---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/01/14: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:28 AM - OSH (Bob Leffler) 2. 07:13 AM - Re: OSH (Kelly McMullen) 3. 07:28 AM - Re: Stuck in Cheyenne (David Saylor) 4. 07:40 AM - Re: OSH (Tim Olson) 5. 07:53 AM - Re: OSH (Kelly McMullen) 6. 08:03 AM - Re: OSH (Phillip Perry) 7. 08:10 AM - Re: OSH (Rene Felker) 8. 08:11 AM - Re: Stuck in Cheyenne (Jesse Saint) 9. 08:18 AM - Re: OSH (Jesse Saint) 10. 08:33 AM - Re: OSH (William Greenley) 11. 10:17 AM - Kelly's comment about hangar use--not specific to RV-10s. (David Saylor) 12. 10:23 AM - Re: Stuck in Cheyenne (David Saylor) 13. 10:37 AM - Re: OSH (woxofswa) 14. 11:57 AM - Re: OSH (John Jessen) 15. 12:16 PM - Re: Stuck in Cheyenne (Linn Walters) 16. 12:35 PM - Re: OSH (Tim Olson) 17. 12:48 PM - Re: OSH (Rene Felker) 18. 01:43 PM - Re: Stuck in Cheyenne () 19. 04:37 PM - 24 month ifr check (Chris) 20. 04:53 PM - Re: OSH (John Jessen) 21. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: OSH (Bill Watson) 22. 09:47 PM - Re: 24 month ifr check (Bill Watson) 23. 10:06 PM - Re: 24 month ifr check (Tom Strickland) 24. 11:03 PM - Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 25. 11:08 PM - Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:09 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: OSH From: Bob Leffler It was great to see all my friends at OSH! I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I didn't get to them. For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe journey home! Bob Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH From: Kelly McMullen Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of activity. I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > It was great to see all my friends at OSH! > > I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. > > I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good intentions > of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I didn't get to them. > > For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe journey > home! > > Bob > > > Sent from my iPad > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:46 AM PST US From: David Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stuck in Cheyenne Kelly and Jesse, I'll suggest 600x6s. Do you know off-hand what the difference between the two sizes would be? Shape? Height? He's got a long way to go so he might want to keep all the fairings. His call. --Dave On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > Every FBO should have 6:00 X 6 6ply on hand. Mount a pair of those as > temporary substitute to get home. > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 6:10 PM, David Saylor > wrote: > >> Guys, a friend of mine is stranded in Cheyenne with his RV-10 due to a >> flat tire. He's having trouble finding one locally. If anyone can offer >> him a 15x600-6 sooner than Saturday, he'd appreciate it very much. Please >> give me a call and I'll pass on his contact info. >> >> Thanks, >> >> --Dave Saylor >> >> >> do not archive >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:36 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. I don't t hink that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is just a great plac e to be, to go, and to fly into. Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for many years....I'v e been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 hours. You can get a unit t hat will integrate with most any system today. So any new product announcem ent for ADS-B really isn't big news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dua l channel in+out system with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and i ntegrate with any panel...that would still be newsworthy. Tim > On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and other l ists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of reports of new or up graded products. Other than Dynon adding some features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of activity. > I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. > The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision to ai rport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude amateur building o f aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on airport hangars, and claims t hat is not a change. > > >> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: >> >> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >> >> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >> >> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good intention s of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I didn't get to them. >> >> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe journey h ome! >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:24 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH Tim, That was my point about ADS-B out. There isn't a product that meets the 2020 requirements in the under $3000 range that I am aware of, since you need both the transponder and certified GPS with means to coordinate with the Mode C if a UAT unit is selected. Last I heard Navworx and other attempts at under $3000 were still seeking certification. Even the Trig products under various labels are still having problems getting approval of communications with various certified GPS units. Not to mention the FAA so far is requiring STCs for each combination along with airframe STCs. At the rate things are going there isn't a prayer of getting a large percentage of the fleet that uses the airspace required to have ADS-B to actually get them installed. I appreciate that the OBAM community has a much easier road, not needing the STCs, but the equipment still is very pricey and the manufacturer still has to show compliance with all the TSO requirements. Kelly On 8/1/2014 7:39 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. I > don't think that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is just > a great place to be, to go, and to fly into. > Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B > products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for > many years....I've been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 > hours. You can get a unit that will integrate with most any system > today. So any new product announcement for ADS-B really isn't big > news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dual channel in+out system > with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and integrate with any > panel...that would still be newsworthy. > Tim > > On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen > wrote: > >> Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and >> other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of >> reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some >> features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of >> activity. >> I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. >> The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision >> to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude >> amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on >> airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler > > wrote: >> >> > >> >> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >> >> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >> >> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good >> intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I >> didn't get to them. >> >> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe >> journey home! >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> D============================================ >> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> D============================================ >> //forums.matronics.com >> D============================================ >> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> D============================================ >> >> * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:24 AM PST US From: Phillip Perry Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH I really wish we could have been there this year, but it just wasn't in the c ards (for the 2nd year in a row now). I think we will be flying the RV-10 into there next year though. I think I s ee a shimmering light at the end of the tunnel. Assuming it's really the en d of the tunnel and not another freight train, we should be there with room t o spare. It's about time. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and other l ists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of reports of new or up graded products. Other than Dynon adding some features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of activity. > I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. > The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision to ai rport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude amateur building o f aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on airport hangars, and claims t hat is not a change. > > >> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: >> >> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >> >> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >> >> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good intention s of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I didn't get to them. >> >> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe journey h ome! >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:03 AM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH I think Navworx's got their certification. I just installed the unit in my -10 (GRT EFIS) and I am in love. Traffic and weather are great and works great with my WingX. Rene' Felker N423CF 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:52 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH Tim, That was my point about ADS-B out. There isn't a product that meets the 2020 requirements in the under $3000 range that I am aware of, since you need both the transponder and certified GPS with means to coordinate with the Mode C if a UAT unit is selected. Last I heard Navworx and other attempts at under $3000 were still seeking certification. Even the Trig products under various labels are still having problems getting approval of communications with various certified GPS units. Not to mention the FAA so far is requiring STCs for each combination along with airframe STCs. At the rate things are going there isn't a prayer of getting a large percentage of the fleet that uses the airspace required to have ADS-B to actually get them installed. I appreciate that the OBAM community has a much easier road, not needing the STCs, but the equipment still is very pricey and the manufacturer still has to show compliance with all the TSO requirements. Kelly On 8/1/2014 7:39 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. I > don't think that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is just > a great place to be, to go, and to fly into. > Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B > products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for > many years....I've been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 > hours. You can get a unit that will integrate with most any system > today. So any new product announcement for ADS-B really isn't big > news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dual channel in+out system > with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and integrate with any > panel...that would still be newsworthy. > Tim > > On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen > wrote: > >> Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and >> other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of >> reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some >> features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of >> activity. >> I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. >> The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision >> to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude >> amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on >> airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler > > wrote: >> >> > >> >> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >> >> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >> >> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good >> intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I >> didn't get to them. >> >> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe >> journey home! >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> D=======================3 >> D===================== >> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> D=======================3 >> D===================== >> //forums.matronics.com >> D=======================3 >> D===================== >> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> D=======================3 >> D===================== >> >> * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:42 AM PST US From: Jesse Saint Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stuck in Cheyenne They are a little bit taller, but I don't know how much. It is possible that they will fit in the fairings, but I doubt it, without some modification. The 5 knots or so lost without the main wheel pants on shouldn't be a show stopper. Actually, is the tire bad or just the tube? A 600x6 tube should work fine in the existing tire. Then he could keep his fairings on. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On Aug 1, 2014, at 10:27 AM, David Saylor wrote: > Kelly and Jesse, I'll suggest 600x6s. Do you know off-hand what the difference between the two sizes would be? Shape? Height? > > He's got a long way to go so he might want to keep all the fairings. His call. > > --Dave > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > Every FBO should have 6:00 X 6 6ply on hand. Mount a pair of those as temporary substitute to get home. > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 6:10 PM, David Saylor wrote: > Guys, a friend of mine is stranded in Cheyenne with his RV-10 due to a flat tire. He's having trouble finding one locally. If anyone can offer him a 15x600-6 sooner than Saturday, he'd appreciate it very much. Please give me a call and I'll pass on his contact info. > > Thanks, > > --Dave Saylor > > > do not archive > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH From: Jesse Saint The only new ADS-B Out device I saw was the Appareo Transponder. It is not finished or certified yet, but they are building a transponder that will be ADS-B Out compliant with its internal WAAS GPS. As was already mentioned, it is not yet certified, so there is no telling when it will be ready or how much it will cost. We still have 5+ years before the mandate takes effect, and a lot can happen in that time, both with changing the requirement (similar to the 406MHz ELT's) and with cheaper options for compliance. More products in the marketplace means more competition, which should bring the price down. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On Aug 1, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Tim, > That was my point about ADS-B out. There isn't a product that meets the 2020 requirements in the under $3000 range that I am aware of, since you need both the transponder and certified GPS with means to coordinate with the Mode C if a UAT unit is selected. > Last I heard Navworx and other attempts at under $3000 were still seeking certification. Even the Trig products under various labels are still having problems getting approval of communications with various certified GPS units. Not to mention the FAA so far is requiring STCs for each combination along with airframe STCs. At the rate things are going there isn't a prayer of getting a large percentage of the fleet that uses the airspace required to have ADS-B to actually get them installed. I appreciate that the OBAM community has a much easier road, not needing the STCs, but the equipment still is very pricey and the manufacturer still has to show compliance with all the TSO requirements. > Kelly > On 8/1/2014 7:39 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. I don't think that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is just a great place to be, to go, and to fly into. >> Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for many years....I've been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 hours. You can get a unit that will integrate with most any system today. So any new product announcement for ADS-B really isn't big news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dual channel in+out system with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and integrate with any panel...that would still be newsworthy. >> Tim >> >> On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen > wrote: >> >>> Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of activity. >>> I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. >>> The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >>> >>> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >>> >>> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good >>> intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I >>> didn't get to them. >>> >>> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe >>> journey home! >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> ========== >>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> ========== >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> le, List Admin. >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> D============================================ >>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> D============================================ >>> //forums.matronics.com >>> D============================================ >>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> D============================================ >>> >>> * >> * >> >> >> * > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:40 AM PST US From: "William Greenley" Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH Someone mentioned that L3 said they were finishing a dual in and out ADSB that would be at the 3K price point. Bill Greenley -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 11:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH The only new ADS-B Out device I saw was the Appareo Transponder. It is not finished or certified yet, but they are building a transponder that will be ADS-B Out compliant with its internal WAAS GPS. As was already mentioned, it is not yet certified, so there is no telling when it will be ready or how much it will cost. We still have 5+ years before the mandate takes effect, and a lot can happen in that time, both with changing the requirement (similar to the 406MHz ELT's) and with cheaper options for compliance. More products in the marketplace means more competition, which should bring the price down. