Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:07 AM - Re: alt air (Linn Walters)
2. 06:18 AM - Re: alt air (Carl Froehlich)
3. 06:31 AM - Re: alt air (Michael Kraus)
4. 06:44 AM - Re: alt air (Linn Walters)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: alt air (Kelly McMullen)
6. 01:49 PM - Re: alt air (Linn Walters)
7. 05:09 PM - 116 KR (pilotdds)
8. 11:56 PM - Re: 116 KR (woxofswa)
Message 1
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On 5/23/2014 10:55 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> This is what I was trying to describe. If the attachment makes it through.
It did. Like you said, you don't know if it's going to work when you
need it. Things get stuck with age. A round piece of rubber held in the
middle would work similarly, but how thick/stiff does the rubber need to
be ...... too much engineering for a simple guy like me. I like
positive open/close.
Linn
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com
> <mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>> wrote:
>
> What timing! Friday mornings the airport hangar rats gather to
> discuss aviation. There's a -7 and two -10 builders. Both the -7
> builder and I (-10 if you don't do math well) were discussing the
> FAB and the connection to the lower cowl. The subject turned to
> carb heat and alt. air. I dislike the Van's approach to alt. air
> and we brainstormed .... how about a butterfly? Hmmm. I came
> home and this is what I came up with ....
> if the picture comes through.
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 2
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One thought - in all probability few of us will ever have a need to use
alternate engine air. As such the design needs to be for something that
opens, but closing can wait for landing if need be.
I posted a note a while back on modifying the FAB to prevent a recurring
problem I had on the 8A, the filter ablating the bottom of the fiberglass
air box and the filter deforming from a cylinder to a cone. Both issues
lead to the filter loosing contact with the top plate. Here is the original
post:
This is a mod to the air box I did on the RV-10, and just now back fitted
onto the RV-8A.
Over the years with the RV-8A I've had to repair the air box and replace the
filter. As you can see from the first photo, the bottom of the filter
deforms (curves in). This tends to shorten the filter such that it drops
out of the top and impairs the seal with the top plate. I also had to add
fiberglass to the bottom of the air box as the relative motion between the
bottom of the air filter the air box eroded away the fiberglass bottom.
The fix was to add a .032" aluminum plate to the bottom of the air box. The
plate eliminates the bottom erosion and the added brackets hold the filter
shape. A side benefit is that alternate air door now sandwiches the bottom
fiberglass between two piece of metal making a sturdier install. I also
took the step to add proseal between the aluminum plate and the air box
bottom.
One other mod done for the RV-10 was to flip FAB top plate over so it goes
over the fiberglass bottom portion. This allowed me to use the larger K&N
E-1000 filter (last photo). I just finished the second annual on the RV10
and can report the filter has retained it shape.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: alt air
On 5/23/2014 10:55 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
This is what I was trying to describe. If the attachment makes it through.
It did. Like you said, you don't know if it's going to work when you need
it. Things get stuck with age. A round piece of rubber held in the middle
would work similarly, but how thick/stiff does the rubber need to be ......
too much engineering for a simple guy like me. I like positive open/close.
Linn
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
What timing! Friday mornings the airport hangar rats gather to discuss
aviation. There's a -7 and two -10 builders. Both the -7 builder and I
(-10 if you don't do math well) were discussing the FAB and the connection
to the lower cowl. The subject turned to carb heat and alt. air. I dislike
the Van's approach to alt. air and we brainstormed .... how about a
butterfly? Hmmm. I came home and this is what I came up with ....
if the picture comes through.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
05/23/14
Message 3
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In 16 years of flying, I've never needed to use alternate air. I'm happy wi
th Vans simple solution. I don't intend to ever need it and if I do, I know
it'll work.
For me, it's just not something that needs re-engineered....
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 23, 2014, at 5:56 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> What timing! Friday mornings the airport hangar rats gather to discuss av
iation. There's a -7 and two -10 builders. Both the -7 builder and I (-10 i
f you don't do math well) were discussing the FAB and the connection to the l
ower cowl. The subject turned to carb heat and alt. air. I dislike the Van
's approach to alt. air and we brainstormed .... how about a butterfly? Hmm
m. I came home and this is what I came up with ....
