Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Re: Re: Shunt - Location (Phillip Perry)
2. 07:08 AM - Re: SB 2014-08-29 (Barry)
3. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Shunt - Location (Kelly McMullen)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: SB 2014-08-29 (Kelly McMullen)
5. 07:41 AM - SB (DLM)
6. 07:48 AM - Re: Shunt - Location (bill.peyton)
7. 08:32 AM - Re: SB ()
8. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: SB 2014-08-29 (Tim Olson)
9. 12:01 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (woxofswa)
10. 04:40 PM - Re: Shunt - Location (Justin Jones)
11. 06:05 PM - Fw: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shunt - Location (Justin Jones)
12. 08:24 PM - Re: Leaking Tank Blues (Rob Kochman)
13. 10:10 PM - Re: Leaking Tank Blues (Les Kearney)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
The toggle switch on a pair of hall effect sensors is a good idea
The Garmin does work with them but I already own a pair of shunts. And at
this point in the project, I'll take advantage of the stuff I own and try
to keep from spending any more money than I have to.
Phil
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 11:32 PM, rv10flyer <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> I have three hall effect current sensors on my GRT. Main Bat feed , Aux
> Bat feed and Alt feed. A toggle can be switched between the Bat and Alt
> sensors. Does Garmin not work with the hall effect type sensors?
>
> --------
> Wayne G.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429669#429669
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
Two thoughts
1. With the WD-1001K-MOD doubler installed it looks like there will be more clearence
so the metal plates of the elastomers may clear the support tubes
2. With the added thickness of the doubler, you may need fewer U-1002 washers to
take up the slack. I wonder if three washers will still be the max allowed
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429679#429679
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
So put one shunt on the alternator B+ line and one one the starter relay to
buss line and you will know both what the battery is providing and what the
alternator is providing.
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
> The toggle switch on a pair of hall effect sensors is a good idea
>
> The Garmin does work with them but I already own a pair of shunts. And at
> this point in the project, I'll take advantage of the stuff I own and try
> to keep from spending any more money than I have to.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 11:32 PM, rv10flyer <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have three hall effect current sensors on my GRT. Main Bat feed , Aux
>> Bat feed and Alt feed. A toggle can be switched between the Bat and Alt
>> sensors. Does Garmin not work with the hall effect type sensors?
>>
>> --------
>> Wayne G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429669#429669
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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> *
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> *
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>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
Interesting points. I looked at whether I would need an additional washer
as my nose gear and engine have been mounted for more than a year. So far
it is fine with the original one washer, and the double will add more
compression. My -10 has been in my Aridzona uncooled hangar all of its life.
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Barry <blmarzaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Two thoughts
>
> 1. With the WD-1001K-MOD doubler installed it looks like there will be
> more clearence so the metal plates of the elastomers may clear the support
> tubes
>
> 2. With the added thickness of the doubler, you may need fewer U-1002
> washers to take up the slack. I wonder if three washers will still be the
> max allowed
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429679#429679
>
>
Message 5
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How many aircraft have cracks?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
You are over thing it. The shunt should always be place on the output lead of
the alternator. The aircraft does not run on the battery, it derives it's power
from the alternator. The only time the battery is used in the aircraft, or
an automobile for that manner, is when you start the engine, or if the alternator
fails. The bus voltage can be used to trigger the g3x to provide you a warning
and also a status if the alternator fails. I. Addition, the plane power
alternators have a separate lead that you can hook up to an indicator light
on the panel to indicate an alternator failure.
In summary, you should be monitoring the current being drawn from the alternator,
and set up the G3x to alarm you during overcurrent and under current situations.
You should also set up a voltage level alarm for over voltage and under
voltage on both your primary and secondary battery. In addition, you should
have a load shed plan in case of the alternator failure. Use this plane to de-power
the high current unnecessary items on the bus.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429687#429687
Message 7
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Just checked Wes=99s N620EB an hour ago. No cracks, some normal
wear, top metal part of top doughnut is bent where it hits the aft
braces. 5+ yrs. flying, a couple of pretty hard nose landings, not many
grass landings. REALLY appreciate the catch.
Later, =93 Lew
From: DLM
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 10:40 AM
Subject: RV10-List: SB
How many aircraft have cracks?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
I was thinking exactly the same things. I think you're right.
Tim
> On Aug 31, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "Barry" <blmarzaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Two thoughts
>
> 1. With the WD-1001K-MOD doubler installed it looks like there will be more clearence
so the metal plates of the elastomers may clear the support tubes
>
> 2. With the added thickness of the doubler, you may need fewer U-1002 washers
to take up the slack. I wonder if three washers will still be the max allowed
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429679#429679
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Wiring the traditional way of consumptive drain on the battery still gives a lot
of info options.
With everything running, the meter will still spike with new items energized as
a back up indication that the wizzie is getting power.
You can also get the draw of individual items by checking them with the ALT off.
That is nice to be able to check and note during construction or adding new
items. (I used a ground power plug during construction).
Obviously that is usually done on the ground with the engine not running, but it
doesn't have to be. I know there is controversy about turning the alt off with
the engine running, but Socata used to have just such a check as part of the
run up. If you need to know the total draw on the ALT, turning it off (after
batt has been start replenished).
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429698#429698
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
This is a perfect discussion for the aeroelectric list I'm sure Bob has some
insight.
