Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:03 AM - Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (kearney)
2. 08:22 AM - Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Bob Leffler)
3. 08:32 AM - Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Marcus Cooper)
4. 08:40 AM - LOP Education - APS Seminar (kearney)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (kearney)
6. 09:16 AM - Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Carl Froehlich)
7. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Patrick Thyssen)
8. 09:25 AM - Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Alan Mekler MD)
9. 09:31 AM - Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Bob Turner)
10. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Tim Olson)
11. 09:51 AM - Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (kearney)
12. 09:54 AM - Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (kearney)
13. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Carl Froehlich)
14. 11:43 AM - Re: LOP Education - APS Seminar (Marcus Cooper)
15. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (P Reid)
16. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Roger Standley)
17. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Kelly McMullen)
18. 03:20 PM - Re: LOP Education - APS Seminar (John Cox)
19. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Linn Walters)
20. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (Alan Mekler MD)
21. 05:28 PM - Re: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder (LES KEARNEY)
22. 06:48 PM - Re: LOP Education - APS Seminar (Lenny Iszak)
23. 08:58 PM - New alternate cylinder for Lycomings (Kelly McMullen)
24. 09:16 PM - Blue Sky visors? (Rob Kochman)
25. 09:27 PM - Re: Blue Sky visors? (Tim Olson)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Hi
I have been putting hours on my new engine and in the process have noticed something
that may or may not be odd. While taxing I try to lean the engine to keep
the plugs from fouling. I have noticed that the #1 cylinder goes hot far faster
than the others.
Fr example, when leaning on the ground yesterday cyls #2-6 were +/- 1050 F while
number 1 spiked quickly to 1385F. I simply en-richened somewhat to bring it
down.
I am perplexed as to why CYL # 1 would react tgis way.
In the air I don't see this type of behavior, only on the ground.
Any wisdom from the intelligentsia? Do I even care about this?
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439153#439153
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
What are your cht's? I wouldn't worry about egt temps on the ground.
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 11:00 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> I have been putting hours on my new engine and in the process have noticed something
that may or may not be odd. While taxing I try to lean the engine to keep
the plugs from fouling. I have noticed that the #1 cylinder goes hot far faster
than the others.
>
> Fr example, when leaning on the ground yesterday cyls #2-6 were +/- 1050 F while
number 1 spiked quickly to 1385F. I simply en-richened somewhat to bring it
down.
>
> I am perplexed as to why CYL # 1 would react tgis way.
>
> In the air I don't see this type of behavior, only on the ground.
>
> Any wisdom from the intelligentsia? Do I even care about this?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439153#439153
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Les,
Many people have experienced hotter temps on the front two cylinders due to
the design of the dam in front being too large and after cutting it back the
problem is solved. Seems like more of an issue in the air, but could be impacting
you as well. Might be leaning a bit too much on taxi as well, just a thought.
Might need to go for a slightly larger injector on #1 as well, but your
in-flight numbers would be what really drives that change.
Enjoy your testing!
Marcus
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:00 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> I have been putting hours on my new engine and in the process have noticed something
that may or may not be odd. While taxing I try to lean the engine to keep
the plugs from fouling. I have noticed that the #1 cylinder goes hot far faster
than the others.
>
> Fr example, when leaning on the ground yesterday cyls #2-6 were +/- 1050 F while
number 1 spiked quickly to 1385F. I simply en-richened somewhat to bring it
down.
>
> I am perplexed as to why CYL # 1 would react tgis way.
>
> In the air I don't see this type of behavior, only on the ground.
>
> Any wisdom from the intelligentsia? Do I even care about this?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439153#439153
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | LOP Education - APS Seminar |
Hi
I have heard that the APS Seminar on LOP ops is worthwhile. Has anyone had first
hand experience with their $395 on line course.
I notice that they also have a 3 day live seminar as well. It would seem that a
3 day seminar to learn how to run an engine is a bit excessive. Amy I missing
something here? Is LOP really that difficult to do correctly?
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439158#439158
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Rob / Marcus
Thanks for the note. My CHTs, are fine, including in flight. I used silicon to
seal the baffles and have followed the list advice as to how to keep the front
cyls (#1 & 2) cool.
My issue is strictly to do with taxing. Perhaps I am being too aggressive with
my ground leaning,
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439160#439160
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Yep - same issue with my #3 cylinder.
