Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:43 AM - Re: Brake broke (Bill Watson)
2. 12:06 PM - Declared Emergency (Jeff Carpenter)
3. 12:44 PM - Re: Brake broke (Berck E. Nash)
4. 03:54 PM - Brake broke (David Saylor)
5. 04:39 PM - Re: Declared Emergency (Bill Watson)
6. 05:01 PM - Re: Declared Emergency (Ben)
7. 05:12 PM - Re: Declared Emergency (Justin Jones)
8. 05:58 PM - Re: Brake broke (Jesse Saint)
9. 06:17 PM - Re: Declared Emergency (Jack Philips)
10. 07:54 PM - Re: Declared Emergency (Berck E. Nash)
11. 10:33 PM - Re: Declared Emergency (David Saylor)
Message 1
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Doing it the way tail draggers might do it makes sense to me but my
interpretation is a bit different.
Having moved from flying the Maule one day (actually 7 days/ week for a
2 months) to the '10 the next, I was all about rudder versus
differential braking. For me that means constant rudder wagging. On
grass it's stop to stop, on pavement it actually takes more
concentration because it turns so easily with a xwind. But in both
cases I try to keep it straight with minimal braking. Actual turns
require braking.
On the other hand, on pavement it often just rolls to fast. I never do
a constant application of the brakes but tend to let the speed build
then slow it way down and start over. Slow-fast-slow-fast etc.
I got really long wear out of my brakes the first 3 years so by that
measure it seems to work.
Bill "declared my first emergency today" Watson
On 7/22/2015 8:55 PM, David Saylor wrote:
> Thanks folks.
>
> Jesse, I wish I'd read your post before I pulled the caliper.
>
> I had an enlightening conversation with Robbie Grove who explained the
> required technique to me. Basically I learned I need to taxi kind of
> like s-turning a tail dragger. Drift downwind (across the
> taxiway) without any brakes, then just enough brake to get pointed to
> the other side, and repeat as necessary. The brakes cool between steers.
>
> If anyone can explain it better, please do.
>
> Today I replaced the pads and the piston oring. Bled the brakes and
> all seems well. Should be good for enough for a few landings to get
> home, where I'll replace the disc and consider my upgrade options.
> Even Cleveland says the brakes are undersized.
>
> EAA helped a LOT with everything I needed to make the repair. The
> aircraft repair barn is well stocked with tools and supplies.
>
> Again thanks for the input.
>
> --Dave
>
> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com
> <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>> wrote:
>
> As Coop said, it's more about technique than the brake kit, but
> the Matco has double pads and should last longer. It most likely
> just boiled the fluid and will harden back up when it cools down.
> I wouldn't do anything for right now until you verify that. If it
> firms up and you don't get a puddle by the brake, then you should
> be good to go. When you get home you could replace pads and maybe
> caliper.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> 352-427-0285
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jesse@saintaviation.com');>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 21, 2015, at 3:19 PM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','saylor.dave@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> We landed at OSH around noon. We landed 27 in a strong crosswind
>> then taxied pretty far to the east, riding the brake as
>> necessary. I guess my technique needs work because I think the
>> right one overheated. By the time we got to HBP it was mushy,
>> then a few seconds later it went to the floor. I stopped on the
>> taxiway with the other brake. EAA tied us down on the cement at
>> the end of P for repairs.
>>
>> I pulled the wheel pant and peeked under the cowl. The only sign
>> of any loose fluid is out the top of the reservoir--quite a bit
>> really. No leaks in the cabin. And the disc looks really bad,
>> very scored and worn. The pads still have meat but they look sort
>> of like the edges have chipped off. Maybe from heat.
>>
>> I replaced the right caliper a few years ago after it stranded us
>> due to leaking. A new oring didn't help. Same brake again.
>>
>> Now I'm considering something other than Cleveland. Any suggestions?
>>
>> --Dave
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Declared Emergency |
Do tell Bill...
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Jul 23, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
> Doing it the way tail draggers might do it makes sense to me but my
interpretation is a bit different.
