Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:49 AM - Shunt - Location (Phillip Perry)
2. 08:02 AM - Re: Shunt - Location (Kelly McMullen)
3. 08:21 AM - Re: Shunt - Location (Carl Froehlich)
4. 08:21 AM - Re: Shunt - Location (David Saylor)
5. 08:22 AM - Re: Shunt - Location (Jesse Saint)
6. 08:33 AM - Re: Shunt - Location (Phillip Perry)
7. 11:25 AM - Re: Shunt - Location (Linn Walters)
8. 11:30 AM - Re: Shunt - Location (Jesse Saint)
9. 05:14 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Kelly McMullen)
10. 05:32 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Phillip Perry)
11. 06:05 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Kelly McMullen)
12. 06:35 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Linn Walters)
13. 06:42 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Jesse Saint)
14. 06:42 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Phillip Perry)
15. 07:11 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Linn Walters)
16. 07:21 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Phillip Perry)
17. 08:27 PM - Re: Undercarriage (Patrick Pulis)
18. 08:40 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Kelly McMullen)
19. 08:40 PM - Re: Undercarriage (Kelly McMullen)
20. 09:32 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (rv10flyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Shunt - Location |
Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there are
3 different electrical locations for it.
1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it
misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be sending
electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter the buss
as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load (minus
the start).
Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want to
make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where yours
is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the sub panel,
so I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Well, I physically mounted mine, along with an ANL current limiter
yesterday. I placed the shunt above and to the left of the oil and fuel
pressure sensor block. I wired it into the Alt line, your option 1.
Reason is that I am using the VPX box in lieu of a bus. VPX measures the
current flow from the battery automatically, and my shunt measure flow
from Alt, and the VPX shows graphically on my Dynon Skyview where the
electrons come from and where they go. Hooked up shunt last night and
verified it did exactly as described, by connecting a battery charger in
front of the shunt, and a second one on the battery.
Really slick.
If you only have one location to measure current, I would do your option
2, because you want to know whether you are charging the battery or
drawing from it. Amps from the alternator and total load are less
important than whether you are discharging your battery.
I don't know with Garmin, but I suspect that like Dynon you can install
a second shunt if you really want more info.
On 8/30/2014 7:47 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like
> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but
> it misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the
> main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be
> sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they
> enter the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of
> true load (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but
> want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know
> where yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side
> of the sub panel, so I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | Shunt - Location |
A lot of options. Some thoughts:
=C2=B7 Most shunts cannot handle starting current, so the shunt
cannot be install anywhere between the battery and the starting
solenoid.
=C2=B7 While knowing what the non-starting loads are is of
value, once measured there is little more to be gained by having them
constantly monitored.
=C2=B7 The load on the alternator however provides an indication
of battery health (via charge rate compared with buss voltage). So the
shunt on the alternator output does have some value if monitored.
=C2=B7 On my plane I did not install a current shunt. I find
independent voltage monitoring of each battery to be a better indicator
of electrical power distribution system health. No issue however if one
wants to add current monitoring as well.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 10:48 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Shunt - Location
Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there
are 3 different electrical locations for it.
1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it
misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main
buss.)
Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be
sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they
enter the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of
true load (minus the start).
Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want
to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where
yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the
sub panel, so I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Mine is between the B-lead and the main bus. Assuming the battery is fully
charged, it shows how much power the entire plane is drawing and indicates
that the alternator is working. Right after start-up it shows a larger
draw as the battery gets topped off. Then it settles into its normal
routine. I have a low voltage light, and my engine monitor alerts for
hi/low volts and amps.
--Dave
Single 925, single PP alt, numerous internal batteries
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there
> are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it
> misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be
> sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter
> the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load
> (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want
> to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where
> yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the sub
> panel, so I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more than a couple of a
mps negative with the engine running, then you have problems. Also, right af
ter start you will see 25+ amps positive which is a great indication that yo
ur alternator is working well enough to recharge your battery while powering
the bus. Knowing what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but tha
t's all. The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know if it isn
't putting out amperage.
The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there ar
e 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it mi
sses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be sendin
g electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter the bus
s as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load (minus t
he start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want t
o make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where yours
is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the sub panel, s
o I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Good feedback so far.
Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the start
without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see 0 Amps on a
charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
I'm just trying to understand the difference between what would be seen
monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a load at the buss input.
Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
Phil
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
wrote:
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more than a couple
> of amps negative with the engine running, then you have problems. Also,
> right after start you will see 25+ amps positive which is a great
> indication that your alternator is working well enough to recharge your
> battery while powering the bus. Knowing what the bus is drawing is good for
> load shedding, but that's all. The one from the alternator is good too, so
> you will know if it isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> www.mavericklsa.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there
> are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it
> misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be
> sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter
> the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load
> (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want
> to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where
> yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the sub
> panel, so I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
> D============================================
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> D============================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Mine is in the main battery feed.
Linn
On 8/30/2014 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like
> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but
> it misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the
> main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be
> sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they
> enter the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of
> true load (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but
> want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know
> where yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side
> of the sub panel, so I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
It is between the starter solenoid (battery side) and my bus. The alternator
is also tied to the bus. 8awg wire in and out. The 8awg ties to the same lu
g as the 2awg going to the battery.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 11:33 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the start witho
ut any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see 0 Amps on a
charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what would be seen mo
nitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> w
rote:
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more than a couple o
f amps negative with the engine running, then you have problems. Also, right
after start you will see 25+ amps positive which is a great indication that
your alternator is working well enough to recharge your battery while power
ing the bus. Knowing what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but t
hat's all. The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know if it i
sn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse@itecusa.org
>> www.itecusa.org
>> www.mavericklsa.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> O: 352-465-4545
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>>
>>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there a
re 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>>
>>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>>>
>>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it m
isses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>>>
>>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>>
>>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be send
ing electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter the b
uss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load (minus
the start).
>>>
>>>
>>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want
to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where you
rs is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the sub panel
, so I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and buss, or
between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what you expect,
positive charge or discharge. You would have difficulty connecting
between battery and starter relay because it is #4 wire, requiring
bigger terminals than the shunt is intended to take, and I don't think
any shunt is designed for over 100 amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times
that. So your #2 and #3 necessarily have to be the same place and
probably will be your choice.
On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the start
> without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see 0 Amps
> on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what would be
> seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>> wrote:
>
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more than a
> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps positive
> which is a great indication that your alternator is working well
> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus. Knowing
> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but that's all.
> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know if it
> isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>
> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>
> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like
>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>
>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>>
>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery;
>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT
>> to the main buss.)
>>
>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>
>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can
>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them
>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting
>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>
>>
>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3
>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting
>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a G3X screen
>> and access it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this
text, it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2
wire and it would read the charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I
missing something?
An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the alternator
output (=9CB=9D terminal). *A battery ammeter shunt should be i
nstalled between
the battery positive terminal and the battery contactor.* Depending on the
location of the alternator or battery relative to its supported electrical
bus, it is typically desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near
where the alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the
firewall.
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote
:
>
> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and buss, or
> between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what you expect,
> positive charge or discharge. You would have difficulty connecting betwee
n
> battery and starter relay because it is #4 wire, requiring bigger termina
ls
> than the shunt is intended to take, and I don't think any shunt is design
ed
> for over 100 amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your choice.
>
> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
>> Good feedback so far.
>>
>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the start
>> without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>>
>> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see 0 Amps on
>> a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what would be seen
>> monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a load at the buss input.
>>
>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more than a
>> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
>> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps positive
>> which is a great indication that your alternator is working well
>> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus. Knowing
>> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but that's all.
>> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know if it
>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>
>> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>
>> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like
>>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>>
>>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>>>
>>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery;
>>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT
>>> to the main buss.)
>>>
>>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>>
>>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can
>>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them
>>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting
>>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>>
>>>
>>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3
>>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
>>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting
>>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a G3X screen
>>> and access it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the firewall
where you might do that, but it makes no sense.
What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the
battery? So you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will have
less resolution of low current movement. (all shunts are designed for
0-50mv, where 50 mv equals full scale). The only current you see at the
battery besides what goes to the buss is the starter and anything else
that you bypass the buss for some reason.
You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a shunt.
#8 from starter relay to the buss will tell you all the information you
want.
I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any
certified aircraft that do it that way.
On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
> This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this
> text, it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the
> #2 wire and it would read the charge or discharge rates of that
> battery. Am I missing something?
>
> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter shunt should
> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com
> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>
> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
> choice.
