Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:03 AM - Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons (Jim Rore)
2. 12:44 AM - Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons (Jesse Saint)
3. 02:05 AM - Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out (Mike Whisky)
4. 04:31 AM - Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons (Bob Wilson)
5. 05:38 AM - Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons (Kelly McMullen)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out (Danny Riggs)
7. 06:31 AM - Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons (Danny Riggs)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out (Dave Saylor)
9. 07:24 AM - Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons (Phillip Perry)
10. 08:01 AM - Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out (Mike Whisky)
11. 09:53 AM - Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out (Gordon Anderson)
12. 10:20 AM - Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out (Mike Whisky)
13. 01:26 PM - Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons |
FYI I just flew my second 10.Both have 2 blade hartzels the old one has 2 light
speeds the new one has one.The old one has a 9 to 1 narrow deck the new one has
standard 8.5 to one compression.gross weight is 1630 and 1612.The old one is
noticeably more powerful,I don't want to give absolute numbers but there is
a difference in both climb and cruise.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 2, 2014, at 6:36 PM, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> One of the engine options I have is using 9:1 positions rather than 8:1. I understand
that there is a small HP gain with the 9:1 pistons.
>
> For those with the 9:1 pistons, is there a significant performance bump. Has
anyone had problems with detonation?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons |
The difference between 7:1 and 8.5:1 pistons at 2,575 rpm is 15 hp. I wouldn't
expect the increase to 9:1 to be more than 5-10 hp, but it is an increase. If
you're only running 100LL, which most 10's do, then you'd be fine with 9:1 and
the tbo is still 2,000 hrs.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 3, 2014, at 1:57 AM, Jim Rore <pilotdds@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> FYI I just flew my second 10.Both have 2 blade hartzels the old one has 2 light
speeds the new one has one.The old one has a 9 to 1 narrow deck the new one
has standard 8.5 to one compression.gross weight is 1630 and 1612.The old one
is noticeably more powerful,I don't want to give absolute numbers but there is
a difference in both climb and cruise.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 2, 2014, at 6:36 PM, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> One of the engine options I have is using 9:1 positions rather than 8:1. I understand
that there is a small HP gain with the 9:1 pistons.
>>
>> For those with the 9:1 pistons, is there a significant performance bump. Has
anyone had problems with detonation?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out |
Hello
I have seen now three times in the last 70h of flight that in long climb outs the
oil temp dropped within a second from 185 down to 150-155 it stays there and
recovers after leveling off most of the time back to normal within a second
or so. I believe that this must be a sensor issue as the oil temp can't change
that quickly. What is bothering me is that it only happens at the end of those
climbs at around d 8k ft. Did anybody come across something similar?
Regards
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424275#424275
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_480.jpg
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| Subject: | 9:1 Compression Pistons |
Sorry - I missed something but where is it stated that Van's doesn't recommend
a 260 HP for the RV-10??
Bob Wilson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 9:1 Compression Pistons
Les,
The standard compression is 8:5 to 1. All Lycoming engines at that compression
were certified on 91/96 octane avgas.
Most will run fine on 91-92 octane mogas. All of the angle valve higher horsepower
engines have 8.7 to 1 compression and require 100 octane avgas. So you can
pretty much be assured that 9 to 1 compression will require 100 octane. Given
that Van's does not recommend 260 hp on the airframe, the only really benefit
to more horses is climb capability.
Top speed with the 260 hp is around 210-212 mph TAS. Design flutter is
230 true air speed. How close do you want to shave that margin?
On 6/2/2014 9:36 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> One of the engine options I have is using 9:1 positions rather than 8:1. I understand
that there is a small HP gain with the 9:1 pistons.
>
> For those with the 9:1 pistons, is there a significant performance bump. Has
anyone had problems with detonation?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons |
Vans does not recommend ABOVE 260 hp. 260 hp is recommended as the maximum
and what most RV-10s have. The parallel valve IO-540 does not come from
Lycoming in stock certified form above that hp rating, but can easily be
tweaked through higher compression, porting, cold air induction, etc to
reach close to 300 hp, without using a turbo. Even turbo normalizing where
one does not operate above published 75% power output(195 hp), but
maintains it to a higher altitude, will push true airspeed up to 230 mph at
around 12,000 ft, which is cited in a Vans paper as why you are flirting
with the design limitations when you go to more horsepower.
