Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:52 AM - Re: Tech in the front office (Bill Watson)
2. 08:41 AM - Re: Tech in the front office (Carl Froehlich)
3. 09:30 AM - Re: Tech in the front office (Tim Olson)
4. 09:42 AM - Re: Tech in the front office (Rene)
5. 09:58 AM - Re: Tech in the front office (Rene)
6. 12:48 PM - Re: Tech in the front office (Bob Turner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tech in the front office |
Yes, that's what I meant. Whether the reasons are due to business
relationships or conservatism/stability, I have seen no indication that
there is any plan to link Navworx/ADSB Wx and traffic with Foreflight.
I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to continue to make noise about it. OTOH,
while it would be real nice to display at least Navworx generated Nexrad
imagery on Foreflight, I don't really miss it. I try to keep my
eyeballs on the EFIS displays as much as possible. In VMC conditions it
keeps my eyes closer to looking outside. In IMC it keeps my eyes on
what needs to be scanned to keep the airplane upright even if I let
Tiger do most of the flying.
So the first priority is having as much information as possible
displayed on the panel mounted EFISs including weather and traffic. The
iPad is for planning and what-ifs. For example, the iPad map is always
'north up', the EFIS map is always heading up. I never skew the map
display on the EFIS but constantly skew it on the iPad. I've spent zero
time checking out the AI and Syn Vision functions on Foreflight (I don't
think I have everything it takes to enable them). My primary and backup
instruments are all panel mounted. That is, if the stuff hits the fan I
want everything I need on the installed panel. Then I'm sure it would
be nice to have the iPad to help out if available.
My primary wish list involves upgraded EFISs for faster processors and
higher resolution displays so that things like plate overlays would work
satisfactorily. Upgraded GRT units are available but would require more
panel reengineering than is justified right now. That makes the iPad,
and in my case Foreflight, the sweet spot for investments.
But having had my initial IFR flying done with a six pack sans AP, my
GRT/Garmin/Trutrak panel continues to be wonderful and surprising....
the first time I saw some crossing traffic whiz by on my synthetic
visions display, I had to chuckle. I didn't know it would do that!
That was almost as good as sitting in my half built fuselage after
upgrading my GRTs with Synthetic Vision... sitting in a windowless
hangar, I powered it up and all of a sudden a picture of the runway and
lake outside appeared on the screens! Oh Yeah!!
Bill "think I'm going to Pittsburgh later today to see my Mom" Watson
On 5/10/2015 6:19 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
> Bill is partially correct. I doubt that Foreflight will ever
> support NavWorx. Now if you want to use WingX or another
> application, it shouldn't be a problem.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 10, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com
> <mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com>> wrote:
>
>> Why do you say the NavWorX will never be able to be hooked to your
>> iPad? I'm assuming you just have it connected to the GRT via RS232.
>> If so, you can just split the TX wire and send it to the Wifi
>> adapter. It should easily be able to do both GRT and iPad.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com
>> <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have an iPad running Foreflight pro with the Bad Elf GPS puck (my
>>> original iPad was wifi only so it required a separate GPS puck, my
>>> current iPad has the internal GPS but I still use the puck).
>>>
>>> I have a separate Navworx ADSB receiver that will never be able to
>>> be linked to my iPad - so no weather or traffic is displayed on the
>>> iPad. Instead I look to my primary EFIS displays (Grand Rapids HXs)
>>> for weather and traffic overlayed on the navigation screens. The
>>> iPad is a supplement... but a drool worthy one that I don't leave
>>> home without.
>>>
>>> I file and fly IFR on practically every flight. Flight planning and
>>> filing is done on the iPad using Foreflight. Every base is well
>>> covered by Foreflight and it still manages to delight when I need
>>> something new like filing an ICAO flight plan for an international
>>> flight to the Bahamas. Often the planning and filing is done in a
>>> hotel room, in a car or at the FBO. I rarely use FBO flight
>>> planning rooms or equipment.
