Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:11 AM - Trip to Albuquerque (n326jl)
2. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Baggage Area Weight (Albert)
3. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: Baggage Area Weight (Tim Olson)
4. 11:06 AM - Re: Baggage Area Weight (Bob Turner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Trip to Albuquerque |
My wife and I are flying to the Albuquerque area in mid July in our RV-10. We'll
be at KAEG for about a week. I'd like to meet other builders and EAA members
in the area while we're there. If you're interested please contact me at: n326jl@gmail.com
Lee Otto
Visalia, CA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Area Weight |
I've had this same issue several times. Parked at Monument Valley, 4
souls on board, 1/4 tanks and tail pointed downhill on slight slop. Tail
tiedown ring hit the ground as soon as I was on the step. Now under same
conditions I get out and move forward on wing while passenger behind me
get out and off. I load RR seat, then RF, then LR, then me all the time.
I like to close passenger door myself to make sure it's properly done.
On a long flight down to La Paz, MX, we put some heavy items under
passengers feet.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Baggage Area Weight
I agree with Tim. Put any reasonable sized folks in the rear seats, and
the baggage area capability goes down drastically due to the CG moving
aft, especially as fuel burns off.
If I have a lot of stuff to carry, I try to put it as far forward as I
can get it.
My wife likes to ride in the back seat now (easier for her to get in
with her knee complications) so I end up putting luggage in the vacant
front seat and the vacant rear seat rather than the baggage compartment.
As you get more experience with your bird, you=99ll find you
really don=99t want a cg that is aft of the Van=99s
published limits.
As an example, on my trip to Osh last year, I had 3 males (180 avg
weight) and one 55lb grandson on board. Lightly packed luggage for the
trip. Full fuel put us right at the max, but cg was ok. Landed for
fuel (about 1/2 tanks). I was the first one out of the plane to help
others out, etc. as soon as I stepped off the wing, the plane settled
back on the tail tie down.
So, if you are loading up to the max, not only do you need to do your cg
calculations, but you need to plan on who gets in/out first when you are
on the ground. And pitch in the flare/rotation is very sensitive when
cg is near the aft limits.
It can be done just make sure you know what you have!
grumpy
N184JM
On Jun 11, 2015, at 4:49 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
On the flip side too, if you don't have kids but adults in the back,
especially bigger or maybe today I should say "normal" ones, you're not
likely to get anywhere near 100lbs in the baggage area because of CG
limits. I just had a discussion with another builder about upping the
gross wt limit. My basic end comment was that I don't think it is an
idea with a lot of value (unless you have extended range wing tanks)
because if you are indeed flying over 2700lbs, you're not going to have
an easy time having a safe flying plane because of aft CG issues. By
the time you get 2800 or more lbs in the plane, CG is going to be a
problem or at least very near a limit. So there isn't much point. I
can easily tell when I am getting aft...your tail will try to hit the
ground when you use the step....or you may even have a light nose when
pulling with a tow bar if people are in the plane. And when you rotate
or flare, it gets REAL pitch sensitive. So it really would take a very
odd load to get something over 150lbs in the baggage area. I haven't
met anyone flying concrete bricks around. Maybe a mother-in-law stuffed
in a suitcase in the tail, I suppose may happen though...some of them at
times go well over 150. At least in the cheese state. ;). Vans seemed to
get it about right I think for the most part when they put together the
specs.
Tim
On Jun 11, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Rob Kochman <rv10rob@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Tim. The first time we packed to the ceiling for a family
trip, I carefully weighed everything and was surprised that my total was
less than 100. Now I just cram everything in there and don't worry
about it (because with a kid in the back we're nowhere near the aft CG
limit).
I suppose someday I'll need to haul bathroom tiles, and it'll be
relevant :)
-Rob
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
I've heard some people reference 150 that they saw too, but Grumpy
has it just as I remember...I think when we were building, we were
told 100. Personally, I think that's a pretty irrelevant number.
It basically will hold what it will hold, and unless you're carrying
something ultra heavy, it's probably a non-issue, and if it
is THAT heavy, you have a much bigger problem with CG.
Tim
On 6/10/2015 8:50 PM, Miller John wrote:
For what it=99s worth, the weight limit in the rear has been
100lbs since I bought my kit in the spring of 2005. I have never seen
anything from Van=99s that had a higher weight limit there.
Grumpy
N184JM
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:49 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
No, I never did get an answer.
200 lbs crawling around is no issue. Remember the floor has to hold 3.8
x 100 (or is it 150?) pounds, 3.8 being the max allowed g loading.
I wonder if the change was just because Vans was worried that people
would just shove 150 lbs back there without doing a cg calculation(!).
With adults in the back seats and low fuel, I could get aft of the aft
limit.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443358#443358
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Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Area Weight |
I have to do the same thing with weight on our trips with SCUBA gear. I
actually
bring my weight pouches (lead shot) for our buoyancy vests (not something
I'd normally care to carry). There is a lot of space on the floor
forward of the
rudder pedals and plenty of height so there is no obstruction worry...but I
place the weights up by the firewall just to help with CG issues being
too far
aft.
I've said it many times in the past, but probably worth saying again.
The RV-10 is NOT a noseheavy airplane. Yes, it will take all the trim you
can give it in some situations, but you would not want to do anything
with the *intention* of attempting to correct it's fairly forward CG
empty configuration.
Do some W&B's on the airplane and you'll see that you can stick
two 350lb pilot/co-pilots in the front and have almost no effect
on CG. So basically EVERYTHING you put in the airplane will
gradually erode all of the CG range you have.
Tim
On 6/12/2015 12:08 PM, Albert wrote:
>
> I've had this same issue several times. Parked at Monument Valley, 4
> souls on board, 1/4 tanks and tail pointed downhill on slight slop.
> Tail tiedown ring hit the ground as soon as I was on the step. Now
> under same conditions I get out and move forward on wing while
> passenger behind me get out and off. I load RR seat, then RF, then LR,
> then me all the time. I like to close passenger door myself to make
> sure it's properly done. On a long flight down to La Paz, MX, we put
> some heavy items under passengers feet.
>
> Albert Gardner
>
> N991RV
>
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Area Weight |
I certainly agree with Tim on this. When I fly solo (I'm short so my seat is almost
full forward, plus I'm a tad shy of standard 170 lbs) the cg is a bit forward
of the forward limit - I have to carry 20 lbs of water in the baggage area.
But I wouldn't dream of fixing this 'problem'. When I carry passengers I just
pour the water out, and then I can load a bit more before hitting the aft limit.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443440#443440
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