Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:18 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Tim Olson)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation ()
3. 06:56 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Tim Olson)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Linn Walters)
5. 07:44 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Rob Kermanj)
6. 07:53 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Dj Merrill)
7. 09:09 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Carl Froehlich)
8. 09:50 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Kelly McMullen)
9. 10:16 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Rob Kermanj)
10. 10:29 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Dj Merrill)
11. 10:40 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Linn Walters)
12. 11:00 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Dj Merrill)
13. 11:11 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Tim Olson)
14. 11:29 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Linn Walters)
15. 11:56 AM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Tim Olson)
16. 01:18 PM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Kelly McMullen)
17. 01:46 PM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Kelly McMullen)
18. 03:50 PM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Kevin Belue)
19. 06:30 PM - Re: Dual battery isolation (Bill Watson)
20. 07:01 PM - KOSH Request (kearney)
21. 07:15 PM - Re: KOSH Request (Bob Condrey)
22. 07:33 PM - Re: KOSH Request (kearney)
23. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: KOSH Request (Bob Condrey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
I would just keep the one battery the way it is, charging off the motor,
and then put
the diode between the positive terminals of the batteries so that the
second battery
charges off the first battery. It won't flow power back from that
second to the
first, but if they're the same type of battery it should keep them both
charged.
Now, if they aren't the same battery chemistry, I'd rethink it all and
probably
buy that special charger. (i.e. if one is a normal starting battery and
one is
deep cycle or something like that) I'm not sure what adjustments you'd
have to
make for the various battery chemistries. It's much easier if you are
dealing with
the same battery types.
Tim
On 7/13/2015 9:13 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the lightning response, Tim. I'm on it. I assume I can
> just put the charge wire from the motor to both diodes, then from each
> diode to each battery?
>
> Later, - Lew
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
Hmmm, the part number DSS2x121-0045B looks like it is two diodes side by
side? That's why I was thinking total isolation. I wouldn't want the main
battery to be drained by running the trolling motor for hours while the
engine is off.
For RV application, you might be interested in researching this automatic
charging relay with start isolation by Blue Sea Systems
https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A
I'll see if attaching the pdf instructions to this works.
Later, - Lew
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dual battery isolation
I would just keep the one battery the way it is, charging off the motor,
and then put
the diode between the positive terminals of the batteries so that the
second battery
charges off the first battery. It won't flow power back from that
second to the
first, but if they're the same type of battery it should keep them both
charged.
Now, if they aren't the same battery chemistry, I'd rethink it all and
probably
buy that special charger. (i.e. if one is a normal starting battery and
one is
deep cycle or something like that) I'm not sure what adjustments you'd
have to
make for the various battery chemistries. It's much easier if you are
dealing with
the same battery types.
Tim
On 7/13/2015 9:13 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the lightning response, Tim. I'm on it. I assume I can just
> put the charge wire from the motor to both diodes, then from each diode to
> each battery?
>
> Later, - Lew
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
Good point.
For a boat, if it were me, I'd either add a switch then
in series so I could get rid of that connection
when trolling, or, you could stick in a relay that
is either tweaked so that it only closes the relay
when you get a charging voltage over a certain
setpoint, like 13.2V or something...or, it only
closes when the engine is running (detected by
some other means). Really, personally, I would probably
in real life not even bother to hack this stuff together.
Parts add up to $$ eventually, and I'd rather buy a
product like that $109.97 automatic charging relay,
that is well made. So I wouldn't even screw with the
stuff you're looking for.
In the plane, it was easy for me to do what I wanted though.
Tim
On 7/14/2015 8:02 AM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
> Hmmm, the part number DSS2x121-0045B looks like it is two diodes side by
> side? That's why I was thinking total isolation. I wouldn't want the
> main battery to be drained by running the trolling motor for hours while
> the engine is off.
>
> For RV application, you might be interested in researching this
> automatic charging relay with start isolation by Blue Sea Systems
> https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A
>
>
> I'll see if attaching the pdf instructions to this works.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:14 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dual battery isolation
>
>
> I would just keep the one battery the way it is, charging off the motor,
> and then put
> the diode between the positive terminals of the batteries so that the
> second battery
> charges off the first battery. It won't flow power back from that
> second to the
> first, but if they're the same type of battery it should keep them both
> charged.
> Now, if they aren't the same battery chemistry, I'd rethink it all and
> probably
> buy that special charger. (i.e. if one is a normal starting battery and
> one is
> deep cycle or something like that) I'm not sure what adjustments you'd
> have to
> make for the various battery chemistries. It's much easier if you are
> dealing with
> the same battery types.
> Tim
>
> On 7/13/2015 9:13 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the lightning response, Tim. I'm on it. I assume I can
>> just put the charge wire from the motor to both diodes, then from each
>> diode to each battery?
>>
>> Later, - Lew
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
Sorry guys ..... I just don't understand.
I've deleted a couple of my 'replies' to this thread before I hit 'send'
already because I can't offer anything really constructive ..... other
than this is what happens when you violate the 'KISS' principle.
Why do you need two batteries? Oh, the 'essential buss'. Well, I have
switches and fuses for removing all items that do not have their own
on/off switch. I can take the time to do that after I get a 'low
voltage' warning from multiple sources.
Want more cranking power? Use a higher CCA battery. Still want to
isolate that battery and load? A switch and a high current relay work
really well but suffers from the human not being automatic .........
So, now we add more and more failure points, weight, and $$$ ........
it all adds up, an ounce here and a penny there .... soon you have
pounds and an 'aviation dollar'.
Linn .... KISS supporter (and IMHO)
On 7/14/2015 9:53 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Good point.
> For a boat, if it were me, I'd either add a switch then
> in series so I could get rid of that connection
> when trolling, or, you could stick in a relay that
> is either tweaked so that it only closes the relay
> when you get a charging voltage over a certain
> setpoint, like 13.2V or something...or, it only
> closes when the engine is running (detected by
> some other means). Really, personally, I would probably
> in real life not even bother to hack this stuff together.