> if the picture comes through.
>
> The Van's alt air fitting opening is 2.5" which has a 4.9" square area.
> The 'plank' is 1" X 5" and the 'tube' is 2.5" dia.
>
> I'll probably use aluminum for the tube. ACS 6061 T6 03-38320 is only 4.3
5/ft. We talked about the butterfly being an ellipse rather than a disk so i
t seals better.
>
> There's plenty of room between the FAB and the lower cowl on the RV-10. T
he 'dot' is centered on the hole in the FAB. Some fillet work and I'll glas
s it right on the FAB.
>
> Not an automatic alt air .... but better than Van's .... IMHO
> Linn
>
>
> <ALTERNATE AIR MOD 03.JPG>
>> On 5/23/2014 4:49 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone attempted to engineer an automatic alternate air?? My fuel inj
ected Mooney has such, with a round disk attached to a hole cut so that ther
e is a metal cross with 4 openings rather than open hole. The disk covers th
at, is held in place with a single bolt with a spring on it pressing the dis
k in closed position. 3-4 lb force lifts the disk enough for air to bypass t
he filter from inside cowling. Only downside is you don't really know whethe
r it has opened or not. I've seen 2 place RVs that had similar arrangement w
ith hinged rectangular door that was spring loaded.
>>> On 5/23/2014 9:20 AM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>>> If you change the hole locations you will likely change your cable lengt
hs and it is no easy trick to figure what those lengths need to be (ask me h
ow I know).
>>>
>>> Jeff Carpenter
>>> 40304
>>>
>>> just about ready for paint.
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 23, 2014, at 8:22 AM, Sandra & Rick Lark wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all, wondering if anyone has recommendations on any better locations
for the throttle, prop, mixture and alternate air penetrations?
>>>> I=99m just about to bolt my engine mount on for the last time and
I haven=99t drilled any holes for those 4 items yet. I`m wondering i
f the throttle and alternate air holes could be below the other 2, or if it m
akes any difference at all?
>>>> Thx, Rick
>>>> #40956
>>>> Southampton. Ont
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>> blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
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>>
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>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> 05/23/14
>
Message 4
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That filter is ugly! I saw pics from other builders that were just as bad.
IMHO I think the 'deforming' of the filter may be due to the rubber on
the filter having a problem with 100LL ..... or ethanol mogas .....
The filter just wasn't made for that environment.
I'm also adding a aluminum plate to the bottom of the FAB to counter the
FG wearing by the filter .... saw some more ugly pics on this list. I'll
add a drain hole next to the filter so it drips down into my 'new' alt
air box.
We install a lot of things that we may never need .... heated pitot,
ELT, windshield defrosters, fire extinguishers .... to name a few.
However, when we do need them they're invaluable ......
Linn
On 5/24/2014 9:17 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> One thought -- in all probability few of us will ever have a need to
> use alternate engine air. As such the design needs to be for
> something that opens, but closing can wait for landing if need be.
>
> I posted a note a while back on modifying the FAB to prevent a
> recurring problem I had on the 8A, the filter ablating the bottom of
> the fiberglass air box and the filter deforming from a cylinder to a
> cone. Both issues lead to the filter loosing contact with the top
> plate. Here is the original post:
>
> This is a mod to the air box I did on the RV-10, and just now back
> fitted onto the RV-8A.
>
> Over the years with the RV-8A I've had to repair the air box and
> replace the filter. As you can see from the first photo, the bottom
> of the filter deforms (curves in). This tends to shorten the filter
> such that it drops out of the top and impairs the seal with the top
> plate. I also had to add fiberglass to the bottom of the air box as
> the relative motion between the bottom of the air filter the air box
> eroded away the fiberglass bottom.
>
> The fix was to add a .032" aluminum plate to the bottom of the air
> box. The plate eliminates the bottom erosion and the added brackets
> hold the filter shape. A side benefit is that alternate air door now
> sandwiches the bottom fiberglass between two piece of metal making a
> sturdier install. I also took the step to add proseal between the
> aluminum plate and the air box bottom.