>
> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
> load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
> <jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>> wrote:
>
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
> than a
> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
> positive
> which is a great indication that your alternator is
> working well
> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
> Knowing
> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
> that's all.
> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
> if it
> isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org> <http://www.itecusa.org>
> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285> <tel:352-427-0285
> <tel:352-427-0285>>
> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545> <tel:352-465-4545
> <tel:352-465-4545>>
> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694> <tel:815-377-3694
> <tel:815-377-3694>>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
> seems like
> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
> the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
> the battery;
> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
> from the ALT
> to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
> Battery can
> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
> them
> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
> I'm getting
> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
> option 3
> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
> of putting
> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
> G3X screen
> and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
>
> D============================================
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> D============================================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
If the #2 wire goes to the starter solenoid and the buss is connected to
that same point with #8 then the shunt can be placed in the #8 line and
not carry starter current. Then the shunt will read the charge current
minus the load current. It all depends on what data you're interested in.
I want to know the health of my alternator and my battery ..... I don't
care what the 'load' is. Putting the shunt in the buss to battery link
gives me what I am looking for. Also, a voltmeter .... seems like every
accessory has one in it .... will tell you the other half of the data
you should have.
I agree with Kelly .... you don't want anything in that #2 cable between
the battery and the starter .... except the starter solenoid and master
solenoid. Anyway a 300+A shunt is pricey.
Linn
On 8/30/2014 8:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
> This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this
> text, it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the
> #2 wire and it would read the charge or discharge rates of that
> battery. Am I missing something?
>
> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter shunt should
> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com
> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>
> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
> choice.
>
> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
> load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
> <jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>> wrote:
>
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
> than a
> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
> positive
> which is a great indication that your alternator is
> working well
> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
> Knowing
> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
> that's all.
> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
> if it
> isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org> <http://www.itecusa.org>
> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285> <tel:352-427-0285
> <tel:352-427-0285>>
> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545> <tel:352-465-4545
> <tel:352-465-4545>>
> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694> <tel:815-377-3694
> <tel:815-377-3694>>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
> seems like
> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
> the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
> the battery;
> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
> from the ALT
> to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
> Battery can
> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
> them
> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
> I'm getting
> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
> option 3
> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
> of putting
> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
> G3X screen
> and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
>
> D============================================
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> D============================================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I agree. From your earlier email, though, there are actually all 3 choices. You
could see how much the bus is using by connecting the alternator to the battery
side of the shunt and the bus to the other side. As I mentioned earlier, though,
this doesn't give valuable information compared to the other two options.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 9:04 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the firewall where you
might do that, but it makes no sense.
> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the battery? So
you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will have less resolution of
low current movement. (all shunts are designed for 0-50mv, where 50 mv equals
full scale). The only current you see at the battery besides what goes to the
buss is the starter and anything else that you bypass the buss for some reason.
> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a shunt. #8 from
starter relay to the buss will tell you all the information you want.
> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any certified aircraft
that do it that way.
>
>> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with..... This
is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this text, it leads
me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire and it would
read the charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I missing something?
>>
>> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
>> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter shunt should
>> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
>> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
>> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
>> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
>> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>>
>> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
>> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
>> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
>> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
>> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
>> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
>> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
>> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
>> choice.
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> Good feedback so far.
>>
>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
>> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>>
>> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
>> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
>> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
>> load at the buss input.
>>
>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>> <jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
>> than a
>> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
>> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
>> positive
>> which is a great indication that your alternator is
>> working well
>> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
>> Knowing
>> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
>> that's all.
>> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
>> if it
>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org> <http://www.itecusa.org>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285> <tel:352-427-0285
>> <tel:352-427-0285>>
>> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545> <tel:352-465-4545
>> <tel:352-465-4545>>
>> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694> <tel:815-377-3694
>> <tel:815-377-3694>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
>> seems like
>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>
>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
>> the ALT).
>>
>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
>> the battery;
>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
>> from the ALT
>> to the main buss.)
>>
>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>
>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
>> Battery can
>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
>> them
>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
>> I'm getting
>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>
>>
>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
>> option 3
>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
>> of putting
>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
>> G3X screen
>> and access it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I dug my Aeroelectric book out of one of our moving boxes and I'll try to
read it with a cup of coffee in the morning.
