Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:07 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Werner Schneider)
2. 06:13 AM - Re: PC680 vs PC925 (bill.peyton)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Carl Froehlich)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Linn Walters)
5. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Kelly McMullen)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Kelly McMullen)
7. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Flysrv10)
8. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Pascal)
9. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Phillip Perry)
10. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Flysrv10)
11. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Bill Watson)
12. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Linn Walters)
13. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Phillip Perry)
14. 11:08 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Bill Watson)
15. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Danny Riggs)
16. 12:56 PM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Kelly McMullen)
17. 12:58 PM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Kelly McMullen)
18. 02:55 PM - Re: PC680 vs PC925 (woxofswa)
19. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Phillip Perry)
20. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: PC680 vs PC925 (Kelly McMullen)
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine
monitor being up on start?
On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes
alive I think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up
and it is a very cheap (and the only)
backup for my EMS.
And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
Cheers Werner
On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots are
a PITA.
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
I have a dual bus system with two alternators, a PC680 and PC925L. I manage the
batteries using an automated charge relay. This device is manufactured by Blue
Seas Technology. P/N 7611. The ACR monitors the charge voltage, battery voltage
and charge current and will automatically connect or disconnect depending
on the parameters. This system will never allow a dead battery, or shorted
battery to be combine charged, which is extremely important with a dual battery
system. This system will not combine the batteries for starting, and will
only combine the batteries when the charging bus is greater than 13.5 volts.
Either alternator and either side of the bus can be used to charge both batteries.
I typically fly with only the main alternator field energized and treat
the second alternator as a standby.
The dual bus allows me plenty of time to get a clearance and enter flight plans,
then start the engine on the 925 without any ill affect to the avionics. The
925 has plenty of juice to rapidly spin up the engine for starting. I have
no experience with just the 680.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438705#438705
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
Yep - that is what I do. The panel comes up after engine start. While
Dynon assured me the SkyView system is not at risk for engine start voltage
transients, Garmin provided no such guarantee. The last damn thing I want
is to have to engage Garmin again to fix the GTN-650. In any case, why
expose these high price electronics to such transients if not needed?
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: PC680 vs PC925
Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
being up on start?
On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive I
think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked to a LED shows me immediately on start
up if the oil pressure comes up and it is a very cheap (and the only) backup
for my EMS.
And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
Cheers Werner
On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots
are a PITA.
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
You have a point, but the starting transient problem pretty much goes
away when you add the reverse current diode across the master and start
contactor coils.
Also, modern electronics (should) have switching power supplies which
are fairly immune to those reverse-current spikes.
I put dual MGL Odyssey panels in my RV-10 (not flying yet) panel and
each one has it's own backup battery ...... a sealed battery for that
goes into exit lights.
There isn't that much current draw for the panels themselves.
Having said all that, I wouldn't want to risk a Garmin repair cost either!!
Linn ..... mounting wheel pants
On 2/25/2015 9:24 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Yep - that is what I do. The panel comes up after engine start. While
> Dynon assured me the SkyView system is not at risk for engine start voltage
> transients, Garmin provided no such guarantee. The last damn thing I want
> is to have to engage Garmin again to fix the GTN-650. In any case, why
> expose these high price electronics to such transients if not needed?
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:04 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: PC680 vs PC925
>
>
> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
> being up on start?
> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive I
> think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked to a LED shows me immediately on start
> up if the oil pressure comes up and it is a very cheap (and the only) backup
> for my EMS.
>
> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots
> are a PITA.
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
Well, I took what I perceive as a simpler route. One PC925L battery, a
Dynon backup battery on each screen, and a separate switch for my GTN650
and my second Dynon screen. Mostly to minimize electrical load before
start to a single screen. If I wanted the 650 to be on and stay on
during start, I would put a TCW IBBS on it. I don't perceive much
benefit from doing dual bus, dual battery, dual alternator systems as I
don't intend to fly that much IFR. Not to mention my IFR flying started
35 yrs ago with two venturis to drive AN AH and DG, with single nav/com
and single manually tuned ADF. No transponder, just bare bones. Not sure
I will be able to handle no ADF, full Dynon Skyview EFIS with GTN650 and
knowing exactly where I am on any chart. 8^)
On 2/25/2015 7:24 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Yep - that is what I do. The panel comes up after engine start. While
> Dynon assured me the SkyView system is not at risk for engine start voltage
> transients, Garmin provided no such guarantee. The last damn thing I want
> is to have to engage Garmin again to fix the GTN-650. In any case, why
> expose these high price electronics to such transients if not needed?