After balancing the cylinder fuel injectors, all cylinders reach peak EGT
within 0.1 GPH fuel flow (standard cruise conditions, 2350 RPM and MP 23" or
whatever I can get at altitude). On the ground when I lean for taxi (just
enough gas to keep the engine running) all EGTs climb but #3 climbs more.
I talked to Air Flow Performance on this and he asked me to do a high power
lean run to verify the cylinders still peak at about the same fuel flow -
they do. He ask me to do this to eliminate any issue with the spider (e.g.
spring/flow/clog).
Note - CHTs while leaning on the ground really don't change much.
So - if not done already recommend you proceed with the in flight injector
balancing, then take a look at where you are after that. Injectors of
various sizes are available from Air Flow Performance for $21 each. For
reference, the standard injector in a Vans IO-540 is 0.028". For my engine,
this is the injector set up I ended up with (your engine will be different):
#1 (.028) #2 (.029) #3 (.027) #4 (.027) #5 (.029) #6
(.0275)
Before balance I had a 0.8 GPH spread between the cylinders for fuel flow at
peak EGT. Lean of peak operation yielded a very rough engine. Now standard
cruise is 20-30 degrees LOP, 11.5 GPH and CHTs are 30 degrees cooler than
when ROP.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kearney
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 11:00 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder
Hi
I have been putting hours on my new engine and in the process have noticed
something that may or may not be odd. While taxing I try to lean the engine
to keep the plugs from fouling. I have noticed that the #1 cylinder goes hot
far faster than the others.
Fr example, when leaning on the ground yesterday cyls #2-6 were +/- 1050 F
while number 1 spiked quickly to 1385F. I simply en-richened somewhat to
bring it down.
I am perplexed as to why CYL # 1 would react tgis way.
In the air I don't see this type of behavior, only on the ground.
Any wisdom from the intelligentsia? Do I even care about this?
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439153#439153
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Have you checked for intake leak on that cyl. Little leak at idle will show up
as high temp since it'll leaned fuel mixture out and at full power it is small
enough you might not notice it. What's your mp at idle? If it's around 15" -17"
you prob. have a leak.
Just my thoughts and as we know it's not worth much.
Patrick Thyssen
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 10:42 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Rob / Marcus
>
> Thanks for the note. My CHTs, are fine, including in flight. I used silicon to
seal the baffles and have followed the list advice as to how to keep the front
cyls (#1 & 2) cool.
>
> My issue is strictly to do with taxing. Perhaps I am being too aggressive with
my ground leaning,
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439160#439160
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
You might try cleaning that injector or swapping it with the richest injector
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Les,
> Many people have experienced hotter temps on the front two cylinders due to
the design of the dam in front being too large and after cutting it back the
problem is solved. Seems like more of an issue in the air, but could be impacting
you as well. Might be leaning a bit too much on taxi as well, just a thought.
Might need to go for a slightly larger injector on #1 as well, but your
in-flight numbers would be what really drives that change.
>
> Enjoy your testing!
> Marcus
>
>
>> On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:00 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I have been putting hours on my new engine and in the process have noticed something
that may or may not be odd. While taxing I try to lean the engine to
keep the plugs from fouling. I have noticed that the #1 cylinder goes hot far
faster than the others.
>>
>> Fr example, when leaning on the ground yesterday cyls #2-6 were +/- 1050 F while
number 1 spiked quickly to 1385F. I simply en-richened somewhat to bring
it down.
>>
>> I am perplexed as to why CYL # 1 would react tgis way.
>>
>> In the air I don't see this type of behavior, only on the ground.
>>
>> Any wisdom from the intelligentsia? Do I even care about this?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439153#439153
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
check the intake gaskets on #1 for any sign of leaks. Do you see this behavior
in the air at low throttle settings? At low MP there is a bigger differential
between outside air presure and MP making leaks more obvious.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439164#439164
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
One note:
There is no such thing as leaning too aggressively on the ground for taxi. You
SHOULD be leaning it SO FAR that if you try to get more than 1500-1800 RPM the
engine stumbles and shudders and wants to die. That way you cannot possibly
take off without going rich, and you are not leaving extra unburned fuel to foul
the plugs and cylinders.
Tim
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 10:42 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Rob / Marcus
>
> Thanks for the note. My CHTs, are fine, including in flight. I used silicon to
seal the baffles and have followed the list advice as to how to keep the front
cyls (#1 & 2) cool.