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On Aug 1, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Tim, > That was my point about ADS-B out. There isn't a product that meets the 2020 requirements in the under $3000 range that I am aware of, since you need both the transponder and certified GPS with means to coordinate with the Mode C if a UAT unit is selected. > Last I heard Navworx and other attempts at under $3000 were still seeking certification. Even the Trig products under various labels are still having problems getting approval of communications with various certified GPS units. Not to mention the FAA so far is requiring STCs for each combination along with airframe STCs. At the rate things are going there isn't a prayer of getting a large percentage of the fleet that uses the airspace required to have ADS-B to actually get them installed. I appreciate that the OBAM community has a much easier road, not needing the STCs, but the equipment still is very pricey and the manufacturer still has to show compliance with all the TSO requirements. > Kelly > On 8/1/2014 7:39 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. I don't think that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is just a great place to be, to go, and to fly into. >> Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for many years....I've been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 hours. You can get a unit that will integrate with most any system today. So any new product announcement for ADS-B really isn't big news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dual channel in+out system with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and integrate with any panel...that would still be newsworthy. >> Tim >> >> On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen > wrote: >> >>> Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of activity. >>> I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. >>> The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >>> >>> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >>> >>> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good >>> intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I >>> didn't get to them. >>> >>> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe >>> journey home! >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> ========== >>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> ========== >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> le, List Admin. >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> D====================== >>> 3D===================== >>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> D====================== >>> 3D===================== >>> //forums.matronics.com >>> D====================== >>> 3D===================== >>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> D====================== >>> 3D===================== >>> >>> * >> * >> >> >> * > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:37 AM PST US From: David Saylor Subject: RV10-List: Kelly's comment about hangar use--not specific to RV-10s. I hadn't seen or heard anything about FAA's proposed hangar use rules. For those similarly in the dark, better read up. Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/mdas6m5 The section titled "Use of Hangars for Fabrication and Assembly of Aircraft" is especially pretty. I imagine there'll be a little pushback... --Dave ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:37 AM PST US From: David Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stuck in Cheyenne Thanks Jesse. I did some digging around and found a Goodyear document that says, at least for Goodyear tires, that 600-6s are about 2" larger in diameter. So yeah, I wouldn't think the fairings would go back on. The 600-6s are also a few pounds heavier. That probably drove Vans' selection, but it shouldn't keep someone from using them if necessary. --Dave On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: > They are a little bit taller, but I don't know how much. It is possible > that they will fit in the fairings, but I doubt it, without some > modification. The 5 knots or so lost without the main wheel pants on > shouldn't be a show stopper. > > Actually, is the tire bad or just the tube? A 600x6 tube should work fine > in the existing tire. Then he could keep his fairings on. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 > > On Aug 1, 2014, at 10:27 AM, David Saylor wrote: > > Kelly and Jesse, I'll suggest 600x6s. Do you know off-hand what the > difference between the two sizes would be? Shape? Height? > > He's got a long way to go so he might want to keep all the fairings. His > call. > > --Dave > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > >> Every FBO should have 6:00 X 6 6ply on hand. Mount a pair of those as >> temporary substitute to get home. >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 6:10 PM, David Saylor >> wrote: >> >>> Guys, a friend of mine is stranded in Cheyenne with his RV-10 due to a >>> flat tire. He's having trouble finding one locally. If anyone can offer >>> him a 15x600-6 sooner than Saturday, he'd appreciate it very much. Please >>> give me a call and I'll pass on his contact info. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> --Dave Saylor >>> >>> >>> do not archive >>> >>> * >>> >>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> * >>> >>> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:16 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: OSH From: "woxofswa" Evie and I had a great time on the first long trip of the airplane. Saw a lot of -10's that I would have loved to peek inside of but most had their doors closed and covers on. I opened mine up for an afternoon and had a ton of looky-loos who appreciated a chance to look and ask questions. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Flew May 10 2014 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427749#427749 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH From: John Jessen Wish it worked with Foreflight. Or maybe it does? > On Aug 1, 2014, at 8:08 AM, "Rene Felker" wrote: > > > I think Navworx's got their certification. > > I just installed the unit in my -10 (GRT EFIS) and I am in love. Traffic and weather are great and works great with my WingX. > > Rene' Felker > N423CF > 801-721-6080 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:52 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH > > > Tim, > That was my point about ADS-B out. There isn't a product that meets the > 2020 requirements in the under $3000 range that I am aware of, since you need both the transponder and certified GPS with means to coordinate with the Mode C if a UAT unit is selected. > Last I heard Navworx and other attempts at under $3000 were still seeking certification. Even the Trig products under various labels are still having problems getting approval of communications with various certified GPS units. Not to mention the FAA so far is requiring STCs for each combination along with airframe STCs. At the rate things are going there isn't a prayer of getting a large percentage of the fleet that uses the airspace required to have ADS-B to actually get them installed. > I appreciate that the OBAM community has a much easier road, not needing the STCs, but the equipment still is very pricey and the manufacturer still has to show compliance with all the TSO requirements. > Kelly >> On 8/1/2014 7:39 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. I >> don't think that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is just >> a great place to be, to go, and to fly into. >> Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B >> products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for >> many years....I've been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 >> hours. You can get a unit that will integrate with most any system >> today. So any new product announcement for ADS-B really isn't big >> news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dual channel in+out system >> with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and integrate with any >> panel...that would still be newsworthy. >> Tim >> >> On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen > > wrote: >> >>> Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and >>> other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of >>> reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some >>> features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of >>> activity. >>> I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. >>> The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision >>> to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude >>> amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on >>> airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler >> > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >>> >>> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >>> >>> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good >>> intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I >>> didn't get to them. >>> >>> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe >>> journey home! >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> ========== >>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> ========== >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> le, List Admin. >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> D=======================3 >>> D===================== >>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> D=======================3 >>> D===================== >>> //forums.matronics.com >>> D=======================3 >>> D===================== >>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> D=======================3 >>> D===================== >>> >>> * >> * >> >> >> * > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:16 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stuck in Cheyenne On 8/1/2014 1:22 PM, David Saylor wrote: > Thanks Jesse. I did some digging around and found a Goodyear document > that says, at least for Goodyear tires, that 600-6s are about 2" > larger in diameter. So yeah, I wouldn't think the fairings would go > back on. > > The 600-6s are also a few pounds heavier. That probably drove Vans' > selection, but it shouldn't keep someone from using them if necessary. > > --Dave OK, would anyone that has not mounted the pants consider mounting them over 600-6s????? They'd only be 1" higher. Linn ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:51 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH Foreflight is too closed to offer anybody else's receiver to work. Other products work with most every other receiver there is. That's another reason I prefer wingX other than as a preflight planner. Tim > On Aug 1, 2014, at 1:56 PM, John Jessen wrote: > > > Wish it worked with Foreflight. Or maybe it does? > >> On Aug 1, 2014, at 8:08 AM, "Rene Felker" wrote: >> >> >> I think Navworx's got their certification. >> >> I just installed the unit in my -10 (GRT EFIS) and I am in love. Traffic and weather are great and works great with my WingX. >> >> Rene' Felker >> N423CF >> 801-721-6080 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen >> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:52 AM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH >> >> >> Tim, >> That was my point about ADS-B out. There isn't a product that meets the >> 2020 requirements in the under $3000 range that I am aware of, since you need both the transponder and certified GPS with means to coordinate with the Mode C if a UAT unit is selected. >> Last I heard Navworx and other attempts at under $3000 were still seeking certification. Even the Trig products under various labels are still having problems getting approval of communications with various certified GPS units. Not to mention the FAA so far is requiring STCs for each combination along with airframe STCs. At the rate things are going there isn't a prayer of getting a large