---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/24/15: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (johngoodman) 2. 07:27 AM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Carl Froehlich) 3. 11:36 AM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Larry Rosen) 4. 12:13 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Bob Turner) 5. 12:54 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Carl Froehlich) 6. 01:20 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Deems Davis) 7. 01:21 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Deems Davis) 8. 02:40 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Larry Rosen) 9. 02:56 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Carl Froehlich) 10. 03:29 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (Deems Davis) 11. 05:04 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (AirMike) 12. 06:37 PM - Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing (dmaib@me.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:16 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing From: "johngoodman" Larry, I used a 1.75 inch scat tube from Aircraft Spruce - it works fine. John -------- #40572 Phase One complete in 2011 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439823#439823 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:22 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing Larry, I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with homebrew reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5". I did this as it made routing the hose much easier. Assuming you are doing the stock Vetterman exhaust there is an amazing amount of heat available for the cabin. Considering this, I installed a 3/4" diameter restrictor in the rear baffle heat muff hose connectors to reduce the amount of air going to the heat muff. As I would never use that much heat, I figured that the other 90% of flying where the heat is off I'd rather have that air cooling the engine instead of bypassing it. Now on the coldest days I have the rear heat half open and the front heat cracked open or shut. One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as problematic. On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs being directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump. My fix for this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat boxes (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the top of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes. The result is when the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down toward the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the firewall is reduced. This is the Koolmat product: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602 I'm happy with how it all worked out. Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 10:33 PM Subject: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing After a very long break, I have started working on building my RV10 again. I am working on fixing some of the things I don't like about how that came out. One is how the rear heat scat tube is routed around my fuel valve and over the wing spar. I have two possible solutions. One is to reduce to a 1 or 1-1/2" tube. Those that fly in the cold north, do you think you would still get enough heat to the back passengers with a 1" tube? The second is to construct a fiberglass duct to route around the problem areas. Is the hot air from the heater valve hot enough to cause problems with a duct constructed of glass and west epoxy? Larry RV10 #40356 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:17 AM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing > > I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with homebrew > reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5". I did this > as it made routing the hose much easier. It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat. I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations It will depend if I want to spend time or money. > One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as > problematic. On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs being > directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump. My fix for > this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat boxes > (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the top > of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes. The result is when > the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down toward > the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the > firewall is reduced. This is the Koolmat product: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602 > I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed. Are you using the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine. In this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf. Larry ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:44 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing From: "Bob Turner" I visualize this as the cool mat being in an inverted U shape. One side against the firewall for insulation; the other hanging down a few inches from the firewall to direct the hot air down. I did half this: put silicon baffle material under the box to insulate it from the firewall. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439835#439835 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:01 PM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing Larry, I looked for a photo but only found one when the fuselage was upside down (attached). So if you can visualize, the flap that is hanging down would hang over the top of the boxes and scat hoses when upright. You can see the round notches cut to lay over the scat hoses. The result is the dumped hot air from the cabin heat boxes is directed down toward the cowl exhaust area. Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:33 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing > > I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with > homebrew reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and > 1.5". I did this as it made routing the hose much easier. It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat. I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations It will depend if I want to spend time or money. > One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as > problematic. On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs > being directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump. > My fix for this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall > cabin heat boxes (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the > mat extends over the top of the boxes and then down over the front of > the boxes. The result is when the cabin heat valves are shut, the > dumped hot air is directed down toward the bottom of the cowl, and the > conductive heat from the boxes to the firewall is reduced. This is the Koolmat product: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261 > 602 > I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed. Are you using the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine. In this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf. Larry ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing From: Deems Davis http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC06932.html On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > Larry, > > I looked for a photo but only found one when the fuselage was upside down > (attached). So if you can visualize, the flap that is hanging down would > hang over the top of the boxes and scat hoses when upright. You can see > the > round notches cut to lay over the scat hoses. The result is the dumped hot > air from the cabin heat boxes is directed down toward the cowl exhaust > area. > > Carl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:33 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing > > > > > > > I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with > > homebrew reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and > > 1.5". I did this as it made routing the hose much easier. > It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat. > > I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations > It will depend if I > want to spend time or money. > > > One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as > > problematic. On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs > > being directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump. > > My fix for this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall > > cabin heat boxes (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the > > mat extends over the top of the boxes and then down over the front of > > the boxes. The result is when the cabin heat valves are shut, the > > dumped hot air is directed down toward the bottom of the cowl, and the > > conductive heat from the boxes to the firewall is reduced. This is the > Koolmat product: > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261 > > 602 > > > I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed. Are you using the > koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine. > In this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf. > > Larry > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing From: Deems Davis http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html click forward for a few more pics On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Larry Rosen wrote: > > >> I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with homebrew >> reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5". I did >> this >> as it made routing the hose much easier. >> > It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat. > > I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations < > http://www.planeinnovations.com/scat-adapters.html> It will depend if I > want to spend time or money. > > One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as >> problematic. On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs being >> directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump. My fix >> for >> this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat >> boxes >> (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the >> top >> of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes. The result is >> when >> the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down toward >> the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the >> firewall is reduced. This is the Koolmat product: >> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602 >> >> I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed. Are you using > the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine. In > this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf. > > Larry > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:18 PM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing Deems, 1" Scat tubing? I take it, no issues with the fiberglass in the heater line. Larry On 3/24/2015 4:18 PM, Deems Davis wrote: > http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html > > click forward for a few more pics > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Larry Rosen > wrote: > > > > > > I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, > with homebrew > reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and > 1.5". I did this > as it made routing the hose much easier. > > It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat. > > I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations > It will > depend if I want to spend time or money. > > One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve > location as > problematic. On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat > muffs being > directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel > pump. My fix for > this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall > cabin heat boxes > (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends > over the top > of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes. The > result is when > the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed > down toward > the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes > to the > firewall is reduced. This is the Koolmat product: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602 > > I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed. Are you > using the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards > the engine. In this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and > not insulating the fwf. > > Larry > > =================================== > -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > =================================== > FORUMS - > _blank">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:48 PM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing My first 2=9D-1.5=9D scat reducer was made of fiberglass. The first time I turned on the rear heat it did off gas. I replaced it with one made of aluminum. Carl From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 5:37 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing Deems, 1" Scat tubing? I take it, no issues with the fiberglass in the heater line. Larry On 3/24/2015 4:18 PM, Deems Davis wrote: http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html click forward for a few more pics On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Larry Rosen wrote: I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with homebrew reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5". I did this as it made routing the hose much easier. It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat. I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations It will depend if I want to spend time or money. One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as problematic. On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs being directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump. My fix for this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat boxes (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the top of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes. The result is when the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down toward the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the firewall is reduced. This is the Koolmat product: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=2616 02 I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed. Are you using the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine. In this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf. Larry -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List FORUMS - _blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing From: Deems Davis The 1" was something I had lying around the hangar. No issues with the fiberglass and the heat.I made the reducers by carving some styrofoam and wraping it with duct/mylar tape and then glassing over it. On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Larry Rosen wrote: > Deems, > 1" Scat tubing? > I take it, no issues with the fiberglass in the heater line. > > Larry > > On 3/24/2015 4:18 PM, Deems Davis wrote: > > http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html > > click forward for a few more pics > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Larry Rosen wrote: > >> >> >> >>> I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with >>> homebrew >>> reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5". I did >>> this >>> as it made routing the hose much easier. >>> >> It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat. >> >> I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations < >> http://www.planeinnovations.com/scat-adapters.html> It will depend if I >> want to spend time or money. >> >> One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as >>> problematic. On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs >>> being >>> directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump. My fix >>> for >>> this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat >>> boxes >>> (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the >>> top >>> of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes. The result is >>> when >>> the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down >>> toward >>> the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the >>> firewall is reduced. This is the Koolmat product: >>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602 >>> >>> I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed. Are you using >> the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine. In >> this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf. >> >> Larry >> >> =================================== >> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> =================================== >> FORUMS - >> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> =================================== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> =================================== >> >> >> >> > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:06 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing From: "AirMike" I just followed the standard plans and crushed the large scat tube to fit the space. After 5 years no problems with chafe or perforation. It is ugly, but it works. Deems' installation is obviously 1st class, but a bit of extra work. I would say two far more important issues are : 1) the cheap aluminum air distribution boxes on the firewall supplied by Vans. I suggest using only the excellent (after market) fire resistant stainless steel steel boxes. Could save your life. 2) Also, if I were building again, I would improvise easier access to the fuel system (in the tunnel) - pump and filter - for easy servicing. Servicing the fuel filter is a real pain. Top and side access portals would facilitate servicing. -------- See you OSH '15 Q/B - flying 5 yrs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439849#439849 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:08 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing From: "dmaib@me.com" AirMike wrote: > I just followed the standard plans and crushed the large scat tube to fit the space. After 5 years no problems with chafe or perforation. It is ugly, but it works. Deems' installation is obviously 1st class, but a bit of extra work. > > I would say two far more important issues are : 1) the cheap aluminum air distribution boxes on the firewall supplied by Vans. I suggest using only the excellent (after market) fire resistant stainless steel steel boxes. Could save your life. 2) Also, if I were building again, I would improvise easier access to the fuel system (in the tunnel) - pump and filter - for easy servicing. Servicing the fuel filter is a real pain. Top and side access portals would facilitate servicing. I did the same thing with the large scat and it works fine. Coming up on 7 years with no issues, but as Mike says, it is ugly. However, I am the only one that looks at it! ^_^ I agree with Mike's comments about the aluminum heat distribution box and tunnel access. I even thought about making a belly access panel, ala Piper, but that would introduce some other engineering issues I imagine. You will thank yourself later on if you make access to the fuel filter as easy as possible. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 New Smyrna Beach, FL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439852#439852 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.