>
> My issue is strictly to do with taxing. Perhaps I am being too aggressive with
my ground leaning,
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439160#439160
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Hi Carl
I have done the GAMI test. If I am interpreting the data correctly, my front two
cyls peak at a FF of .5 & .7 GPH sooner than the remaining 4 which all peak
within .1 GPH of each other. I think I'll give AFP a call and discuss.
I was wondering if I should consider GAM injectors but if I can get the same result
from AFP injectors at a fraction of the cost, that would be much, much better.
Cheers
Les
carl.froehlich(at)verizon wrote:
> Yep - same issue with my #3 cylinder.
>
> After balancing the cylinder fuel injectors, all cylinders reach peak EGT
> within 0.1 GPH fuel flow (standard cruise conditions, 2350 RPM and MP 23" or
> whatever I can get at altitude). On the ground when I lean for taxi (just
> enough gas to keep the engine running) all EGTs climb but #3 climbs more.
>
> I talked to Air Flow Performance on this and he asked me to do a high power
> lean run to verify the cylinders still peak at about the same fuel flow -
> they do. He ask me to do this to eliminate any issue with the spider (e.g.
> spring/flow/clog).
>
> Note - CHTs while leaning on the ground really don't change much.
>
> So - if not done already recommend you proceed with the in flight injector
> balancing, then take a look at where you are after that. Injectors of
> various sizes are available from Air Flow Performance for $21 each. For
> reference, the standard injector in a Vans IO-540 is 0.028". For my engine,
> this is the injector set up I ended up with (your engine will be different):
> #1 (.028) #2 (.029) #3 (.027) #4 (.027) #5 (.029) #6
> (.0275)
>
> Before balance I had a 0.8 GPH spread between the cylinders for fuel flow at
> peak EGT. Lean of peak operation yielded a very rough engine. Now standard
> cruise is 20-30 degrees LOP, 11.5 GPH and CHTs are 30 degrees cooler than
> when ROP.
>
> Carl
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439167#439167
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Hi Alan
I should have mentioned that I have done both already with no change. I also plan
to confirm the EGT distance from the valve as well as swap probes t see if
it is a probe variance.
Cheers
Les
amekler wrote:
> You might try cleaning that injector or swapping it with the richest injector
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > On Mar 8, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Les,
> > Many people have experienced hotter temps on the front two cylinders due
to the design of the dam in front being too large and after cutting it back
the problem is solved. Seems like more of an issue in the air, but could be impacting
you as well. Might be leaning a bit too much on taxi as well, just a
thought. Might need to go for a slightly larger injector on #1 as well, but
your in-flight numbers would be what really drives that change.
> >
> > Enjoy your testing!
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:00 PM, kearney wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I have been putting hours on my new engine and in the process have noticed
something that may or may not be odd. While taxing I try to lean the engine
to keep the plugs from fouling. I have noticed that the #1 cylinder goes hot far
faster than the others.
> > >
> > > Fr example, when leaning on the ground yesterday cyls #2-6 were +/- 1050
F while number 1 spiked quickly to 1385F. I simply en-richened somewhat to bring
it down.
> > >
> > > I am perplexed as to why CYL # 1 would react tgis way.
> > >
> > > In the air I don't see this type of behavior, only on the ground.
> > >
> > > Any wisdom from the intelligentsia? Do I even care about this?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439153#439153
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439168#439168
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
If a cylinder peaks early it is not getting enough fuel compared with the
other cylinders. So you can either put a larger nozzle in #1 and #2, or
leave them at 0.028 and put smaller ones in your other cylinders (like
0.027").
If you are striving for around 12 GPH in cruise, then I suspect AFP will
recommend going smaller in cylinders 3, 4, 5 and 6. Keep in mind this is an
iterative process. Change the injectors in the one or two cylinders that
are the most out, do another data run, repeat. It took me three runs. I
have the SkyView system so it's automatic data collection really made this
easy. AFP makes injectors in wide range, typical increment is 0.0005"
While I have no issue with GAMI injectors, I never saw the value in the very
high price when the same result is achievable using $21 AFP nozzles.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kearney
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder
Hi Carl
I have done the GAMI test. If I am interpreting the data correctly, my front
two cyls peak at a FF of .5 & .7 GPH sooner than the remaining 4 which all
peak within .1 GPH of each other. I think I'll give AFP a call and discuss.