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:04 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: PC680 vs PC925
>
>
> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
> being up on start?
> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive I
> think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked to a LED shows me immediately on start
> up if the oil pressure comes up and it is a very cheap (and the only) backup
> for my EMS.
>
> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots
> are a PITA.
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
The problem during start is NOT transient spikes, especially of higher
voltage. The problem is LOW voltage from the starter current draw.
Most avionics today are rated for 8 - 32v because they have their own
power supply controlling voltage to what the individual circuit boards need.
1960s avionics had first generation transistors and ICs that were very
sensitive to low voltage and were easily fried by same. But the industry
ASSUMED that there were high voltage spikes, so implemented avionics
master switches. It solved the problem, without ever determining what
the real failure mode was.
On 2/25/2015 7:57 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> You have a point, but the starting transient problem pretty much goes
> away when you add the reverse current diode across the master and
> start contactor coils.
> Also, modern electronics (should) have switching power supplies which
> are fairly immune to those reverse-current spikes.
> I put dual MGL Odyssey panels in my RV-10 (not flying yet) panel and
> each one has it's own backup battery ...... a sealed battery for that
> goes into exit lights.
>
> There isn't that much current draw for the panels themselves.
>
> Having said all that, I wouldn't want to risk a Garmin repair cost
> either!!
> Linn ..... mounting wheel pants
>
> On 2/25/2015 9:24 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>
>> Yep - that is what I do. The panel comes up after engine start. While
>> Dynon assured me the SkyView system is not at risk for engine start
>> voltage
>> transients, Garmin provided no such guarantee. The last damn thing I
>> want
>> is to have to engage Garmin again to fix the GTN-650. In any case, why
>> expose these high price electronics to such transients if not needed?
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
>> Schneider
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:04 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: PC680 vs PC925
>>
>>
>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine
>> monitor
>> being up on start?
>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes
>> alive I
>> think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked to a LED shows me immediately on
>> start
>> up if the oil pressure comes up and it is a very cheap (and the only)
>> backup
>> for my EMS.
>>
>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on
>> start up.
>>
>> Cheers Werner
>>
>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so
>>> reboots
>> are a PITA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the plane
behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienced that I
have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events.
Thanks.
Do not archive.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor being
up on start?
> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive I think
with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up and it
is a very cheap (and the only)
> backup for my EMS.
>
> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
>
> Cheers Werner
>
>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots are
a PITA.
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
IIm a control freak! I am constantly looking at the EMS. I also make
mistakes, if I waited 10 seconds to find out that the CHT was sky rocketing
for a reason I dont know about until my EMS came on, well I would ask
myself why I didnt have more control of my engine, and feel I made a grave
mistake. Oil pressure may not be an issue but stuck something in my engine
may be. Engine starts, to me are the most critical time to assure there is
nothing that is wrong with the engine. For me, having visibility to the
engin, even if nothing ever goes wrong, it very reassuring.. Like I said Im
a control freak when it comes to the engine. That and my wife's random
question of "is that normal?" and the fear she'll ask me right after I start
the engine and Im glad I can tell her based on facts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Flysrv10
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: PC680 vs PC925
I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the
plane behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienced
that I have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events.
Thanks.
Do not archive.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
> being up on start?
> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive
> I think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up and
> it is a very cheap (and the only)
> backup for my EMS.
>
> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start
> up.
>
> Cheers Werner
>
>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots
>> are a PITA.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
Operating a dual dual system is really easy. There's very little that needs to
be learned beyond throwing a switch. It's good to know the system, but it's
really not a burden. The complexity is really a matter of understanding the
wiring. That's the part that most people get intimidated by.
As far as EIS, we've always had oil pressure monitoring from the second he engine
started it was just performed via an analog gauge. I have seen Lycoming's
that failed to produce oil pressure (or enough pressure to get in the green)
after engine start. That's why the gauge is there and every engine manual and
pre-flight checklist says to start the engine, set the RPM, and confirm oil pressure
in the green. Without an operating EIS, you don't have RPM or pressure
information.