> Parts add up to $$ eventually, and I'd rather buy a
> product like that $109.97 automatic charging relay,
> that is well made. So I wouldn't even screw with the
> stuff you're looking for.
>
> In the plane, it was easy for me to do what I wanted though.
> Tim
>
>
> On 7/14/2015 8:02 AM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>> Hmmm, the part number DSS2x121-0045B looks like it is two diodes side by
>> side? That's why I was thinking total isolation. I wouldn't want the
>> main battery to be drained by running the trolling motor for hours while
>> the engine is off.
>>
>> For RV application, you might be interested in researching this
>> automatic charging relay with start isolation by Blue Sea Systems
>> https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll see if attaching the pdf instructions to this works.
>>
>> Later, - Lew
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Tim Olson
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:14 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dual battery isolation
>>
>>
>> I would just keep the one battery the way it is, charging off the motor,
>> and then put
>> the diode between the positive terminals of the batteries so that the
>> second battery
>> charges off the first battery. It won't flow power back from that
>> second to the
>> first, but if they're the same type of battery it should keep them both
>> charged.
>> Now, if they aren't the same battery chemistry, I'd rethink it all and
>> probably
>> buy that special charger. (i.e. if one is a normal starting battery and
>> one is
>> deep cycle or something like that) I'm not sure what adjustments you'd
>> have to
>> make for the various battery chemistries. It's much easier if you are
>> dealing with
>> the same battery types.
>> Tim
>>
>> On 7/13/2015 9:13 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the lightning response, Tim. I'm on it. I assume I can
>>> just put the charge wire from the motor to both diodes, then from each
>>> diode to each battery?
>>>
>>> Later, - Lew
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 07/14/15
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
+1
do not archive.
Rob Kermanj
> On Jul 14, 2015, at 10:15 AM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry guys ..... I just don't understand.
> I've deleted a couple of my 'replies' to this thread before I hit 'send' already
because I can't offer anything really constructive ..... other than this is
what happens when you violate the 'KISS' principle.
>
> Why do you need two batteries? Oh, the 'essential buss'. Well, I have switches
and fuses for removing all items that do not have their own on/off switch.
I can take the time to do that after I get a 'low voltage' warning from multiple
sources.
>
> Want more cranking power? Use a higher CCA battery. Still want to isolate that
battery and load? A switch and a high current relay work really well but
suffers from the human not being automatic .........
>
> So, now we add more and more failure points, weight, and $$$ ........ it all
adds up, an ounce here and a penny there .... soon you have pounds and an 'aviation
dollar'.
> Linn .... KISS supporter (and IMHO)
>
> On 7/14/2015 9:53 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> Good point.
>> For a boat, if it were me, I'd either add a switch then
>> in series so I could get rid of that connection
>> when trolling, or, you could stick in a relay that
>> is either tweaked so that it only closes the relay
>> when you get a charging voltage over a certain
>> setpoint, like 13.2V or something...or, it only
>> closes when the engine is running (detected by
>> some other means). Really, personally, I would probably
>> in real life not even bother to hack this stuff together.
>> Parts add up to $$ eventually, and I'd rather buy a
>> product like that $109.97 automatic charging relay,
>> that is well made. So I wouldn't even screw with the
>> stuff you're looking for.
>>
>> In the plane, it was easy for me to do what I wanted though.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/2015 8:02 AM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>>> Hmmm, the part number DSS2x121-0045B looks like it is two diodes side by
>>> side? That's why I was thinking total isolation. I wouldn't want the
>>> main battery to be drained by running the trolling motor for hours while
>>> the engine is off.
>>>
>>> For RV application, you might be interested in researching this
>>> automatic charging relay with start isolation by Blue Sea Systems
>>> https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll see if attaching the pdf instructions to this works.
>>>
>>> Later, - Lew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Tim Olson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:14 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dual battery isolation
>>>
>>>
>>> I would just keep the one battery the way it is, charging off the motor,
>>> and then put
>>> the diode between the positive terminals of the batteries so that the
>>> second battery
>>> charges off the first battery. It won't flow power back from that
>>> second to the
>>> first, but if they're the same type of battery it should keep them both
>>> charged.
>>> Now, if they aren't the same battery chemistry, I'd rethink it all and
>>> probably
>>> buy that special charger. (i.e. if one is a normal starting battery and
>>> one is
>>> deep cycle or something like that) I'm not sure what adjustments you'd
>>> have to
>>> make for the various battery chemistries. It's much easier if you are
>>> dealing with
>>> the same battery types.
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> On 7/13/2015 9:13 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the lightning response, Tim. I'm on it. I assume I can
>>>> just put the charge wire from the motor to both diodes, then from each
>>>> diode to each battery?
>>>>
>>>> Later, - Lew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> 07/14/15
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
On 07/14/2015 10:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Why do you need two batteries?
Brownout.
With a glass panel, cranking the engine causes the panel to reboot,
which is a real PITA.
You can either have independent internal batteries for every electronic
device, or follow the KISS principal and have a single second battery on
an essential buss to keep everything up and running.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Dual battery isolation |
The reason is you can - at low cost and no weight penalty. With some
thought the result is you can eliminate a plethora of single component
failure scenarios that leave you with a dark panel. Two PC-625 batteries
provide all the cranking power I need, and each having a 17amp/hr rating
provides plenty of margin.
There are many power distribution schemes out there besides the "essential
buss" that seems to be popular. Happy to share how I did this on a series
of RVs if interested.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dual battery isolation
Sorry guys ..... I just don't understand.
I've deleted a couple of my 'replies' to this thread before I hit 'send'
already because I can't offer anything really constructive ..... other than
this is what happens when you violate the 'KISS' principle.
Why do you need two batteries? Oh, the 'essential buss'. Well, I have
switches and fuses for removing all items that do not have their own on/off
switch. I can take the time to do that after I get a 'low voltage' warning
from multiple sources.
