Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:35 AM - Re: Engine marathon: Case crack, bad cam, high CHT, stumbling (Mike Whisky)
2. 11:02 AM - Re: SB Nose Wheel Report (Bill Watson)
3. 11:14 AM - Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 (Bill Watson)
4. 11:39 AM - Re: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 (Linn Walters)
5. 12:12 PM - Re: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 (Rene)
6. 01:01 PM - Re: Engine marathon: Case crack, bad cam, high CHT, stumbling (Werner Schneider)
7. 01:47 PM - Re: SB Nose Wheel Report (Bill Watson)
8. 01:58 PM - Re: Engine marathon: Case crack, bad cam, high CHT, stumbling (Justin Jones)
9. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Engine marathon: Case crack, bad cam, high CHT, stumbling (Kelly McMullen)
10. 02:06 PM - Re: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 (Kelly McMullen)
11. 02:47 PM - Re: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 (Bill Watson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine marathon: Case crack, bad cam, high CHT, stumbling |
Does any engineer or metallurgist now why parts like cam shafts are not made of
an none corrosive steel alloy? Just reviewing to understand why not the root
cause has been tackled in the past by the engine manufacturers. I guess that problems
like this won't appear in automotive engines.
Just my 20cc
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430483#430483
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: SB Nose Wheel Report |
Details:
Serial: 40605
Total Hours: 504
Weight: 1684 lbs
Empty CG: 107.29
Nose Wheel Mount Status: Cracked at 3rd Condition Inspection. 4 donuts
installed since first flight. There was play in link assembly when
weight is removed from nosewheel
Misc: Front wheel was found cracked at 2nd Condition Inspection (336
hours), replaced with WHLNW511.25. Link assembly not removed for
inspection.
Original main tires and brakes.
Rough field Operations:
At least 450 Takeoffs and 450 Landings on 8NC8
Avg Est Takeoff weight = 2450lbs 110.4" aft of datum
Avg Est Landing weight = 2330lbs 110.5" aft of datum
Notes:
No rough landings and no nosewheel-first strikes.
90%+ taxi operations on 8NC8 performed with stick full back
On landings while balanced on mains, bumps would cause nose wheel to
fall slowly and make ground contact once or twice during rollout before
settling to ground with full back stick.
Occasionally on takeoffs, the nose wheel would strike a bump while being
lifted off.
Photos:
(I'll try to attach one picture to this post but not sure it will display)
Here is a link to photos in my Kitlog site:
Cracks in Elastomer Plate
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=0&log=196835&row=1>
On 9/12/2014 5:06 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
> I just did the SB inspection and my plate is cracked. I just called
> in an order for the cracked kit.
>
> I was hoping for the best but expected the worse since I base on a
> 'rough' grass strip. How rough? One of my neighbors completed an RV7
> and refused to base it here due to the roughness preferring to keep it
> at an airport 20mins away (he has since moved).
>
> Details to follow.
>
> Bill "well gee, it's probably a good chance to inspect the engine,
> it's mounting and my re-installation skills" Watson
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com>
>> *To:* "rv10-list@matronics.com" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 8, 2014 7:44 AM
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: SB Nose Wheel Report
>>
>> I did the SB nose wheel inspection this weekend.
>>
>> Serial: 40192
>> Total Hours: 687
>> Weight: 1542 lbs
>> Empty CG: 108.10
>> Nose Wheel Mount Status: No Cracks
>>
>> Misc: I just installed my third set of main tires / inner tubes and
>> second nose wheel tire / tube.
>>
>> Jim Combs
>>
>> Do Not Archive
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> 09/10/14
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 |
Has anyone been successful mounting the engine to the engine mount with
the prop installed?
During initial construction, I had the opportunity demount and remount
the engine. During this the second mounting I attempted to keep the
prop installed on the engine but found it difficult/impossible to get
the assembly on the engine mount.
I then removed the prop and found the process to once again be quite easy.
Any insight or experience here welcome.