percentage of the fleet that uses the airspace required to have ADS-B to actually get them installed. >> I appreciate that the OBAM community has a much easier road, not needing the STCs, but the equipment still is very pricey and the manufacturer still has to show compliance with all the TSO requirements. >> Kelly >>> On 8/1/2014 7:39 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >>> This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. I >>> don't think that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is just >>> a great place to be, to go, and to fly into. >>> Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B >>> products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for >>> many years....I've been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 >>> hours. You can get a unit that will integrate with most any system >>> today. So any new product announcement for ADS-B really isn't big >>> news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dual channel in+out system >>> with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and integrate with any >>> panel...that would still be newsworthy. >>> Tim >>> >>> On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen >> > wrote: >>> >>>> Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and >>>> other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of >>>> reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some >>>> features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of >>>> activity. >>>> I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. >>>> The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed revision >>>> to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, exclude >>>> amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" in on >>>> airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >>>> >>>> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >>>> >>>> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good >>>> intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I >>>> didn't get to them. >>>> >>>> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe >>>> journey home! >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> ========== >>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> ========== >>>> http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> le, List Admin. >>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> ========== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> D=======================3 >>>> D===================== >>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> D=======================3 >>>> D===================== >>>> //forums.matronics.com >>>> D=======================3 >>>> D===================== >>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> D=======================3 >>>> D===================== >>>> >>>> * >>> * >>> >>> >>> * > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:33 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH I don't have any experience with Foreflight, but all my experience with WingX has been great. I use voyager for flight planning.....do I dare say......when I do flight planning. On my last trip....Ogden UT to Coos Bay Oregon....I found a couple refueling options (my wife suffers from TB (tiny bladder)) via AirNav.com and did the flight plan on the fly. Updated TFR's in WingX before I left and got the weather via ASD-B in the air. I had looked at the weather the night before so knew what to expect. What an age we live in..... Rene' Felker N423CF 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:34 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH Foreflight is too closed to offer anybody else's receiver to work. Other products work with most every other receiver there is. That's another reason I prefer wingX other than as a preflight planner. Tim > On Aug 1, 2014, at 1:56 PM, John Jessen wrote: > > > Wish it worked with Foreflight. Or maybe it does? > >> On Aug 1, 2014, at 8:08 AM, "Rene Felker" wrote: >> >> >> I think Navworx's got their certification. >> >> I just installed the unit in my -10 (GRT EFIS) and I am in love. Traffic and weather are great and works great with my WingX. >> >> Rene' Felker >> N423CF >> 801-721-6080 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly >> McMullen >> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:52 AM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH >> >> >> Tim, >> That was my point about ADS-B out. There isn't a product that meets >> the >> 2020 requirements in the under $3000 range that I am aware of, since you need both the transponder and certified GPS with means to coordinate with the Mode C if a UAT unit is selected. >> Last I heard Navworx and other attempts at under $3000 were still seeking certification. Even the Trig products under various labels are still having problems getting approval of communications with various certified GPS units. Not to mention the FAA so far is requiring STCs for each combination along with airframe STCs. At the rate things are going there isn't a prayer of getting a large percentage of the fleet that uses the airspace required to have ADS-B to actually get them installed. >> I appreciate that the OBAM community has a much easier road, not needing the STCs, but the equipment still is very pricey and the manufacturer still has to show compliance with all the TSO requirements. >> Kelly >>> On 8/1/2014 7:39 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >>> This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. >>> I don't think that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is >>> just a great place to be, to go, and to fly into. >>> Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B >>> products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for >>> many years....I've been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 >>> hours. You can get a unit that will integrate with most any system >>> today. So any new product announcement for ADS-B really isn't big >>> news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dual channel in+out system >>> with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and integrate with >>> any panel...that would still be