---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/16/15: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:05 AM - Re: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? (Tim Olson) 2. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? (Kelly McMullen) 3. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? (Jesse Saint) 4. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? (Tim Olson) 5. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? (Jesse Saint) 6. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist (Rob Kochman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:32 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? If this box is anything like their ADS600B, and I'm told it is almost identical if not identical, other than it doesn't have an ARINC module, then I understand why they can say it's 2020 ready. The ADS600B uses a modular GPS, and you can either buy it with a non-certified GPS module (ADS600B) or buy a certified module for it (ADS600BG). This means that upgrading the GPS itself is just a snap in change. The certified module isn't even that expensive for those who want it now. The certified module is a TSO c145 module. If the module that it comes with is not that certified module, then I'm sure the reason they call it "ready" is that it takes just a module change and you can meet the rule. At the price they're selling it at, it's still a bargain compared to most any other option for us EAB's. Personally, I don't care if the certified world is gnashing their teeth over it. It's not OUR fault that they don't have the motivation to build their own plane. Also, being an electronic device, I'm sure we'll see all units from most manufacturers get cheaper and cheaper over time, just as EFIS's have. Those who want to sell, will have to compete. NavWorX just pushed out their cheaper option first. At the price we can get it for now, there's no reason not to. And I say all this after spending more than DOUBLE the price of this new 600EXP, when I bought my ADS600B for the RV-14 project less than a month before they released this new model. Coulda, shoulda, woulda... But hey, I'll be equipped. Tim On 3/15/2015 2:31 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > > > AirMike wrote: >> My intuition tells me that this unit resides in the same squishy >> area as IFR navigation equipment for EAB aircraft, and my guess is >> that if you put one of these in your EAB aircraft, that there will >> be no squealing from the powers that be. After all we are not >> exactly (for the most part) flying high performance turbine >> equipment. Modern GPS - even in my I-Pad updates way faster than >> the FAA's antiquated mode C - transponder system. Kudos to these >> guys for getting this on the shelf for us to meet the 2020 >> deadline. :D > > You'll get no argument from me that the specs are way too stringent. > But remember the FAA doesn't care about us - they do care about an > airliner hitting us. So IMHO there will be no relaxation on the > specs.(IF they did relax them, now, the companies that already are in > the market with TSO'd boxes would cry foul - and they'd have a > point). And btw, there's nothing "squishy" about IFR navigation > equipment. Your operating limitations require you to follow the same > 91.205 rules as the normally certified aircraft. I applaud Navworks > for trying to bring the cost down, and in fact this is a very > competitive price even without a position source. But I won't believe > "ready for 2020" until I see someone say in writing that the built in > gps meets 91.227. > > -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:54 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? Yeah, after I spent more than that for my Dynon ADS-B In unit on top of 3 times that for Dynon/Trig 1090ES ADS-B out, but I am all set to take the RV up into the flight levels or out of the country, yada yada yada. I'm just happy for the guys that can barely manage a used RV-4 or other low cost plane, that they won't have to have 25% of the value of the plane in a transponder/GPS combo. On 3/16/2015 7:02 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > And I say all this after spending more than DOUBLE > the price of this new 600EXP, when I bought my ADS600B > for the RV-14 project less than a month before they > released this new model. Coulda, shoulda, woulda... > But hey, I'll be equipped. > Tim > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:20 AM PST US From: Jesse Saint Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? I'm with Tim on this. The guts of the EXP is the same as their certified box, but the antenna connectors are different and it's a DB9 instead of a DB37, and you no longer have to hook up to a serial port to program it. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. 352-427-0285 jesse@saintaviation.com Sent from my iPad > On Mar 16, 2015, at 10:02 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > > If this box is anything like their ADS600B, and I'm told it > is almost identical if not identical, other than it doesn't > have an ARINC module, then I understand why they can say > it's 2020 ready. The ADS600B uses a modular GPS, > and you can either buy it with a non-certified GPS module > (ADS600B) or buy a certified module for it (ADS600BG). > This means that upgrading the GPS itself is just a snap > in change. The certified module isn't even that expensive > for those who want it now. The certified module is a TSO c145 > module. > > If the module that it comes with is not that certified > module, then I'm sure the reason they call it "ready" is > that it takes just a module change and you can meet > the rule. At the price they're selling it at, it's > still a bargain compared to most any other option for > us EAB's. > > Personally, I don't care if the certified world > is gnashing their teeth over it. It's not OUR fault > that they don't have the motivation to build their > own plane. Also, being an electronic device, I'm sure > we'll see all units from most manufacturers get cheaper > and cheaper over time, just as EFIS's have. Those who > want to sell, will have to compete. NavWorX just > pushed out their cheaper option first. At the price > we can get it for now, there's no reason not to. > And I say all this after spending more than DOUBLE > the price of this new 600EXP, when I bought my ADS600B > for the RV-14 project less than a month before they > released this new model. Coulda, shoulda, woulda... > But hey, I'll be equipped. > Tim > > > > >> On 3/15/2015 2:31 PM, Bob Turner wrote: >> >> >> >> AirMike wrote: >>> My intuition tells me that this unit resides in the same squishy >>> area as IFR navigation equipment for EAB aircraft, and my guess is >>> that if you put one of these in your EAB aircraft, that there will >>> be no squealing from the powers that be. After all we are not >>> exactly (for the most part) flying high performance turbine >>> equipment. Modern GPS - even in my I-Pad updates way faster than >>> the FAA's antiquated mode C - transponder system. Kudos to these >>> guys for getting this on the shelf for us to meet the 2020 >>> deadline. :D >> >> You'll get no argument from me that the specs are way too stringent. >> But remember the FAA doesn't care about us - they do care about an >> airliner hitting us. So IMHO there will be no relaxation on the >> specs.