Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:38 AM - Re: wingtips (bill.peyton)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: Panel planning (bill.peyton)
3. 06:57 AM - Re: wingtips (Robert Lynch)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Panel planning (Ed Kranz)
5. 07:50 AM - Re: wingtips (bill.peyton)
6. 08:28 AM - Re: Panel planning (fdombroski)
7. 09:16 AM - Re: Panel planning (Ben Westfall)
8. 09:44 AM - Re: Panel planning (Tim Olson)
9. 11:16 AM - Re: Panel planning (rvdave)
10. 11:32 AM - Re: wingtips (bob88)
11. 11:54 AM - Re: Panel planning (Bob Turner)
12. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: wingtips (Rene)
13. 12:47 PM - Re: wingtips (bob88)
14. 01:07 PM - Re: Panel planning (Bill Watson)
15. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: wingtips (Rene)
16. 02:50 PM - Re: Panel planning (Bill Watson)
17. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: Panel planning (Kelly McMullen)
18. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: Panel planning (Tim Olson)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
It is not unusual to have to modify the trailing edge of the wingtip. What many
of us have had to do is to split the trailing edge in order to get proper alignment.
Before you get started, follow the alignment procedure in the IM for
the flaps and ailerons. If the wing tip does not line up with the trailing edge
of the aileron, and it is already installed, the carefully split the trailing
edge a allow it to line up. I used a hack saw blade to carefully separate
the halves. Line them up then cleco it in place with some temporary clecos to
re-attach the upper an lower halves. Fill in the trailing edge with a slurry
of thickened epoxy. After it sets up, you can finish off the wing tip flush with
the aileron.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433577#433577
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
With all that glass, why would you spend all that money on a 750, when a 650 or
even a 430w would provide you with the exact same capability?
I also have a different opinion about a third AFS display. If this is an IFR
aircraft, then having an independent "Stand Alone" third display for backup is
a great idea. Simply adding a third AFS slave display does not get you this
backup.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433578#433578
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
put a ratchet strap
around the trailing edge of wing tip and leading edge of wing at the rib to
make sure you have a good fit before you start cutting anything
bob
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
Regarding the 750 vs the 650, I just went thru that decision process. I was
set on the 750 for a few reasons: Remote audio panel capabilities, full
on-screen keyboard for entering flight plans, and a nice big uncluttered
screen.
In the end, however, I'm choosing to go with a 650. My justification for
this is that my EFIS is going to be the Garmin G3X Touch, which duplicates
many of the capabilities of the 750. There is no remote audio panel option
for it, but it sounds like there will be soon enough. The G3X has a full
onscreen keyboard for looking things up, and with the FlightStream
capabilities, I should be able to push flight plans to the 650 (according
to Stein). So, in the end, it would cost me an extra $5000 and valuable
panel space for not much gain.
That being said, Dave is running AFS panels, so he won't have that full
integration... and the justifications above do apply. It's all about
preferences. I really don't like the sliding keyboard on the 650...
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:43 AM, bill.peyton <peyton.b@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> With all that glass, why would you spend all that money on a 750, when a
> 650 or even a 430w would provide you with the exact same capability?
>
> I also have a different opinion about a third AFS display. If this is an
> IFR aircraft, then having an independent "Stand Alone" third display for
> backup is a great idea. Simply adding a third AFS slave display does not
> get you this backup.
>
> --------
> Bill
> WA0SYV
> Aviation Partners, LLC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433578#433578
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
As Bob just posted, and let me also emphasize that the wing tip should be installed
prior to adjusting the trailing edge
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433587#433587
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
I like all of your choices as they represent the best in class systems available
today. If you fly real IFR, I like back up hardware from a different manufacturer.
I am using a GRT Mini-x for the back up EFIS. It is small enough to fit next to
the pilot EFIS, and provides a totally self contained redundant system. If
the AFS goes TU for any reason, you have everything necessary to get back safely
on the ground.
