Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:16 AM - Re: LiFePo4 Battery on the Firewall, Part II (Lenny Iszak)
2. 12:36 PM - Re: NavWorx ADS-B (Bob Turner)
3. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: NavWorx ADS-B (Tim Olson)
4. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: LiFePo4 Battery on the Firewall, Part II (Tim Olson)
5. 03:08 PM - Re: Dynon after the sale customer service (woxofswa)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LiFePo4 Battery on the Firewall, Part II |
Ed,
I have a bunch of truly experimental stuff in my plane. I built a bunch of electronics
from scratch, I have a few Arduinos running the show, and I went pretty
far trying to build my own EFIS. Just before getting ready to fly I chickened
out, admitted defeat, dumped the whole idea and called Rob from AFS :) I practically
dumped a boatload of money and even more time right out the window, but
i'm still very happy with my decision.
You can build pretty complex and cool systems, but when it comes to flying with
them the pucker factor sneaks up on you, which you never think of when designing
and building these things.
When I started out I always thought that I can build something better than what's
on the market. Now I have a lot of respect for these guys because I know how
much testing and tweaking is involved to make things work properly and reliably.
It almost never works right the first time around.
Yes, you can fly around with a funky new lithium battery by yourself in Phase I,
but I want to see you put your family in the plane and not worry about that
battery catching on fire.
You can save those 20lbs on your interior instead of the battery. Instead of real
cowhide use synthetic leather on your seats. Paint your doors instead of adding
funky door panels, use a single stage paint, etc.
Another aspect is that with a 12ah battery you'll be afraid to have your master
on for even short periods of time. I know I worry about draining my battery even
with my PC925. Once you drain your battery down pretty good the alternator
starts charging at close to full power. I know it's designed to do that, but
I don't like to see that going on when i'm flying. Besides, it's hard on the regulator,
hard on the belt and so on.
I looked at the Shorai batteries very briefly trying to shave off some pounds because
my air conditioning adds 50lbs to my empty weight. I did a quick image
search to see what form factors they come in and i saw a couple of melted ones.
Moved on... I'd rather be flying fat Albert with less junk in the baggage than
worrying.
If I built a plane again, I'd use proven reliable parts and not take 6 years building
it... :)
At OSH I got this perseverance award plaque from the EAA. It says: "In recognition
of the EAA members who have pursued, with stamina and tenacity, the ultimate
fullfillment of building an aircraft no matter how long it took." Anda reads
it and she says: Oh cool! Did you get that cause you took so long? :)
Lenny
PS: Btw, I can get you a pretty good price on Odyssey batteries :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428204#428204
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: NavWorx ADS-B |
Interesting marketing strategy: telling customers that if they wait the price will
drop?
I'm with Tim on trying to avoid companies that force you into one product line
(with Foreflight, it's Stratus). Garmin has a very competitive mode S-ES transponder
out now, but apparently it only works if you buy a G3X.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428214#428214
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: NavWorx ADS-B |
I think the reasoning for the price is, right now they're planning
to do the GPS modules in a bulk order come next year, so, right
now the production costs are much higher in small batch runs
than if you wait a short time and get one after they do the
large batch.
I'm guessing prices will rise over time, otherwise, because
there's been competition in the market now for a while, so
unless someone drastically undercuts others, there's nothing
that's going to bring much price pressure.
Tim
On 8/8/2014 2:35 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> Interesting marketing strategy: telling customers that if they wait the price
will drop?
>
> I'm with Tim on trying to avoid companies that force you into one product line
(with Foreflight, it's Stratus). Garmin has a very competitive mode S-ES transponder
out now, but apparently it only works if you buy a G3X.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LiFePo4 Battery on the Firewall, Part II |
Well better late than never, I always say, eh Lenny?
You only missed out on a dozen or so cool RV-10 trips. :)
We'll get you caught up.
The thing that shocked me is, if I was doing that battery,
I really don't think I'd trust that the smaller one would
do it for me up here in North country. I know for sure that
there was someone that switched from 680's to 925's just
for more crank, who lives up north. So if I went with the
EarthX, I'd go for the ETX48E for sure.
Then I looked at the price and see that they sell for $725
or so. That one really floored me!
I don't care if it IS an 8 year battery....unless you can
do a proper load test you can't in good conscience simply
TRUST that it's good at 7 years, or 6 years, or 5 years.
So you'd have to come up with some sort of replacement
timeline. I personally am on my 3rd PC925. They're what,
$135 or so from what I paid last? Even though they're a
5 year battery, I felt it best to cut them off at 3 years.