>
> Having moved from flying the Maule one day (actually 7 days/ week for
a 2 months) to the '10 the next, I was all about rudder versus
differential braking. For me that means constant rudder wagging. On
grass it's stop to stop, on pavement it actually takes more
concentration because it turns so easily with a xwind. But in
both cases I try to keep it straight with minimal braking. Actual turns
require braking.
>
> On the other hand, on pavement it often just rolls to fast. I never
do a constant application of the brakes but tend to let the speed build
then slow it way down and start over. Slow-fast-slow-fast etc.
>
> I got really long wear out of my brakes the first 3 years so by that
measure it seems to work.
>
> Bill "declared my first emergency today" Watson
>
> On 7/22/2015 8:55 PM, David Saylor wrote:
>> Thanks folks.
>>
>> Jesse, I wish I'd read your post before I pulled the caliper.
>>
>> I had an enlightening conversation with Robbie Grove who explained
the required technique to me. Basically I learned I need to taxi kind of
like s-turning a tail dragger. Drift downwind (across the taxiway)
without any brakes, then just enough brake to get pointed to the other
side, and repeat as necessary. The brakes cool between steers.
>>
>> If anyone can explain it better, please do.
>>
>> Today I replaced the pads and the piston oring. Bled the brakes and
all seems well. Should be good for enough for a few landings to get
home, where I'll replace the disc and consider my upgrade options. Even
Cleveland says the brakes are undersized.
>>
>> EAA helped a LOT with everything I needed to make the repair. The
aircraft repair barn is well stocked with tools and supplies.
>>
>> Again thanks for the input.
>>
>> --Dave
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
wrote:
>> As Coop said, it's more about technique than the brake kit, but the
Matco has double pads and should last longer. It most likely just boiled
the fluid and will harden back up when it cools down. I wouldn't do
anything for right now until you verify that. If it firms up and you
don't get a puddle by the brake, then you should be good to go. When you
get home you could replace pads and maybe caliper.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> 352-427-0285
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 3:19 PM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> We landed at OSH around noon. We landed 27 in a strong crosswind
then taxied pretty far to the east, riding the brake as necessary. I
guess my technique needs work because I think the right one overheated.
By the time we got to HBP it was mushy, then a few seconds later it went
to the floor. I stopped on the taxiway with the other brake. EAA tied
us down on the cement at the end of P for repairs.
>>>
>>> I pulled the wheel pant and peeked under the cowl. The only sign of
any loose fluid is out the top of the reservoir--quite a bit really. No
leaks in the cabin. And the disc looks really bad, very scored and worn.
The pads still have meat but they look sort of like the edges have
chipped off. Maybe from heat.
>>>
>>> I replaced the right caliper a few years ago after it stranded us
due to leaking. A new oring didn't help. Same brake again.
>>>
>>> Now I'm considering something other than Cleveland. Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> --Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Date: 07/19/15
>>
>
>
>
>
Westcott Press
1121 Isabel Street
Burbank, CA 91506
jeff@westcottpress.com
818-861-7300
Message 3
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I don't have any real time in an RV-10, but I have taxied one briefly, and
it taxies very similar to other castering nosewheel aircraft I've flown.
After teaching a few hundred air force cadets to fly a DA-20, I can state
that most people naturally do it wrong. It's very tempting to control the
direction of the airplane exclusively with the brakes, but in most cases
you should not need the brakes when taxiing in a straight line. The rudder
has more authority than you think it does, but you need to be quick on your
feet, and not hesitate to use full rudder. The best way to save your
brakes is to make sure you're never touching the brakes to turn unless you
already have the rudder to the stop in that direction. I find that keeping
the plane straight requires frequent, large applications of rudder applied
as soon as the aircraft heads the wrong direction, but can be done in most
conditions without any use of the brakes. If you find that you need to
drag the brakes in order to taxi in a straight line, I suspect that you're
not using all the rudder available. Note that you'll also get more rudder
authority if you're positioning the ailerons correctly for wind direction.
Now, in a 20 knot xwind, you probably need brakes, but 10 knots should be
no big deal. If you do need brakes, do not drag them. Light, continuous
brake actuation creates a lot more heat than brief, moderate application.