Bill "executing delay maneuvers before tackling engine removal" Watson
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 |
I've done it both ways .... and both ways are a PITA. Can't say which
way was easier. Instead of using both lift rings (no prop) I used the
aft ring and a strap around the prop blades at the hub (with prop). I
find it easier to put the engine on the mount using smaller dia. bolts
and then replacing them, one at a time, with the correct bolts.
Linn
On 9/13/2014 2:04 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> Has anyone been successful mounting the engine to the engine mount
> with the prop installed?
>
> During initial construction, I had the opportunity demount and remount
> the engine. During this the second mounting I attempted to keep the
> prop installed on the engine but found it difficult/impossible to get
> the assembly on the engine mount.
>
> I then removed the prop and found the process to once again be quite
> easy.
>
> Any insight or experience here welcome.
>
> Bill "executing delay maneuvers before tackling engine removal" Watson
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 |
During my initial build I found a crack in my nose wheel strut. Vans sent
me a new one. To replace it. I left the engine mounted to the engine mount
and removed the engine mount from the firewall. Replaced the strut and then
remounted the assembly to the firewall. I did not have all the wiring done
at that time......
Just FYI, not sure it is an option since you have to remove more than the
strut to affect the repair.
Rene'
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 12:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29
Has anyone been successful mounting the engine to the engine mount with the
prop installed?
During initial construction, I had the opportunity demount and remount
the engine. During this the second mounting I attempted to keep the
prop installed on the engine but found it difficult/impossible to get the
assembly on the engine mount.
I then removed the prop and found the process to once again be quite easy.
Any insight or experience here welcome.
Bill "executing delay maneuvers before tackling engine removal" Watson
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine marathon: Case crack, bad cam, high CHT, stumbling |
On 13.09.2014 02:59, Tim Lewis wrote:
> Ruined cam: Upon splitting the case, I found significant pitting on
> several of the tappet bodies. The cam shaft had to be replaced, as did
> several tappet bodies. I got a lot of engine assembly assistance from
> a well regarded local repair station (Tom Schweitz at Aero Engines in
> Winchester, VA he's a super guy to work with). Tom told me that the
> cam & tappet damage was caused by rust forming on the cam shaft wear
> surface. I fly the RV-10 about 120 hours per year, which was
> apparently not adequate to prevent rust on the cam shaft wear surface.
> Following Tom's recommendation, I now use a Tempest engine
> dehumidifier to try to prevent a recurrence.
Tim, I know how painful this is, I had an O-320 with exactly that issue,
I can tell you, if you see in the filter this fine shiny metal flakes be
aware to expect cam shaft troubles. I had as well oil analysis done all
the time, it showed a bit higher metal values but nowhere in an area
regarded as dangerous. I was as well far away from the Coming SL
describing how much metal you can have. At the end Lycoming steered me
to their SB 480
http://www.lycoming.com/Portals/0/techpublications/servicebulletins/SB%20480E%20%2804-13-2005%29/Oil%20and%20Filter%20Change%20and%20Screen%20Cleaning;%20Oil%20Filter-Screen%20Content%20Inspection.pdf
which more or less tells you latest all 4 month you have to change oil
and filter ....
Cheers Werner
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: SB Nose Wheel Report |
Correction below to number of TOs and Landings (=>172)
On 9/13/2014 1:54 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
> Details:
> Serial: 40605
> Total Hours: 504
> Weight: 1684 lbs
> Empty CG: 107.29
> Nose Wheel Mount Status: Cracked at 3rd Condition Inspection. 4
> donuts installed since first flight. There was play in link assembly
> when weight is removed from nosewheel
>
> Misc: Front wheel was found cracked at 2nd Condition Inspection (336
> hours), replaced with WHLNW511.25. Link assembly not removed for
> inspection.
> Original main tires and brakes.
>
> Rough field Operations:
> /At least 172 Takeoffs and 172 Landings on 8NC8/
> Avg Est Takeoff weight = 2450lbs 110.4" aft of datum
> Avg Est Landing weight = 2330lbs 110.5" aft of datum
>
> Notes:
> No rough landings and no nosewheel-first strikes.