I was wondering if I should consider GAM injectors but if I can get the same
result from AFP injectors at a fraction of the cost, that would be much,
much better.
Cheers
Les
carl.froehlich(at)verizon wrote:
> Yep - same issue with my #3 cylinder.
>
> After balancing the cylinder fuel injectors, all cylinders reach peak
> EGT within 0.1 GPH fuel flow (standard cruise conditions, 2350 RPM and
> MP 23" or whatever I can get at altitude). On the ground when I lean
> for taxi (just enough gas to keep the engine running) all EGTs climb but
#3 climbs more.
>
> I talked to Air Flow Performance on this and he asked me to do a high
> power lean run to verify the cylinders still peak at about the same
> fuel flow - they do. He ask me to do this to eliminate any issue with the
spider (e.g.
> spring/flow/clog).
>
> Note - CHTs while leaning on the ground really don't change much.
>
> So - if not done already recommend you proceed with the in flight
> injector balancing, then take a look at where you are after that.
> Injectors of various sizes are available from Air Flow Performance for
> $21 each. For reference, the standard injector in a Vans IO-540 is
> 0.028". For my engine, this is the injector set up I ended up with (your
engine will be different):
> #1 (.028) #2 (.029) #3 (.027) #4 (.027) #5 (.029) #6
> (.0275)
>
> Before balance I had a 0.8 GPH spread between the cylinders for fuel
> flow at peak EGT. Lean of peak operation yielded a very rough engine.
> Now standard cruise is 20-30 degrees LOP, 11.5 GPH and CHTs are 30
> degrees cooler than when ROP.
>
> Carl
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439167#439167
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LOP Education - APS Seminar |
This is purely an opinion, but LOP is not rocket science and there is a wealth
of info on this forum. Id start here and see if you feel comfortable with the
lessons learned before dropping the $395. There are also a number of great articles
by Mike Bush of Flying Magazine that you can probably find on the subject.
Marcus
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:37 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> I have heard that the APS Seminar on LOP ops is worthwhile. Has anyone had first
hand experience with their $395 on line course.
>
> I notice that they also have a 3 day live seminar as well. It would seem that
a 3 day seminar to learn how to run an engine is a bit excessive. Amy I missing
something here? Is LOP really that difficult to do correctly?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439158#439158
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Les
I had the same issues. Thanks to Don McDonald, initially and David Brown (GAMI
instructor) and his knowledge he helped interpret my settings and I was able to
get everything to .3 from richest to leanest.
What I discovered is
You change one injector the others move around as well.
You cut an air dam and the LOP goes out the window.
I always had a hot #6 cyl and my #1 ran second hottest. When I cut down the dam
in front of #1, temps went down across the board. When I got the LOP final set
the temps all run much cooler.
My suggestion is talk to Don and hear his suggestions, probably tell you to get
.0270 or ..0275 for the four and see how everything balances after that change.
It's worth the effort!
Pascal
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 9:54 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Carl
>
> I have done the GAMI test. If I am interpreting the data correctly, my front
two cyls peak at a FF of .5 & .7 GPH sooner than the remaining 4 which all peak
within .1 GPH of each other. I think I'll give AFP a call and discuss.
>
> I was wondering if I should consider GAM injectors but if I can get the same
result from AFP injectors at a fraction of the cost, that would be much, much
better.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> carl.froehlich(at)verizon wrote:
>> Yep - same issue with my #3 cylinder.
>>
>> After balancing the cylinder fuel injectors, all cylinders reach peak EGT
>> within 0.1 GPH fuel flow (standard cruise conditions, 2350 RPM and MP 23" or
>> whatever I can get at altitude). On the ground when I lean for taxi (just
>> enough gas to keep the engine running) all EGTs climb but #3 climbs more.
>>
>> I talked to Air Flow Performance on this and he asked me to do a high power
>> lean run to verify the cylinders still peak at about the same fuel flow -
>> they do. He ask me to do this to eliminate any issue with the spider (e.g.
>> spring/flow/clog).
>>
>> Note - CHTs while leaning on the ground really don't change much.