Cheers,
Frank
--------
Frank Dombroski
RV-10 2.0 N46VT soon to be flying
KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433593#433593
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
There is a thread on VAF that discusses symmetrical vs side by side that is
worthy of a read.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=116936
>From what I've heard you won't use the far right screen much at all so I'd
somehow put the 2nd EFIS in the center. If money were no object I'd throw a
3rd screen over on the copilot side as well. As for a backup instrument I
went with and prefer the Dynon D2 up on the center post similar to Rob
Hickman's because I felt that relying on the screen in front of the copilot
as the backup would be difficult at best. I've also been told that the
backup in the lower left of the panel is very hard to see.
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 8:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Panel planning
Am currently considering and planning for 2 AFS 5600 displays one in front
of each stick similar to Rob Hickmans setup. I have the Aerosport
symmetrical panel and looking to put a GTN750 in the upper center as far up
as I can get it which will probably leave a little room above for autopilot
. Transponder, 2nd comm, Nav, and audio looking to do remote. Looking
objectively at this to see if I really need a third screen for redundancy or
not?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433515#433515
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
Hey Ben and all,
I have 3 screens, with 2 shifted to the Left (one is near center),
and the 3rd is center of co-pilot. I like the arrangement a lot.
Both pilots have easy access to the center screen (MFD) and the radio
stack. I don't/can't utilize the buttons very much on the far
screen without a bunch of stretching, but in my case, that's not
needed anyway.
But, the one thing I had to add is, I fly very often off of the
copilot screen. I don't find it hard at all. Now, if I had to
do a lot of button manipulation, it wouldn't be much fun,
but, as far as using it for flying, it really isn't bad at all.
So I feel that a backup EFIS functioning as backup gauges actually
works pretty well over there. It's more comfortable than if you were
having to look down to the low part of the pane in front of you,
in fact...or especially lower left.
The button pushing is the only part that I'd worry much about.
If you're using a 2-screen EFIS, I think it would be much better
to probably put one on the pilot side, and at furthest, put
the 2nd one in the center, if you're planning a lot of single-pilot
use, or planning to actually hit buttons on that 2nd screen.
A 2nd screen over by the co-pilot that needs to be physically
touched by the pilot is going to be very uncomfortable.
With 3, you have the best of all worlds.
Tim
On 11/13/2014 11:13 AM, Ben Westfall wrote:
>
> There is a thread on VAF that discusses symmetrical vs side by side that is
> worthy of a read.
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=116936
>
>>From what I've heard you won't use the far right screen much at all so I'd
> somehow put the 2nd EFIS in the center. If money were no object I'd throw a
> 3rd screen over on the copilot side as well. As for a backup instrument I
> went with and prefer the Dynon D2 up on the center post similar to Rob
> Hickman's because I felt that relying on the screen in front of the copilot
> as the backup would be difficult at best. I've also been told that the
> backup in the lower left of the panel is very hard to see.
>
> -Ben
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 8:32 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Panel planning
>
>
> Am currently considering and planning for 2 AFS 5600 displays one in front
> of each stick similar to Rob Hickmans setup. I have the Aerosport
> symmetrical panel and looking to put a GTN750 in the upper center as far up
> as I can get it which will probably leave a little room above for autopilot
> . Transponder, 2nd comm, Nav, and audio looking to do remote. Looking
> objectively at this to see if I really need a third screen for redundancy or
> not?
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 flying
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433515#433515
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
Was originally thinking 750 over 650 because of gaining a display and the features
of the 750. Since learning the remote non Garmin devices can't be controlled
via Garmin display-- audio panel, Nav, transponder, etc, I'm leaning back
toward the 650 but still learning the differences between the two.