Also, I can personally attest to the value of seeing voltage information in addition
to oil/engine information. I melted down a C-152'a panel and caused a small
fire when I was doing my flight training. The starter bendix never disengaged
from the flywheel and when I added power to adjust the RPM, the starter
became an unregulated generator. It dumped unregulated high voltages back into
the electrical system smoking some equipment, lots of wires, and causing fire
damage behind the panel. It was a terrible experience.
If I had voltage information from the start, I would have been alerted that there
was higher than normal voltage on the buss and I would have known to shut it
down and investigate more.
So there is value in having that information available. In that cassette would
have saved the FBO some $$ and kept their plane in service. For me, it was
just a lesson learned to check those voltages (with the alt off) while checking
oil pressures after engine start.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the plane
behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
>
> I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
>
> Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienced that
I have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor being
up on start?
>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive I
think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
>> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up and it
is a very cheap (and the only)
>> backup for my EMS.
>>
>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
>>
>> Cheers Werner
>>
>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots are
a PITA.
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
Phil, I am assuming that the Cessna had the engine information available at start
up and guessing that it still did not help you prevent the melt down. Yes,
there are times that malfunction happens at the worst time but is it worth all
the complexities to prevent a rare event. In my many yes and hrs of flying, I
never witnessed one on my plane and others.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Operating a dual dual system is really easy. There's very little that needs to
be learned beyond throwing a switch. It's good to know the system, but it's
really not a burden. The complexity is really a matter of understanding the
wiring. That's the part that most people get intimidated by.
>
> As far as EIS, we've always had oil pressure monitoring from the second he engine
started it was just performed via an analog gauge. I have seen Lycoming's
that failed to produce oil pressure (or enough pressure to get in the green)
after engine start. That's why the gauge is there and every engine manual and
pre-flight checklist says to start the engine, set the RPM, and confirm oil
pressure in the green. Without an operating EIS, you don't have RPM or pressure
information.
>
> Also, I can personally attest to the value of seeing voltage information in addition
to oil/engine information. I melted down a C-152'a panel and caused a
small fire when I was doing my flight training. The starter bendix never disengaged
from the flywheel and when I added power to adjust the RPM, the starter
became an unregulated generator. It dumped unregulated high voltages back
into the electrical system smoking some equipment, lots of wires, and causing
fire damage behind the panel. It was a terrible experience.
>
> If I had voltage information from the start, I would have been alerted that there
was higher than normal voltage on the buss and I would have known to shut
it down and investigate more.
>
> So there is value in having that information available. In that cassette would
have saved the FBO some $$ and kept their plane in service. For me, it was
just a lesson learned to check those voltages (with the alt off) while checking
oil pressures after engine start.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the plane
behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
>>
>> I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
>>
>> Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienced that
I have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Do not archive.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
being up on start?
>>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive I
think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
>>> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up and
it is a very cheap (and the only)
>>> backup for my EMS.
>>>
>>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
>>>
>>> Cheers Werner
>>>
>>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots are
a PITA.
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
On 2/25/2015 1:12 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> I have a 925 in the back and I never have to worry about not having enough juice
for starting.
...and I don't think a single 680 is enough for an IO540 and the RV10.
The 925 seems like the right battery for a single battery installation.
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
Thanks Kelly ..... the transients part came from Carl's email.
IMHO if your starter is drawing the voltage down to where the panels
reset, I think you have either a bad (or too small .... CCA) battery or
too small wiring to the starter ..... or both. OK, severe cold might do
it ..... what's the CCA of a PCXXX battery at -10????
Like I said, a small, sealed Gel Cell battery as a backup will fix those
'brownouts'.
I also see starting problems stemming from the use of the airframe as a
ground return for the battery. I ran a #2 cable to the engine for a ground.
Linn ..... mounting wheel pants
On 2/25/2015 10:13 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> The problem during start is NOT transient spikes, especially of higher
> voltage. The problem is LOW voltage from the starter current draw.
> Most avionics today are rated for 8 - 32v because they have their own
> power supply controlling voltage to what the individual circuit boards
> need.
> 1960s avionics had first generation transistors and ICs that were very
> sensitive to low voltage and were easily fried by same. But the
> industry ASSUMED that there were high voltage spikes, so implemented
> avionics master switches. It solved the problem, without ever
> determining what the real failure mode was.
