Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: Fwf braded stainless (johngoodman)
2. 05:18 AM - Re: Fwf braded stainless (Lenny Iszak)
3. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: Fwf braded stainless (Linn Walters)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: Fwf braded stainless (Linn Walters)
5. 07:03 AM - fire sleeve (DLM)
6. 07:09 AM - fire suppression (DLM)
7. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Fwf braded stainless (Kelly McMullen)
8. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: Fwf braded stainless (Kelly McMullen)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Fwf braded stainless (Linn Walters)
10. 08:22 AM - Fw: fire suppression (Linn Walters)
11. 08:59 AM - Re: fire suppression (Danny Riggs)
12. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: Fwf braded stainless (Kelly McMullen)
13. 03:50 PM - fire suppression (DLM)
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| Subject: | Re: Fwf braded stainless |
Ask your DAR... that will be the final decider.
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432538#432538
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| Subject: | Re: Fwf braded stainless |
Here's a great resource I used to get integral firesleeve hoses.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/20Engine/hose.html
Lenny
--------
Lenny
N311LZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432539#432539
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| Subject: | Re: Fwf braded stainless |
I did that. Years ago. Answer was "I don't care". I suspect that most
of them don't.
From observations of inspections on others airplanes, there are DARs
that 'might' recognize the basic shape, look at the workmanship and sign
the necessary documents. Then there are those that have their own
personal hot buttons ..... things they look for and want to see.
IMHO leaving off the firesleeve is like flying with 1/4 tank of gas. If
you ever need it (have a engine compartment fire) you'll wish the
firesleeve was there. If you ever run most of that 1/4 tank of gas out
and are still not on the ground .... you'll wish you had filled the tank up.
My question is "why not use the firesleeve". Weight and cost are the
only things I can think of and in the scheme of things .... they're
negligible.
Now I'll pass on a trick that was taught to me:
Cut the firesleeve to length and insert one end of the hose a little way
into the firesleeve.
Stick your blow gun into the other end of the firesleeve and inflate
it. It'll slide on the hose real easy.
Coat the raw ends of the firesleeve with red high temp silicone to keep
oil and other liquids out.
I have one of those nifty tools to make clamps out of safety wire and I
use that. You can also whip the ends of the firesleeve (look for
'whipping rope' but be careful ... other kinds of whipping are out there
;-) ) and cover with the red silicone.
Linn
On 10/30/2014 8:07 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
> Ask your DAR... that will be the final decider.
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432538#432538
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fwf braded stainless |
Sorry .... left out that you need to plug one end of the hose.
Linn
On 10/30/2014 8:37 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> I did that. Years ago. Answer was "I don't care". I suspect that
> most of them don't.
> From observations of inspections on others airplanes, there are DARs
> that 'might' recognize the basic shape, look at the workmanship and
> sign the necessary documents. Then there are those that have their
> own personal hot buttons ..... things they look for and want to see.
>
> IMHO leaving off the firesleeve is like flying with 1/4 tank of gas.
> If you ever need it (have a engine compartment fire) you'll wish the
> firesleeve was there. If you ever run most of that 1/4 tank of gas
> out and are still not on the ground .... you'll wish you had filled
> the tank up.
>
> My question is "why not use the firesleeve". Weight and cost are the
> only things I can think of and in the scheme of things .... they're
> negligible.
>
> Now I'll pass on a trick that was taught to me:
> Cut the firesleeve to length and insert one end of the hose a little
> way into the firesleeve.
> Stick your blow gun into the other end of the firesleeve and inflate
> it. It'll slide on the hose real easy.
> Coat the raw ends of the firesleeve with red high temp silicone to
> keep oil and other liquids out.
>
> I have one of those nifty tools to make clamps out of safety wire and
> I use that. You can also whip the ends of the firesleeve (look for
> 'whipping rope' but be careful ... other kinds of whipping are out
> there ;-) ) and cover with the red silicone.
> Linn
>
> On 10/30/2014 8:07 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>> <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Ask your DAR... that will be the final decider.
>>
>> --------
>> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432538#432538
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
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Mine are fire sleeved but there is another alternative to burning to death:
a Halon fire bottle plumbed to dump 10# Halon gas on top of the cylinders
and behind the baffling. It is an old picture.
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| Subject: | fire suppression |
a better picture
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fwf braded stainless |
While I suppose a DAR could refuse to approve an aircraft that didn't
meet his standards,
they are not in the business of reg writing. If they start requiring
stuff that isn't in regs, they will find their clientele diminished.
While firesleeve hoses in the engine compartment is a "best practice",
I've seen nothing to make it a requirement.
I can assure you that the hoses Van's supplied for my FWF kit are not
firesleeved, neither oil nor fuel. They are the straight SS braided
hoses. Van's isn't in the habit of supplying stuff that DARs will balk
at approving.
On 10/30/2014 5:07 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
> Ask your DAR... that will be the final decider.
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432538#432538
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fwf braded stainless |
Unfortunately Van's leaves you with the options of knowing upfront that
some of their hoses are not firesleeved(used to be all).
If you know that and delete them from your FWF kit, the cost difference
will be small. However, if you believed they had already changed to
firesleeved hoses when they had not, for example was the case when I
ordered, then I have choice of sending them back for diminished refund,
or just buying the hoses desired or using what came in the kit. Just one
of many cases where you can spend time, energy and money changing the
kit or you can proceed towards getting the kit built. So far, in 40 yrs,
I have been fortunate enough to catch leaks before flight and have not
had any engine fire beyond a cold start flooded poof that was contained
by continued cranking. My last engine overhaul on my certified Mooney
saw all integral firesleeve hoses installed, and I like them a lot.