If you need to drag the brakes, don't. Hold full rudder in the direction
you need, and tap the brakes moderately and briefly as necessary to point
the plane back downwind, let it weathervane back (while still holding full
rudder), then tap it again to overcorrect back toward center and repeat.
Note that I have no experience about what's necessary on grass, but I
wouldn't think it would be much different.
Hope this helps,
Berck
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Doing it the way tail draggers might do it makes sense to me but my
> interpretation is a bit different.
>
> Having moved from flying the Maule one day (actually 7 days/ week for a 2
> months) to the '10 the next, I was all about rudder versus differential
> braking. For me that means constant rudder wagging. On grass it's stop to
> stop, on pavement it actually takes more concentration because it turns so
> easily with a xwind. But in both cases I try to keep it straight with
> minimal braking. Actual turns require braking.
>
> On the other hand, on pavement it often just rolls to fast. I never do a
> constant application of the brakes but tend to let the speed build then
> slow it way down and start over. Slow-fast-slow-fast etc.
>
> I got really long wear out of my brakes the first 3 years so by that
> measure it seems to work.
>
> Bill "declared my first emergency today" Watson
>
>
> On 7/22/2015 8:55 PM, David Saylor wrote:
>
> Thanks folks.
>
> Jesse, I wish I'd read your post before I pulled the caliper.
>
> I had an enlightening conversation with Robbie Grove who explained the
> required technique to me. Basically I learned I need to taxi kind of like
> s-turning a tail dragger. Drift downwind (across the taxiway) without any
> brakes, then just enough brake to get pointed to the other side, and repeat
> as necessary. The brakes cool between steers.
>
> If anyone can explain it better, please do.
>
> Today I replaced the pads and the piston oring. Bled the brakes and all
> seems well. Should be good for enough for a few landings to get home, where
> I'll replace the disc and consider my upgrade options. Even Cleveland says
> the brakes are undersized.
>
> EAA helped a LOT with everything I needed to make the repair. The
> aircraft repair barn is well stocked with tools and supplies.
>
> Again thanks for the input.
>
> --Dave
>
> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
>> As Coop said, it's more about technique than the brake kit, but the
>> Matco has double pads and should last longer. It most likely just boiled
>> the fluid and will harden back up when it cools down. I wouldn't do
>> anything for right now until you verify that. If it firms up and you don't
>> get a puddle by the brake, then you should be good to go. When you get home
>> you could replace pads and maybe caliper.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> 352-427-0285
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 3:19 PM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> We landed at OSH around noon. We landed 27 in a strong crosswind then
>> taxied pretty far to the east, riding the brake as necessary. I guess my
>> technique needs work because I think the right one overheated. By the time
>> we got to HBP it was mushy, then a few seconds later it went to the floor.
>> I stopped on the taxiway with the other brake. EAA tied us down on the
>> cement at the end of P for repairs.
>>
>> I pulled the wheel pant and peeked under the cowl. The only sign of
>> any loose fluid is out the top of the reservoir--quite a bit really. No
>> leaks in the cabin. And the disc looks really bad, very scored and worn.
>> The pads still have meat but they look sort of like the edges have
>> chipped off. Maybe from heat.
>>
>> I replaced the right caliper a few years ago after it stranded us due
>> to leaking. A new oring didn't help. Same brake again.
>>
>> Now I'm considering something other than Cleveland. Any suggestions?
>>
>> --Dave
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Date: 07/19/15
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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Bill and Berck, thank you, your descriptions are what I'm hearing elsewhere
too. It's funny how a specific situation can be so rare ( for me) and
also so common. I'm approaching 1000 hours in the 10 but the long xwind
taxi just never came up. Can't wait to try it again.
And Bill, you know you can't just leave it at that...
--Dave
On Thursday, July 23, 2015, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Mauledriver@nc.rr.com');>> wrote:
> Doing it the way tail draggers might do it makes sense to me but my
> interpretation is a bit different.
>
> Having moved from flying the Maule one day (actually 7 days/ week for a 2
> months) to the '10 the next, I was all about rudder versus differential
> braking. For me that means constant rudder wagging. On grass it's stop to
> stop, on pavement it actually takes more concentration because it turns so
> easily with a xwind. But in both cases I try to keep it straight with
> minimal braking. Actual turns require braking.