>
> On 2/25/2015 7:57 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> You have a point, but the starting transient problem pretty much goes
>> away when you add the reverse current diode across the master and
>> start contactor coils.
>> Also, modern electronics (should) have switching power supplies which
>> are fairly immune to those reverse-current spikes.
>> I put dual MGL Odyssey panels in my RV-10 (not flying yet) panel and
>> each one has it's own backup battery ...... a sealed battery for that
>> goes into exit lights.
>>
>> There isn't that much current draw for the panels themselves.
>>
>> Having said all that, I wouldn't want to risk a Garmin repair cost
>> either!!
>> Linn ..... mounting wheel pants
>>
>> On 2/25/2015 9:24 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>>
>>> Yep - that is what I do. The panel comes up after engine start. While
>>> Dynon assured me the SkyView system is not at risk for engine start
>>> voltage
>>> transients, Garmin provided no such guarantee. The last damn thing
>>> I want
>>> is to have to engage Garmin again to fix the GTN-650. In any case, why
>>> expose these high price electronics to such transients if not needed?
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
>>> Schneider
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:04 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: PC680 vs PC925
>>>
>>>
>>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine
>>> monitor
>>> being up on start?
>>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes
>>> alive I
>>> think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked to a LED shows me immediately
>>> on start
>>> up if the oil pressure comes up and it is a very cheap (and the
>>> only) backup
>>> for my EMS.
>>>
>>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on
>>> start up.
>>>
>>> Cheers Werner
>>>
>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so
>>>> reboots
>>> are a PITA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
It did and I didn't look to confirm it. That's why I said an EIS would have prevented
it because it would have flagged and over voltage annunciation and chimed
my headset. It wouldn't have been missed with a running EIS.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:12 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Phil, I am assuming that the Cessna had the engine information available at start
up and guessing that it still did not help you prevent the melt down. Yes,
there are times that malfunction happens at the worst time but is it worth all
the complexities to prevent a rare event. In my many yes and hrs of flying,
I never witnessed one on my plane and others.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Operating a dual dual system is really easy. There's very little that needs
to be learned beyond throwing a switch. It's good to know the system, but it's
really not a burden. The complexity is really a matter of understanding the
wiring. That's the part that most people get intimidated by.
>>
>> As far as EIS, we've always had oil pressure monitoring from the second he engine
started it was just performed via an analog gauge. I have seen Lycoming's
that failed to produce oil pressure (or enough pressure to get in the green)
after engine start. That's why the gauge is there and every engine manual
and pre-flight checklist says to start the engine, set the RPM, and confirm oil
pressure in the green. Without an operating EIS, you don't have RPM or pressure
information.
>>
>> Also, I can personally attest to the value of seeing voltage information in
addition to oil/engine information. I melted down a C-152'a panel and caused
a small fire when I was doing my flight training. The starter bendix never disengaged
from the flywheel and when I added power to adjust the RPM, the starter
became an unregulated generator. It dumped unregulated high voltages back
into the electrical system smoking some equipment, lots of wires, and causing
fire damage behind the panel. It was a terrible experience.
>>
>> If I had voltage information from the start, I would have been alerted that
there was higher than normal voltage on the buss and I would have known to shut
it down and investigate more.
>>
>> So there is value in having that information available. In that cassette would
have saved the FBO some $$ and kept their plane in service. For me, it was
just a lesson learned to check those voltages (with the alt off) while checking
oil pressures after engine start.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the plane
behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
>>>
>>> I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
>>>
>>> Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienced that
I have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Do not archive.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
being up on start?
>>>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive
I think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
>>>> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up and
it is a very cheap (and the only)
>>>> backup for my EMS.
>>>>
>>>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Werner
>>>>
>>>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots
are a PITA.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
On 2/25/2015 11:51 AM, Flysrv10 wrote:
>
> I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the plane
behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
I have to admit that I was never concerned about oil pressure at
start-up until building and maintaining my own plane. In normal
operations - no concerns. Right after an oil change, I like to look at
the pressure gauge. After pulling and remounting the engine (for the
nosewheel SB), I really needed to look at the gauge. A single, stupid
no-oil pressure start would be $$$$$$
>
>
> I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
A simple one battery, single alternator system works fine. Some
built-in backup batteries for critical avionics can do the rest, no
question.