>>
>> So - if not done already recommend you proceed with the in flight injector
>> balancing, then take a look at where you are after that. Injectors of
>> various sizes are available from Air Flow Performance for $21 each. For
>> reference, the standard injector in a Vans IO-540 is 0.028". For my engine,
>> this is the injector set up I ended up with (your engine will be different):
>> #1 (.028) #2 (.029) #3 (.027) #4 (.027) #5 (.029) #6
>> (.0275)
>>
>> Before balance I had a 0.8 GPH spread between the cylinders for fuel flow at
>> peak EGT. Lean of peak operation yielded a very rough engine. Now standard
>> cruise is 20-30 degrees LOP, 11.5 GPH and CHTs are 30 degrees cooler than
>> when ROP.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> --
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439167#439167
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
I'll go with Patrick on this one. I had high EGT on #4 on an idling brand n
ew factory fresh IO-540! Turned out to be an "out of round" intake manifold
so that the hose was not sealing completely. We found it by spraying with
a light mist bottle while at idle and noticing the EGT change. Once we roun
ded out the manifold with a rounding plug=2C seal was complete and all was
fine.
Roger Standley
N291RV
> From: jump2@sbcglobal.net
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder
> Date: Sun=2C 8 Mar 2015 11:16:17 -0500
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Have you checked for intake leak on that cyl. Little leak at idle will sh
ow up as high temp since it'll leaned fuel mixture out and at full power it
is small enough you might not notice it. What's your mp at idle? If it's a
round 15" -17" you prob. have a leak.
> Just my thoughts and as we know it's not worth much.
> Patrick Thyssen
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 8=2C 2015=2C at 10:42 AM=2C kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Rob / Marcus
> >
> > Thanks for the note. My CHTs=2C are fine=2C including in flight. I used
silicon to seal the baffles and have followed the list advice as to how to
keep the front cyls (#1 & 2) cool.
> >
> > My issue is strictly to do with taxing. Perhaps I am being too aggressi
ve with my ground leaning=2C
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439160#439160
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
I agree with the possibility of small leak as a cause. The other
possibility, but likely to show up at all power settings is a single
spark plug firing intermittently or not at all.
Soap bubbles is one method. Another now being used in auto industry is a
smoke generator that floods the manifold with smoke under slight
pressure and you look for any escaping. Supposed to be more sensitive to
small leaks than soap bubbles.
On 3/8/2015 1:05 PM, Roger Standley wrote:
> I'll go with Patrick on this one. I had high EGT on #4 on an idling
> brand new factory fresh IO-540! Turned out to be an "out of round"
> intake manifold so that the hose was not sealing completely. We found
> it by spraying with a light mist bottle while at idle and noticing the
> EGT change. Once we rounded out the manifold with a rounding plug,
> seal was complete and all was fine.
>
> Roger Standley
> N291RV
>
> > From: jump2@sbcglobal.net
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder
> > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 11:16:17 -0500
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Have you checked for intake leak on that cyl. Little leak at idle
> will show up as high temp since it'll leaned fuel mixture out and at
> full power it is small enough you might not notice it. What's your mp
> at idle? If it's around 15" -17" you prob. have a leak.
> > Just my thoughts and as we know it's not worth much.
> > Patrick Thyssen
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > > On Mar 8, 2015, at 10:42 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Rob / Marcus
> > >
> > > Thanks for the note. My CHTs, are fine, including in flight. I
> used silicon to seal the baffles and have followed the list advice as
> to how to keep the front cyls (#1 & 2) cool.
> > >
> > > My issue is strictly to do with taxing. Perhaps I am being too
> aggressive with my ground leaning,
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439160#439160
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > <=====================
> >======
> >
> >
> >
> *
>
>
> *
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LOP Education - APS Seminar |
The seminar was specifically tailored to "Well Healed" owners of
Continental IO-520 and 550s. They do one heck of a job. Many Beech and
Cirrus owners have found the seminar well worth the value (Time & Money).
LOP theory can be boiled down to effectively injecting each of your
cylinders and judiciously monitoring data stream. Glass cockpit design has
helped immensely.
Knowing PEAK is a requirement. Understanding the Benefit/Risk of ROP and
how far down the curve past PEAK you can run LEAN is the final exam.
Those who are receptive, those who monitor the side haved saved countless
$$ on AVGAS. FADEC is the only alternative to do the same without
Intervention. The Rotax 912 iS is a stunning example over the 912 ULS in
the RV-12.
I valued the material. I believe I understand the Risks and the clear
rewards. I know when not to walk the "Lean of Peak" trot. YMMV. I know
of many a stubborn pilots who swear they would never cross to the other
side. Throwing fuel at the issue is simple. Uncontrolled Detonation is the
focus of the seminar training.