newsworthy. >>> Tim >>> >>> On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen >> > wrote: >>> >>>> Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and >>>> other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of >>>> reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some >>>> features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of >>>> activity. >>>> I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. >>>> The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed >>>> revision to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, >>>> exclude amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" >>>> in on airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >>>> >>>> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >>>> >>>> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good >>>> intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I >>>> didn't get to them. >>>> >>>> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe >>>> journey home! >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> ========== >>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> ========== >>>> http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> le, List Admin. >>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> ========== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> D===================== >>>> =3 >>>> D===================== >>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> D===================== >>>> =3 >>>> D===================== >>>> //forums.matronics.com >>>> D===================== >>>> =3 >>>> D===================== >>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> D===================== >>>> =3 >>>> D===================== >>>> >>>> * >>> * >>> >>> >>> * > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:07 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stuck in Cheyenne Hey Linn, You might want to consider clearance on the lower end of the pants ... the higher you raise them to get top tire clearance, the more you have interference with bleed valve/brake bolt clearance on the bottom end. Later, - Lew OK, would anyone that has not mounted the pants consider mounting them over 600-6s????? They'd only be 1" higher. Linn ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:16 PM PST US From: Chris Subject: RV10-List: 24 month ifr check Does anyone have a recommendation on an avionics shop nearest to eastern NC that will do this check on my 10? I have the GRT Hx's sending altitude to a gtx 327. Thanks Chris Lucas ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH From: John Jessen Might have to give WingX a try. > On Aug 1, 2014, at 12:47 PM, "Rene Felker" wrote: > > > I don't have any experience with Foreflight, but all my experience with > WingX has been great. > > I use voyager for flight planning.....do I dare say......when I do flight > planning. > > On my last trip....Ogden UT to Coos Bay Oregon....I found a couple refueling > options (my wife suffers from TB (tiny bladder)) via AirNav.com and did the > flight plan on the fly. Updated TFR's in WingX before I left and got the > weather via ASD-B in the air. I had looked at the weather the night before > so knew what to expect. > > What an age we live in..... > > Rene' Felker > N423CF > 801-721-6080 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:34 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH > > > Foreflight is too closed to offer anybody else's receiver to work. Other > products work with most every other receiver there is. > That's another reason I prefer wingX other than as a preflight planner. > Tim > >> On Aug 1, 2014, at 1:56 PM, John Jessen wrote: >> >> >> Wish it worked with Foreflight. Or maybe it does? >> >>> On Aug 1, 2014, at 8:08 AM, "Rene Felker" wrote: >>> >>> >>> I think Navworx's got their certification. >>> >>> I just installed the unit in my -10 (GRT EFIS) and I am in love. Traffic > and weather are great and works great with my WingX. >>> >>> Rene' Felker >>> N423CF >>> 801-721-6080 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly >>> McMullen >>> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:52 AM >>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH >>> >>> >>> Tim, >>> That was my point about ADS-B out. There isn't a product that meets >>> the >>> 2020 requirements in the under $3000 range that I am aware of, since you > need both the transponder and certified GPS with means to coordinate with > the Mode C if a UAT unit is selected. >>> Last I heard Navworx and other attempts at under $3000 were still seeking > certification. Even the Trig products under various labels are still having > problems getting approval of communications with various certified GPS > units. Not to mention the FAA so far is requiring STCs for each combination > along with airframe STCs. At the rate things are going there isn't a prayer > of getting a large percentage of the fleet that uses the airspace required > to have ADS-B to actually get them installed. >>> I appreciate that the OBAM community has a much easier road, not needing > the STCs, but the equipment still is very pricey and the manufacturer still > has to show compliance with all the TSO requirements. >>> Kelly >>>> On 8/1/2014 7:39 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >>>> This year wasn't a big year for significant product announcements. >>>> I don't think that's the best thing about OSH though anyway. It is >>>> just a great place to be, to go, and to fly into. >>>> Regarding ADS-B, I think that it's already to the point where ADS-B >>>> products are plentiful and "old news". They've been available for >>>> many years....I've been flying mine for over half of my over 1000 >>>> hours. You can get a unit that will integrate with most any system >>>> today. So any new product announcement for ADS-B really isn't big >>>> news anymore....unless perhaps there is a dual channel in+out system >>>> with integral gps that can be bought for $1000 and integrate with >>>> any panel...that would still be newsworthy. >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Kelly McMullen >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sure would have liked to be there to see many friends from this and >>>>> other lists........However, I have to wonder about the lack of >>>>> reports of new or upgraded products. Other than Dynon adding some >>>>> features to its Skyview, there seems to have been a real lack of >>>>> activity. >>>>> I would have hoped for more activity in the ADS-B Out arena. >>>>> The FAA seems to have scooped the event with their proposed >>>>> revision to airport hangar usage rules, which among many items, >>>>> exclude amateur building of aircraft earlier than "final assembly" >>>>> in on airport hangars, and claims that is not a change. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Bob Leffler >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> It was great to see all my friends at OSH! >>>>> >>>>> I wish I had more time to spend more time with everyone. >>>>> >>>>> I'm home now and am now remembering all those things I had good >>>>> intentions of doing before the show and for whatever reason, I >>>>> didn't get to them. >>>>> >>>>> For those still at OSH, Have great rest of the show and a safe >>>>> journey home! >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> ========== >>>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>>> ========== >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com >>>>> ========== >>>>> le, List Admin. >>>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>>> ========== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> D===================== >>>>> =3 >>>>> D===================== >>>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>>> D===================== >>>>> =3 >>>>> D===================== >>>>> //forums.matronics.com >>>>> D===================== >>>>> =3 >>>>> D===================== >>>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>>> D===================== >>>>> =3 >>>>> D===================== >>>>> >>>>> * >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> * > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:24 PM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: OSH Same here. I tried to open it up whenever I was nearby and got plenty of looky-loos - which isn't to say they weren't serious lookers. Met a chap from Western AUS who was a bit confounded by Vans' apparent lack of interest in his interest. I was glad to give him as much of a tour as he wanted while explaining that while sales, marketing and support may not by Vans strong point, engineering, design and performance is - and I guess that could pass for a form of marketing. The product does seem to sell itself which is what we all dream of. I've seen a lot of complaints from show attendees about the lack of knowledge of vendor reps at the show. My experience from the vendor side of biz shows is that 1) they are generally a bit of a pain in the buttocks, 2) vendor people are sent as a kind of perk, developmental opportunity or punishment and 3) they aren't very productive. It's a shame because the bad taste generated in the marketplace can linger. But let's face it, most informational exchanges can be done better electronically and when some F2F is required, somewhere other than a show is going to be more productive and effective. Bill "I attended for the booze" Watson On 8/1/2014 1:36 PM, woxofswa wrote: > > Evie and I had a great time on the first long trip of the airplane. > > Saw a lot of -10's that I would have loved to peek inside of but most had their doors closed and covers on. I opened mine up for an afternoon and had a ton of looky-loos who appreciated a chance to look and ask questions. > > -------- > Myron Nelson > Mesa, AZ > Flew May 10 2014 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427749#427749 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:44 PM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: RV10-List: 24 month ifr check Sparkchasers at KJNX did mine with that particular setup - no problem. Is that eastern? Do planes fly? :-) On 8/1/2014 7:36 PM, Chris wrote: > > Does anyone have a recommendation on an avionics shop nearest to eastern NC that will do this check on my 10? I have the GRT Hx's sending altitude to a gtx 327. > Thanks > Chris Lucas > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: 24 month ifr check From: Tom Strickland Sparkchasers KJNX has always treated me well. Call get appointment. On Aug 1, 2014 7:50 PM, "Chris" wrote: > > Does anyone have a recommendation on an avionics shop nearest to eastern > NC that will do this check on my 10? I have the GRT Hx's sending altitude > to a gtx 327. > Thanks > Chris Lucas > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:03 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV10-List: Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the RV10-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete RV10-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains RV10-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the RV10-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the RV10-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: rv10-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "rv10-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the RV10-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the RV10-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv10-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV10-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV10-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * RV10-List.FAQ - Latest version of the RV10-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * RV10-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * RV10-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * RV10-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * RV10-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the RV10-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV10 ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV10-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV10-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:01 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV10-List: Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV10-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV10-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.