Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:58 AM - Re: How long does your annual take? (Werner Schneider)
2. 07:24 AM - Re: Filter Air Box (Lenny Iszak)
3. 08:22 AM - Re: How long does your annual take? (Ben Westfall)
4. 08:45 AM - Re: Filter Air Box (Bill Watson)
5. 01:46 PM - Re: Filter Air Box (Bill Watson)
6. 07:23 PM - EFII - the jury is coming in (Jesse Saint)
7. 07:55 PM - Re: EFII - the jury is coming in (Danny Riggs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: How long does your annual take? |
Jesse, seems you're using your kids like others swap wrenches from one
job to the other :)
Cheers Werner
do not archive
On 05.05.2015 00:21, Jesse Saint wrote:
> I put my 12-year-old to work one day per week already. He's perfect for
> opening panels and for crawling in the tailcones for inspection,
> lubrication and fabrication. I've even used my 8-year-old a few times.
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Filter Air Box |
I built a tight fiberglass lip around the bottom that covers the bottom rubber
part, around a 1/4 inch tall, so the filter doesn't move around much. When the
filter is new it fits perfectly, and after about 50 hours it shrinks both in
height and circumference. So if you are still building make sure that it fits
tight at least in height because it shrinks over time. I got a new filter thinking
oh well the other one was already a few years old, just sitting there. The
new one also shrank in 50 or so hours.
Looks like I also need to add a plate to the bottom. The problem I see with Epoxy,
not sure about proseal, that it will have a hard time sticking to the already
fuel/oil soaked fiberglass.
If that piece of aluminum gets unglued, it will rub a hole real quick through the
fiberglass bottom. I'm thinking rivets with washers under the shop head (on
the outside) would work better than glue.
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441746#441746
Message 3
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| Subject: | How long does your annual take? |
And he's well stocked for years to come!! :-)
do not archive
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: How long does your annual take?
Jesse, seems you're using your kids like others swap wrenches from one job to the
other :)
Cheers Werner
do not archive
On 05.05.2015 00:21, Jesse Saint wrote:
> I put my 12-year-old to work one day per week already. He's perfect
> for opening panels and for crawling in the tailcones for inspection,
> lubrication and fabrication. I've even used my 8-year-old a few times.
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Filter Air Box |
You can possibly 'bow it back' into a tight fit by applying heat and
pressure to the FG housing. A heat gun will do it.
On 5/4/2015 9:08 AM, Vernon Franklin wrote:
> I finished the FAB this weekend, and after it was all said and done, I
> have about a 3/32" gap between the air filter seal and the fiberglass
> housing. I think the fiberglass bowed out a little after I finished
> riveting.
>
> Options I am thinking about:
> 1) A bead of RTV around the circumference of the filter.
> 2) Use aluminum and try to build up some kind of lip around the air
> filter
> 3) Live with it as is
>
> Any ideas or recommendations?
>
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Filter Air Box |
I was late to the party... will be re-inspecting my FAB at the next
de-cowling.
On 5/5/2015 11:42 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
> You can possibly 'bow it back' into a tight fit by applying heat and
> pressure to the FG housing. A heat gun will do it.
>
> On 5/4/2015 9:08 AM, Vernon Franklin wrote:
>> I finished the FAB this weekend, and after it was all said and done,
>> I have about a 3/32" gap between the air filter seal and the
>> fiberglass housing. I think the fiberglass bowed out a little after
>> I finished riveting.
>>
>> Options I am thinking about:
>> 1) A bead of RTV around the circumference of the filter.
>> 2) Use aluminum and try to build up some kind of lip around the air
>> filter
>> 3) Live with it as is
>>
>> Any ideas or recommendations?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Vernon Franklin
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> 05/04/15
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | EFII - the jury is coming in |
Well, I think it's about time that I post a few of my experiences with the EFII
system (dual ignition and injection) in the RV-10. I do believe N930M is the
first RV-10, and possibly the first 6-cylinder engine, to be flying with the full
EFII system. I now have 20 hours in it and feel like I should share my experiences
and thoughts on it. I have talked to several people who have shown interest
or who are planning to install it in their -10's, so this is mainly for
those people, or those who may be on the fence.
First of all, it is a system that required, IMHO, a fair bit more planning than
a standard engine with mags and mechanical fuel injection. Even with electronic
ignition on one or both sides. I have had a few misgivings of flying -10's
with dual lightspeeds, but that didn't last very long. I am actually very much
looking forward to flying with the P-mag if/when they ever actually start delivering
them. With dual electronic ignition and electronic injection, though,
it mecomes much more serious. You really should have dual batteries, at at least
dual contactors, if not full dual busses. You really should have dual alternators,
or at least it's a very good idea. You need dual fuel pumps because there
is no engine-driven pump. if any of these systems aren't redundant and the
only one fails, you either are immediately a glider or shortly will be. I know
that the battery can keep you going for a while if the alternator fails, but
I'm not about to test how long that is. I also think it's very important to have
dual ECU's, one controlling each ignition and each can separately control
the injection system. I know this becomes a fairly expensive system, but just
think, at least it's only 30-year-old technology instead of 80-year-old technology.