Want more cranking power? Use a higher CCA battery. Still want to isolate
that battery and load? A switch and a high current relay work really well
but suffers from the human not being automatic .........
So, now we add more and more failure points, weight, and $$$ ........
it all adds up, an ounce here and a penny there .... soon you have pounds
and an 'aviation dollar'.
Linn .... KISS supporter (and IMHO)
On 7/14/2015 9:53 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Good point.
> For a boat, if it were me, I'd either add a switch then in series so I
> could get rid of that connection when trolling, or, you could stick in
> a relay that is either tweaked so that it only closes the relay when
> you get a charging voltage over a certain setpoint, like 13.2V or
> something...or, it only closes when the engine is running (detected by
> some other means). Really, personally, I would probably in real life
> not even bother to hack this stuff together.
> Parts add up to $$ eventually, and I'd rather buy a product like that
> $109.97 automatic charging relay, that is well made. So I wouldn't
> even screw with the stuff you're looking for.
>
> In the plane, it was easy for me to do what I wanted though.
> Tim
>
>
> On 7/14/2015 8:02 AM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>> Hmmm, the part number DSS2x121-0045B looks like it is two diodes side
>> by side? That's why I was thinking total isolation. I wouldn't want
>> the main battery to be drained by running the trolling motor for
>> hours while the engine is off.
>>
>> For RV application, you might be interested in researching this
>> automatic charging relay with start isolation by Blue Sea Systems
>> https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay
>> _-_12_24V_DC_120A
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll see if attaching the pdf instructions to this works.
>>
>> Later, - Lew
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Tim Olson
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:14 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dual battery isolation
>>
>>
>> I would just keep the one battery the way it is, charging off the
>> motor, and then put the diode between the positive terminals of the
>> batteries so that the second battery charges off the first battery.
>> It won't flow power back from that second to the first, but if
>> they're the same type of battery it should keep them both charged.
>> Now, if they aren't the same battery chemistry, I'd rethink it all
>> and probably buy that special charger. (i.e. if one is a normal
>> starting battery and one is deep cycle or something like that) I'm
>> not sure what adjustments you'd have to make for the various battery
>> chemistries. It's much easier if you are dealing with the same
>> battery types.
>> Tim
>>
>> On 7/13/2015 9:13 PM, lewgall@charter.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the lightning response, Tim. I'm on it. I assume I can
>>> just put the charge wire from the motor to both diodes, then from
>>> each diode to each battery?
>>>
>>> Later, - Lew
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 07/14/15
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
If you expect to fly lots of IFR in areas where widespread IFR is
common, that might be a reason.
With a glass panel, you only need one panel on for engine start, to
monitor oil pressure, etc.
Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts,
so brownout is unlikely.
With a glass panel you either want mechanical gyro backup or at least a
backup battery for the glass panel, by itself. Navigating and
communicating can be done with portable backups. Keeping upright is
better done with keeping the EFIS alive than depending on a portable
tablet, etc.
Or a couple companies offer mini-EFIS that will run for 3-4 hours on
batteries, in case you lose all your electrics. I am very comfortable
with my choices of single electrical system, single battery, with backup
battery on each of the two EFIS, with a Dynon D1 mini-EFIS for backup
and tie-breaking.
On 7/14/2015 7:50 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> On 07/14/2015 10:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>> Why do you need two batteries?
> Brownout.
>
> With a glass panel, cranking the engine causes the panel to reboot,
> which is a real PITA.
>
> You can either have independent internal batteries for every electronic
> device, or follow the KISS principal and have a single second battery on
> an essential buss to keep everything up and running.
>
> -Dj
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
I do not even turn on my panel before engine start. I really dont worry about
monitoring oil pressure immediately. If my engine has performed yesterday, it
is likely to perform the same again today.
Do not archive.
> On Jul 14, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
> If you expect to fly lots of IFR in areas where widespread IFR is common, that
might be a reason.
> With a glass panel, you only need one panel on for engine start, to monitor oil
pressure, etc.
> Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts, so brownout
is unlikely.
> With a glass panel you either want mechanical gyro backup or at least a backup
battery for the glass panel, by itself. Navigating and communicating can be
done with portable backups. Keeping upright is better done with keeping the EFIS
alive than depending on a portable tablet, etc.
> Or a couple companies offer mini-EFIS that will run for 3-4 hours on batteries,
in case you lose all your electrics. I am very comfortable with my choices
of single electrical system, single battery, with backup battery on each of the
two EFIS, with a Dynon D1 mini-EFIS for backup and tie-breaking.
>
>
> On 7/14/2015 7:50 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>>
>> On 07/14/2015 10:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>> Why do you need two batteries?
>> Brownout.
>>
>> With a glass panel, cranking the engine causes the panel to reboot,
>> which is a real PITA.
>>
>> You can either have independent internal batteries for every electronic
>> device, or follow the KISS principal and have a single second battery on
>> an essential buss to keep everything up and running.
>>
>> -Dj
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
On 07/14/2015 12:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
The beauty of experimental aviation is that we each get to choose our
own priorities. For me, brownout protection is a high priority.
> Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts,
> so brownout is unlikely.
I can confirm that my panel reboots if the secondary battery is not on,
and several others on here have written similar reports, so I'd actually
say it seems like brownout is very likely without having a secondary
power source for the display. In your description you say that you have
secondary batteries for each of your two EFIS units, which provide the
same functionality, with a slightly higher maintenance cost but also
slightly higher redundancy.
That's two different ways to solve the same issues, and I'm sure others
have other possible solutions as well. The important end result is one
that each person feels comfortable with, and none of the solutions are
any more "right" or "wrong" than another.
For me, it is more than just an inconvenience. My flow is to have
everything powered up, freqs set, checks done, flight plan entered, etc
and then start the engine.
Once the engine is started, your attention needs to be outside of the
aircraft, not focused inside on the pretty displays. This is basic
safety 101.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
My only response to 'brownout' while cranking is ..... you might have an
electrical problem.