>
> On the other hand, on pavement it often just rolls to fast. I never do a
> constant application of the brakes but tend to let the speed build then
> slow it way down and start over. Slow-fast-slow-fast etc.
>
> I got really long wear out of my brakes the first 3 years so by that
> measure it seems to work.
>
> Bill "declared my first emergency today" Watson
>
> On 7/22/2015 8:55 PM, David Saylor wrote:
>
> Thanks folks.
>
> Jesse, I wish I'd read your post before I pulled the caliper.
>
> I had an enlightening conversation with Robbie Grove who explained the
> required technique to me. Basically I learned I need to taxi kind of like
> s-turning a tail dragger. Drift downwind (across the taxiway) without any
> brakes, then just enough brake to get pointed to the other side, and repeat
> as necessary. The brakes cool between steers.
>
> If anyone can explain it better, please do.
>
> Today I replaced the pads and the piston oring. Bled the brakes and all
> seems well. Should be good for enough for a few landings to get home, where
> I'll replace the disc and consider my upgrade options. Even Cleveland says
> the brakes are undersized.
>
> EAA helped a LOT with everything I needed to make the repair. The
> aircraft repair barn is well stocked with tools and supplies.
>
> Again thanks for the input.
>
> --Dave
>
> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
>> As Coop said, it's more about technique than the brake kit, but the
>> Matco has double pads and should last longer. It most likely just boiled
>> the fluid and will harden back up when it cools down. I wouldn't do
>> anything for right now until you verify that. If it firms up and you don't
>> get a puddle by the brake, then you should be good to go. When you get home
>> you could replace pads and maybe caliper.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> 352-427-0285
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 3:19 PM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> We landed at OSH around noon. We landed 27 in a strong crosswind then
>> taxied pretty far to the east, riding the brake as necessary. I guess my
>> technique needs work because I think the right one overheated. By the time
>> we got to HBP it was mushy, then a few seconds later it went to the floor.
>> I stopped on the taxiway with the other brake. EAA tied us down on the
>> cement at the end of P for repairs.
>>
>> I pulled the wheel pant and peeked under the cowl. The only sign of
>> any loose fluid is out the top of the reservoir--quite a bit really. No
>> leaks in the cabin. And the disc looks really bad, very scored and worn.
>> The pads still have meat but they look sort of like the edges have
>> chipped off. Maybe from heat.
>>
>> I replaced the right caliper a few years ago after it stranded us due
>> to leaking. A new oring didn't help. Same brake again.
>>
>> Now I'm considering something other than Cleveland. Any suggestions?
>>
>> --Dave
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Date: 07/19/15
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Declared Emergency |
Yes, so today I had what I think was my first in-flight problem with my
'10 and it resulted in a declared emergency and precautionary landing.
No big deal but an interesting experience.
Flying home this morning from Pittsburgh to Durham NC, we had entered
IMC conditions as we approached a wad of early morning cells. I
requested a climb and a deviation in an effort to find VMC before
getting too close to the cells. In the ever continuing effort to
maintain hand flying skills with an extremely capable 2 axis autopilot,
I decided to hand fly the plane and enjoy the challenge of flying to
standard in light convective chop.
Flightaware Information
<http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N215TG/history/20150723/1215Z/KAGC/KLYH#>
At one point I decided to let Tiger fly it for awhile so I could figure
out my next move. Tiger immediately began a diving turn so I switched
him off and resumed hand flying. Figuring that I had missed one of the
buttons during my transition, I did another Direct-to and made sure I
was exactly on altitude before giving it back to Tiger. Tiger performed
another diving altitude excursion.
Both excursions exceeded 200' but they were not called out by ATC (nor
are they visible in the Flightaware track). It took a minute or two to
figure out what the problem was; I had lost an accurate airspeed indication.
This is not a particularly big problem other then it rendered my
autopilot unusable (I have not yet explored whether or how my Trutrak
unit could have been used in some degraded mode without a good airspeed
indication).
