Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 10:41 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:30 AM - Yaw Damper (bob88)
2. 05:41 AM - Re: Yaw Damper (David Leikam)
3. 05:45 AM - Re: Yaw Damper (Jesse Saint)
4. 07:06 AM - Re: Yaw Damper (David Clifford)
5. 11:51 AM - Re: Yaw Damper (Stein Bruch)
6. 01:54 PM - Re: Yaw Damper (RV10@TEXASRV10.COM)
7. 03:05 PM - New Engine Questions (Vernon Franklin)
8. 04:06 PM - Re: New Engine Questions (Jesse Saint)
9. 04:16 PM - Re: New Engine Questions (Bob Turner)
10. 04:29 PM - Re: New Engine Questions (LEON EVERETT)
11. 04:59 PM - Re: Re: New Engine Questions (Jesse Saint)
12. 05:04 PM - Re: New Engine Questions (Jesse Saint)
13. 05:32 PM - Re: New Engine Questions (Bob Turner)
Message 0
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Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again
- 51, so don't reminde me! :-) But it also means that it's that last official
day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about
picking up one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump
on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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I noticed that Garmin has a yaw damper for the -10 now. For those flying, is this
needed? Is the plane unstable in yaw axis or dutch roll in turbulence enough
to justify the yaw damper?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435088#435088
Message 2
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With out a doubt. No.
I sometimes feel a tiny tail waggle after a bit of turbulence when loaded very
after CG, but even then it is very brief and does not continue.
Dave Leikam
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:28 AM, bob88 <marty.crooks@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I noticed that Garmin has a yaw damper for the -10 now. For those flying, is
this needed? Is the plane unstable in yaw axis or dutch roll in turbulence enough
to justify the yaw damper?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435088#435088
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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A yaw damper is not needed. It does improve the stability, but very few -10's have
yaw dampers and most will say that it is fine without.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:28 AM, bob88 <marty.crooks@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I noticed that Garmin has a yaw damper for the -10 now. For those flying, is
this needed? Is the plane unstable in yaw axis or dutch roll in turbulence enough
to justify the yaw damper?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435088#435088
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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No need IMHO. The -10 is a very stable plane.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob88" <marty.crooks@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 8:28:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Yaw Damper
I noticed that Garmin has a yaw damper for the -10 now. For those flying, is this
needed? Is the plane unstable in yaw axis or dutch roll in turbulence enough
to justify the yaw damper?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435088#435088
Message 5
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|
As others have said, it's not "needed", but those who have them will tell
you it sure is "nice", especially when you basically get free rudder trim
out of the deal. It also depends on where/how you fly (and how the plane is
loaded obviously) and who is in the back seat. Front seat folks will rarely
notice the waggle, and well heeled small airplane passengers in the back
also won't really notice, but if you have folks who are either not
accustomed to small aircraft or prone to not liking the slight waggle that
you occasionally get, then it's a nice addition.
I've seen several dozen of these installed, and yet to hear a complaint from
those using them....but as previously mentioned (like many things in the
planes), it's not a "must have", but it is a "nice to have". Kind of like
Heated Seats for some of us! :)
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Yaw Damper
I noticed that Garmin has a yaw damper for the -10 now. For those flying, is
this needed? Is the plane unstable in yaw axis or dutch roll in turbulence
enough to justify the yaw damper?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435088#435088
Message 6
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|
Wife wants it. I have it, not installed yet. Stein describes the reasons perfectly.
Gaylon Koenning
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
>
> As others have said, it's not "needed", but those who have them will tell
> you it sure is "nice", especially when you basically get free rudder trim
> out of the deal. It also depends on where/how you fly (and how the plane is
> loaded obviously) and who is in the back seat. Front seat folks will rarely
> notice the waggle, and well heeled small airplane passengers in the back
> also won't really notice, but if you have folks who are either not
> accustomed to small aircraft or prone to not liking the slight waggle that
> you occasionally get, then it's a nice addition.
