Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:13 AM - Re: Re: two pilots in phase one (John Cox)
2. 10:55 AM - Re: two pilots in phase one (dmaib@me.com)
3. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: two pilots in phase one (Rene Felker)
4. 01:41 PM - Copperstate RV10 Nest 2014 (woxofswa)
5. 08:06 PM - Re: Copperstate RV10 Nest 2014 (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: two pilots in phase one |
You can't fly once you reach 65 at the airlines. You can drop dead on the
hangar floor as a wrench from old age. 40+ years of flyibg and lots of
friends lost by cutting simple corners for expediency or nickels.
Time to savor the wine & roses.
Teenflight for Vans & One Week Wonder for Zenith shows the need to help the
next generation.
Best shows going are well built experimental in the hands of a
compassionate pilots. 9 months from following Kelly into retirement and
Full Time kit build assistance.
On Oct 1, 2014 9:12 PM, "Pascal" <rv10flyer@live.com> wrote:
> John;
> All this time I thought you were a regional mechanic!! never knew of your
> level as pilot examiner [image: Winking smile]
> You covered this topic extremely well!
> Nice job!
> Pascal
>
> *From:* John Cox <rv10pro@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 11:25 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Re: two pilots in phase one
>
> Bob, that is a great observation and one which always created difficulty
> when I was a Pilot Examiner. "One Fright per Flight" was the mantra but a
> buddy out of OAK FSDO was knocked out cold (a strong Left Hook) by the
> Pilot Applicant when the applicant asked, "Did I pass?" and the Examiner
> verbally shared observations prior to the applicant landing and shutting
> down the aircraft.
>
> Physical action from the Owner/Builder/PIC can overcome even the most
> comprehensive word-crafted document. I was involved in a rebuild of the
> first RV-12 damaged on a departure stall. The Phase ONE was never logged.
> The steps of the Phase ONE were never flown. The multiple builders joined
> in the attitude that it was just like the Factory RV-12 so it must be the
> same performance. "NO Need".
>
> The Phase One Flight and new Second in Command was to address the need for
> a measurable reduction in the number of quantifiable discrepancies which
> have been growing into full blown Incident/Accident statistics. When a
> builder cuts corners, unanticipated outcomes are encountered. When an
> Inflight incident arises during Phase I, having a "qualified" Second to
> reduce the load, share the tasks and objectively provide options can be
> invaluable. The OFF Field landing will continue to be the 800# gorilla in
> the room / cockpit (Flight Deck - p.c.). When the Duties of PIC are
> assumed, the PIC must then relinquish those duties back to the Second. And
> the Second acknowledges verbally he has assumed the control. If they
> don't, the Last man as PIC continues stubbornly holding the
> responsibility. A Second "demanding" authority be given it back verbally
> from the Owner/Builder/Operator PIC will be interesting to hear the
> Attorneys in the Room weigh IN. So many dual, high time airline pilots
> flying with another buddy into C.F.I.T. required a full review of what is
> needed.
>
> Phase I does not need training provided by the Second. The builder should
> be fully qualified and capable to "Fly the Intent of the Mission" of each
> step. The World's Best Second might not have averted the circumstances
> which came together to take Dan Lloyd to another place.
>
> Additional Training is NOT the intent of approving a Second in the
> cockpit" during Amateur Kit Built Experimental. At the airlines we call it
> an OCF - Operational Check Flight and it has a complete "Flightcrew" with
> no passengers. We do have an approved Airline Check Pilot who is also an
> approved Test Pilot available for the hairy challenges. He does not proved
> training during such activity. Lots of documentation is involved before
> placing the aircraft back into Part 121.
>
> In time, the hope is that the statistics take a more positive turn in the
> desired direction.
>
> Seek respected opinions, Evaluate their validity, Investigate the
> potential outcomes and confirm the issue is resolved.
>
> John Cox
> #40600
>
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> There is no requirement to hold a cfi, although you do get a few extra
>> points in the qualification rating system. The purpose of phase one remains
>> flight test, not transition training. Although clearly there is some
>> expectation that some training occurs anyway.
>> One risk I see is if the "qualified pilot" shows deference to the
>> builder, as apparently happened in the China Air 777 crash at SFO recently.