I'm mostly interested in understanding charge or discharge rates. I can
build a reference load chart (by running on battery only during a test
session) to determine exactly what each piece of equipment pulls and how I
might be able to shed load if needed.
Phil
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote
:
>
> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the firewall where
> you might do that, but it makes no sense.
> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the battery?
> So you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will have less
> resolution of low current movement. (all shunts are designed for 0-50mv,
> where 50 mv equals full scale). The only current you see at the battery
> besides what goes to the buss is the starter and anything else that you
> bypass the buss for some reason.
> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a shunt. #8
> from starter relay to the buss will tell you all the information you want
.
> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any certified
> aircraft that do it that way.
>
>
> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
>> This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this te
xt,
>> it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire a
nd
>> it would read the charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I missi
ng
>> something?
>>
>> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
>> alternator output (=9CB=9D terminal). */A battery ammete
r shunt should
>>
>> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
>> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
>>
>> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
>> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
>> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com
>> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>>
>>
>> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
>> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
>> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
>> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
>> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
>> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
>> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
>> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
>> choice.
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> Good feedback so far.
>>
>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
>> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>>
>> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
>> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
>> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
>> load at the buss input.
>>
>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please
.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>> <jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
>>
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
>> than a
>> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you ha
ve
>> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
>> positive
>> which is a great indication that your alternator is
>> working well
>> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
>> Knowing
>> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
>> that's all.
>> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
>> if it
>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org> <http://www.itecusa.org
>
>>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285> <tel:352-427-0285
>> <tel:352-427-0285>>
>> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545> <tel:352-465-4545
>> <tel:352-465-4545>>
>> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694> <tel:815-377-3694
>>
>> <tel:815-377-3694>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
>> seems like
>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>
>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
>> the ALT).
>>
>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
>> the battery;
>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
>> from the ALT
>> to the main buss.)
>>
>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>
>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
>> Battery can
>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
>> them
>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
>> I'm getting
>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>
>>
>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
>> option 3
>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm als
o
>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
>> of putting
>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
>> G3X screen
>> and access it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ======================
=============
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Lis
t
>> ======================
=============
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ======================
=============
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ======================
=============
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Knowing which piece draws X amps is a good exercise, but what do you do
with the data? With modern equipment the load is comparatively small
and with the transponder and strobes off a good battery should outlast
your fuel supply.
Alternator states are typically good charge (depending on battery level)
or no charge. A slipping belt will be in-between. Batteries are more
insidious .... they fail slowly at first and then gather steam towards
useless. A good battery health indicator is the battery voltage just
before start ..... how much did it lose since you last flew? I have a
desulfator trickle charger that I hook up after each flight so my
'settling time' is rather short.
IMHO, of course!
Linn
On 8/30/2014 9:42 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I dug my Aeroelectric book out of one of our moving boxes and I'll try
> to read it with a cup of coffee in the morning.
>
> I'm mostly interested in understanding charge or discharge rates. I
> can build a reference load chart (by running on battery only during a
> test session) to determine exactly what each piece of equipment pulls
> and how I might be able to shed load if needed.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com
> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>
> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the
> firewall where you might do that, but it makes no sense.
> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the
> battery? So you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will
> have less resolution of low current movement. (all shunts are
> designed for 0-50mv, where 50 mv equals full scale). The only
> current you see at the battery besides what goes to the buss is
> the starter and anything else that you bypass the buss for some
> reason.
> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a
> shunt. #8 from starter relay to the buss will tell you all the
> information you want.
> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any
> certified aircraft that do it that way.
>
>
> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling
> with..... This is a direct quote from the G3X installation
> manual and from this text, it leads me to believe that it
> could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire and it would read the
> charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I missing
> something?
>
> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter
> shunt should
>
> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the
> battery
> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
>
> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is
> typically
> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the
> firewall.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>> wrote:
>
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>>
>
>
> You really only have two choices. Either between
> Alternator and
> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells
> you what
> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay
> because it
> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is
> intended
> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be
> your
> choice.
>
> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and
> handles the
> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do
> you see
> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so
> inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs
> monitoring a
> load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts
> coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
> <jesse@saintaviation.com
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
>
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>>> wrote:
>
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it
> goes more
> than a
> couple of amps negative with the engine running,
> then you have
> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+
> amps
> positive
> which is a great indication that your alternator is
> working well
> enough to recharge your battery while powering the
> bus.