On 10/30/2014 5:37 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
>
> My question is "why not use the firesleeve". Weight and cost are the
> only things I can think of and in the scheme of things .... they're
> negligible.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fwf braded stainless |
I didn't have the option of adding/deleting since I bought my kit from
another builder. However, I think originally the raw SS hoses was a way
to keep the costs down and give builders the option of using firesleeve
(http://www.aircraft-spruce.com/catalog/appages/stratofs.php?clickkey=4409
..... there are others)
or not. The integral firesleeve (IMHO) makes the hose stiffer so I like
the stratoflex better anyway. I also make my own hoses (that didn't
come in the kit) so the integral firesleeve isn't practical for them.
Also, I cut the Vans hose from pump to servo to insert my fuel flow
sender .... and the liner was a purplish teflon that wasn't the same
size as the white. The fittings were crimped on and the standard JIC
fittings wouldn't fit. My local hydraulics place couldn't make anything
fit either.
BTW, that hose had the stratoflex firesleeve.
Linn
On 10/30/2014 10:22 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Unfortunately Van's leaves you with the options of knowing upfront
> that some of their hoses are not firesleeved(used to be all).
> If you know that and delete them from your FWF kit, the cost
> difference will be small. However, if you believed they had already
> changed to firesleeved hoses when they had not, for example was the
> case when I ordered, then I have choice of sending them back for
> diminished refund, or just buying the hoses desired or using what came
> in the kit. Just one of many cases where you can spend time, energy
> and money changing the kit or you can proceed towards getting the kit
> built. So far, in 40 yrs, I have been fortunate enough to catch leaks
> before flight and have not had any engine fire beyond a cold start
> flooded poof that was contained by continued cranking. My last engine
> overhaul on my certified Mooney saw all integral firesleeve hoses
> installed, and I like them a lot.
>
> On 10/30/2014 5:37 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>>
>> My question is "why not use the firesleeve". Weight and cost are the
>> only things I can think of and in the scheme of things .... they're
>> negligible.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | fire suppression |
Good alternative!!!
Is the fitting on the bottom of the valve a cap or does the tube go into
the tunnel?
Linn
Message 11
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| Subject: | fire suppression |
Is that a Halon bottle? Is it plumbed to the engine compartment or into th
e cockpit??
From: dlm34077@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: fire suppression
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a better =0A
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fwf braded stainless |
I disagree about integral firesleeve being stiffer. It is if anything more
flexible than standard hose, especially after the firesleeve is installed,
and it is smaller diameter which makes a cleaner fit. Just my experience in
30 yrs of working on planes.
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I didn't have the option of adding/deleting since I bought my kit from
> another builder. However, I think originally the raw SS hoses was a way to
> keep the costs down and give builders the option of using firesleeve
> (http://www.aircraft-spruce.com/catalog/appages/stratofs.php?clickkey=4409
> ..... there are others)
> or not. The integral firesleeve (IMHO) makes the hose stiffer so I like
> the stratoflex better anyway. I also make my own hoses (that didn't come
> in the kit) so the integral firesleeve isn't practical for them.
> Also, I cut the Vans hose from pump to servo to insert my fuel flow sender
> .... and the liner was a purplish teflon that wasn't the same size as the
> white. The fittings were crimped on and the standard JIC fittings wouldn't
> fit. My local hydraulics place couldn't make anything fit either.
> BTW, that hose had the stratoflex firesleeve.
> Linn
>
>
> On 10/30/2014 10:22 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> Unfortunately Van's leaves you with the options of knowing upfront that
>> some of their hoses are not firesleeved(used to be all).
>> If you know that and delete them from your FWF kit, the cost difference
>> will be small. However, if you believed they had already changed to
>> firesleeved hoses when they had not, for example was the case when I
>> ordered, then I have choice of sending them back for diminished refund, or
>> just buying the hoses desired or using what came in the kit. Just one of
>> many cases where you can spend time, energy and money changing the kit or
>> you can proceed towards getting the kit built. So far, in 40 yrs, I have
>> been fortunate enough to catch leaks before flight and have not had any
>> engine fire beyond a cold start flooded poof that was contained by
>> continued cranking. My last engine overhaul on my certified Mooney saw all
>> integral firesleeve hoses installed, and I like them a lot.
>>
>> On 10/30/2014 5:37 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My question is "why not use the firesleeve". Weight and cost are the
>>> only things I can think of and in the scheme of things .... they're
>>> negligible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | fire suppression |
My bottle is from Stroud Safety of OKC (used to be Phoenix fire Suppression
systems), it is plumbed via a single aluminum line to a T bulkhead fitting
on the engine side of the firewall, there it splits to two sprayers. One
sprayer is plumbed through the top of the baffling and discharges directly
over the spider, the second to a sprayer in the center of the firewall aft
of the baffling the spray will discharge around the oil filter , lines, fuel
lines, fuel pump and magnetos. I apparently do not know how to send a
picture so email me directly if you wish to see pictures. My reason for
installing the bottle is that I put one in a Glastar and went to A&P school
for transport aircraft.
My plan if the fire is in the engine compartment, I will shut off the fuel
and blow the bottle; the safety pin is usually installed and safe tied to a
post on the tunnel. The only difference is that my solution requires I
detect the fire before activating the suppression system. On the transport
aircraft an engine fire is detected by a system and the fire light
illuminates and the crew can verify and then supress with a single button.
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