Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:42 AM - Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 (Bill Watson)
2. 07:45 AM - Re: N24EV flew today KFFZ (Mike Whisky)
3. 07:51 AM - Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 (Kelly McMullen)
4. 07:59 AM - Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 (Bill Watson)
5. 07:59 AM - Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 (Bob Wilson)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: N24EV flew today KFFZ (Ben Westfall)
7. 09:03 AM - Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 (Don McDonald)
8. 01:13 PM - Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 (Patrick Pulis)
9. 02:07 PM - Re: Airflow Performance install (rvdave)
10. 06:37 PM - Re: Airflow Performance install (rvdave)
11. 10:35 PM - Re: Re: Airflow Performance install (Bob Leffler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 |
On 5/11/2014 2:16 PM, JimVillani wrote:
>
> Don,
>
> I am having a hell of a time starting my IO540 on a Hot Start, no
> problem when it is cold.
>
> What is your secret?
>
> Please advise..
>
>
I'm coming up on 500 hours with a stock Vans-sourced engine. Here's my
cold and hot start procedure. Works without fail unless I have a brain
fart and do something else (it happens).
Cold Start: Crack the throttle (1/4" on quadrant), boost pump on, open
mixture for 5 seconds (or more) and close mixture. Crank until it fires
and smoothly open mixture. If it doesn't fire after 1 or 2 prop turns,
stop cranking, open mixture for a couple more seconds, close and crank.
Can't remember having to ever repeat that again. (Rather than the 5
seconds, watching the fuel flow meter while the mixture is open is more
effective. Just open until the fuel flow goes up and then stabilizes.
Then close and start. No 2nd tries required when following this method).
Hot Start: Crack throttle, boost pump on, crank. Can takes 3 or 4 turns
until it starts to fire, roughly. Smoothly open mixture.
All movements are smooth. I only open mixture to the position slightly
richer than I use for taxi, then once started, I lean it to my normal
taxi setting (and LOP setting).
If the throttle isn't cracked, neither method results in a start. I
don't touch throttle until it starts, then I simply try to keep it
around 1000rpms
I do a fair number of hot starts - landing at home and filling up before
taxi to hangar (definite hot start). Or, taxi to fill-up before taking
off (not sure that qualifies but I use the hot start procedure). My
home base is in Durham NC, so the ambient temps can be sky high.
I'm not sure exactly who gave me these instructions. Might have been in
the Van's doc but whatever... I've never been able to figure out what
the big deal is with hot starts. This is my first fuel injected engine.
Bill
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: N24EV flew today KFFZ |
Congrats!!!
Now the fun part starts. The plane looks slick, like it!
Enjoy the test flights
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423216#423216
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 |
You would get similar results, but smoother start if you left the boost
pump off.
The mixture in the cylinder during a hot start is more often rich than
not, because of fuel being boiled out of line from flow divider to nozzle.
The mechanical pump brings up the system fuel pressure within a couple
revolutions. If you simply shut down with throttle at 1000 rpm, and
leave it alone, it will be just right for the subsequent hot start.
Just my experience flying a Bendix fuel injected Mooney in AZ for over
15 yrs.
On 5/12/2014 7:41 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
> On 5/11/2014 2:16 PM, JimVillani wrote:
>>
>> Don,
>>
>> I am having a hell of a time starting my IO540 on a Hot Start, no
>> problem when it is cold.
>>
>> What is your secret?
>>
>> Please advise..
>>
>>
> I'm coming up on 500 hours with a stock Vans-sourced engine. Here's my
> cold and hot start procedure. Works without fail unless I have a
> brain fart and do something else (it happens).
>
> Cold Start: Crack the throttle (1/4" on quadrant), boost pump on, open
> mixture for 5 seconds (or more) and close mixture. Crank until it
> fires and smoothly open mixture. If it doesn't fire after 1 or 2 prop
> turns, stop cranking, open mixture for a couple more seconds, close
> and crank. Can't remember having to ever repeat that again. (Rather
> than the 5 seconds, watching the fuel flow meter while the mixture is
> open is more effective. Just open until the fuel flow goes up and
> then stabilizes. Then close and start. No 2nd tries required when
> following this method).
>
> Hot Start: Crack throttle, boost pump on, crank. Can takes 3 or 4
> turns until it starts to fire, roughly. Smoothly open mixture.
>
> All movements are smooth. I only open mixture to the position
> slightly richer than I use for taxi, then once started, I lean it to
> my normal taxi setting (and LOP setting).
>
> If the throttle isn't cracked, neither method results in a start. I
> don't touch throttle until it starts, then I simply try to keep it
> around 1000rpms
>
> I do a fair number of hot starts - landing at home and filling up
> before taxi to hangar (definite hot start). Or, taxi to fill-up
> before taking off (not sure that qualifies but I use the hot start
> procedure). My home base is in Durham NC, so the ambient temps can be
> sky high.