> Knowing
> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
> that's all.
> The one from the alternator is good too, so you
> will know
> if it
> isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most
> informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>
> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
> <http://www.itecusa.org> <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>
> <tel:352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>> <tel:352-427-0285
> <tel:352-427-0285>
> <tel:352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>>>
> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>
> <tel:352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>> <tel:352-465-4545
> <tel:352-465-4545>
> <tel:352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>>>
> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>
> <tel:815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>> <tel:815-377-3694
> <tel:815-377-3694>
>
> <tel:815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>>>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
>
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt
> locations and it
> seems like
> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the
> output of
> the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the
> load on
> the battery;
> but it misses the contributions of electrons
> coming
> from the ALT
> to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot
> for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the
> ALT and
> Battery can
> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be
> measuring
> them
> before they enter the buss as they're
> consumed. Then
> I'm getting
> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I
> really like
> option 3
> but want to make sure I'm not missing
> something. I'm also
> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm
> thinking
> of putting
> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can
> yank a
> G3X screen
> and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
> D============================================
>
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com> <http://forums.matronics.com>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> D============================================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I think I just sorted it out in my head. I was thinking that the #8
B-Lead, #2 Battery, and #8 Buss feed wires would all bind at the
battery-side post of the starter solenoid. This would mean I have a
single feed to the 'real' buss bar.
I'm now 99% sure that's not the case. I need to look at it closer, but I
believe I've got a connection for the B-Lead on one end of the buss and on
the other end of the buss I have a battery connection. That makes perfect
sense when someone says to put it "in the battery lead".
I won't be back at the hangar until Tuesday, but I'm pretty sure I just
figured it out. Sometimes I'm dense!
Phil
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote
:
> Knowing which piece draws X amps is a good exercise, but what do you do
> with the data? With modern equipment the load is comparatively small and
> with the transponder and strobes off a good battery should outlast your
> fuel supply.
>
> Alternator states are typically good charge (depending on battery level)
> or no charge. A slipping belt will be in-between. Batteries are more
> insidious .... they fail slowly at first and then gather steam towards
> useless. A good battery health indicator is the battery voltage just
> before start ..... how much did it lose since you last flew? I have a
> desulfator trickle charger that I hook up after each flight so my 'settli
ng
> time' is rather short.
> IMHO, of course!
> Linn
>
>
> On 8/30/2014 9:42 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> I dug my Aeroelectric book out of one of our moving boxes and I'll try to
> read it with a cup of coffee in the morning.
>
> I'm mostly interested in understanding charge or discharge rates. I can
> build a reference load chart (by running on battery only during a test
> session) to determine exactly what each piece of equipment pulls and how
I
> might be able to shed load if needed.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the firewall
>> where you might do that, but it makes no sense.
>> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the battery
?
>> So you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will have less
>> resolution of low current movement. (all shunts are designed for 0-50mv,
>> where 50 mv equals full scale). The only current you see at the battery
>> besides what goes to the buss is the starter and anything else that you
>> bypass the buss for some reason.
>> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a shunt. #
8
>> from starter relay to the buss will tell you all the information you wan
t.
>> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any certifie
d
>> aircraft that do it that way.
>>
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
>>> This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this t
ext,
>>> it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire
and
>>> it would read the charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I miss
ing
>>> something?
>>>
>>> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
>>> alternator output (=9CB=9D terminal). */A battery amme
ter shunt should
>>>
>>> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
>>> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
>>>
>>> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
>>> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
>>> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com
>>> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
>>> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
>>> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
>>> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
>>> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
>>> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
>>> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
>>> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
>>> choice.
>>>
>>> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>>
>>> Good feedback so far.
>>>
>>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
>>> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>>>
>>> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
>>> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
>>> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
>>> load at the buss input.
>>>
>>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming pleas
e.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>>> <jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
>>>
>>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
>>> than a
>>> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you
>>> have
>>> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
>>> positive
>>> which is a great indication that your alternator is
>>> working well
>>> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
>>> Knowing
>>> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
>>> that's all.
>>> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
>>> if it
>>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>>
>>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>>
>>> Jesse Saint
>>> I-TEC, Inc.