Most likely causes would be using the airframe and #4 jumpers across
the engine mount isolators.
Vans uses flat braid and crimp connectors .... but a lot of builders
just bolt them down without cleaning the paint from under the lugs.
I ran a #2 ground wire from the battery to the engine case using
firewall bulkhead connectors (from a race car site). Yes, a little more
weight ...... but should not have any electrical issues.
You're right about the internal batteries though, I have two MGL Odyssey
panels, and each has it's own backup battery ..... same battery used in
most emergency exit lights. Yes, I have to flip a switch to charge
them, and the switches are mounted right next to the panel's power
switch. You do not need another huge battery for today's glass panels
......
Linn
On 7/14/2015 10:50 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> On 07/14/2015 10:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>> Why do you need two batteries?
> Brownout.
>
> With a glass panel, cranking the engine causes the panel to reboot,
> which is a real PITA.
>
> You can either have independent internal batteries for every electronic
> device, or follow the KISS principal and have a single second battery on
> an essential buss to keep everything up and running.
>
> -Dj
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
On 07/14/2015 01:36 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> My only response to 'brownout' while cranking is ..... you might have an
> electrical problem.
Yes, the problem is that the starter load reduces the voltage to the
other electrical devices, causing them to reboot.
This is a well known and much discussed issue. Nothing out of the
ordinary at all.
My setup has two separate grounding cables from the engine to a common
grounding block that passes through the firewall to a "forest of tabs"
on the other side. This is the singular grounding location for the
entire airframe, and nothing uses the airframe itself for grounding.
> You do not need another huge battery for today's glass panels
Exactly. My secondary battery is a small 7ah battery much the same as
used in the emergency exit lights or small UPS. It not only feeds the
two EFIS units, but also the GNS480 and the electronic ignition, so
everything critical has a backup power source.
Rather than having two secondary batteries to maintain like you have, I
just have a single one and it charges automatically via a diode.
Kinda sounds like my system is a bit simpler than yours... *wink*
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
I feel the same as Dj.
I'm going to disconnect from the conversation because these
days I tire of the same old discussions, but, I'll give one
more senario that I like having everything stay up for.
When flying IFR, I've had a bunch of occasions where I
sat in the plane and fired up my primary screen, and
my WSI system, to get a good look at dark storm cells
adjacent to my area. I wanted to check to see what
they were doing and if I could depart and get routed
out of the airport environment without worry.
It takes a few minutes for any weather system to start
putting together the data to get a good display.
So, I have my WSI set up with a small switch to either
use the e-bus or main bus. But on days like that, I like
to have my panel humming, my flight plan entered and
everything all updated as to WX, before I launch. Sometimes
you have to phone call Clearance delivery and they have you
sit tight a bit. It's nice to be able to shut down the
engine and just sit it out, and then fire it back up without
having to re-enter and re-boot everything. Kelly is
just wrong about the EFIS's not rebooting. They can.
There are too many brands and models to make a blanket
statement like that. Mine does. And even if it didn't,
I'd rather have it keep full line voltage. So my
system does what I want it to do. There are also many
different types of starters, that may draw more or less
current. Mine seems to take quite a bit.
For many people I would suggest you check out
TCW Tech's various things like Intelligent power stabilizers
and such. They have great products that can make
all this much easier for you.
It takes a lot off your thinking-plate when worrying
about such things. At any rate as for the way the
electrical system works, I felt I wanted it,
needed it, and could do it, so I did. To each his own.
With that, I'll exit the discussion because with
9+ years of flying behind the system, I'm very happy
with it and it's not going to do me much good to
argue with anyone on it. To me it's just wasted time
that I can never get back.
Tim
On 7/14/2015 12:25 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> On 07/14/2015 12:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
>
> The beauty of experimental aviation is that we each get to choose our
> own priorities. For me, brownout protection is a high priority.
>
>
>> Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts,
>> so brownout is unlikely.
>
> I can confirm that my panel reboots if the secondary battery is not on,
> and several others on here have written similar reports, so I'd actually
> say it seems like brownout is very likely without having a secondary
> power source for the display. In your description you say that you have
> secondary batteries for each of your two EFIS units, which provide the
> same functionality, with a slightly higher maintenance cost but also
> slightly higher redundancy.
>
> That's two different ways to solve the same issues, and I'm sure others
> have other possible solutions as well. The important end result is one
> that each person feels comfortable with, and none of the solutions are
> any more "right" or "wrong" than another.
>
> For me, it is more than just an inconvenience. My flow is to have
> everything powered up, freqs set, checks done, flight plan entered, etc
> and then start the engine.
>
> Once the engine is started, your attention needs to be outside of the
> aircraft, not focused inside on the pretty displays. This is basic
> safety 101.
>
> -Dj
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
Tim, thanks for weighing in before you bailed out .... you raise some
very valid points.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind .... just offering a different
point of view, a result of my experience troubleshooting other peoples
electrical problems. Typically the problems are grounds related. If
you're suffering brown-out problems go to Sky-Tecs troubleshooting page
..... http://www.skytecair.com/Troubleshooting.htm. It may not help
everyone, but it's worth a try.
Linn
On 7/14/2015 2:08 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I feel the same as Dj.
>
> I'm going to disconnect from the conversation because these
> days I tire of the same old discussions, but, I'll give one
> more senario that I like having everything stay up for.
>
> When flying IFR, I've had a bunch of occasions where I
> sat in the plane and fired up my primary screen, and
> my WSI system, to get a good look at dark storm cells
> adjacent to my area. I wanted to check to see what
> they were doing and if I could depart and get routed
> out of the airport environment without worry.
> It takes a few minutes for any weather system to start
> putting together the data to get a good display.
> So, I have my WSI set up with a small switch to either
> use the e-bus or main bus. But on days like that, I like
> to have my panel humming, my flight plan entered and
> everything all updated as to WX, before I launch. Sometimes
> you have to phone call Clearance delivery and they have you
> sit tight a bit. It's nice to be able to shut down the
> engine and just sit it out, and then fire it back up without
> having to re-enter and re-boot everything. Kelly is
> just wrong about the EFIS's not rebooting. They can.