>
> I'm not sure exactly who gave me these instructions. Might have been
> in the Van's doc but whatever... I've never been able to figure out
> what the big deal is with hot starts. This is my first fuel injected
> engine.
>
> Bill
> *
>
>
> *
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 |
I don't have the Airflow product and don't have a purge valve. I do
have a cable supplier recommendation.
California Push-Pull - Chico CA http://www.push-pull.com/
I ordered replacement cables for the Van's supplied cables (quadrant
version). The Van's cables were all about an inch shorter than optimal
for my plane. After 200 hours or so, each of the 3 cables had started
to chafe or melt in various places.
I ordered Cablecraft replacements with the option of higher temp
materials. I ordered three custom lengths - the 176-VTT-2-72 (72 inch)
was $68.42. The shorter ones were less. Construction exactly matched
Vans supplied cables but with higher temp plastics.
Custom fabrication and shipment were apparently same day. Vernier and
lock fittings seem to be options. Don't attempt to order from Web site,
just call. They know cables but don't necessarily talk aircraft.
If I were ordering any cables, this is where I'm going for price,
service, and quality. I love ACS.
On 5/11/2014 7:50 AM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
> Are there any builders out there who have fitted the Airflow
> Performance purge valve to their RV-10, who could please indicate:
>
> 1. the approximate length of the cable used;
>
> 2. the supplier of the cable; and
>
> 3. if they used a cable with some form of locking mechanism on the
> cable to prevent actuation of the purge valve in flight, such as the
> A-750 VERNIER CONTROL cable sold by Aircraft Spruce:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/a750.php
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 |
Kelly, You are absolutely correct. You had to burn an hour out of the mai
ns (Tip tanks) before going to the a x tanks. Each engine returned fuel t
o its respective main. But the point is the fuel vaporization in the lines
is the root cause of the problem. I'm looking at building an RV-10 so thi
s "hot start" issue is of interest.
The other problem with an over primed engine is a stack fire. I had that ha
ppen in a Cessna 180 which was fortunately contained but could have gotten
out of hand. If the engine starts it's a non-event but if it doesn't ---
things can sometimes get nasty. I'm just looking for a safe but effective
solution as I know that will be a problem for me At KSAW you have to taxi
to the fuel pumps then re-start and taxi to the hangar area so for me it wi
ll be an issue. You can get a truck to fuel you but it's $.30 more per gal
lon
Bob Wilson
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10
Be aware that Continental fuel injection is COMPLETELY different than Bendi
x or AFM fuel injection, and technique used with it is completely different
. Continental injection has a continuous return line, which allows purging
every line up to the fuel servo by recirculating fuel from the tank. It als
o requires management of which tank fuel is burned from to make room for th
e return fuel.
The flooded start method I described I consider a last resort, and should n
ot be used routinely. 1st, having the engine fire up to near full power has
safety concerns and is hard on the prop and the engine. 2nd, excess fuel i
n the cylinder washes oil of the cylinder wall, accelerating wear.
On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Bob Wilson <bob@rjw.cc<mailto:bob@rjw.cc>>
wrote:
Don - The basic problem with hot starts is the vaporization of fuel in the
lines to and from the spider or distribution block. I have not had experie
nce with the IO-540 but the same problem existed in the IO-470's of which I
had two in a Cessna 310. In that case it was mixture at idle cut off thro
ttle at mid-point and hit the primer (the boost pump with a momentary switc
h) for about 10 seconds. The fuel would circulate and eliminate the vapor.
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10
Message 6
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| Subject: | N24EV flew today KFFZ |
Nice Job!
I've never seen anyone paint around all the windows with a black outline
like that... pretty cool look.