>>> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>>> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>
>>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org> <http://www.itecusa.or
g>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>>> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285> <tel:352-427-0285
>>> <tel:352-427-0285>>
>>> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545> <tel:352-465-4545
>>> <tel:352-465-4545>>
>>> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694> <tel:815-377-3694
>>>
>>> <tel:815-377-3694>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>>> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
>>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
>>>
>>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
>>> seems like
>>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>>
>>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
>>> the ALT).
>>>
>>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
>>> the battery;
>>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
>>> from the ALT
>>> to the main buss.)
>>>
>>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>>
>>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
>>> Battery can
>>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
>>> them
>>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
>>> I'm getting
>>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>>
>>>
>>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
>>> option 3
>>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm al
so
>>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
>>> of putting
>>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
>>> G3X screen
>>> and access it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ======================
=============
>>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Li
st
>>> ======================
=============
>>> FORUMS -
>>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ======================
=============
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ======================
=============
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>>
>> ========================
===========
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ========================
===========
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ========================
===========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ========================
===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 08/30/14
>
>
> *
>
===========
onics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage |
Oh bugger!
Warm regards
Patrick
> On 29 Aug 2014, at 20:16, Rodger Todd <rj_todd@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> If you haven't seen this on Vansairforce.net I strongly suggest you read h
ttp://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=116171
>
> What Dave Brown has reported is greatly worrying.
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Rodger
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Yes, that is what you want. One more failure state to an alternator that
wasn't mentioned, is the failure of one or two diodes. That will result
in an alternator that will produce 10-20 amps, but no more. You would
see it as a small discharge on your battery, and not going to 25+ amps
right after start as it should. (similar to loose and slipping belt
results) Otherwise, you will have full alt output or no output in most
cases.
On 8/30/2014 7:20 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I think I just sorted it out in my head. I was thinking that the #8
> B-Lead, #2 Battery, *and #8 Buss feed wires* would all bind at the
> battery-side post of the starter solenoid. This would mean I have a
> single feed to the 'real' buss bar.
It also means you are are seeing the entire system except for the
starter draw, and will know whether the battery is being charged or
discharged.
>
> I'm now 99% sure that's not the case. I need to look at it closer,
> but I believe I've got a connection for the B-Lead on one end of the
> buss and on the other end of the buss I have a battery connection.
> That makes perfect sense when someone says to put it "in the battery
> lead".
>
> I won't be back at the hangar until Tuesday, but I'm pretty sure I
> just figured it out. Sometimes I'm dense!
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com
> <mailto:flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>> wrote:
>
> Knowing which piece draws X amps is a good exercise, but what do
> you do with the data? With modern equipment the load is
> comparatively small and with the transponder and strobes off a
> good battery should outlast your fuel supply.
>
> Alternator states are typically good charge (depending on battery
> level) or no charge. A slipping belt will be in-between.
> Batteries are more insidious .... they fail slowly at first and
> then gather steam towards useless. A good battery health indicator
> is the battery voltage just before start ..... how much did it
> lose since you last flew? I have a desulfator trickle charger
> that I hook up after each flight so my 'settling time' is rather
> short.
> IMHO, of course!
> Linn
>
>
> On 8/30/2014 9:42 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>> I dug my Aeroelectric book out of one of our moving boxes and
>> I'll try to read it with a cup of coffee in the morning.
>>
>> I'm mostly interested in understanding charge or discharge rates.
>> I can build a reference load chart (by running on battery only
>> during a test session) to determine exactly what each piece of
>> equipment pulls and how I might be able to shed load if needed.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Kelly McMullen
>> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>>
>> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the
>> firewall where you might do that, but it makes no sense.
>> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at
>> the battery? So you have a shunt that can handle the current,
>> it will have less resolution of low current movement. (all
>> shunts are designed for 0-50mv, where 50 mv equals full
>> scale). The only current you see at the battery besides what
>> goes to the buss is the starter and anything else that you
>> bypass the buss for some reason.
>> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install
>> a shunt. #8 from starter relay to the buss will tell you all
>> the information you want.
>> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of
>> any certified aircraft that do it that way.
>>
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm
>> wrestling with..... This is a direct quote from the G3X
>> installation manual and from this text, it leads me to
>> believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire
>> and it would read the charge or discharge rates of that
>> battery. Am I missing something?