>> I do not know how you write that into the ac. (I see there is a discussion
>> about PiC). Personally if I were the qualified pilot (and I have no plans
>> to do so) I would insist on a written agreement that I was PIC, that there
>> would be no attempt to countermand a decision to land off-airport, etc.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431286#431286
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>">http://www.matronics.com/c <http://www.matronics.com/c>
> *
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: two pilots in phase one |
This has been an interesting thread. One thing I have not seen mentioned or discussed,
is how the insurance companies will weigh in on this. I have been providing
RV10 Transition Training for nearly four years and have seen insurance
requirements that ranged from zero hours of transition training to fifteen hours
of transition training. Frequently, there seemed to be little connection to
the hours required and the experience or recent experience level of the individual
involved. Additionally, it is not unusual for insurance to require something
like five hours of "solo" before they will cover flights with passengers.
Of course, that never made any difference for someone who had either 25 or 40
hours of phase 1 to fly before they could could legally put another soul on board.
It is also not unheard of to have insurance policies that do not cover the
first flight, or the first few hours. The insurance companies could conceivably
be more restrictive than the AC.
Should be interesting to see how this all shakes out.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431408#431408
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: two pilots in phase one |
Insurance....mine was 5 hours of dual with one of two instructors. Also, I
had my CFI on my insurance and he got nothing.....fly from day one, but I
was already out of phase 1. I added another pilot added, 300 hour PP, and
he was required to have a checkout with a qualified CFI (my CFI was okd to
do it) and 5 hours of time in a RV-10 before he could take passengers.
All of this seemed very reasonable to me. I did an orientation flight
before he went with the instructor. Any excuse to fly.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmaib@me.com
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 11:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: two pilots in phase one
This has been an interesting thread. One thing I have not seen mentioned or
discussed, is how the insurance companies will weigh in on this. I have
been providing RV10 Transition Training for nearly four years and have seen
insurance requirements that ranged from zero hours of transition training to
fifteen hours of transition training. Frequently, there seemed to be little
connection to the hours required and the experience or recent experience
level of the individual involved. Additionally, it is not unusual for
insurance to require something like five hours of "solo" before they will
cover flights with passengers. Of course, that never made any difference for
someone who had either 25 or 40 hours of phase 1 to fly before they could
could legally put another soul on board. It is also not unheard of to have
insurance policies that do not cover the first flight, or the first few
hours. The insurance companies could conceivably be more restrictive than
the AC.
Should be interesting to see how this all shakes out.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431408#431408
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 Nest 2014 |
I am in the early throws for planning the eighth (and last) RV-10 Nest at Copperstate
(AZ) 2014. Hopefully the ninth and last will be next year.
My land based RV will be there for the duration and serve as a crashpad for nesters
with lots of shade, seating, cold drinks, etc. Tent campers are welcome to
use my facilities as needed.
Carne Asada lunch will again be noonish on Saturday. The last couple of years we
have had several vendors join us for lunch and that has been popular. Reps from
Van's, Dynon, Advanced, Approach Stack and others have joined in and great
conversations have ensued.
The hardest part of the whole thing for me is provision planning. Those planning
on coming for lunch please let me know, and yes, friends and family who are
not RV-10ers are welcome.
Any other ideas or suggestions are welcome.
Myron
602 421-2868
(http://s125.photobucket.com/user/myronnelson/media/photo-31.jpg.html)
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431414#431414
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV10 Nest 2014 |
Myron, I will plan on being there. Have FAAST talk 11:00 to 1pm, but
will get there.
Any progress on the oil leak?
Kelly
On 10/2/2014 1:41 PM, woxofswa wrote:
>
> I am in the early throws for planning the eighth (and last) RV-10 Nest at Copperstate
(AZ) 2014. Hopefully the ninth and last will be next year.
>
> My land based RV will be there for the duration and serve as a crashpad for nesters
with lots of shade, seating, cold drinks, etc. Tent campers are welcome
to use my facilities as needed.
>
> Carne Asada lunch will again be noonish on Saturday. The last couple of years
we have had several vendors join us for lunch and that has been popular. Reps
from Van's, Dynon, Advanced, Approach Stack and others have joined in and great
conversations have ensued.
>
> The hardest part of the whole thing for me is provision planning. Those planning
on coming for lunch please let me know, and yes, friends and family who are
not RV-10ers are welcome.
>
> Any other ideas or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Myron
> 602 421-2868
>
> (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/myronnelson/media/photo-31.jpg.html)
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Flew May 10 2014
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431414#431414
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|