> There are too many brands and models to make a blanket
> statement like that. Mine does. And even if it didn't,
> I'd rather have it keep full line voltage. So my
> system does what I want it to do. There are also many
> different types of starters, that may draw more or less
> current. Mine seems to take quite a bit.
>
> For many people I would suggest you check out
> TCW Tech's various things like Intelligent power stabilizers
> and such. They have great products that can make
> all this much easier for you.
> It takes a lot off your thinking-plate when worrying
> about such things. At any rate as for the way the
> electrical system works, I felt I wanted it,
> needed it, and could do it, so I did. To each his own.
>
> With that, I'll exit the discussion because with
> 9+ years of flying behind the system, I'm very happy
> with it and it's not going to do me much good to
> argue with anyone on it. To me it's just wasted time
> that I can never get back.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 7/14/2015 12:25 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>>
>> On 07/14/2015 12:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>> IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
>>
>> The beauty of experimental aviation is that we each get to choose our
>> own priorities. For me, brownout protection is a high priority.
>>
>>
>>> Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts,
>>> so brownout is unlikely.
>>
>> I can confirm that my panel reboots if the secondary battery is not on,
>> and several others on here have written similar reports, so I'd actually
>> say it seems like brownout is very likely without having a secondary
>> power source for the display. In your description you say that you have
>> secondary batteries for each of your two EFIS units, which provide the
>> same functionality, with a slightly higher maintenance cost but also
>> slightly higher redundancy.
>>
>> That's two different ways to solve the same issues, and I'm sure others
>> have other possible solutions as well. The important end result is one
>> that each person feels comfortable with, and none of the solutions are
>> any more "right" or "wrong" than another.
>>
>> For me, it is more than just an inconvenience. My flow is to have
>> everything powered up, freqs set, checks done, flight plan entered, etc
>> and then start the engine.
>>
>> Once the engine is started, your attention needs to be outside of the
>> aircraft, not focused inside on the pretty displays. This is basic
>> safety 101.
>>
>> -Dj
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 07/14/15
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
No problem Linn,
I do believe in the KISS principle. It usually makes everything
more reliable. In my case, I actually consider it a pretty
simplistic system....it's just a little complex to think
through on the wiring, but the actual connections involved
aren't complicated at all. A couple diodes and a couple
relays and you're set.
Regarding the starter, yeah, you can reduce the brown-out issues,
but I don't think it's practical to think you can always keep
your avionics above, say, 10V, and I know there are components
that can't handle less than 9 or 10V, so rather than worry about
it, IMHO it's better to just deal with it. Even a great
working starter and perfect ground is likely to see a sag that
goes under 10V.
Beyond that, the more battery you put in the plane, the longer
your endurance is if you lose an alternator. And, the longer
you can run ground tests on items. I have people I know who
can't hardly configure their systems to do software updates
because they'll drain their battery too quick. I want to have
a good amount of time for everything. So there are multiple
goals, and no matter what you do there is a compromise.
The key is fully thinking through YOUR situation with YOUR
equipment, and YOUR goals, and then coming up with what
you need. Then you can optimize your system for your plane
and your methods of flying.
I do, however, agree that KISS counts. I constantly have to
try to convince other builders and even people at work
when designing network and system redundancy, that often
times the more components you throw in the harder it is to
guarantee reliability. But there is also a minimum parts
count that works as well.
Tim
On 7/14/2015 1:26 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Tim, thanks for weighing in before you bailed out .... you raise some
> very valid points.
>
> I'm not trying to change anyone's mind .... just offering a different
> point of view, a result of my experience troubleshooting other peoples
> electrical problems. Typically the problems are grounds related. If
> you're suffering brown-out problems go to Sky-Tecs troubleshooting page
> ..... http://www.skytecair.com/Troubleshooting.htm. It may not help
> everyone, but it's worth a try.
> Linn
>
>
> On 7/14/2015 2:08 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I feel the same as Dj.
>>
>> I'm going to disconnect from the conversation because these
>> days I tire of the same old discussions, but, I'll give one
>> more senario that I like having everything stay up for.
>>
>> When flying IFR, I've had a bunch of occasions where I
>> sat in the plane and fired up my primary screen, and
>> my WSI system, to get a good look at dark storm cells
>> adjacent to my area. I wanted to check to see what
>> they were doing and if I could depart and get routed
>> out of the airport environment without worry.
>> It takes a few minutes for any weather system to start
>> putting together the data to get a good display.
>> So, I have my WSI set up with a small switch to either
>> use the e-bus or main bus. But on days like that, I like
>> to have my panel humming, my flight plan entered and
>> everything all updated as to WX, before I launch. Sometimes
>> you have to phone call Clearance delivery and they have you
>> sit tight a bit. It's nice to be able to shut down the
>> engine and just sit it out, and then fire it back up without
>> having to re-enter and re-boot everything. Kelly is
>> just wrong about the EFIS's not rebooting. They can.
>> There are too many brands and models to make a blanket
>> statement like that. Mine does. And even if it didn't,
>> I'd rather have it keep full line voltage. So my
>> system does what I want it to do. There are also many
>> different types of starters, that may draw more or less
>> current. Mine seems to take quite a bit.
>>
>> For many people I would suggest you check out
>> TCW Tech's various things like Intelligent power stabilizers
>> and such. They have great products that can make
>> all this much easier for you.
>> It takes a lot off your thinking-plate when worrying
>> about such things. At any rate as for the way the
>> electrical system works, I felt I wanted it,
>> needed it, and could do it, so I did. To each his own.
>>
>> With that, I'll exit the discussion because with
>> 9+ years of flying behind the system, I'm very happy
>> with it and it's not going to do me much good to
>> argue with anyone on it. To me it's just wasted time
>> that I can never get back.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/2015 12:25 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>>>
>>> On 07/14/2015 12:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>>> IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
>>>
>>> The beauty of experimental aviation is that we each get to choose our
>>> own priorities. For me, brownout protection is a high priority.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts,
>>>> so brownout is unlikely.