>>
>> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed
>> inline in the
>> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter
>> shunt should
>>
>> be installed between the battery positive terminal
>> and the battery
>> contactor./* Depending on the location of the
>> alternator or
>>
>> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it
>> is typically
>> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near
>> where the
>> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate
>> the firewall.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen
>> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
>> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com
>> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
>> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>>
>>
>>
>> You really only have two choices. Either between
>> Alternator and
>> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter
>> tells you what
>> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
>> difficulty connecting between battery and starter
>> relay because it
>> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt
>> is intended
>> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for
>> over 100
>> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2
>> and #3
>> necessarily have to be the same place and probably
>> will be your
>> choice.
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> Good feedback so far.
>>
>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline
>> and handles the
>> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin
>> suggests)
>>
>> What do you actually see on your digital
>> readouts? Do you see
>> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or
>> so inflight?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the difference
>> between what
>> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs
>> monitoring a
>> load at the buss input.
>>
>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts
>> coming please.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>> <jesse@saintaviation.com
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com
>> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>>>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If
>> it goes more
>> than a
>> couple of amps negative with the engine
>> running, then you have
>> problems. Also, right after start you will
>> see 25+ amps
>> positive
>> which is a great indication that your
>> alternator is
>> working well
>> enough to recharge your battery while
>> powering the bus.
>> Knowing
>> what the bus is drawing is good for load
>> shedding, but
>> that's all.
>> The one from the alternator is good too, so
>> you will know
>> if it
>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most
>> informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>
>> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org
>> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org
>> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>>>
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>> <http://www.itecusa.org> <http://www.itecusa.org>
>>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> C: 352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>
>> <tel:352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>> <tel:352-427-0285
>> <tel:352-427-0285>
>> <tel:352-427-0285 <tel:352-427-0285>>>
>> O: 352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>
>> <tel:352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>> <tel:352-465-4545
>> <tel:352-465-4545>
>> <tel:352-465-4545 <tel:352-465-4545>>>
>> F: 815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>
>> <tel:815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>> <tel:815-377-3694
>> <tel:815-377-3694>
>>
>> <tel:815-377-3694 <tel:815-377-3694>>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>> <philperry9@gmail.com
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>
>>
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt
>> locations and it
>> seems like
>> there are 3 different electrical
>> locations for it.
>>
>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure
>> the output of
>> the ALT).
>>
>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure
>> the load on
>> the battery;
>> but it misses the contributions of
>> electrons coming
>> from the ALT
>> to the main buss.)
>>
>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical
>> spot for me.
>>
>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So
>> the ALT and
>> Battery can
>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll
>> be measuring
>> them
>> before they enter the buss as they're
>> consumed. Then
>> I'm getting
>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>
>>
>> Where have most of you installed yours?
>> I really like
>> option 3
>> but want to make sure I'm not missing
>> something. I'm also
>> curious to know where yours is installed?
>> I'm thinking
>> of putting
>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I
>> can yank a
>> G3X screen
>> and access it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>>
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> <http://forums.matronics.com> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> <http://forums.matronics.com> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> 08/30/14
>>
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage |
Inspected mine today, more as an exercise in determining how much effort
it will take to install the doubler. Did see there was a little
interference between top shock disk and the rear tubes, so that will get
eliminated before I reassemble. I just used engine hoist to lift nose
after I had compressed disks by jacking under tail tiedown, removed
retaining bolt, then removed jack to allow tail to go down.
Not a lot of work, could have waited to first condition inspection, but
I decided I wanted to get the doubler before any problem shows up, as I
sure wouldn't want to have to remove the engine mount to have it weld
repaired.
On 8/30/2014 8:26 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
> Oh bugger!
>
> Warm regards
>
> Patrick
>
> On 29 Aug 2014, at 20:16, Rodger Todd <rj_todd@yahoo.co.uk
> <mailto:rj_todd@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> If you haven't seen this on Vansairforce.net
>> <http://Vansairforce.net> I strongly suggest you read
>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=116171
>>
>> What Dave Brown has reported is greatly worrying.
>>
>> Best wishes to all,
>>
>> Rodger
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I have three hall effect current sensors on my GRT. Main Bat feed , Aux Bat feed
and Alt feed. A toggle can be switched between the Bat and Alt sensors. Does
Garmin not work with the hall effect type sensors?
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429669#429669
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