Some people put more robust systems in because they are running
electronic ignition systems. I'm running dual mags.
The dual bus/batt/alternator system (the Z-14 in my case) is very robust
and capable and a bit more challenging to design and install. But it is
simple to use and pretty much immune to unexpected or non-standard
operations. My experiences flying IFR in my old Maule drove a lot of
how I wanted the '10 to operate. The complexity actually makes it
simpler to operate and more reliable.
The main thing I was after was the ability to run the panel as needed
before the start without concern for the subsequent engine start.
That's SOP for me.
But I've had a couple of experiences where sitting on the ground with
the engine off and with the panel fired up was more than desirable -
and knowing that I can still fire up the engine and go was a big deal.
For example, post Katrina KNEW when there were no Nexrad terminals
available in the temporary FBO building - waiting in the plane, in the
rain, watching Nexrad and waiting for a break in the line of cells was
the only way I could get out.
Or sitting at Oshkosh waiting for the runway to open after an incident -
run the engine for an hour+ and you will probably have to pull a plug or
two. Shut down, watch the weather and listen to the radio ready to
depart ASAP.
Or sitting at a uncontrolled airport waiting for in IFR clearance for a
departure into IMC - sometimes that wait can go on for a long time if
there are incoming planes, best to shut down and monitor. Or sitting at
a KEWR or KHPN when things are backed up and the airliners are being
shown the penalty box (usually you just keep the engine running in these
cases).
I'm getting ready for my 2nd trip to the out islands of the Bahamas.
Lose an alternator or have a cell short and you are stuck... nothing
that $$$$ and days won't fix. I'd probably fly it out.
The 2nd battery can be the poor pilot's APU. Nice, but certainly not
required.
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
It's really easy and simple to wire in an indicator light that will illumin
ate if the starter is stuck on. There are examples out there of wiring diag
rams and I'm using one of them.
> From: flysrv10@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: PC680 vs PC925
> Date: Wed=2C 25 Feb 2015 13:12:09 -0500
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Phil=2C I am assuming that the Cessna had the engine information availabl
e at start up and guessing that it still did not help you prevent the melt
down. Yes=2C there are times that malfunction happens at the worst time but
is it worth all the complexities to prevent a rare event. In my many yes a
nd hrs of flying=2C I never witnessed one on my plane and others.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 25=2C 2015=2C at 12:25 PM=2C Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Operating a dual dual system is really easy. There's very little that n
eeds to be learned beyond throwing a switch. It's good to know the system
=2C but it's really not a burden. The complexity is really a matter of un
derstanding the wiring. That's the part that most people get intimidated b
y.
> >
> > As far as EIS=2C we've always had oil pressure monitoring from the seco
nd he engine started it was just performed via an analog gauge. I have se
en Lycoming's that failed to produce oil pressure (or enough pressure to ge
t in the green) after engine start. That's why the gauge is there and ever
y engine manual and pre-flight checklist says to start the engine=2C set th
e RPM=2C and confirm oil pressure in the green. Without an operating EIS
=2C you don't have RPM or pressure information.
> >
> > Also=2C I can personally attest to the value of seeing voltage informat
ion in addition to oil/engine information. I melted down a C-152'a panel a
nd caused a small fire when I was doing my flight training. The starter be
ndix never disengaged from the flywheel and when I added power to adjust th
e RPM=2C the starter became an unregulated generator. It dumped unregulat
ed high voltages back into the electrical system smoking some equipment=2C
lots of wires=2C and causing fire damage behind the panel. It was a terrib
le experience.
> >
> > If I had voltage information from the start=2C I would have been alerte
d that there was higher than normal voltage on the buss and I would have kn
own to shut it down and investigate more.
> >
> > So there is value in having that information available. In that casset
te would have saved the FBO some $$ and kept their plane in service. For
me=2C it was just a lesson learned to check those voltages (with the alt of
f) while checking oil pressures after engine start.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Feb 25=2C 2015=2C at 10:51 AM=2C Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrot
e:
> >>
> >>
> >> I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If t
he plane behaved when it was shut down=2C why would it not at start up?