>>>
>>> I can confirm that my panel reboots if the secondary battery is not on,
>>> and several others on here have written similar reports, so I'd actually
>>> say it seems like brownout is very likely without having a secondary
>>> power source for the display. In your description you say that you have
>>> secondary batteries for each of your two EFIS units, which provide the
>>> same functionality, with a slightly higher maintenance cost but also
>>> slightly higher redundancy.
>>>
>>> That's two different ways to solve the same issues, and I'm sure others
>>> have other possible solutions as well. The important end result is one
>>> that each person feels comfortable with, and none of the solutions are
>>> any more "right" or "wrong" than another.
>>>
>>> For me, it is more than just an inconvenience. My flow is to have
>>> everything powered up, freqs set, checks done, flight plan entered, etc
>>> and then start the engine.
>>>
>>> Once the engine is started, your attention needs to be outside of the
>>> aircraft, not focused inside on the pretty displays. This is basic
>>> safety 101.
>>>
>>> -Dj
>>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
Tim, and others,
I agree that having one screen up and everything running before engine
start is useful. Dynon Skyview specifically says it will tolerate cranking
with the screen on. I wrongly ass-umed that the other brands would have
adopted similar power supplies by now. Yes, having backup battery
eliminates the cranking problem if the EFIS won't tolerate low voltage.
Most certified avionics these days are designed to comply with latest
DO-160 standard. I believe it calls for tolerating 8-32 volts. Of course
that just means it won't do damage, but may reboot. It has been rather
infrequent for me to operate from an uncontrolled field and go through the
gyrations for IFR clearance/release.
A few systems let you just transfer your flight plan from your Ipad to the
PFD/MFD system to eliminate the extra data entry. Heck, in Aridzona it is a
really rare day for IFR weather that you would want to penetrate with a
single engine piston aircraft.
As always, there is no one right choice for everyone, and experimental lets
s all make our own choices.
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> No problem Linn,
> I do believe in the KISS principle. It usually makes everything
> more reliable. In my case, I actually consider it a pretty
> simplistic system....it's just a little complex to think
> through on the wiring, but the actual connections involved
> aren't complicated at all. A couple diodes and a couple
> relays and you're set.
>
> Regarding the starter, yeah, you can reduce the brown-out issues,
> but I don't think it's practical to think you can always keep
> your avionics above, say, 10V, and I know there are components
> that can't handle less than 9 or 10V, so rather than worry about
> it, IMHO it's better to just deal with it. Even a great
> working starter and perfect ground is likely to see a sag that
> goes under 10V.
>
> Beyond that, the more battery you put in the plane, the longer
> your endurance is if you lose an alternator. And, the longer
> you can run ground tests on items. I have people I know who
> can't hardly configure their systems to do software updates
> because they'll drain their battery too quick. I want to have
> a good amount of time for everything. So there are multiple
> goals, and no matter what you do there is a compromise.
> The key is fully thinking through YOUR situation with YOUR
> equipment, and YOUR goals, and then coming up with what
> you need. Then you can optimize your system for your plane
> and your methods of flying.
>
> I do, however, agree that KISS counts. I constantly have to
> try to convince other builders and even people at work
> when designing network and system redundancy, that often
> times the more components you throw in the harder it is to
> guarantee reliability. But there is also a minimum parts
> count that works as well.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 7/14/2015 1:26 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
>>
>> Tim, thanks for weighing in before you bailed out .... you raise some
>> very valid points.
>>
>> I'm not trying to change anyone's mind .... just offering a different
>> point of view, a result of my experience troubleshooting other peoples
>> electrical problems. Typically the problems are grounds related. If
>> you're suffering brown-out problems go to Sky-Tecs troubleshooting page
>> ..... http://www.skytecair.com/Troubleshooting.htm. It may not help
>> everyone, but it's worth a try.
>> Linn
>>
>>
>> On 7/14/2015 2:08 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I feel the same as Dj.
>>>
>>> I'm going to disconnect from the conversation because these
>>> days I tire of the same old discussions, but, I'll give one
>>> more senario that I like having everything stay up for.
>>>
>>> When flying IFR, I've had a bunch of occasions where I
>>> sat in the plane and fired up my primary screen, and
>>> my WSI system, to get a good look at dark storm cells
>>> adjacent to my area. I wanted to check to see what
>>> they were doing and if I could depart and get routed
>>> out of the airport environment without worry.
>>> It takes a few minutes for any weather system to start
>>> putting together the data to get a good display.
>>> So, I have my WSI set up with a small switch to either
>>> use the e-bus or main bus. But on days like that, I like
>>> to have my panel humming, my flight plan entered and
>>> everything all updated as to WX, before I launch. Sometimes
>>> you have to phone call Clearance delivery and they have you
>>> sit tight a bit. It's nice to be able to shut down the
>>> engine and just sit it out, and then fire it back up without
>>> having to re-enter and re-boot everything. Kelly is
>>> just wrong about the EFIS's not rebooting. They can.
>>> There are too many brands and models to make a blanket
>>> statement like that. Mine does. And even if it didn't,
>>> I'd rather have it keep full line voltage. So my
>>> system does what I want it to do. There are also many
>>> different types of starters, that may draw more or less
>>> current. Mine seems to take quite a bit.
>>>
>>> For many people I would suggest you check out
>>> TCW Tech's various things like Intelligent power stabilizers
>>> and such. They have great products that can make
>>> all this much easier for you.
>>> It takes a lot off your thinking-plate when worrying
>>> about such things. At any rate as for the way the
>>> electrical system works, I felt I wanted it,
>>> needed it, and could do it, so I did. To each his own.
