Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:26 AM - Re: Latest Parking brake victim (johngoodman)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: Re: Latest Parking brake victim (David Saylor)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Latest Parking brake victim (Linn Walters)
4. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Latest Parking brake victim (Kelly McMullen)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: Latest Parking brake victim (johngoodman)
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Latest Parking brake victim (Linn Walters)
7. 08:23 AM - Oil Filter Question (Phillip Perry)
8. 08:40 AM - Re: Oil Filter Question (Tim Olson)
9. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Latest Parking brake victim (David Saylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Latest Parking brake victim |
[quote="saylor.dave(at)gmail.com"]I've pretty much given up on teflon paste-type
thread sealants. I prefer Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on threads these days.
--Dave
/quote]
Dave, Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Number One, or Number Three? Spruce sells
both.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435735#435735
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Latest Parking brake victim |
I use No. 3.
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:23 AM, johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
>
> [quote="saylor.dave(at)gmail.com"]I've pretty much given up on teflon
> paste-type thread sealants. I prefer Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on
> threads these days.
>
> --Dave
> /quote]
>
> Dave, Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Number One, or Number Three? Spruce
> sells both.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435735#435735
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Latest Parking brake victim |
On 12/15/2014 8:23 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
> [quote="saylor.dave(at)gmail.com"]I've pretty much given up on teflon paste-type
thread sealants. I prefer Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on threads these
days.
>
> --Dave
> /quote]
>
> Dave, Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Number One, or Number Three? Spruce sells
both.
> John
>
I really hate to see this thread rear it's ugly head over and over.
Proper use of AN fittings should (read that word again) not require
thread sealants. If you have a leak then there's something wrong and
covering up the problem with thread sealant (to me) isn't the best
course of action.
Nowhere in AC43.12-1B does the term 'thread sealant' appear. Yeah, I
know ..... "it's experimental and I can do what I want."
Almost all of the 'thread sealant' problems I've helped 'fix' are in the
brake system ..... almost all due to sealant debris in the brake master
cylinder. It appears that some folks think "If a little thread sealant
helps, then lots if thread sealant must be better."
In Kelly's email he mentions the DEL seals for flare fittings. They're
available and acceptable to 'fix' leaking flare fittings, although they
aren't in AC43.13-1B either. Properly made and maintained, flare
fittings should not leak. But they do because they were 'over flared'
(my term) or over time the nut had been tightened by a gorilla with a
wrench trying to stop a leak. I've seen thin flares on certified and
experimentals, and even seen JB weld in there as a 'fix'.
Don't misunderstand me. I used to 'fix' stuff using whatever method was
available, but having seen what happens over time I try and correct the
problem instead of covering it up. And yes, I may still go off the deep
end trying to be creative 'fixing' when I couldn't actually fix the
problem correctly.
Linn
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Latest Parking brake victim |
Many of the flare fittings in the brake system have pipe threads on the
other end(at parking brake, at master cylinders.) It is the pipe threads
that benefit from the sealant, NOT the flare fittings, which as you say
should be nothing but clean and dry. Tubing flares are kind of like
bucked rivets. The first few efforts are really ugly and over time they
improve to acceptable to very nice. With the tubing that is fabricated
for the -10 you would need twice as much to get skilled and making
perfect flares. Fortunately Vans has you do the brake lines before the
fuel lines. Sure, I could remake some of the lines. Unfortunately, Vans
chose to supply the lowest grade tubing, and obviously some builders
chose to substitute higher quality tubing. However a buck or so for the
DEL seal accomplishes the same thing as remaking a tube, in a lot less
time and money. Some of my seeps were hardly noticeable without use of a
clean paper towel to catch the hint of red. I don't want to have to deal
with such seepage later, so I made a major effort to ensure each fitting
was perfectly dry after applying pressure to the system for over an hour
with the parking brake holding enough pressure to keep the calipers
locked. In actual use, such minor seepage would not have been detected
for a long time...just my choice of how to test and perfect the system.
On 12/15/2014 7:23 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> On 12/15/2014 8:23 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>> <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>>
>> [quote="saylor.dave(at)gmail.com"]I've pretty much given up on teflon
>> paste-type thread sealants. I prefer Permatex Aviation
>> Form-A-Gasket on threads these days.
>>
>> --Dave
>> /quote]
>>
>> Dave, Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Number One, or Number Three?
>> Spruce sells both.
>> John
>>
> I really hate to see this thread rear it's ugly head over and over.
> Proper use of AN fittings should (read that word again) not require
> thread sealants. If you have a leak then there's something wrong and
> covering up the problem with thread sealant (to me) isn't the best
> course of action.
> Nowhere in AC43.12-1B does the term 'thread sealant' appear. Yeah, I
> know ..... "it's experimental and I can do what I want."
>
> Almost all of the 'thread sealant' problems I've helped 'fix' are in
> the brake system ..... almost all due to sealant debris in the brake
> master cylinder. It appears that some folks think "If a little thread
> sealant helps, then lots if thread sealant must be better."
>
> In Kelly's email he mentions the DEL seals for flare fittings. They're
> available and acceptable to 'fix' leaking flare fittings, although
> they aren't in AC43.13-1B either. Properly made and maintained, flare
> fittings should not leak. But they do because they were 'over flared'
> (my term) or over time the nut had been tightened by a gorilla with a
> wrench trying to stop a leak. I've seen thin flares on certified and
> experimentals, and even seen JB weld in there as a 'fix'.