> 90%+ taxi operations on 8NC8 performed with stick full back
> On landings while balanced on mains, bumps would cause nose wheel to
> fall slowly and make ground contact once or twice during rollout
> before settling to ground with full back stick.
> Occasionally on takeoffs, the nose wheel would strike a bump while
> being lifted off.
>
> Photos:
> (I'll try to attach one picture to this post but not sure it will display)
> Here is a link to photos in my Kitlog site:
> Cracks in Elastomer Plate
> <http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=0&log=196835&row=1>
>
>
> On 9/12/2014 5:06 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>> I just did the SB inspection and my plate is cracked. I just called
>> in an order for the cracked kit.
>>
>> I was hoping for the best but expected the worse since I base on a
>> 'rough' grass strip. How rough? One of my neighbors completed an
>> RV7 and refused to base it here due to the roughness preferring to
>> keep it at an airport 20mins away (he has since moved).
>>
>> Details to follow.
>>
>> Bill "well gee, it's probably a good chance to inspect the engine,
>> it's mounting and my re-installation skills" Watson
>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com>
>>> *To:* "rv10-list@matronics.com" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, September 8, 2014 7:44 AM
>>> *Subject:* RV10-List: SB Nose Wheel Report
>>>
>>> I did the SB nose wheel inspection this weekend.
>>>
>>> Serial: 40192
>>> Total Hours: 687
>>> Weight: 1542 lbs
>>> Empty CG: 108.10
>>> Nose Wheel Mount Status: No Cracks
>>>
>>> Misc: I just installed my third set of main tires / inner tubes and
>>> second nose wheel tire / tube.
>>>
>>> Jim Combs
>>>
>>> Do Not Archive
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>> 09/10/14
>>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> 09/12/14
>>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine marathon: Case crack, bad cam, high CHT, stumbling |
Has anyone considered the Ney Nozzels? I have heard of one guy that had oil pressure
issues after he had them put in, but I'm not sure if it was ever attributed
to the nozzles or another defective part. If memory serves me correctly,
he may have found a missing oil galley plug on a subsequent shut down.
The nozzles will help while the engine is running, but most if the corrosion comes
from the aircraft sitting out in the elements. Condensation builds on the
camshaft after a warm engine is shut down. This is where ASL Camguard claims to
help. It is not suppose to shear off of the camshaft after shutdown, leaving
a coat of oil covering the cam and stopping corrosion.
The other thing that will wear a camshaft down quickly is allowing the lycoming
to idle below 1,000 rpm. I am not advocating to set the idle higher than the
manufacturer recommends, but our lycoming engines rely on splash oil to lubricate
the camshaft. There is simply not enough splash oil below 1000 rpm to sufficiently
lubricate the cam. I try to limit my time below 1000 rpm.
The dehydrating plugs couldn't hurt to slide in after shutdown.
Hope this helps
Justin
On Sep 13, 2014, at 11:48, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 13.09.2014 02:59, Tim Lewis wrote:
>
>> Ruined cam: Upon splitting the case, I found significant pitting on several
of the tappet bodies. The cam shaft had to be replaced, as did several tappet
bodies. I got a lot of engine assembly assistance from a well regarded local repair
station (Tom Schweitz at Aero Engines in Winchester, VA he's a super guy
to work with). Tom told me that the cam & tappet damage was caused by rust forming
on the cam shaft wear surface. I fly the RV-10 about 120 hours per year,
which was apparently not adequate to prevent rust on the cam shaft wear surface.
Following Tom's recommendation, I now use a Tempest engine dehumidifier to
try to prevent a recurrence.
>
> Tim, I know how painful this is, I had an O-320 with exactly that issue, I can
tell you, if you see in the filter this fine shiny metal flakes be aware to
expect cam shaft troubles. I had as well oil analysis done all the time, it showed
a bit higher metal values but nowhere in an area regarded as dangerous. I
was as well far away from the Coming SL describing how much metal you can have.