>
> I've seen several dozen of these installed, and yet to hear a complaint from
> those using them....but as previously mentioned (like many things in the
> planes), it's not a "must have", but it is a "nice to have". Kind of like
> Heated Seats for some of us! :)
>
> Cheers,
> Stein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:28 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Yaw Damper
>
>
> I noticed that Garmin has a yaw damper for the -10 now. For those flying, is
> this needed? Is the plane unstable in yaw axis or dutch roll in turbulence
> enough to justify the yaw damper?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435088#435088
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | New Engine Questions |
Hi everyone, hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Our engine came in last week, and I have a few questions that I cannot seem
to find answers to.
1) What torque should the Engine Mount Ears be attached with? The closest
I have found is in the Lycoming Service Table of Limits; and the best I can
determine is 30 Ft.Lbs. Can anyone verify?
2) The engine ships with preservation oil, and the procedure calls for you
to tilt the engine side to side to drain the oil out of the bottom plugs.
Being as though it may be another year before I actually start the engine
up, should I leave the preservation oil in and worry about emptying it
closer to first start up? Or should I empty it now where I do have the
ability of tilting it side to side on the engine hoist, and put the first
batch of lubrication oil in? What have others done?
3) Van's sent me Lycoming Service Instruction 1435; conversion from fixed
pitch to constant speed prop. Am I correct to assume that the stock IO-540
from Lycoming is already set up for constant speed? Or is this something
we all have to do to convert it from fixed pitch?
4) Slick Start Magneto Booster - Is this thing really worth $800? Anyone
out there have experience with and without the booster?
5) A little off topic; but propellers. I wanted to go 3 bladed, because I
love the comfort and smoothness 3 blades gives you over 2 bladed props. I
chose the MT over the Hartzell propeller, mainly because it was $5k
cheaper. Is this a decision I am going to regret later? Anyone have any
experience with both MT and Hartzell, any input?
Thanks!
--
Vernon Franklin
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: New Engine Questions |
I'll reply below.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 6:02 PM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com> w
rote:
>
> Hi everyone, hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
>
> Our engine came in last week, and I have a few questions that I cannot see
m to find answers to.
>
> 1) What torque should the Engine Mount Ears be attached with? The closest
I have found is in the Lycoming Service Table of Limits; and the best I can
determine is 30 Ft.Lbs. Can anyone verify?
That sounds right, but go with the steel but to steel studs torque value. So
me of those nuts are really hard to get a good grip on to tighten.
>
> 2) The engine ships with preservation oil, and the procedure calls for you
to tilt the engine side to side to drain the oil out of the bottom plugs. B
eing as though it may be another year before I actually start the engine up,
should I leave the preservation oil in and worry about emptying it closer t
o first start up? Or should I empty it now where I do have the ability of t
ilting it side to side on the engine hoist, and put the first batch of lubri
cation oil in? What have others done?
I'd leave it. Make sure not to turn the crankshaft at all until you are clos
e to being ready to run it. You don't absolutely need to get every drop of o
il out. You can just drain it and add new oil to run. Also, you want to have
a quickdrain on hand when you are ready to oil the engine so you can replac
e the plug with it.
>
> 3) Van's sent me Lycoming Service Instruction 1435; conversion from fixed p
itch to constant speed prop. Am I correct to assume that the stock IO-540 f
rom Lycoming is already set up for constant speed? Or is this something we a
ll have to do to convert it from fixed pitch?
It should be set up for constant speed, but will probably have a crankshaft f
ront plug it to seal the steel. When you pull it out (later), make sure the a
ft plug is in (about 6 inches back from the front plug) and you're good to g
o.
>
> 4) Slick Start Magneto Booster - Is this thing really worth $800? Anyone o
ut there have experience with and without the booster?
If you don't have an impulse coupled mag, you need the slick start. For some
reason engines from Van's don't come stock with impulse coupled mags.
>
> 5) A little off topic; but propellers. I wanted to go 3 bladed, because I
love the comfort and smoothness 3 blades gives you over 2 bladed props. I c
hose the MT over the Hartzell propeller, mainly because it was $5k cheaper.