To be perfectly honest, it took several weeks after first engine run for me to
get up the nerve to climb in and go flying. I was very careful to stay within
gliding distance of the runway for the first several hours. I just didn't fully
understand all that was going on (still don't) and was nervous about being the
test pilot for a new system. I have done first flights before, but never with
a system that had never flown in this configuration before (at least that I
am aware of).
The setup was, honestly, a little disappointing. Rob has been fairly available,
usually with a call back after leaving a voicemail. I know this system has run
on a test stand on more than one occasion, and honestly there were a TON of
settings that I had to put in from a spreadsheet that should have been put in
at the factory. It was not a mystery that this was going in a -10, so the 300
pages of settings should have been preset. After getting them going and doing
the ground testing to setup more accurate fuel mapping, I got to the point where
I was willing to take to the skies.
Most of the above has been fairly negative, but I think a lot of it is plowing
new ground and the time we have spent on this one should help others down the
road. I now have 19.8 hours on the system, and it has not missed a single beat
in flight. There have been some issues in starting and things like that, but
we are figuring out what works. I have not taken the time to tweak all of the
fuel maps and settings, but we have things mostly setup and I have been very impressed
with the way it has operated so far. Up until the last few hours, I have
still told people, "the jury is still out," but I am getting much closer to
a verdict now. It took this long for me to get to the point of saying, "I would
climb in and fly it to the Bahamas," or "I would feel comfortable putting
my kids in it and flying to Kansas."
Some things different about the system and the way the engine runs are the following:
1. I can run this engine as low as 400 rpm and it is smooth. I have never run an
IO-540 lower than 750-850 rpm because it shakes and shudders. It must be a combination
of the variable timing and the fact that the fuel is electronically
injected into the intakes for each cylinder, so at low rpm all cylinders are
still getting the right amount of fuel.
2. I have done some extensive leaning in flight and have yet to get to the point
where the engine stumbles or starts to miss. This is probably related to the
same as #1, but it can run amazingly lean in flight and still run smooth. Yes,
at a point you start loosing enough power that you give up a lot of speed, but
I truly don't think I have seen fuel flows as low in a standard -540 as I have
seen in this one, at the same MAP and RPM settings.
3. There truly is no such thing as a hot start issue. I know, you can tell me until
you are blue in the face that you have a perfect system that works every
time and you never have a problem with hot starts. I have flown probably 20 different
RV-10's and many more than that different fuel injected engines, and the
hot start is more difficult than a cold start. I have a system that works most
of the time, but I have yet to see a system that consistently requires no
more cranking than a cold start. The EFII starts hot exactly the same as it starts
cold, if not a little better. Since so much fuel is being pumped back to
the tank, any time your master is on you have cool fuel in the system.
4. While you can use the mixture knob (potentiometer mounted on the panel) to adjust
your AFR (Air Fuel Ratio), there is truly much less mixture adjustment as
altitude changes as long as power setting doesn't. I know I have said recently,
"if you think you won't be touching the mixture control, you are mistaken,"
or something along those lines. However, as you get things setup more, once
you get setup in cruise with your MAP, RPM and AFR where you want them, you really
can fly the rest of your flight that way...INCLUDING THE DESCENT. This is
something that really stands out to me. Let's say I am flying along at 12,500
feet at 18" MAP, 2,300 RPM and AFR of 16.7. I can descend to pattern altitude
with nothing to touch except the throttle knob. The governor keeps the prop at
2,300 RPM and the EFII keeps the AFR at 16.7 (more or less, but close). With
a standard injection system, I have to keep adding mixture the whole way down.
I usually find myself going to the rich side of peak as I descend simply so
I don't have to adjust the mixture as often. When I see the EGT's start to climb
towards peak, I richen up a bit more. If I don't do this and I don't stay on
it, I end up getting so lean that the plane really accelerates when I add mixture.
With the EFII, you really don't have to touch anything until you are on
final, when you are preparing the mixture knob and the prop control for a go-around
if you need one.
Final thoughts:
1. Would I recommend the EFII system to other people building RV-10's? That depends.
Some people just want to fly. They want to climb in and go somewhere and
not have to think about it. For them I would say, go with mags and a Bendix,
Silverhawk or AFP injection system and enjoy. For those who want to do the tweaking
and testing to get a little better performance or better economy, then this
just might be the system for you.
2. Doesn't useable fuel decrease because you are dumping so much fuel back in the
tank and could start sucking air at a higher fuel level? I burned a tank down
until I saw 0 on the Dynon and it took 29.5 gallons to fill back up. I didn't
wait until it missed, but it was running solid up to that point. I doubt there
is more than a quart of difference in useable fuel, if that much.
3. Would I put my wife and/or children in it? I have already answered this, but
the true answer is, "not all of them at the same time." :) There are too many
of them. Yes, I would put my loved ones in it.
4. Does it truly perform better than a standard system? Honestly, I don't know,
but it sure seems like it does. Without quoting a lot of numbers and comparing,
I think it does perform a little better, and I have not gotten very deep at
all into the tweaking to make it even better yet.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
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| Subject: | EFII - the jury is coming in |
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