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
(http://s125.photobucket.com/user/myronnelson/media/ev1_zps23cb74c3.jpg.html
)
(http://s125.photobucket.com/user/myronnelson/media/photo_zpsbdae493a.jpg.ht
ml)
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423137#423137
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 |
Kind of off topic, but Kim and I are flying to Salina KS this Thurs to meee
t up with a group on an auto rally.- Then the next day we are flying down
to Sundance Airpark outside OKC.- Anybody located on or around these 2 a
irports?=0ADon Mc=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: B
ill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com =0ASent: M
onday, May 12, 2014 9:41 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Airflow Performance P
urge Valve Fitted to RV-10=0A =0A=0A=0AOn 5/11/2014 2:16 PM, JimVillani wro
te:=0A=0A =0A>Don,=0A>I am having a hell of a time starting my IO540 on a H
ot Start, no problem when it is cold.=0A>What is your secret?=0A>Please adv
ise..=0A>-=0A>=0AI'm coming up on 500 hours with a stock Vans-sourced eng
ine.- Here's my cold and hot start procedure.- Works without fail unles
s I have a brain fart and do something else (it happens).=0A=0ACold Start:
Crack the throttle (1/4" on quadrant), boost pump on,=0A open mixture fo
r 5 seconds (or more) and close mixture.- Crank until=0A it fires and
smoothly open mixture.- If it doesn't fire after 1 or 2=0A prop turns,
stop cranking, open mixture for a couple more seconds,=0A close and cra
nk.- Can't remember having to ever repeat that again.-=0A (Rather th
an the 5 seconds, watching the fuel flow meter while the=0A mixture is o
pen is more effective.- Just open until the fuel flow=0A goes up and t
hen stabilizes.- Then close and start.- No 2nd tries=0A required whe
n following this method).=0A=0AHot Start: Crack throttle, boost pump on, cr
ank.- Can takes 3 or 4=0A turns until it starts to fire, roughly.- S
moothly open mixture.=0A=0AAll movements are smooth.- I only open mixture
to the position=0A slightly richer than I use for taxi, then once start
ed, I lean it to=0A my normal taxi setting (and LOP setting).=0A=0AIf th
e throttle isn't cracked, neither method results in a start.- I=0A don
't touch throttle until it starts, then I simply try to keep it=0A aroun
d 1000rpms=0A=0AI do a fair number of hot starts - landing at home and fill
ing up=0A before taxi to hangar (definite hot start).- Or, taxi to fil
l-up=0A before taking off (not sure that qualifies but I use the hot sta
rt=0A procedure).- My home base is in Durham NC, so the ambient temps
can=0A be sky high.=0A=0AI'm not sure exactly who gave me these instruct
ions.- Might have=0A been in the Van's doc but whatever... I've never
been able to figure=0A out what the big deal is with hot starts.- This
=====
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance Purge Valve Fitted to RV-10 |
Thanks to you all, what a mine of information you are. Just pure gold.
Warm regards
Patrick
> On 13 May 2014, at 0:28, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I don't have the Airflow product and don't have a purge valve. I do have a
cable supplier recommendation.
>
> California Push-Pull - Chico CA http://www.push-pull.com/
> I ordered replacement cables for the Van's supplied cables (quadrant versi
on). The Van's cables were all about an inch shorter than optimal for my pl
ane. After 200 hours or so, each of the 3 cables had started to chafe
or melt in various places.
>
> I ordered Cablecraft replacements with the option of higher temp materials
. I ordered three custom lengths - the 176-VTT-2-72 (72 inch) was $68.42. T
he shorter ones were less. Construction exactly matched Vans supplied cable
s but with higher temp plastics.
>
> Custom fabrication and shipment were apparently same day. Vernier and loc
k fittings seem to be options. Don't attempt to order from Web site, just c
all. They know cables but don't necessarily talk aircraft.
>
> If I were ordering any cables, this is where I'm going for price, service,
and quality. I love ACS.
>
>> On 5/11/2014 7:50 AM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
>> Are there any builders out there who have fitted the Airflow Performance p
urge valve to their RV-10, who could please indicate:
>>
>> 1. the approximate length of the cable used;
>>
>> 2. the supplier of the cable; and
>>
>> 3. if they used a cable with some form of locking mechanism on the cable
to prevent actuation of the purge valve in flight, such as the A-750 VERNIE
R CONTROL cable sold by Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal
og/appages/a750.php
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance install |
Yes I did see that, thanks.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423236#423236
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance install |
Bob, didn't see any photos regarding red cube location or induction on your pages.
Maybe I missed them?
Does the vans cable bracket get used with AP vert induction mount?
Still searching for install photos of AP throttle body,brackets & cables. Any
photos or links appreciated.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423242#423242
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Performance install |
Try looking in the section labeled firewall forward, but unless you also are installing
Rod Bower's Ram Air mod, it won't help you much. My fuel controller
is mounted horizontally and everything is in a different location.
AFP has their own set of mounting hardware that comes with the fm-200. I didn't
use the vans bracket, but then again, my fuel controller is horizontal, not
vertical. I also didn't use much of the brackets in the AFP kit either for
the same reason.
It sounds like you don't have a copy of the AFP manual. It has quite a few photos
of installations. I don't have a copy on my iPad, or I would send a you
a copy. At this point of the build, nothing is prescriptive. The AFP manual
shows you examples that you have to adapt to your installation. If you don't
have the manual, give Don a call.
A quick search of Matronics found this thread with pictures of a very common location
for the fuel sensor.
http://www.matronics.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=421359&highlight=&sid=3afa4fba9d5e9179e9fdd4e8d529db66
Sent from my iPad
> On May 12, 2014, at 9:33 PM, "rvdave" <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bob, didn't see any photos regarding red cube location or induction on your pages.
Maybe I missed them?
>
> Does the vans cable bracket get used with AP vert induction mount?
>
> Still searching for install photos of AP throttle body,brackets & cables. Any
photos or links appreciated.
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 flying
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423242#423242
>
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