Is this a decision I am going to regret later? Anyone have any experience w
ith both MT and Hartzell, any input?
The Hartzell composite prop is a little slower than the MT, although it is m
uch sexier. The nicest looking 3-blade, IMHO, is the whirlwind. Next is the a
ero composite (not in production any more, but available used for good price
, contact me off list about one). The Hartzell is nice, but the blades are r
eally fat. The MT is, IMHO, the least desirable based on looks, and possibly
based on durability. All 3-blade props are more work than the Hartzell 2-bl
ade, mainly due to the difficulty of removing the bottom cowl. Also, the met
al blades are more durable and nick-resistant than composite blades. The 2-b
lade is at least as fast as the fastest 3-blade, if not faster.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
>
>
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: New Engine Questions |
1. I don't have my engine manual handy, cannot answer.
2. By all means, leave the preservation oil in. But the cylinders may be full of
oil, do not rotate the prop/crankshaft. When ready to run, pull all plugs, rotate
the crank, oil will come out the bottom plug holes and make a mess.
3. My Vans engine came with the plug in the crank for fixed pitch, I had to pull
it. Yours may be different. If you have it the plug is just an inch or two
in from the flange
4. The standard engine from Vans does not have impulse mags. Just one with a retard
mag. I would say the Slick start is necessary. With a good battery it might
start without the Slickstart but you risk kickback if you don't use the retard
feature.
5. Props. Well, you stated the reasons why you want to spend more to go slower
(compared to a two blade). For sure, modify the lower cowl by extending the nose
gear slot further forward (re-attachable with screws) so you can get the lower
cowl off with a three blade in the way.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435187#435187
Message 10
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Subject: | New Engine Questions |
I have a comment about the prop. I have the 2 blade Hartzell and my friend
Dan in the same hangar has the MT 3 blade. I have the stock IO 540 and he
has the tuned air induction engine-probably 15 HP more. We have conducted n
on scientific tests. On a climb to 1000 feet he is a hundred feet ahead of
me. In a cruise same mp and rpm I Am about 7 kts faster. The biggest proble
m I see with the 3 blade in that you have to pull the tail almost to the fl
oor to remove the bottom cowl. Both good props though.
Leon Everett
Subject: RV10-List: New Engine Questions
From: vernon.franklin@gmail.com
Hi everyone=2C hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Our engine came in last week=2C and I have a few questions that I cannot se
em to find answers to.
1) What torque should the Engine Mount Ears be attached with? The closest
I have found is in the Lycoming Service Table of Limits=3B and the best I c
an determine is 30 Ft.Lbs. Can anyone verify?
2) The engine ships with preservation oil=2C and the procedure calls for yo
u to tilt the engine side to side to drain the oil out of the bottom plugs.
Being as though it may be another year before I actually start the engine
up=2C should I leave the preservation oil in and worry about emptying it c
loser to first start up? Or should I empty it now where I do have the abil
ity of tilting it side to side on the engine hoist=2C and put the first bat
ch of lubrication oil in? What have others done?
3) Van's sent me Lycoming Service Instruction 1435=3B conversion from fixed
pitch to constant speed prop. Am I correct to assume that the stock IO-54
0 from Lycoming is already set up for constant speed? Or is this something
we all have to do to convert it from fixed pitch?
4) Slick Start Magneto Booster - Is this thing really worth $800? Anyone o
ut there have experience with and without the booster?
5) A little off topic=3B but propellers. I wanted to go 3 bladed=2C becaus
e I love the comfort and smoothness 3 blades gives you over 2 bladed props.
I chose the MT over the Hartzell propeller=2C mainly because it was $5k c
heaper. Is this a decision I am going to regret later? Anyone have any ex
perience with both MT and Hartzell=2C any input?
Thanks!
--
Vernon Franklin
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: New Engine Questions |
See below.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> 1. I don't have my engine manual handy, cannot answer.