John Cox
On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 8:37 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I have heard that the APS Seminar on LOP ops is worthwhile. Has anyone had
> first hand experience with their $395 on line course.
>
> I notice that they also have a 3 day live seminar as well. It would seem
> that a 3 day seminar to learn how to run an engine is a bit excessive. Amy
> I missing something here? Is LOP really that difficult to do correctly?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439158#439158
>
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Intake leaks can be easier to spot if you take a clean (read that word
again) shop vac and hook it up to blow air into the intake and spray
soapy water over the intake system. You can put rags around the hose to
seal it a little. Much easier to spot bubbles than changes in EGT.
Linn
On 3/8/2015 4:05 PM, Roger Standley wrote:
> I'll go with Patrick on this one. I had high EGT on #4 on an idling
> brand new factory fresh IO-540! Turned out to be an "out of round"
> intake manifold so that the hose was not sealing completely. We found
> it by spraying with a light mist bottle while at idle and noticing the
> EGT change. Once we rounded out the manifold with a rounding plug,
> seal was complete and all was fine.
>
> Roger Standley
> N291RV
>
> > From: jump2@sbcglobal.net
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder
> > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 11:16:17 -0500
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Have you checked for intake leak on that cyl. Little leak at idle
> will show up as high temp since it'll leaned fuel mixture out and at
> full power it is small enough you might not notice it. What's your mp
> at idle? If it's around 15" -17" you prob. have a leak.
> > Just my thoughts and as we know it's not worth much.
> > Patrick Thyssen
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > > On Mar 8, 2015, at 10:42 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Rob / Marcus
> > >
> > > Thanks for the note. My CHTs, are fine, including in flight. I
> used silicon to seal the baffles and have followed the list advice as
> to how to keep the front cyls (#1 & 2) cool.
> > >
> > > My issue is strictly to do with taxing. Perhaps I am being too
> aggressive with my ground leaning,
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439160#439160
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > <=====================
> >======
> >
> >
> >
> *
>
>
> *
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Les,
I also used Don Rivera at AFP after unsuccessfully trying GAMIs. I even
send my Spider back to Mattituck for recalibration.
Don had me start with his injectors.I emailed him the flight data and
after 3 flights with changing injectors have a .3 gallon spread and it
runs fine LOP.
I suggest to go to his web site and collect the flight data. He is great
to work with.
Also helpful is https://www.savvyanalysis.com/ to look at your data.
good luck
Alan
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:51 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Alan
>
> I should have mentioned that I have done both already with no change.
I also plan to confirm the EGT distance from the valve as well as swap
probes t see if it is a probe variance.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> amekler wrote:
>> You might try cleaning that injector or swapping it with the richest
injector
>> Alan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 8, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Les,
>>> Many people have experienced hotter temps on the front two
cylinders due to the design of the dam in front being too large and
after cutting it back the problem is solved. Seems like more of an
issue in the air, but could be impacting you as well. Might be leaning
a bit too much on taxi as well, just a thought. Might need to go for a
slightly larger injector on #1 as well, but your in-flight numbers would
be what really drives that change.
>>>
>>> Enjoy your testing!
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:00 PM, kearney wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I have been putting hours on my new engine and in the process have
noticed something that may or may not be odd. While taxing I try to lean
the engine to keep the plugs from fouling. I have noticed that the #1
cylinder goes hot far faster than the others.
>>>>
>>>> Fr example, when leaning on the ground yesterday cyls #2-6 were +/-
1050 F while number 1 spiked quickly to 1385F. I simply en-richened
somewhat to bring it down.
>>>>
>>>> I am perplexed as to why CYL # 1 would react tgis way.
>>>>
>>>> In the air I don't see this type of behavior, only on the ground.
>>>>
>>>> Any wisdom from the intelligentsia? Do I even care about this?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Les
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439153#439153
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439168#439168
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder |
Hi Alan
I have AFP injectors / spider as well. I will give them a call after I confirm
that I don't have an induction leak.I suspect that given that cyl#1 peaks first
in flight, it just may be a flow issue but I need to confirm.
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Mekler MD" <amekler@metrocast.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2015 5:14:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hot EGT on # 1 Cylinder
Les,
I also used Don Rivera at AFP after unsuccessfully trying GAMIs. I even send my
Spider back to Mattituck for recalibration.