On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 4:30 AM, Bob Wilson <bob@rjw.cc> wrote:
>
> Sorry - I missed something but where is it stated that Van's doesn't
> recommend a 260 HP for the RV-10??
>
> Bob Wilson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 1:06 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: 9:1 Compression Pistons
>
>
> Les,
> The standard compression is 8:5 to 1. All Lycoming engines at that
> compression were certified on 91/96 octane avgas.
> Most will run fine on 91-92 octane mogas. All of the angle valve higher
> horsepower engines have 8.7 to 1 compression and require 100 octane avgas.
> So you can pretty much be assured that 9 to 1 compression will require 100
> octane. Given that Van's does not recommend 260 hp on the airframe, the
> only really benefit to more horses is climb capability.
> Top speed with the 260 hp is around 210-212 mph TAS. Design flutter is
> 230 true air speed. How close do you want to shave that margin?
>
> On 6/2/2014 9:36 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > One of the engine options I have is using 9:1 positions rather than 8:1.
> I understand that there is a small HP gain with the 9:1 pistons.
> >
> > For those with the 9:1 pistons, is there a significant performance bump.
> Has anyone had problems with detonation?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
Message 6
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| Subject: | Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out |
It really sounds like a wiring problem involving the sensor. The sensor its
elf can go out of tolerance or totally go bad but intermittent problems lik
e this is usually always a wire problem. Loose connection or a semi broken
wire.
> Subject: RV10-List: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out
> From: rv-10@wellenzohn.net
> Date: Tue=2C 3 Jun 2014 02:04:29 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Hello
> I have seen now three times in the last 70h of flight that in long climb
outs the oil temp dropped within a second from 185 down to 150-155 it stays
there and recovers after leveling off most of the time back to normal with
in a second or so. I believe that this must be a sensor issue as the oil te
mp can't change that quickly. What is bothering me is that it only happens
at the end of those climbs at around d 8k ft. Did anybody come across somet
hing similar?
> Regards
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (flying)
> #511
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424275#424275
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_480.jpg
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | 9:1 Compression Pistons |
I have a Barrett with 9:1 pistons and cold air induction. The only way I ca
n get near the design limit is in a dive. No way can you get there in any k
ind of level or near level cruise. Yesterday I had to set the autopilot to
the absolute top speed and it took quite a steep dive to get to 200 kts.
Nice thing about it that you can go to gross weight and have NO problem get
ting off on a hot day. These Barretts with 9:1 and cold air induction are r
eal "hosses".
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 9:1 Compression Pistons
From: apilot2@gmail.com
Vans does not recommend ABOVE 260 hp. 260 hp is recommended as the maximum
and what most RV-10s have. The parallel valve IO-540 does not come from Lyc
oming in stock certified form above that hp rating=2C but can easily be twe
aked through higher compression=2C porting=2C cold air induction=2C etc to
reach close to 300 hp=2C without using a turbo. Even turbo normalizing wher
e one does not operate above published 75% power output(195 hp)=2C but main
tains it to a higher altitude=2C will push true airspeed up to 230 mph at a
round 12=2C000 ft=2C which is cited in a Vans paper as why you are flirting
with the design limitations when you go to more horsepower.
=0A
On Tue=2C Jun 3=2C 2014 at 4:30 AM=2C Bob Wilson <bob@rjw.cc> wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
Sorry - I missed something but where is it stated that Van's doesn't recomm
end a 260 HP for the RV-10??
=0A
=0A
Bob Wilson
=0A
=0A
=0A
-----Original Message-----
=0A
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
=0A
=0A
Sent: Tuesday=2C June 03=2C 2014 1:06 AM
=0A
=0A
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 9:1 Compression Pistons
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Les=2C
=0A
The standard compression is 8:5 to 1. All Lycoming engines at that compress
ion were certified on 91/96 octane avgas.
=0A
Most will run fine on 91-92 octane mogas. All of the angle valve higher hor
sepower engines have 8.7 to 1 compression and require 100 octane avgas. So
you can pretty much be assured that 9 to 1 compression will require 100 oct
ane. Given that Van's does not recommend 260 hp on the airframe=2C the only
really benefit to more horses is climb capability.
=0A
=0A
Top speed with the 260 hp is around 210-212 mph TAS. Design flutter is
=0A
230 true air speed. How close do you want to shave that margin?