>>>
>>> I learned the art of chart folding and pencil management flying
>>> single pilot IFR without an AP. But since then I've gone paperless
>>> with the iPad and Foreflight. No charts, no pencils, just a
>>> subscription, a stylus for writing clearances on the Foreflight
>>> scratch pad, and an iPhone running Foreflight for backup (the second
>>> copy is part of the basic or pro Foreflight package).
>>>
>>> The key to making this work for me was a good mount. I built a
>>> fiberglass center console that 1) houses a O2 bottle and 2) holds a
>>> RAM mount for the iPad that puts it right under my right hand during
>>> flight so it can be easily used. You can see it here Kitlog page of
>>> console construction
>>> <http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=8533>
>>> (I really need a picture of it being used in the cockpit). I also
>>> added a USB charging port which typically gets used for my wife's
>>> phone. The iPad's capacity is equivalent to the 10's range.
>>>
>>> I don't know where the sweet spot is but the iPad with Foreflight
>>> Pro or it's equivalent is a required part of my IFR flying. I do my
>>> 'tactical' flying with my panel mounted EFISs but all planning,
>>> what-ifs, thinking and re-orienting is done with the iPad.
>>> Geo-referenced taxi diagrams is almost worth the price if you fly
>>> into a lot of new-to-you larger airports. It's a fair price for a
>>> whole lot of benefit. It's a game changer, a drooler, a "I'll never
>>> go back" kind of tool.
>>>
>>> Looking at the bigger picture, portables enable us to keep our
>>> cockpits current at a much more reasonable cost than a panel
>>> upgrade. My panel was set in stone in late 2008. A lot has
>>> happened since then. While software upgrades to my EFIS and other
>>> components have helped keep them somewhat current, we rely on the
>>> portable to get the latest functions implemented in the best
>>> possible ways, e.g. touch screen functionality, faster processors,
>>> higher resolution screens. None of these are 'must haves' but they
>>> are very very nice to haves and they are available for a fraction of
>>> the cost of panel upgrades.
>>>
>>> On 5/9/2015 10:46 AM, kearney wrote:
>>>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tech in the front office |
I fully agree with Bill=99s statement on having what you need on
the EFIS display.
Attached is a screen shoot taken on an IFR trip from Macon Georgia back
to Fredericksburg Virginia with a lot of navigating around a stalled
weather line. While it is possible to do all this on an iPad, I would
not want to do this with the iPad as the primary information integration
tool.
Note =93 I normally have the engine data on the other display. I
added it to the primary display only to get everything on one screen
shoot. Typical set up is to have moving map and PDF on the pilot side
EFIS, engine display with IFR/VFR chart or approach plate on the
co-pilot EFIS.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech in the front office
Yes, that's what I meant. Whether the reasons are due to business
relationships or conservatism/stability, I have seen no indication that
there is any plan to link Navworx/ADSB Wx and traffic with Foreflight.
I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to continue to make noise about it. OTOH,
while it would be real nice to display at least Navworx generated Nexrad
imagery on Foreflight, I don't really miss it. I try to keep my
eyeballs on the EFIS displays as much as possible. In VMC conditions it
keeps my eyes closer to looking outside. In IMC it keeps my eyes on
what needs to be scanned to keep the airplane upright even if I let
Tiger do most of the flying.
So the first priority is having as much information as possible
displayed on the panel mounted EFISs including weather and traffic. The
iPad is for planning and what-ifs. For example, the iPad map is always
'north up', the EFIS map is always heading up. I never skew the map
display on the EFIS but constantly skew it on the iPad. I've spent zero
time checking out the AI and Syn Vision functions on Foreflight (I don't
think I have everything it takes to enable them). My primary and backup
instruments are all panel mounted. That is, if the stuff hits the fan I
want everything I need on the installed panel. Then I'm sure it would
be nice to have the iPad to help out if available.