I would think the middle display could be independent of the other two displays
in case of TU failure so not sure why a Dynon display would be necessary unless
middle display is tied to Afs hub and not truly independent.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433609#433609
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Actually I did use the strap idea and got perfect alignment. Problem is purely
a length issue. I guess if others have cut the trailing edge and put it back with
some flox I can do as well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433610#433610
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
rvdave wrote:
>
>
> I would think the middle display could be independent of the other two displays
in case of TU failure so not sure why a Dynon display would be necessary unless
middle display is tied to Afs hub and not truly independent.
There have been a couple of reported cases of a software failure which simultaneously
affected all screens made by the same manufacturer; so some (including
me) have opted for a different manufacturer (to assure different software) for
a back up EFIS. How you assess this risk is of course up to you.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433614#433614
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I had to adjust both of mine to make them better. One more than the other.
To help line it all up I used a piece of angle Al off of the aileron to get
it all lined up.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: wingtips
Actually I did use the strap idea and got perfect alignment. Problem is
purely a length issue. I guess if others have cut the trailing edge and put
it back with some flox I can do as well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433610#433610
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Then a question for Rene...if the only adjustment needed is length, and not alignment,
is it necessary to split the wingtip or is there enough structure there
to just cut off about 3/8 inch? Can't tell by looking.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433618#433618
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
One side had a little twist in it that I did not notice until I had mounted
it and it was too long. So I cut to length and then built up and sanded
strength. The trailing edge was solid. The other one was longer, I think
because I did not mount it as far forward as I could. When I looked at it I
decided not to split it, but to cut it even and then looked at what was
remaining and found that one side had plenty of material but the other did
not. On the "bad" side I cut out a small section, filled it in completely
and the laid in some cloth. Then filled and sanded to make it smooth.
I am not a glass guy, this was done based on advice I got from a glass
expert I worked with at the time.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 1:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: wingtips
Then a question for Rene...if the only adjustment needed is length, and not
alignment, is it necessary to split the wingtip or is there enough structure
there to just cut off about 3/8 inch? Can't tell by looking.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433618#433618
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
On 11/13/2014 4:00 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
> Don't know enough about your mission (IFR/VFR, etc) to respond
> directly to the OP.
>
> Here's my experience and thoughts from having installed 3 GRT HXs in
> my '10. Flying 3 years.
>
> * I used Stein's aluminum panel with a middle section angled towards
> the pilot seat. I have 1 unit centered for the pilot, one center
> on an angle and 1 centered on the co-pilot.
> * For normal ops, the pilot has a PFD/Map split screen, the center
> is 100% engine, the co-pilot is for my co-pilot.
> * For Map work, I flip the center screen to 100% Map. Without the
> angle panel, this would be much less desirable. If the angle panel
> was not available, in retrospect I would not have installed them
> symmetrically because the center panel is 'too far away'. Instead
> I would have bunched the 2 screens over in front of the pilot
> (with the 3rd centered for the co-pilot.) I've seen pics of
> people who have bunched them like that on a flat panel. It
> doesn't look as good aesthetically but would work much better than
> 3 part symmetry on a flat panel.
> * For backup/redundancy I have an ADI, ASI, Alt and AP in front of
> the pilot below the screen. If I lose the screen I would
> immediately go to those. If possible, I would then transition to
> the middle panel. I don't think I could hand fly in the soup
> using the co-pilot screen... at least that wouldn't be a planned
> alternative.
> * iPad: The reality of my flying since my days in gliders and a
> Maule is that the latest and greatest portable units will always
> be ahead of the panel installed last year. I had a GNC 300XL but
> the G396 quickly became the go-to device for nav and wx and
> general reference. In the '10, the G430W provides the WAAS
> smarts, the GRT displays and integrates, but the iPad running
> Foreflight is the go-to device for nav, wx and general reference.
> Accordingly, the G396 was RAM mounted to my Maule panel and the
> iPad is RAM mounted to my center console. Where and how is your
> iPad going to be mounted?