There's always a secondary use for the batteries. One of
mine is used for charging cellphones at OSH. That battery
is still good from 2005. Another one powers my Tow Buddy
power tug. So I don't even TRY to run them for max life
in the aircraft. My aux batteries I also replace on a 2-3
year schedule. They're just like UPS batteries at work,
and those usually last 2-7 years, depending on abuse.
So if I had an EarthX, and it really is an 8 year battery,
(have they been making them 8 years, to know that the
claim is true?) I personally would cut it off around
4 years, maybe 5 if I pushed it, but 5 is quite a long
time. Even at that point you're talking over $100/year
for just the cost of that one battery.
In 15 years, you'd have $2175 (at today's prices, roughly)
in batteries on a 5 year replacement. With a PC925,
you'd have 5 changes at 3 year replacement, for about $675.
That's over 3x the cost even over 15 years, with what
I'd consider reasonably shortened life expectancies.
Something over 250-270 gallons of avgas. If there's
one thing I've learned about flying the RV-10, it isn't
cheap by any means. Sure, it's more efficient than
flying some slow planes, especial Carbureted where LOP
is tough to do, but it's not super cheap. Insurance
is going to be North of $3000 for any new owner, and
I still figure my hourly operational cost is around
$125/hr altogether. It's enough, anyway, to make
me think twice about putting time on at times.
So weight and balance, fire, space, or any other issues
aside, I just don't see the economics of it. It's
hard enough to afford all the post-flying tools a guy
needs, like Compression testers, bead breakers, and
all sorts of other things you fill your toolbox with,
without adding all that cost too.
Maybe the EarthX 36 sized battery will work, but, if it
doesn't, it's another time and money wasting experiment,
involving new wire pulls and additional downtime. Lenny's
the guy to tell ya, NOT flying is a hell of a lot less
fun than flying. Rework sucks.
Enough on the topic from me though. I'm sure we can
talk about it at OSH 2015 again... :)
Tim
On 8/8/2014 9:16 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
> <lenard@rapiddecision.com>
>
> Ed,
>
> I have a bunch of truly experimental stuff in my plane. I built a
> bunch of electronics from scratch, I have a few Arduinos running the
> show, and I went pretty far trying to build my own EFIS. Just before
> getting ready to fly I chickened out, admitted defeat, dumped the
> whole idea and called Rob from AFS :) I practically dumped a boatload
> of money and even more time right out the window, but i'm still very
> happy with my decision.
>
> You can build pretty complex and cool systems, but when it comes to
> flying with them the pucker factor sneaks up on you, which you never
> think of when designing and building these things.
>
> When I started out I always thought that I can build something better
> than what's on the market. Now I have a lot of respect for these guys
> because I know how much testing and tweaking is involved to make
> things work properly and reliably. It almost never works right the
> first time around.
>
> Yes, you can fly around with a funky new lithium battery by yourself
> in Phase I, but I want to see you put your family in the plane and
> not worry about that battery catching on fire.
>
> You can save those 20lbs on your interior instead of the battery.
> Instead of real cowhide use synthetic leather on your seats. Paint
> your doors instead of adding funky door panels, use a single stage
> paint, etc.
>
> Another aspect is that with a 12ah battery you'll be afraid to have
> your master on for even short periods of time. I know I worry about
> draining my battery even with my PC925. Once you drain your battery
> down pretty good the alternator starts charging at close to full
> power. I know it's designed to do that, but I don't like to see that
> going on when i'm flying. Besides, it's hard on the regulator, hard
> on the belt and so on.
>
> I looked at the Shorai batteries very briefly trying to shave off
> some pounds because my air conditioning adds 50lbs to my empty
> weight. I did a quick image search to see what form factors they come
> in and i saw a couple of melted ones. Moved on... I'd rather be
> flying fat Albert with less junk in the baggage than worrying.
>
> If I built a plane again, I'd use proven reliable parts and not take
> 6 years building it... :)
>
> At OSH I got this perseverance award plaque from the EAA. It says:
> "In recognition of the EAA members who have pursued, with stamina and
> tenacity, the ultimate fullfillment of building an aircraft no matter
> how long it took." Anda reads it and she says: Oh cool! Did you get
> that cause you took so long? :)
>
> Lenny
>
> PS: Btw, I can get you a pretty good price on Odyssey batteries :)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428204#428204
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon after the sale customer service |
I guess it could be said that you are Doubley pleased. ;)
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428220#428220
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