>
> Don't misunderstand me. I used to 'fix' stuff using whatever method
> was available, but having seen what happens over time I try and
> correct the problem instead of covering it up. And yes, I may still go
> off the deep end trying to be creative 'fixing' when I couldn't
> actually fix the problem correctly.
> Linn
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Latest Parking brake victim |
> Properly made and maintained, flare fittings should not leak. But they do because
they were 'over flared' (my term) or over time the nut had been tightened
by a gorilla with a wrench trying to stop a leak.
The key words there are "properly made." I wonder where those fittings are actually
made? My experience (very limited to one RV-10) has shown me that about 5
to 10 percent of fittings always leak. Replace them with another and the problem
is solved. The hardest one to find was a female pipe thread that turned out
to be out of round. I got an exact replacement from the same store, and found
the same problem. Changed brands, and the problem was solved.
Never buy a car made on a Monday... [Laughing]
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435739#435739
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Latest Parking brake victim |
Both kelly (pipe thread) and John (chinese? fittings) make good points.
It isn't easy to dodge all the bullets. I've been hit more than once.
It's all a learning experience.
One thing I have done is to draw a vacuum (think "mighty vac") from the
reservoir before filling with fluid. I expect to find really slow leaks
.... mostly from dry seals .... but nothing major. You'll find loose
flare nuts that way. Putting 10 - 20 pounds pressure into the reservoir
after filling with fluid should show where the leaks are within an hour
or so. Left overnight though you may find puddles. BTDT.
Another thing I've learned about flaring aluminum tubing (the hard way)
is to go slow, backing off like you do with a tap, and using plenty of
lubricant. I think going slow allows the aluminum to flow rather than
crack. I use 5606 brake fluid for lubricant.
My 2 pennies, IMHO, and all the other disclaimers!!!!
Linn
On 12/15/2014 10:01 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
>
>> Properly made and maintained, flare fittings should not leak. But they do because
they were 'over flared' (my term) or over time the nut had been tightened
by a gorilla with a wrench trying to stop a leak.
>
> The key words there are "properly made." I wonder where those fittings are actually
made? My experience (very limited to one RV-10) has shown me that about
5 to 10 percent of fittings always leak. Replace them with another and the problem
is solved. The hardest one to find was a female pipe thread that turned
out to be out of round. I got an exact replacement from the same store, and found
the same problem. Changed brands, and the problem was solved.
> Never buy a car made on a Monday... [Laughing]
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435739#435739
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Oil Filter Question |
I'm getting ready to put a pre-oiler on my airframe and was placing the
order. One of their questions involved the type/model of the oil
filter... That got me to thinking..
What filter are most folks going with? My engine builder (Aerosport)
shipped my D4A5 with a Champion CH48109-1.
I'm just curious to know how much different my filter is from others
because I searched the archives for CH48109-1 and the results came back
empty. I'm not sure if I should be concerned or oblivious to the fact that
I'm the only one who could be running it.
Phil
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Filter Question |
It will probably depend on what filter adapter you use.
Mine I think uses 48110. I know some others use
48108 too. So it'll all depend.
BTW: I only use tempest filters now. You may want to
make sure that they sell the one you need.
Tim
On 12/15/2014 10:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I'm getting ready to put a pre-oiler on my airframe and was placing the
> order. One of their questions involved the type/model of the oil
> filter... That got me to thinking..
>
> What filter are most folks going with? My engine builder (Aerosport)
> shipped my D4A5 with a Champion CH48109-1.
>
> I'm just curious to know how much different my filter is from others
> because I searched the archives for CH48109-1 and the results came back
> empty. I'm not sure if I should be concerned or oblivious to the fact
> that I'm the only one who could be running it.
>
> Phil
>
> *\
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Latest Parking brake victim |
Sure, never use any sealants on a b-nut. Just pipe threads. I figured
that's what Kelly was describing.
--D
On Monday, December 15, 2014, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Both kelly (pipe thread) and John (chinese? fittings) make good points.
> It isn't easy to dodge all the bullets. I've been hit more than once. It's
> all a learning experience.
>
> One thing I have done is to draw a vacuum (think "mighty vac") from the
> reservoir before filling with fluid. I expect to find really slow leaks
> .... mostly from dry seals .... but nothing major. You'll find loose flare
> nuts that way. Putting 10 - 20 pounds pressure into the reservoir after
> filling with fluid should show where the leaks are within an hour or so.
> Left overnight though you may find puddles. BTDT.
>
> Another thing I've learned about flaring aluminum tubing (the hard way) is
> to go slow, backing off like you do with a tap, and using plenty of
> lubricant. I think going slow allows the aluminum to flow rather than
> crack. I use 5606 brake fluid for lubricant.
> My 2 pennies, IMHO, and all the other disclaimers!!!!
> Linn
>
> On 12/15/2014 10:01 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>>
>> Properly made and maintained, flare fittings should not leak. But they
>>> do because they were 'over flared' (my term) or over time the nut had been
>>> tightened by a gorilla with a wrench trying to stop a leak.
>>>
>>
>> The key words there are "properly made." I wonder where those fittings
>> are actually made? My experience (very limited to one RV-10) has shown me
>> that about 5 to 10 percent of fittings always leak. Replace them with
>> another and the problem is solved. The hardest one to find was a female
>> pipe thread that turned out to be out of round. I got an exact replacement
>> from the same store, and found the same problem. Changed brands, and the
>> problem was solved.
>> Never buy a car made on a Monday... [Laughing]
>> John
>>
>> --------
>> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435739#435739
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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