> >>
> >> I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
> >>
> >> Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienc
ed that I have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events
.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Do not archive.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Feb 25=2C 2015=2C at 3:03 AM=2C Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine mo
nitor being up on start?
> >>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes a
live I think with 25 or 30 psi=2C that linked
> >>> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes u
p and it is a very cheap (and the only)
> >>> backup for my EMS.
> >>>
> >>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on sta
rt up.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers Werner
> >>>
> >>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19=2C nukeflyboy wrote:
> >>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reb
oots are a PITA.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
I don't know what other EFIS brands are doing, but Dynon uses one
Lithium rechargeable per screen, and the software carefully manages the
recharge. It is not possible to recharge any other way than being
installed and screen on.
As for the airframe ground return, every Cessna and Piper and Mooney use
airframe for ground return. On my Mooney it is just like the RV-10, with
battery behind baggage compartment, and I have one of those wimpy Skytec
flyweight starters that draws well over 200 amps to crank my 200 hp
Lycoming. Works fine as long as all connections are clean and tight. #2
positive wire, and airframe ground. The only arena that you do NOT want
to use airframe for ground is the electronics. I probably will add a
ground strap from engine mount to firewall, as I do not like Van's
design of using the engine mount itself as primary ground path.
On 2/25/2015 11:28 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Like I said, a small, sealed Gel Cell battery as a backup will fix
> those 'brownouts'.
> I also see starting problems stemming from the use of the airframe as
> a ground return for the battery. I ran a #2 cable to the engine for a
> ground.
> Linn ..... mounting wheel pants
>
> On 2/25/2015 10:13 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> The problem during start is NOT transient spikes, especially of
>> higher voltage. The problem is LOW voltage from the starter current
>> draw.
>> Most avionics today are rated for 8 - 32v because they have their own
>> power supply controlling voltage to what the individual circuit
>> boards need.
>> 1960s avionics had first generation transistors and ICs that were
>> very sensitive to low voltage and were easily fried by same. But the
>> industry ASSUMED that there were high voltage spikes, so implemented
>> avionics master switches. It solved the problem, without ever
>> determining what the real failure mode was.
>>
>> On 2/25/2015 7:57 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>>
>>> You have a point, but the starting transient problem pretty much
>>> goes away when you add the reverse current diode across the master
>>> and start contactor coils.
>>> Also, modern electronics (should) have switching power supplies
>>> which are fairly immune to those reverse-current spikes.
>>> I put dual MGL Odyssey panels in my RV-10 (not flying yet) panel and
>>> each one has it's own backup battery ...... a sealed battery for
>>> that goes into exit lights.
>>>
>>> There isn't that much current draw for the panels themselves.
>>>
>>> Having said all that, I wouldn't want to risk a Garmin repair cost
>>> either!!
>>> Linn ..... mounting wheel pants
>>>
>>> On 2/25/2015 9:24 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>>> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>> Yep - that is what I do. The panel comes up after engine start.
>>>> While
>>>> Dynon assured me the SkyView system is not at risk for engine start
>>>> voltage
>>>> transients, Garmin provided no such guarantee. The last damn thing
>>>> I want
>>>> is to have to engage Garmin again to fix the GTN-650. In any case,
>>>> why
>>>> expose these high price electronics to such transients if not needed?
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
>>>> Schneider
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:04 AM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: PC680 vs PC925
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine
>>>> monitor
>>>> being up on start?
>>>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes
>>>> alive I
>>>> think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked to a LED shows me immediately
>>>> on start
>>>> up if the oil pressure comes up and it is a very cheap (and the
>>>> only) backup
>>>> for my EMS.
>>>>
>>>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on
>>>> start up.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Werner
>>>>
>>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so
>>>>> reboots
>>>> are a PITA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
Wouldn't have happened if Cessna made a better choice for primer paint. 8^))
(asbestos suit on and ducking)
On 2/25/2015 11:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> It did and I didn't look to confirm it. That's why I said an EIS would have
prevented it because it would have flagged and over voltage annunciation and chimed
my headset. It wouldn't have been missed with a running EIS.