=0A
=0A
On 6/2/2014 9:36 PM=2C Les Kearney wrote:
=0A
=0A
>
=0A
> Hi
=0A
>
=0A
> One of the engine options I have is using 9:1 positions rather than 8:1.
I understand that there is a small HP gain with the 9:1 pistons.
=0A
>
=0A
> For those with the 9:1 pistons=2C is there a significant performance bump
. Has anyone had problems with detonation?
=0A
>
=0A
> Cheers
=0A
>
=0A
> Les
=0A
>
=0A
> Sent from my iPhone
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=0A
=0A
http://forums.matronics.com
=0A
=0A
le=2C List Admin.
=0A
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
--
=0A
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out |
I had almost the exact same problem. Replaced the sensor, no help.
Finally I put a dedicated ground from as close to the sensor as possible
to the firewall. That fixed it. I have a very robust ground from the case
to the engine mount, but the OT sensor needed the additional ground.
--Dave
On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Mike Whisky <rv-10@wellenzohn.net> wrote:
>
> Hello
> I have seen now three times in the last 70h of flight that in long climb
> outs the oil temp dropped within a second from 185 down to 150-155 it stays
> there and recovers after leveling off most of the time back to normal
> within a second or so. I believe that this must be a sensor issue as the
> oil temp can't change that quickly. What is bothering me is that it only
> happens at the end of those climbs at around d 8k ft. Did anybody come
> across something similar?
> Regards
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (flying)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424275#424275
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_480.jpg
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons |
Mine produced 285HP with one mag and one lightspeed. Still not flying, but
those came from a break-in session, in a test cell, prior to being
delivered to me. I was still given a full warranty and TBO of 2,000.
Phil
On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49@msn.com> wrote:
> I have a Barrett with 9:1 pistons and cold air induction. The only way I
> can get near the design limit is in a dive. No way can you get there in any
> kind of level or near level cruise. Yesterday I had to set the autopilot to
> the absolute top speed and it took quite a steep dive to get to 200 kts.
> Nice thing about it that you can go to gross weight and have NO problem
> getting off on a hot day. These Barretts with 9:1 and cold air induction
> are real "hosses".
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 05:38:00 -0700
>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: 9:1 Compression Pistons
> From: apilot2@gmail.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Vans does not recommend ABOVE 260 hp. 260 hp is recommended as the maximum
> and what most RV-10s have. The parallel valve IO-540 does not come from
> Lycoming in stock certified form above that hp rating, but can easily be
> tweaked through higher compression, porting, cold air induction, etc to
> reach close to 300 hp, without using a turbo. Even turbo normalizing where
> one does not operate above published 75% power output(195 hp), but
> maintains it to a higher altitude, will push true airspeed up to 230 mph at
> around 12,000 ft, which is cited in a Vans paper as why you are flirting
> with the design limitations when you go to more horsepower.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 4:30 AM, Bob Wilson <bob@rjw.cc> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry - I missed something but where is it stated that Van's doesn't
> recommend a 260 HP for the RV-10??
>
> Bob Wilson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 1:06 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: 9:1 Compression Pistons
>
>
> Les,
> The standard compression is 8:5 to 1. All Lycoming engines at that
> compression were certified on 91/96 octane avgas.
> Most will run fine on 91-92 octane mogas. All of the angle valve higher
> horsepower engines have 8.7 to 1 compression and require 100 octane avgas.
> So you can pretty much be assured that 9 to 1 compression will require 100
> octane. Given that Van's does not recommend 260 hp on the airframe, the
> only really benefit to more horses is climb capability.
> Top speed with the 260 hp is around 210-212 mph TAS. Design flutter is
> 230 true air speed. How close do you want to shave that margin?
>
> On 6/2/2014 9:36 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > One of the engine options I have is using 9:1 positions rather than 8:1.
> I understand that there is a small HP gain with the 9:1 pistons.
> >
> > For those with the 9:1 pistons, is there a significant performance bump.
> Has anyone had problems with detonation?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
>
> - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
>
> *
>
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> ==========
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ==========
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out |
Thank you for your replies I will follow your advice and check if it appears again.
Regards
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424299#424299
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out |
Michael,
3 times in same flight conditions seems a little suspect to pinpoint it
as a sensor / electrical issue, although I would certainly follow advice
and add the ground to eliminate that possibility.