>>>
>>> With that, I'll exit the discussion because with
>>> 9+ years of flying behind the system, I'm very happy
>>> with it and it's not going to do me much good to
>>> argue with anyone on it. To me it's just wasted time
>>> that I can never get back.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/2015 12:25 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07/14/2015 12:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The beauty of experimental aviation is that we each get to choose our
>>>> own priorities. For me, brownout protection is a high priority.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts,
>>>>> so brownout is unlikely.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can confirm that my panel reboots if the secondary battery is not on,
>>>> and several others on here have written similar reports, so I'd actually
>>>> say it seems like brownout is very likely without having a secondary
>>>> power source for the display. In your description you say that you have
>>>> secondary batteries for each of your two EFIS units, which provide the
>>>> same functionality, with a slightly higher maintenance cost but also
>>>> slightly higher redundancy.
>>>>
>>>> That's two different ways to solve the same issues, and I'm sure others
>>>> have other possible solutions as well. The important end result is one
>>>> that each person feels comfortable with, and none of the solutions are
>>>> any more "right" or "wrong" than another.
>>>>
>>>> For me, it is more than just an inconvenience. My flow is to have
>>>> everything powered up, freqs set, checks done, flight plan entered, etc
>>>> and then start the engine.
>>>>
>>>> Once the engine is started, your attention needs to be outside of the
>>>> aircraft, not focused inside on the pretty displays. This is basic
>>>> safety 101.
>>>>
>>>> -Dj
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
Another thought...there are major differences between varying starters,
as to current draw. The Skytec PM models have among the highest draw.
Other designs draw a lot less. Peak may be anywhere from 150 amps to 300
amps.
On 7/14/2015 10:36 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> My only response to 'brownout' while cranking is ..... you might have
> an electrical problem.
> Most likely causes would be using the airframe and #4 jumpers across
> the engine mount isolators.
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
Each person has their choice of justification. I have two batteries because I don't
want brownout to occur and I want a backup starting battery. I have needed
the extra starting battery at times and brownout does occur when the EFIS is
running off of the start battery. It takes a while for everything to boot when
that occurs. I'm not going to take off while the system is booting and in the
summer it can get hot while waiting on everything. Two pc680 weigh about the
same as one Concord, so no bad effects there. Everything works well and it's
what I want. Each person has to decide what works for them .....
Kevin Belue
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 14, 2015, at 11:45 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
> If you expect to fly lots of IFR in areas where widespread IFR is common, that
might be a reason.
> With a glass panel, you only need one panel on for engine start, to monitor oil
pressure, etc.
> Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts, so brownout
is unlikely.
> With a glass panel you either want mechanical gyro backup or at least a backup
battery for the glass panel, by itself. Navigating and communicating can be
done with portable backups. Keeping upright is better done with keeping the EFIS
alive than depending on a portable tablet, etc.
> Or a couple companies offer mini-EFIS that will run for 3-4 hours on batteries,
in case you lose all your electrics. I am very comfortable with my choices
of single electrical system, single battery, with backup battery on each of the
two EFIS, with a Dynon D1 mini-EFIS for backup and tie-breaking.
>
>
> On 7/14/2015 7:50 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>>
>> On 07/14/2015 10:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>> Why do you need two batteries?
>> Brownout.
>>
>> With a glass panel, cranking the engine causes the panel to reboot,
>> which is a real PITA.
>>
>> You can either have independent internal batteries for every electronic
>> device, or follow the KISS principal and have a single second battery on
>> an essential buss to keep everything up and running.
>>
>> -Dj
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery isolation |
What Tim and DJ said. Same here for many of the same reasons.
It really would be good if some would refrain from calling this need
some of us have a 'problem'. It's not. It's a need that can be readily
satisfied a number of ways - moving to AZ is not one of them for this
flyer. (Electron Master Nuckolls excepted; he can 'dis' my 'kitchen
sink' panel all day long since he has been so instrumental in enabling
said 'kitchen sink' - Thanks Again Bob!)
Running the panel, sometimes for extended periods, before engine start
is a very useful thing and something I had established the need for
long before I flew the '10. Sitting in Saratoga with snow falling
waiting for a void time clearance with multiple incoming planes. Worse
case, New Orleans the year after the flood. No terminals in the
temporary FBO structure and the usual coastal cells floating by.
Watching the cells out on the ramp waiting for the gaps to line up
before start up and departure made the case for me.
IFR practicalities - I like to get my departure clearance, translate the
airways on the iPad, then enter in the G430w - all before engine start.
Add in an interupt for a passenger wanting one more shot at the loo and
there goes the battery. Oh, for KISSes sake I don't have an avionics
master or switches for my individual GRT units so my 3 GRTs are powered
on for every start, and the G430 is powered up by choice. They will
brown out in normal ops if a single battery is used.
I did a Z-14 dual batt, dual alt, dual bus installation and love it. Two
680s provide the juice. The buses are run separately except for engine
start. There are simpler configs I guess but when I sketched it out and
found symmetry, everything became simple for me - I was sold.
So, sitting at Osh last year trying to get out when the Breezy crashed.
Airport shutdown, conga lines in all directions. I have to admit I
screwed this one up. Instead of shutting down each time move and came
to an extended shop, I kept the engine running and eventually fouled a
plug. But I could have shut down as needed with the panel humming
along, all information sources online, no need to go to backups. When
I did get out that evening after cleaning the plug, the usual cells were
dancing across the airport and I was given some priority getting out.
Having the weather displayed, flight plan input and everything up and
running was priceless - especially with a friend's 11 and 13 year old
distractors in the back.
The Z-14 is a luxury and not required unless you are building a twin -
but I'd recommend it to anyone who enjoys more bulletproofing.
Bill 'getting psyched to do more flying and less fishing' Watson
On 7/14/2015 2:08 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I feel the same as Dj.
>
> I'm going to disconnect from the conversation because these
> days I tire of the same old discussions, but, I'll give one
> more senario that I like having everything stay up for.