>
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:12 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Phil, I am assuming that the Cessna had the engine information available at
start up and guessing that it still did not help you prevent the melt down. Yes,
there are times that malfunction happens at the worst time but is it worth
all the complexities to prevent a rare event. In my many yes and hrs of flying,
I never witnessed one on my plane and others.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Operating a dual dual system is really easy. There's very little that needs
to be learned beyond throwing a switch. It's good to know the system, but it's
really not a burden. The complexity is really a matter of understanding
the wiring. That's the part that most people get intimidated by.
>>>
>>> As far as EIS, we've always had oil pressure monitoring from the second he
engine started it was just performed via an analog gauge. I have seen Lycoming's
that failed to produce oil pressure (or enough pressure to get in the green)
after engine start. That's why the gauge is there and every engine manual
and pre-flight checklist says to start the engine, set the RPM, and confirm oil
pressure in the green. Without an operating EIS, you don't have RPM or pressure
information.
>>>
>>> Also, I can personally attest to the value of seeing voltage information in
addition to oil/engine information. I melted down a C-152'a panel and caused
a small fire when I was doing my flight training. The starter bendix never disengaged
from the flywheel and when I added power to adjust the RPM, the starter
became an unregulated generator. It dumped unregulated high voltages back
into the electrical system smoking some equipment, lots of wires, and causing
fire damage behind the panel. It was a terrible experience.
>>>
>>> If I had voltage information from the start, I would have been alerted that
there was higher than normal voltage on the buss and I would have known to shut
it down and investigate more.
>>>
>>> So there is value in having that information available. In that cassette would
have saved the FBO some $$ and kept their plane in service. For me, it
was just a lesson learned to check those voltages (with the alt off) while checking
oil pressures after engine start.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the plane
behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
>>>>
>>>> I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
>>>>
>>>> Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienced that
I have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Do not archive.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
being up on start?
>>>>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive
I think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
>>>>> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up and
it is a very cheap (and the only)
>>>>> backup for my EMS.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers Werner
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>>>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots
are a PITA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
I hate the weight and cost of batteries. I went with a ground (piper style) plug
instead of a second battery. Sure made it convenient during the build powered
by a surplus car battery on the hangar floor. In my experience I've never been
dead in the air ever, but been dead on the ground several times. Never in the
-10, but I have had to jump someone else. We are all creatures of past experience
(or reading exploits of others), but IMHO we sometimes way over complicate
things. (Myself included). Sometimes adding more fail safe just creates
more elements to fail. The best alternative to airline level redundancy is to
not get positioned to where you need that level or simply take the airlines if
things are that dicey.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438739#438739
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
Absolutely Kelly?
Clearly a chromate could reduce the risk of a reboot. However an alodine would
do the same thing with easier application but less resistance to abrasion.
Using Alodine and chromate as a combination would keep the electrons flowing well
enough that reboots can be avoided; even in over square operations.
:)
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> Wouldn't have happened if Cessna made a better choice for primer paint. 8^))
> (asbestos suit on and ducking)
>
>> On 2/25/2015 11:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> It did and I didn't look to confirm it. That's why I said an EIS would have
prevented it because it would have flagged and over voltage annunciation and
chimed my headset. It wouldn't have been missed with a running EIS.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:12 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil, I am assuming that the Cessna had the engine information available at
start up and guessing that it still did not help you prevent the melt down. Yes,
there are times that malfunction happens at the worst time but is it worth
all the complexities to prevent a rare event. In my many yes and hrs of flying,
I never witnessed one on my plane and others.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Operating a dual dual system is really easy. There's very little that needs
to be learned beyond throwing a switch. It's good to know the system, but
it's really not a burden. The complexity is really a matter of understanding
the wiring. That's the part that most people get intimidated by.
>>>>
>>>> As far as EIS, we've always had oil pressure monitoring from the second he
engine started it was just performed via an analog gauge. I have seen Lycoming's
that failed to produce oil pressure (or enough pressure to get in the green)
after engine start. That's why the gauge is there and every engine manual
and pre-flight checklist says to start the engine, set the RPM, and confirm
oil pressure in the green. Without an operating EIS, you don't have RPM or pressure
information.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I can personally attest to the value of seeing voltage information in
addition to oil/engine information. I melted down a C-152'a panel and caused
a small fire when I was doing my flight training. The starter bendix never
disengaged from the flywheel and when I added power to adjust the RPM, the starter
became an unregulated generator. It dumped unregulated high voltages back
into the electrical system smoking some equipment, lots of wires, and causing
fire damage behind the panel. It was a terrible experience.