My primary wish list involves upgraded EFISs for faster processors and
higher resolution displays so that things like plate overlays would work
satisfactorily. Upgraded GRT units are available but would require more
panel reengineering than is justified right now. That makes the iPad,
and in my case Foreflight, the sweet spot for investments.
But having had my initial IFR flying done with a six pack sans AP, my
GRT/Garmin/Trutrak panel continues to be wonderful and surprising....
the first time I saw some crossing traffic whiz by on my synthetic
visions display, I had to chuckle. I didn't know it would do that!
That was almost as good as sitting in my half built fuselage after
upgrading my GRTs with Synthetic Vision... sitting in a windowless
hangar, I powered it up and all of a sudden a picture of the runway and
lake outside appeared on the screens! Oh Yeah!!
Bill "think I'm going to Pittsburgh later today to see my Mom" Watson
On 5/10/2015 6:19 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
Bill is partially correct. I doubt that Foreflight will ever support
NavWorx. Now if you want to use WingX or another application, it
shouldn't be a problem.
Sent from my iPad
On May 10, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
Why do you say the NavWorX will never be able to be hooked to your iPad?
I'm assuming you just have it connected to the GRT via RS232. If so,
you can just split the TX wire and send it to the Wifi adapter. It
should easily be able to do both GRT and iPad.
Tim
On May 10, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
I have an iPad running Foreflight pro with the Bad Elf GPS puck (my
original iPad was wifi only so it required a separate GPS puck, my
current iPad has the internal GPS but I still use the puck).
I have a separate Navworx ADSB receiver that will never be able to be
linked to my iPad - so no weather or traffic is displayed on the iPad.
Instead I look to my primary EFIS displays (Grand Rapids HXs) for
weather and traffic overlayed on the navigation screens. The iPad is a
supplement... but a drool worthy one that I don't leave home without.
I file and fly IFR on practically every flight. Flight planning and
filing is done on the iPad using Foreflight. Every base is well covered
by Foreflight and it still manages to delight when I need something new
like filing an ICAO flight plan for an international flight to the
Bahamas. Often the planning and filing is done in a hotel room, in a
car or at the FBO. I rarely use FBO flight planning rooms or equipment.
I learned the art of chart folding and pencil management flying single
pilot IFR without an AP. But since then I've gone paperless with the
iPad and Foreflight. No charts, no pencils, just a subscription, a
stylus for writing clearances on the Foreflight scratch pad, and an
iPhone running Foreflight for backup (the second copy is part of the
basic or pro Foreflight package).
The key to making this work for me was a good mount. I built a
fiberglass center console that 1) houses a O2 bottle and 2) holds a RAM
mount for the iPad that puts it right under my right hand during flight
so it can be easily used. You can see it here Kitlog page of console
construction
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=
224&category=8533> (I really need a picture of it being used in the
cockpit). I also added a USB charging port which typically gets used
for my wife's phone. The iPad's capacity is equivalent to the 10's
range.
I don't know where the sweet spot is but the iPad with Foreflight Pro or
it's equivalent is a required part of my IFR flying. I do my 'tactical'
flying with my panel mounted EFISs but all planning, what-ifs, thinking
and re-orienting is done with the iPad. Geo-referenced taxi diagrams is
almost worth the price if you fly into a lot of new-to-you larger
airports. It's a fair price for a whole lot of benefit. It's a game
changer, a drooler, a "I'll never go back" kind of tool.
Looking at the bigger picture, portables enable us to keep our cockpits
current at a much more reasonable cost than a panel upgrade. My panel
was set in stone in late 2008. A lot has happened since then. While
software upgrades to my EFIS and other components have helped keep them
somewhat current, we rely on the portable to get the latest functions
implemented in the best possible ways, e.g. touch screen functionality,
faster processors, higher resolution screens. None of these are 'must
haves' but they are very very nice to haves and they are available for a
fraction of the cost of panel upgrades.