>
> When flying IFR, I've had a bunch of occasions where I
> sat in the plane and fired up my primary screen, and
> my WSI system, to get a good look at dark storm cells
> adjacent to my area. I wanted to check to see what
> they were doing and if I could depart and get routed
> out of the airport environment without worry.
> It takes a few minutes for any weather system to start
> putting together the data to get a good display.
> So, I have my WSI set up with a small switch to either
> use the e-bus or main bus. But on days like that, I like
> to have my panel humming, my flight plan entered and
> everything all updated as to WX, before I launch. Sometimes
> you have to phone call Clearance delivery and they have you
> sit tight a bit. It's nice to be able to shut down the
> engine and just sit it out, and then fire it back up without
> having to re-enter and re-boot everything. Kelly is
> just wrong about the EFIS's not rebooting. They can.
> There are too many brands and models to make a blanket
> statement like that. Mine does. And even if it didn't,
> I'd rather have it keep full line voltage. So my
> system does what I want it to do. There are also many
> different types of starters, that may draw more or less
> current. Mine seems to take quite a bit.
>
> For many people I would suggest you check out
> TCW Tech's various things like Intelligent power stabilizers
> and such. They have great products that can make
> all this much easier for you.
> It takes a lot off your thinking-plate when worrying
> about such things. At any rate as for the way the
> electrical system works, I felt I wanted it,
> needed it, and could do it, so I did. To each his own.
>
> With that, I'll exit the discussion because with
> 9+ years of flying behind the system, I'm very happy
> with it and it's not going to do me much good to
> argue with anyone on it. To me it's just wasted time
> that I can never get back.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 7/14/2015 12:25 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>>
>> On 07/14/2015 12:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>> IMHO, brownout is one of the lowest priority justifications.
>>
>> The beauty of experimental aviation is that we each get to choose our
>> own priorities. For me, brownout protection is a high priority.
>>
>>
>>> Most glass panels today are designed to tolerate down to 8 or 9 volts,
>>> so brownout is unlikely.
>>
>> I can confirm that my panel reboots if the secondary battery is not on,
>> and several others on here have written similar reports, so I'd actually
>> say it seems like brownout is very likely without having a secondary
>> power source for the display. In your description you say that you have
>> secondary batteries for each of your two EFIS units, which provide the
>> same functionality, with a slightly higher maintenance cost but also
>> slightly higher redundancy.
>>
>> That's two different ways to solve the same issues, and I'm sure others
>> have other possible solutions as well. The important end result is one
>> that each person feels comfortable with, and none of the solutions are
>> any more "right" or "wrong" than another.
>>
>> For me, it is more than just an inconvenience. My flow is to have
>> everything powered up, freqs set, checks done, flight plan entered, etc
>> and then start the engine.
>>
>> Once the engine is started, your attention needs to be outside of the
>> aircraft, not focused inside on the pretty displays. This is basic
>> safety 101.
>>
>> -Dj
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 07/14/15
>
>
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Hi
I have a small request for one of the hardy souls present at KOSH for the opening
bell. Specifically, I'd would really appreciate a PIREP on the state of the
HBP area. I am told that things have been very wet this year and would like to
know what is in store on the parking grass.
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444774#444774
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| Subject: | Re: KOSH Request |
It rained the last couple of nights but is supposed to be relatively dry
for the next several days. Ground is still pretty firm. No planes yet in
the Vans part of HBP but a couple of showplaces and several in vintage are
tied down and look good. Worst case, just bring 3 small pieces of plywood
to put under the tires. Just don't forget to pick them up when you leave.
Bob
On Tuesday, July 14, 2015, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
>
> Hi
>
> I have a small request for one of the hardy souls present at KOSH for the
> opening bell. Specifically, I'd would really appreciate a PIREP on the
> state of the HBP area. I am told that things have been very wet this year
> and would like to know what is in store on the parking grass.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444774#444774
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: KOSH Request |
Hi Bob
Thanks for the info. I am glad to hear the ground is still firm. I am told that
there has been a lot of rain in Chicago and I was concerned it meant that KOSH
was getting saturated as well.
I have already stowed my OSB squares for the wheels so I won't risk sinking if
it rains.
Cheers
Les.
[quote="bcondrey"]It rained the last couple of nights but is supposed to be relatively
dry for the next several days. Ground is still pretty firm. No planes
yet in the Vans part of HBP but a couple of showplaces and several in vintage
are tied down and look good. Worst case, just bring 3 small pieces of plywood
to put under the tires. Just don't forget to pick them up when you leave.
Bob
On Tuesday, July 14, 2015, kearney wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I have a small request for one of the hardy souls present at KOSH for the opening
bell. Specifically, I'd would really appreciate a PIREP on the state of
the HBP area. I am told that things have been very wet this year and would like
to know what is in store on the parking grass.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444774#444774 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444774#444774)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444776#444776
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: KOSH Request |
There's even a Beech 18 sitting in Vintage and it's not up to the axles!
Bob
On Tuesday, July 14, 2015, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
>
> Hi Bob
>
> Thanks for the info. I am glad to hear the ground is still firm. I am told
> that there has been a lot of rain in Chicago and I was concerned it meant
> that KOSH was getting saturated as well.
>
> I have already stowed my OSB squares for the wheels so I won't risk
> sinking if it rains.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les.
>
>
> [quote="bcondrey"]It rained the last couple of nights but is supposed to
> be relatively dry for the next several days. Ground is still pretty firm.
> No planes yet in the Vans part of HBP but a couple of showplaces and
> several in vintage are tied down and look good. Worst case, just bring 3
> small pieces of plywood to put under the tires. Just don't forget to pick
> them up when you leave.
>
> Bob
>
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2015, kearney wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > I have a small request for one of the hardy souls present at KOSH for
> the opening bell. Specifically, I'd would really appreciate a PIREP on the
> state of the HBP area. I am told that things have been very wet this year
> and would like to know what is in store on the parking grass.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444774#444774 (
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444774#444774)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
> > FORUMS -
> > _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > b Site -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> > [b]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444776#444776
>
>
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