>
> One other mod done for the RV-10 was to flip FAB top plate over so it
> goes over the fiberglass bottom portion. This allowed me to use the
> larger K&N E-1000 filter (last photo). I just finished the second
> annual on the RV10 and can report the filter has retained it shape.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Linn Walters
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:06 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: alt air
>
> On 5/23/2014 10:55 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> This is what I was trying to describe. If the attachment makes it
> through.
>
> It did. Like you said, you don't know if it's going to work when you
> need it. Things get stuck with age. A round piece of rubber held in
> the middle would work similarly, but how thick/stiff does the rubber
> need to be ...... too much engineering for a simple guy like me. I
> like positive open/close.
> Linn
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com
> <mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>> wrote:
>
> What timing! Friday mornings the airport hangar rats gather to
> discuss aviation. There's a -7 and two -10 builders. Both the -7
> builder and I (-10 if you don't do math well) were discussing the FAB
> and the connection to the lower cowl. The subject turned to carb heat
> and alt. air. I dislike the Van's approach to alt. air and we
> brainstormed .... how about a butterfly? Hmmm. I came home and this
> is what I came up with ....
> if the picture comes through.
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> 05/23/14
>
> * *http://www.matronic================
> http://forums.matronics.com- List Contribution Web generous
> nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c
> * *
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 5
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The Mooney alt air is very easy to check for freedom to operate, just
push on the plate anytime lower cowling is open, or hook up a fish scale
to it when air filter is off to verify the tension is within specs. The
air pressure needed to open a given area of flat plate is pretty easy to
calculate. I've never found any problem with it sticking when checking
it. I like not needing to run an extra cable through the firewall and
not needing an extra knob some where on the panel.
On 5/24/2014 5:05 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
> On 5/23/2014 10:55 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> This is what I was trying to describe. If the attachment makes it
>> through.
> It did. Like you said, you don't know if it's going to work when you
> need it. Things get stuck with age. A round piece of rubber held in
> the middle would work similarly, but how thick/stiff does the rubber
> need to be ...... too much engineering for a simple guy like me. I
> like positive open/close.
> Linn
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com
>> <mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>> wrote:
>>
>> What timing! Friday mornings the airport hangar rats gather to
>> discuss aviation. There's a -7 and two -10 builders. Both the
>> -7 builder and I (-10 if you don't do math well) were discussing
>> the FAB and the connection to the lower cowl. The subject turned
>> to carb heat and alt. air. I dislike the Van's approach to alt.
>> air and we brainstormed .... how about a butterfly? Hmmm. I
>> came home and this is what I came up with ....
>> if the picture comes through.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> 05/23/14
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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On 5/24/2014 11:05 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> The Mooney alt air is very easy to check for freedom to operate, just
> push on the plate anytime lower cowling is open, or hook up a fish
> scale to it when air filter is off to verify the tension is within
> specs. The air pressure needed to open a given area of flat plate is
> pretty easy to calculate. I've never found any problem with it
> sticking when checking it. I like not needing to run an extra cable
> through the firewall and not needing an extra knob some where on the
> panel.
I understand and agree on both counts. I didn't know anything about the
Van's alt air setup when I ran the control ......
Linn
>
> On 5/24/2014 5:05 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>> On 5/23/2014 10:55 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>> This is what I was trying to describe. If the attachment makes it
>>> through.
>> It did. Like you said, you don't know if it's going to work when you
>> need it. Things get stuck with age. A round piece of rubber held in
>> the middle would work similarly, but how thick/stiff does the rubber
>> need to be ...... too much engineering for a simple guy like me. I
>> like positive open/close.
>> Linn
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com
>>> <mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What timing! Friday mornings the airport hangar rats gather to
>>> discuss aviation. There's a -7 and two -10 builders. Both the
>>> -7 builder and I (-10 if you don't do math well) were discussing
>>> the FAB and the connection to the lower cowl. The subject turned
>>> to carb heat and alt. air. I dislike the Van's approach to alt.
>>> air and we brainstormed .... how about a butterfly? Hmmm. I
>>> came home and this is what I came up with ....
>>> if the picture comes through.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>> 05/23/14
>>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 7
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116KR flew today-plane flew great save and except for the electronics-The G
-900 gave me a big red X,no other disapointments.pics to follow
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
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Congrats! Enjoy the fly off.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423759#423759
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