Don had me start with his injectors.I emailed him the flight data and after 3 flights
with changing injectors have a .3 gallon spread and it runs fine LOP.
I suggest to go to his web site and collect the flight data. He is great to work
with.
Also helpful is https://www . savvyanalysis .com/ to look at your data.
good luck
Alan
On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:51 PM, kearney < kearney@shaw.ca > wrote:
Hi Alan
I should have mentioned that I have done both already with no change. I also plan
to confirm the EGT distance from the valve as well as swap probes t see if
it is a probe variance.
Cheers
Les
amekler wrote:
<blockquote>
You might try cleaning that injector or swapping it with the richest injector
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
<blockquote>
On Mar 8, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
Les,
Many people have experienced hotter temps on the front two cylinders due to the
design of the dam in front being too large and after cutting it back the problem
is solved. Seems like more of an issue in the air, but could be impacting
you as well. Might be leaning a bit too much on taxi as well, just a thought.
Might need to go for a slightly larger injector on #1 as well, but your in-flight
numbers would be what really drives that change.
Enjoy your testing!
Marcus
<blockquote>
On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:00 PM, kearney wrote:
Hi
I have been putting hours on my new engine and in the process have noticed something
that may or may not be odd. While taxing I try to lean the engine to keep
the plugs from fouling. I have noticed that the #1 cylinder goes hot far faster
than the others.
Fr example, when leaning on the ground yesterday cyls #2-6 were +/- 1050 F while
number 1 spiked quickly to 1385F. I simply en-richened somewhat to bring it
down.
I am perplexed as to why CYL # 1 would react tgis way.
In the air I don't see this type of behavior, only on the ground.
Any wisdom from the intelligentsia? Do I even care about this?
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439153#439153
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439168#439168
</blockquote>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LOP Education - APS Seminar |
Les,
I did the online course and then a few months later the live seminar. I think at
least the online course should be mandatory for anyone flying behind these engines.
Some of the material is geared toward turbocharged engines simply because the margin
of error is a lot less on those. Our engines are pretty indestructible in
comparison.
There's so much misinformation floating around about these engines, and these guys
show you the data, real time, on a fully instrumented engine. You can watch
the same thing on the online course videos, but it's way better to watch it
live in the test cell, and tell George to do this or that to the engine and watch
the pressure traces.
These guys have spent countless hours trying to detonate and do all kinds of bad
things to a bunch of different engines in their test cell. By the end of the
seminar your head will spin from all of the information, but you'll get a much
better understanding of your engine and a clear picture of how to manage the
red knob which so many people are afraid of.
I attended a Lycoming forum a couple of years ago at OSH, where they pretty much
said if you run your engine LOP you'll kill it, sooner than later. Bullshit
legal CYA.
At APS you get the real data, without myths or biases or operating manuals written
by lawyers.
They do give you a manual: "The basic theory of operation of the Turbo Compound
Engine", written in 1957. Contains the same or very similar pressure traces that
are drawn on George's high tech screens... back then engines still liked running
lean of peak... ;)
The online course is surprisingly well put together and definitely worth the money.
They have quizzes at the end of each chapter to verify that you really understood
the material. They have a few in-flight videos and a couple of test cell
videos. I felt that I learned a lot from the online course, but the live seminar
gave me an even better understanding of my engine.
One other thing, these guys have done the live event for many years and it shows
in its organization. Everything went smoothly from start to finish. It was also
very entertaining.
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439183#439183
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | New alternate cylinder for Lycomings |
6.5 lbs lighter, able to run auto gas on 8.7 to 1 compression, and supposed
to make about 5-7 hp more than regular Lyc cylinder.
http://www.ace-performance.com/ under aviation solutions.
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Blue Sky visors? |
Do people like the Blue Sky visors? Any complaints? I haven't seen much
discussion of them here in the last 5+ years. Looks like Spruce is selling
them now:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/blueskysunvisors.php
Thanks..
-Rob
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Blue Sky visors? |
I like mine. Have had them a long time now.
Cost effective.
Tim
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 11:13 PM, Rob Kochman <rv10rob@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do people like the Blue Sky visors? Any complaints? I haven't seen much d
iscussion of them here in the last 5+ years. Looks like Spruce is selling t
hem now:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/blueskysunvisors.php
>
> Thanks..
>
> -Rob
>
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
> Woodinville, WA
> http://kochman.net/N819K
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|