(IF they did relax them, now, the companies that already are in >> the market with TSO'd boxes would cry foul - and they'd have a >> point). And btw, there's nothing "squishy" about IFR navigation >> equipment. Your operating limitations require you to follow the same >> 91.205 rules as the normally certified aircraft. I applaud Navworks >> for trying to bring the cost down, and in fact this is a very >> competitive price even without a position source. But I won't believe >> "ready for 2020" until I see someone say in writing that the built in >> gps meets 91.227. >> >> -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:51 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? Does it get preprogrammed by them at the factory then? I wonder what pins they use on that DB9... Assuming Power Ground Serial + out Serial Gnd Altitude Encoder I wonder if there is still ... Transponder Control Serial + Transponder control serial GND That leaves only 2 more pins. Maybe Transponder suppression and one more? What connector did they use on the antenna then, SMA? Thanks Jesse, for the info. I knew the insides were the same but didn't know about the externals. Tim On 3/16/2015 9:51 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: > > I'm with Tim on this. The guts of the EXP is the same as their certified box, but the antenna connectors are different and it's a DB9 instead of a DB37, and you no longer have to hook up to a serial port to program it. > > Jesse ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Has Low cost ADS-B arrived? From: Jesse Saint There are still the serial in and out for the communication with the EFIS. There is still the transponder control and ikarus alt. Only one power and ground wire. It gets programmed via Wifi with any number of ipad or other tablet console tool, is the understanding I got from Bill. The antenna is SMA, which I found out after I crimped a set of stinking TNC connectors for the future install. I hate those things. They charge as if they are solid gold. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 > On Mar 16, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > > Does it get preprogrammed by them at the factory then? > I wonder what pins they use on that DB9... > > Assuming > > Power > Ground > Serial + out > Serial Gnd > Altitude Encoder > > I wonder if there is still ... > Transponder Control Serial + > Transponder control serial GND > > That leaves only 2 more pins. > Maybe Transponder suppression and one more? > > > What connector did they use on the antenna then, SMA? > > Thanks Jesse, for the info. I knew the insides were the same but > didn't know about the externals. > Tim > > > > On 3/16/2015 9:51 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: >> >> I'm with Tim on this. The guts of the EXP is the same as their certified box, but the antenna connectors are different and it's a DB9 instead of a DB37, and you no longer have to hook up to a serial port to program it. >> >> Jesse > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist From: Rob Kochman Tim has it right--there's no need to mess around with putting stuff on the HS. Put a bunch of heavy stuff in the baggage compartment, and the tail gets really light. On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Be very careful with bags of salt. They are typically abused in their > delivery to retail store shelves, and frequently have small tears that let > salt out. Extremely corrosive to your aircraft. It doesn't take but a bit > of powder out of one of those bags. And they are heavy enough it doesn't > take much abrasion to put a small, barely noticeable hole in a bag. I've > seen corrosion in car trunks and pickup beds from that. > I agree with Tim, either put it all in baggage compartment, or put some > plywood or similar on stabilizer to spread load and prevent damage there. > Sand bags or collapsible water jugs are preferable. > > On 3/15/2015 11:30 AM, Craig Rufi wrote: > >> We are on the same page! >> Thanks, >> Craig Rufi >> >> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:21 AM, David Saylor > > wrote: >> >> Kind of. I mean make sure you have contact with the spars and as >> many ribs as possible. And yes, as close to the root as you can. --D >> >> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Craig Rufi > > wrote: >> >> Thanks Dave, >> When you say,"pick up the structure of the stabilizer" I'm >> taking that to mean close to the vertical stabilizer, and >> balanced on both sides. There the ribs are closer together and >> a stronger surface for the bags to rest on. >> >> My pool also needs a little more salt too:-)) >> >> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:57 AM, David Saylor >> > wrote: >> >> I use bags of water softener salt to weight the tail and >> other things. The plastic 40# bags are tough, and >> convenient. Find the brand with built in handles. Use >> some care to make sure they don't slide off when the angle >> changes, and of course make sure they pick up the >> structure of the stab. You'll be fine. >> >> They belt in to the seats pretty well too when you do >> gross weight testing. We would duct tape several together >> to make them body-size. Then, make REALLY sure it's well >> secured so that Sal doesn't slump forward on the controls... >> >> --Dave >> >> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Craig Rufi >> > wrote: >> >> Hi All' >> I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding >> about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was >> thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical >> stabilizer. >> Thoughts? >> I'm getting closer to the finish line! >> >> Craig Rufi >> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner >> > > wrote: >> >> > > >> >> >> I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!) >> If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, >> spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is >> very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over >> the square root of two) of the force is vertical, >> and an equal amount is horizontal. >> But if you're talking about pulling out the >> threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal >> force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, >> "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper >> into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus >> have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize >> this, imagine that the tail had been tapped >> oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely >> grabbed. >> >> -------- >> Bob Turner >> RV-10 QB >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/ >> viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> -List" >> target="_blank">http://www. >> matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> >> * >> > > -- Rob Kochman RV-10 Flying since March 2011 Woodinville, WA http://kochman.net/N819K ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.