Having had problems with oil foaming in a previous career, I would
wonder if there is a combination of rpm / aircraft attitude / ambient
pressure in the climb phase which results in the sensor being in an air
or foam pocket rather than having full oil contact, which is then
resolved by transition to cruise. That could potentially falsify the
sensor reading but might not be a cause for concern if there is no
related change in oil pressure.
Cheers,
Gordon
41015, engine on, baffled ;-)
On Jun 3, 2014, at 4:19 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> I had almost the exact same problem. Replaced the sensor, no help.
Finally I put a dedicated ground from as close to the sensor as possible
to the firewall. That fixed it. I have a very robust ground from the
case to the engine mount, but the OT sensor needed the additional
ground.
>
> --Dave
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Mike Whisky <rv-10@wellenzohn.net>
wrote:
>
> Hello
> I have seen now three times in the last 70h of flight that in long
climb outs the oil temp dropped within a second from 185 down to 150-155
it stays there and recovers after leveling off most of the time back to
normal within a second or so. I believe that this must be a sensor issue
as the oil temp can't change that quickly. What is bothering me is that
it only happens at the end of those climbs at around d 8k ft. Did
anybody come across something similar?
> Regards
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (flying)
> #511
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424275#424275
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_480.jpg
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Sudden Oiltemp dropout during climb out |
Hi Gordon,
thanks for sharing your thoughts I had a similar suspicion. I will now go through
my flights and analyze them in Savvyanalysis.com to see if the phenomena occurred
really always in a similar attitude, RPM or hight band.
But I have found already one exception so wiring/grounding is currently on top
of my list.
Cheers
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424309#424309
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 9:1 Compression Pistons |
Danny,
You are already at/over the limit and pushing your luck. The limit is
TRUE AIRSPEED, not INDICATED airspeed.
You need to understand that control flutter is a function of true
airspeed, which at most any altitude above sea level is higher than
indicated airspeed. 200kts IS 230 mph, you were at indicated in that
dive and above the design flutter true airspeed which is 230 MPH.
BE CAREFUL out there. One RV-10 lost this week is way too many,.
On 6/3/2014 6:30 AM, Danny Riggs wrote:
> I have a Barrett with 9:1 pistons and cold air induction. The only way
> I can get near the design limit is in a dive. No way can you get there
> in any kind of level or near level cruise. Yesterday I had to set the
> autopilot to the absolute top speed and it took quite a steep dive to
> get to 200 kts.
> Nice thing about it that you can go to gross weight and have NO
> problem getting off on a hot day. These Barretts with 9:1 and cold air
> induction are real "hosses".
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 05:38:00 -0700
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: 9:1 Compression Pistons
> From: apilot2@gmail.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> Vans does not recommend ABOVE 260 hp. 260 hp is recommended as the
> maximum and what most RV-10s have. The parallel valve IO-540 does not
> come from Lycoming in stock certified form above that hp rating, but
> can easily be tweaked through higher compression, porting, cold air
> induction, etc to reach close to 300 hp, without using a turbo. Even
> turbo normalizing where one does not operate above published 75% power
> output(195 hp), but maintains it to a higher altitude, will push true
> airspeed up to 230 mph at around 12,000 ft, which is cited in a Vans
> paper as why you are flirting with the design limitations when you go
> to more horsepower.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 4:30 AM, Bob Wilson <bob@rjw.cc
> <mailto:bob@rjw.cc>> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry - I missed something but where is it stated that Van's
> doesn't recommend a 260 HP for the RV-10??
>
> Bob Wilson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 1:06 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: 9:1 Compression Pistons
>
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>
> Les,
> The standard compression is 8:5 to 1. All Lycoming engines at that
> compression were certified on 91/96 octane avgas.
> Most will run fine on 91-92 octane mogas. All of the angle valve
> higher horsepower engines have 8.7 to 1 compression and require
> 100 octane avgas. So you can pretty much be assured that 9 to 1
> compression will require 100 octane. Given that Van's does not
> recommend 260 hp on the airframe, the only really benefit to more
> horses is climb capability.
> Top speed with the 260 hp is around 210-212 mph TAS. Design flutter is
> 230 true air speed. How close do you want to shave that margin?
>
> On 6/2/2014 9:36 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
> <mailto:kearney@shaw.ca>>
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > One of the engine options I have is using 9:1 positions rather
> than 8:1. I understand that there is a small HP gain with the 9:1
> pistons.
> >
> > For those with the 9:1 pistons, is there a significant
> performance bump. Has anyone had problems with detonation?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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