> 2. By all means, leave the preservation oil in. But the cylinders may be full
of oil, do not rotate the prop/crankshaft. When ready to run, pull all plugs,
rotate the crank, oil will come out the bottom plug holes and make a mess.
Then fill with new oil and crank with the plugs out until you get oil pressure
before going to fire the first time.
> 3. My Vans engine came with the plug in the crank for fixed pitch, I had to
pull it. Yours may be different. If you have it the plug is just an inch or two
in from the flange
There are two plug locations, one for fixed pitch and one for constant speed. The
Van's engine comes with both plugs in, so you pull the front one for constant
speed. If you want fixed pitch, you have to pull the front plug, remove or
punch a hole in the rear plug, the put a new front plug in.
> 4. The standard engine from Vans does not have impulse mags. Just one with a
retard mag. I would say the Slick start is necessary. With a good battery it might
start without the Slickstart but you risk kickback if you don't use the retard
feature.
It will start fine cold and with a great battery, but hot start will likely not
fire. Ask me how I know.
> 5. Props. Well, you stated the reasons why you want to spend more to go slower
(compared to a two blade). For sure, modify the lower cowl by extending the
nose gear slot further forward (re-attachable with screws) so you can get the
lower cowl off with a three blade in the way.
Amen to the 2-blade, brother!
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435187#435187
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: New Engine Questions |
The scientific way to test is to trade props and do the same test.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:26 PM, LEON EVERETT <leeverett@msn.com> wrote:
>
> I have a comment about the prop. I have the 2 blade Hartzell and my friend
Dan in the same hangar has the MT 3 blade. I have the stock IO 540 and he h
as the tuned air induction engine-probably 15 HP more. We have conducted non
scientific tests. On a climb to 1000 feet he is a hundred feet ahead of me.
In a cruise same mp and rpm I Am about 7 kts faster. The biggest problem I s
ee with the 3 blade in that you have to pull the tail almost to the floor to
remove the bottom cowl. Both good props though.
> Leon Everett
>
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:02:05 -0600
> Subject: RV10-List: New Engine Questions
> From: vernon.franklin@gmail.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> Hi everyone, hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
>
> Our engine came in last week, and I have a few questions that I cannot see
m to find answers to.
>
> 1) What torque should the Engine Mount Ears be attached with? The closest
I have found is in the Lycoming Service Table of Limits; and the best I can
determine is 30 Ft.Lbs. Can anyone verify?
>
> 2) The engine ships with preservation oil, and the procedure calls for you
to tilt the engine side to side to drain the oil out of the bottom plugs. B
eing as though it may be another year before I actually start the engine up,
should I leave the preservation oil in and worry about emptying it closer t
o first start up? Or should I empty it now where I do have the ability of t
ilting it side to side on the engine hoist, and put the first batch of lubri
cation oil in? What have others done?
>
> 3) Van's sent me Lycoming Service Instruction 1435; conversion from fixed p
itch to constant speed prop. Am I correct to assume that the stock IO-540 f
rom Lycoming is already set up for constant speed? Or is this something we a
ll have to do to convert it from fixed pitch?
>
> 4) Slick Start Magneto Booster - Is this thing really worth $800? Anyone o
ut there have experience with and without the booster?
>
> 5) A little off topic; but propellers. I wanted to go 3 bladed, because I
love the comfort and smoothness 3 blades gives you over 2 bladed props. I c
hose the MT over the Hartzell propeller, mainly because it was $5k cheaper.
Is this a decision I am going to regret later? Anyone have any experience w
ith both MT and Hartzell, any input?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
>
>
> et=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> ks.com" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> rget=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> rget=_blank>www.mypilotstore.com
> =_blank>www.mrrace.com
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ist" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ank>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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Subject: | Re: New Engine Questions |
Jesse is correct, of course. I've read one A-B comparison here: RV10 owner had
a 3 blade MT, had to send it back for repair (FOD), got a 2 blade loaner. 2 blade
was faster (I forget the numbers) enough he was looking to sell the repaired
MT.
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435192#435192
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