I have CC'd the aeroelectric list email address
Justin
On Aug 30, 2014, at 6:47, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there ar
e 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it mi
sses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be sendin
g electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter the bus
s as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load (minus t
he start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want t
o make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where yours
is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the sub panel, s
o I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
>
>
==========================
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==========================
=========
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=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Date: August 31, 2014, 16:48:24 AKDT
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV10-List: Shunt - Location
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 6:47, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there ar
e 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> If you're going to measure current anywhere, this is the
> FIRST choice . . . I will elaborate later . . .
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it mi
sses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>
> This is how it was done on cars and some airplanes for
> decades. Useful ONLY to the individual who KNOWS about
> how a battery behaves with a lot of electro-whizzies
> wrapped around it. Good diagnostic tool but it requires
> attention, memory (monitoring of trends) and an understanding
> of battery physics. I don't recommend it.
>
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be sendin
g electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter the bus
s as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load (minus t
he start).
>
> But you KNOW what that number is . . . right? This is
> the FIRST task for crafting an electrical system is to
> list everything that needs power, separate to appropriate
> bus, tabulate the total bus energy needed under various
> flight configurations. It's called a Load Analysis and
> EVERY TC aircraft is blessed with one.
>
> You won't find an ammeter in series with any bus structure
> on a biz jet . . . ammeters monitor generator loads.
>
> The PRIMARY electrical system monitor is active notification
> of LOW VOLTS. When the light comes on, you look to see if
> the alternator is putting out ANYTHING . . . MAYBE it has
> popped a diode and is still putting out some energy but
> at a reduced rate. You have the option of reducing load
> until the light goes out.
>
> Are we talking actual SHUNTS or Hall-Effect Current Sensors.
> If the latter, one sensor can be used to monitor the output
> of both alternators in a dual system like Z-12 or Z-13/8
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/kgg8nva
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ag46m2f
>
>
> Check out any of the architecture figures at
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5wxzn7
>
>
> You will not find an ammeter shunt anywhere except on
> the alternator B-leads . . .
>
>
> Your NUMBER ONE tool for dealing with electrical system
> malfunction is active notification of low voltage. Your
> response to that event should be . . . at most . . .
> the repositioning of a couple of switches whereupon you
> assume Plan-B for getting comfortably on the ground.
>
>
> If your Plan-B calls for reading displays, flipping
> switches, pushing/pulling breakers, fiddling with
> fuses and/or WONDERING how long the battery is going
> to last . . . then you blew it before your airplane's
> first flight.
>
>
>
> For the most part, an ammeter is useful for figuring
> things out AFTER you get back on the ground. Not having
> one available in flight should NOT be a matter of concern.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking Tank Blues |
"now that my wings are off for paint"
How'd it go removing the wings? I've always thought that would be an
enormous pain.
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would have thought the gas would be greener on the other side of the
> border. 8^)
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:23 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> For the past year or so I have been fighting a weeping tank rivet on the
>> top my QB tanks. I tried loctite but that didn't work at all.
>>
>> Anyway, now that my wings are off for paint, I tried introducing proseal
>> through the fuel sender hole.
>>
>> After some discussion with a local A&P, I decided to drill out the rivet
>> and replace it with a Cherry Max. Fortunately the wing was inverted on a
>> table so I was able to use a vaccuum to draw out most chips as I drilled
>> out the rivet. Next I opened the hole and hand countersunk it.
>>
>> My concerns were that there would be a few small chips inside the tank as
>> well the rivet might not completely seal even when coated in proseal. To
>> deal with this, I introduced a couple of a small amount of proseal into the
>> hole with a small syringe. I then installed a cherry max rivet that was
>> completely coated in proseal.
>>
>> A quick check today indicates the leak is gone!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429620#429620
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> ">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking Tank Blues |
Rob
Not so much. I used a mallet to ease the bolts out and a couple of lifts to t
ake most of the weight off the wings.
It was not much more difficult than putting them on. I had quick disconnects
for wiring in the wing root so that was trivial. Likewise for the Pitot sta
tic lines.
That being said, I wouldn't want to do it too often.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 31, 2014, at 9:22 PM, Rob Kochman <rv10rob@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "now that my wings are off for paint"
>
> How'd it go removing the wings? I've always thought that would be an enor
mous pain.
>
>
>> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote
:
>> I would have thought the gas would be greener on the other side of the bo
rder. 8^)
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:23 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> For the past year or so I have been fighting a weeping tank rivet on the
top my QB tanks. I tried loctite but that didn't work at all.
>>>
>>> Anyway, now that my wings are off for paint, I tried introducing proseal
through the fuel sender hole.
>>>
>>> After some discussion with a local A&P, I decided to drill out the rivet
and replace it with a Cherry Max. Fortunately the wing was inverted on a ta
ble so I was able to use a vaccuum to draw out most chips as I drilled out t
he rivet. Next I opened the hole and hand countersunk it.
>>>
>>> My concerns were that there would be a few small chips inside the tank a
s well the rivet might not completely seal even when coated in proseal. To d
eal with this, I introduced a couple of a small amount of proseal into the h
ole with a small syringe. I then installed a cherry max rivet that was compl
etely coated in proseal.
>>>
>>> A quick check today indicates the leak is gone!
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Les
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429620#429620
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> ==========
>>> ">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
> Woodinville, WA
> http://kochman.net/N819K
>
>
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>
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