>
> The only thing I'm absolutely convinced of is that there is no single
> optimal solution... perhaps short of G999 <http://youtu.be/TOam7gzbepc>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
Having a different manufacturer for one of the EFIS is a mixed bag, IMHO.
Having to know two different menu logic/screens during a high stress period
isn't a good idea. I'd lean toward a mini-EFIS from same vendor that uses
same menu logic if you aren't comfortable with dual EFIS, dual ADAHARS,
dual backup batteries. We each have to decide level of redundancy we are
comfortable with. Years ago I flew IFR with one flip flop nav com, one ADF,
transponder and venturi vacuum powered AN gyros with an electric turn and
bank, with no auto pilot of any kind. Just a handheld navcom for
backup/second nav. No GPS, no Loran. That isn't my comfort level today.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> rvdave wrote:
> >
> >
> > I would think the middle display could be independent of the other two
> displays in case of TU failure so not sure why a Dynon display would be
> necessary unless middle display is tied to Afs hub and not truly
> independent.
>
>
> There have been a couple of reported cases of a software failure which
> simultaneously affected all screens made by the same manufacturer; so some
> (including me) have opted for a different manufacturer (to assure different
> software) for a back up EFIS. How you assess this risk is of course up to
> you.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433614#433614
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Panel planning |
I think one of the keys to the backup gauge situation is to
be honest with yourself and your abilities. Going with a 2nd
manufacturer of EFIS is an OK idea, if you use it as a backup
gauge system. When the stuff hits the fan though, I'd be
willing to bet that most people won't remain IFR current and
proficient enough in running 2 systems as full approach systems,
if they want them while IFR. So personally, I'm more concerned
with having a backup EFIS or backup gauges (either is fine) that
will primarily be there to help me keep the plane:
Right-side up
At the right altitude
Headed the right direction
Yeah, I have a GNS480 and I can load an approach in it (if I've
practiced recently), but if I lose my primary system, I'm
probably realistically going to contact ATC and have them give
me the hand that I really need.
Long ago I had to decide....do you want two systems, or
do you want to build one good one that you trust. I really
believe that you're better off building one good solid one.
Now, that's not saying that for a backup EFIS, such as a
GRT mini or something small, you shouldn't just buy one and
stick it in. You SHOULD have some sort of backup attitude
indication, altitude indication, and heading indication. But
just be honest with yourself as to what you're really going to be
able to do when you lose that primary system. It takes more
work than you'd think, to stay proficient as a weekend pilot.
That's why I wouldn't bother going with a dual garmin G3X
system, and add in a big AFS, for instance. There is too
much buttonology to have that be fun at all.
Tim
On 11/13/2014 6:57 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Having a different manufacturer for one of the EFIS is a mixed bag,
> IMHO. Having to know two different menu logic/screens during a high
> stress period isn't a good idea. I'd lean toward a mini-EFIS from same
> vendor that uses same menu logic if you aren't comfortable with dual
> EFIS, dual ADAHARS, dual backup batteries. We each have to decide level
> of redundancy we are comfortable with. Years ago I flew IFR with one
> flip flop nav com, one ADF, transponder and venturi vacuum powered AN
> gyros with an electric turn and bank, with no auto pilot of any kind.
> Just a handheld navcom for backup/second nav. No GPS, no Loran. That
> isn't my comfort level today.
>
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu
> <mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>> wrote:
>
> <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu <mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>>
>
>
> rvdave wrote:
> >
> >
> > I would think the middle display could be independent of the
> other two displays in case of TU failure so not sure why a Dynon
> display would be necessary unless middle display is tied to Afs hub
> and not truly independent.
>
>
> There have been a couple of reported cases of a software failure
> which simultaneously affected all screens made by the same
> manufacturer; so some (including me) have opted for a different
> manufacturer (to assure different software) for a back up EFIS. How
> you assess this risk is of course up to you.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433614#433614
>
>
> ==========
> et="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> sbooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> rget="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> rget="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
> ="_blank">www.mrrace.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> ">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|