On 5/9/2015 10:46 AM, kearney wrote:
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tech in the front office |
I agree 100%. Having it on the EFIS is the only way to go.
That said, having it ALSO on an ipad isn't a bad idea, if
you have the capability. It can't hurt...you can always
turn it off. In my case, the ipad apps display more of the
data types than the EFIS does, and, if you use it for
charts, it does actively put the TFR's on the ipad then
too, so at least WHEN you look at the ipad, you have
the data you need.
Tim
On 5/11/2015 10:37 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> I fully agree with Bills statement on having what you need on the EFIS
> display.
>
> Attached is a screen shoot taken on an IFR trip from Macon Georgia back
> to Fredericksburg Virginia with a lot of navigating around a stalled
> weather line. While it is possible to do all this on an iPad, I would
> not want to do this with the iPad as the primary information integration
> tool.
>
> Note I normally have the engine data on the other display. I added it
> to the primary display only to get everything on one screen shoot.
> Typical set up is to have moving map and PDF on the pilot side EFIS,
> engine display with IFR/VFR chart or approach plate on the co-pilot EFIS.
>
> Carl
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Tech in the front office |
I agree with Tim, great to also have all the info on the ipad. I use the ipad
to look forward when in cruse while keeping my EFIS in the normal flight range.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech in the front office
I agree 100%. Having it on the EFIS is the only way to go.
That said, having it ALSO on an ipad isn't a bad idea, if you have the capability.
It can't hurt...you can always turn it off. In my case, the ipad apps display
more of the data types than the EFIS does, and, if you use it for charts,
it does actively put the TFR's on the ipad then too, so at least WHEN you look
at the ipad, you have the data you need.
Tim
On 5/11/2015 10:37 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> I fully agree with Bills statement on having what you need on the
> EFIS display.
>
> Attached is a screen shoot taken on an IFR trip from Macon Georgia
> back to Fredericksburg Virginia with a lot of navigating around a
> stalled weather line. While it is possible to do all this on an iPad,
> I would not want to do this with the iPad as the primary information
> integration tool.
>
> Note I normally have the engine data on the other display. I added
> it to the primary display only to get everything on one screen shoot.
> Typical set up is to have moving map and PDF on the pilot side EFIS,
> engine display with IFR/VFR chart or approach plate on the co-pilot EFIS.
>
> Carl
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Tech in the front office |
Also, being able to get all the latest airport information via the ADS-B is great.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tech in the front office
I agree with Tim, great to also have all the info on the ipad. I use the ipad
to look forward when in cruse while keeping my EFIS in the normal flight range.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech in the front office
I agree 100%. Having it on the EFIS is the only way to go.
That said, having it ALSO on an ipad isn't a bad idea, if you have the capability.
It can't hurt...you can always turn it off. In my case, the ipad apps display
more of the data types than the EFIS does, and, if you use it for charts,
it does actively put the TFR's on the ipad then too, so at least WHEN you look
at the ipad, you have the data you need.
Tim
On 5/11/2015 10:37 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> I fully agree with Bills statement on having what you need on the
> EFIS display.
>
> Attached is a screen shoot taken on an IFR trip from Macon Georgia
> back to Fredericksburg Virginia with a lot of navigating around a
> stalled weather line. While it is possible to do all this on an iPad,
> I would not want to do this with the iPad as the primary information
> integration tool.
>
> Note I normally have the engine data on the other display. I added
> it to the primary display only to get everything on one screen shoot.
> Typical set up is to have moving map and PDF on the pilot side EFIS,
> engine display with IFR/VFR chart or approach plate on the co-pilot EFIS.
>
> Carl
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tech in the front office |
I also agree with having the info up on the panel, especially for traffic. For
traffic you need to look every few minutes (or hear it - GRT now has audio alerts),
and that's too much head-down time if you're vfr and have an iPad on your
lap.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
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