At the end Lycoming steered me to their SB 480
>
> http://www.lycoming.com/Portals/0/techpublications/servicebulletins/SB%20480E%20%2804-13-2005%29/Oil%20and%20Filter%20Change%20and%20Screen%20Cleaning;%20Oil%20Filter-Screen%20Content%20Inspection.pdf
>
> which more or less tells you latest all 4 month you have to change oil and filter
....
>
> Cheers Werner
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine marathon: Case crack, bad cam, high CHT, stumbling |
The Lycoming is particularly vulnerable because the cam is in the top of
the crankcase, and isn't operated daily. The cam normally is nitrided which
makes it more vulnerable to corrosion. (OTOH it makes the wear surface very
hard to withstand the high loads of the cam lobes.) Auto engines run lower
temps, get more oil, usually with positive lube of the cam, where Lycomings
generally are splash lubricated.
Reground cams are a mixed bag, depending on the quality of the regrind and
whether the lifters are new, how well the cam is nitrided after grinding,
etc.
I had to overhaul a 200 hp Lycoming at 1300 hours, 11 yrs after it had been
overhauled, due to cam and lifters badly spalled. So frequency of use
didn't help it much either.
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Mike Whisky <rv-10@wellenzohn.net> wrote:
>
> Does any engineer or metallurgist now why parts like cam shafts are not
> made of an none corrosive steel alloy? Just reviewing to understand why not
> the root cause has been tackled in the past by the engine manufacturers. I
> guess that problems like this won't appear in automotive engines.
>
> Just my 20cc
> Mike
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (flying)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430483#430483
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 |
One very helpful item is to have a load leveling bar on the hoist, which
lets you tilt the engine quite a bit forward or aft as needed. IIRC they
are not terribly expensive at Harbor freight, or you may be able to borrow
one.
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Rene <rene@felker.com> wrote:
>
> During my initial build I found a crack in my nose wheel strut. Vans sent
> me a new one. To replace it. I left the engine mounted to the engine
> mount
> and removed the engine mount from the firewall. Replaced the strut and
> then
> remounted the assembly to the firewall. I did not have all the wiring done
> at that time......
>
> Just FYI, not sure it is an option since you have to remove more than the
> strut to affect the repair.
>
> Rene'
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29
>
>
> Has anyone been successful mounting the engine to the engine mount with the
> prop installed?
>
> During initial construction, I had the opportunity demount and remount
> the engine. During this the second mounting I attempted to keep the
> prop installed on the engine but found it difficult/impossible to get the
> assembly on the engine mount.
>
> I then removed the prop and found the process to once again be quite easy.
>
> Any insight or experience here welcome.
>
> Bill "executing delay maneuvers before tackling engine removal" Watson
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29 |
Yep, I have one. The one with those immortal words, "Not to be used for
aircraft purposes".
do not archive
On 9/13/2014 4:51 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> One very helpful item is to have a load leveling bar on the hoist,
> which lets you tilt the engine quite a bit forward or aft as needed.
> IIRC they are not terribly expensive at Harbor freight, or you may be
> able to borrow one.
>
> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Rene <rene@felker.com
> <mailto:rene@felker.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:rene@felker.com>>
>
> During my initial build I found a crack in my nose wheel strut.
> Vans sent
> me a new one. To replace it. I left the engine mounted to the
> engine mount
> and removed the engine mount from the firewall. Replaced the
> strut and then
> remounted the assembly to the firewall. I did not have all the
> wiring done
> at that time......
>
> Just FYI, not sure it is an option since you have to remove more
> than the
> strut to affect the repair.
>
> Rene'
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080 <tel:801-721-6080>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Bill
> Watson
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Engine removal for SB 14-08-29
>
> <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>>
>
> Has anyone been successful mounting the engine to the engine mount
> with the
> prop installed?
>
> During initial construction, I had the opportunity demount and remount
> the engine. During this the second mounting I attempted to keep the
> prop installed on the engine but found it difficult/impossible to
> get the
> assembly on the engine mount.
>
> I then removed the prop and found the process to once again be
> quite easy.
>
> Any insight or experience here welcome.
>
> Bill "executing delay maneuvers before tackling engine removal" Watson
>
>
> =
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> ">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
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