, the separate AP can be a very good
thing. It's easy to overlook but probably one of the most useful backup
tools and modes.
I've got 3 GRT HXs and the fact that their doc has been so far behind
had been a frustration but not sure it's really all that different than
the 'fully' doc'd Garmin G400/500 series. You can't really fly them
effectively until you've done a deep dive in Youtube for the many
tutorials on how to really exploit the features. Garmin certainly
didn't provide the support - maybe that's different with the newer
stuff. In GRT's case, never hesitate to call Carlos with a question.
He KNOWS the answer.
On the plus side, I've consistently found GRTs software updates rich in
new functions and yet rock solid and stable in operation despite the
warnings. That's a very good thing.
Putting together one's panel is an awful lot fun.
On 4/7/2014 3:56 PM, Stein Bruch wrote:
>
> I can buy that reasoning and also respect that position. There are times
> when I dislike "lola" scolding me, but then there are other times when I'm
> cruising along not looking at the panel where I find it a help. I find it
> useful to at least be able to turn her/him on or off depending on how I feel
> that day! Normally with the systems that have voice warnings, they don't
> all start yelling at you when you first boot up the system though...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 2:26 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen)
>
>
> Stein,
>
> Although I usually agree with you, not this time. Between the flashing
> master caution light (which is really bright) and the the flashing red on
> the screen(s) (whether it's oil pressure, CHT, etc.) I don't see how anyone
> could ignore the engine warnings, and I do not want a voice yelling at me
> "oil pressure, oil pressure" if I boot up the EIS (which I do) prior to
> engine start.
>
> OTOH, the one audio warning they do need is for angle of attack, since the
> most critical time (landing approach) is also when you are concentrating the
> most out the windscreen. The D-6 variable warning tone is perfect in this
> regard.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421735#421735
>
>
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