>>>>
>>>> If I had voltage information from the start, I would have been alerted that
there was higher than normal voltage on the buss and I would have known to shut
it down and investigate more.
>>>>
>>>> So there is value in having that information available. In that cassette
would have saved the FBO some $$ and kept their plane in service. For me, it
was just a lesson learned to check those voltages (with the alt off) while checking
oil pressures after engine start.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the
plane behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
>>>>>
>>>>> I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienced
that I have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do not archive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
being up on start?
>>>>>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive
I think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
>>>>>> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up and
it is a very cheap (and the only)
>>>>>> backup for my EMS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start
up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers Werner
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>>>>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots
are a PITA.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: PC680 vs PC925 |
I think battery choice and electrical circuit design are diverse enough
to be like primer wars.
Very few wrong answers, lots of opinions, all which may be correct for
one builder with one primary mission, but not necessarily correct for
the 95% or more with different visions of what is correct for them. At
least the topic put some life into what had become a rather stagnant
bunch of threads.
On 2/25/2015 4:05 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Absolutely Kelly?
>
> Clearly a chromate could reduce the risk of a reboot. However an alodine would
do the same thing with easier application but less resistance to abrasion.
>
> Using Alodine and chromate as a combination would keep the electrons flowing
well enough that reboots can be avoided; even in over square operations.
>
> :)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Wouldn't have happened if Cessna made a better choice for primer paint. 8^))
>> (asbestos suit on and ducking)
>>
>>> On 2/25/2015 11:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>>
>>> It did and I didn't look to confirm it. That's why I said an EIS would have
prevented it because it would have flagged and over voltage annunciation and
chimed my headset. It wouldn't have been missed with a running EIS.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:12 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Phil, I am assuming that the Cessna had the engine information available at
start up and guessing that it still did not help you prevent the melt down.
Yes, there are times that malfunction happens at the worst time but is it worth
all the complexities to prevent a rare event. In my many yes and hrs of flying,
I never witnessed one on my plane and others.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Operating a dual dual system is really easy. There's very little that needs
to be learned beyond throwing a switch. It's good to know the system, but
it's really not a burden. The complexity is really a matter of understanding
the wiring. That's the part that most people get intimidated by.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as EIS, we've always had oil pressure monitoring from the second he
engine started it was just performed via an analog gauge. I have seen Lycoming's
that failed to produce oil pressure (or enough pressure to get in the green)
after engine start. That's why the gauge is there and every engine manual
and pre-flight checklist says to start the engine, set the RPM, and confirm
oil pressure in the green. Without an operating EIS, you don't have RPM or
pressure information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I can personally attest to the value of seeing voltage information
in addition to oil/engine information. I melted down a C-152'a panel and caused
a small fire when I was doing my flight training. The starter bendix never
disengaged from the flywheel and when I added power to adjust the RPM, the starter
became an unregulated generator. It dumped unregulated high voltages back
into the electrical system smoking some equipment, lots of wires, and causing
fire damage behind the panel. It was a terrible experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I had voltage information from the start, I would have been alerted that
there was higher than normal voltage on the buss and I would have known to
shut it down and investigate more.
>>>>>
>>>>> So there is value in having that information available. In that cassette
would have saved the FBO some $$ and kept their plane in service. For me, it
was just a lesson learned to check those voltages (with the alt off) while checking
oil pressures after engine start.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder why everyone is concerned over oil pressure at startup? If the
plane behaved when it was shut down, why would it not at start up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also wonder why everyone is making their system so complicated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't mean to criticize. I am thinking that others have had experienced
that I have not had and perhaps all the efforts are based on past events.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do not archive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wonder why most of the people are so heavily looking at the engine monitor
being up on start?
>>>>>>> On my Glastar I have in // to the EMS a pressure switch which comes alive
I think with 25 or 30 psi, that linked
>>>>>>> to a LED shows me immediately on start up if the oil pressure comes up
and it is a very cheap (and the only)
>>>>>>> backup for my EMS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And then my Dynon D10 EMS does take less then 10 sec to reboot on start
up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers Werner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25.02.2015 04:19, nukeflyboy wrote:
>>>>>>>> ... On engine start you will want to see your engine monitor so reboots
are a PITA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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