I told ATC that I had a problem with my airspeed indicator and I
requested vectors and a descent to VMC and a landing. I was given a
turn and a descent by the controller and was asked whether I was
declaring an emergency. I said "yes". Very quickly a more sure voiced
controller took over and directed me to lovely Lynchburg Regional. I
broke out into hazy VMC at 5,000' over familiar territory. I fly over
Lynchburg on many trips but hoped to never have to land there.
During the steep straight-in approach to Runway 4 I noted that both my
GRT EFIS with dual AHRS and the backup airspeed indicator were giving
erroneous readings. Since they only share the pitot feed upstream of
the dual AHRS connection, problem determination should be simple and is
likely water. I'll let you all know what I find.
Some thoughts:
* I'm lucky and glad that the failure occurred while hand flying. If
Tiger had been flying, it could have been much more confusing.
Having said that, Tiger does 99% of my flying.
* Declaring an emergency, even if done reluctantly, clears the mind
along with the airspace. Loss of airspeed in IMC is no big deal
but once detected, it's nice to be able to focus on flying the plane
without other distractions (once you answer the standard 'souls on
board' and 'fuel' questions)
* I recall a few discussions regarding the '10's mechanical stall
warning system. Mine is in place and operational. It was a comfort
knowing it was there as a backstop during my approach and landing.
I'm glad I put it in.
* Darn the '10 is a sweet plane!!
That's it so far. Need to go fill out an ASRS report.
> Bill "declared my first emergency today" Watson
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Declared Emergency |
Good job buddy....... Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Declared Emergency
Yes, so today I had what I think was my first in-flight problem with my
'10 and it resulted in a declared emergency and precautionary landing.
No big deal but an interesting experience.
Flying home this morning from Pittsburgh to Durham NC, we had entered I
MC conditions as we approached a wad of early morning cells. I requeste
d a climb and a deviation in an effort to find VMC before getting too c
lose to the cells. In the ever continuing effort to maintain hand flyi
ng skills with an extremely capable 2 axis autopilot, I decided to hand
fly the plane and enjoy the challenge of flying to standard in light con
vective chop.
Flightaware Information
At one point I decided to let Tiger fly it for awhile so I could figure
out my next move. Tiger immediately began a diving turn so I switched
him off and resumed hand flying. Figuring that I had missed one of the b
uttons during my transition, I did another Direct-to and made sure I was
exactly on altitude before giving it back to Tiger. Tiger performed an
other diving altitude excursion.
Both excursions exceeded 200' but they were not called out by ATC (nor
are they visible in the Flightaware track). It took a minute or two to
figure out what the problem was; I had lost an accurate airspeed indica
tion.
This is not a particularly big problem other then it rendered my autopi
lot unusable (I have not yet explored whether or how my Trutrak unit cou
ld have been used in some degraded mode without a good airspeed indicati
on).
I told ATC that I had a problem with my airspeed indicator and I reques
ted vectors and a descent to VMC and a landing. I was given a turn and
a descent by the controller and was asked whether I was declaring an eme
rgency. I said "yes". Very quickly a more sure voiced controller took
over and directed me to lovely Lynchburg Regional. I broke out into haz
y VMC at 5,000' over familiar territory. I fly over Lynchburg on many t
rips but hoped to never have to land there.
During the steep straight-in approach to Runway 4 I noted that both my
GRT EFIS with dual AHRS and the backup airspeed indicator were giving er
roneous readings. Since they only share the pitot feed upstream of the
dual AHRS connection, problem determination should be simple and is like
ly water. I'll let you all know what I find.
Some thoughts:
I'm lucky and glad that the failure occurred while hand flying. If Tige
r had been flying, it could have been much more confusing. Having said
that, Tiger does 99% of my flying.
Declaring an emergency, even if done reluctantly, clears the mind along
with the airspace. Loss of airspeed in IMC is no big deal but once det
ected, it's nice to be able to focus on flying the plane without other d
istractions (once you answer the standard 'souls on board' and 'fuel' qu
estions)
I recall a few discussions regarding the '10's mechanical stall warning
system. Mine is in place and operational. It was a comfort knowing it
was there as a backstop during my approach and landing. I'm glad I put
it in.
Darn the '10 is a sweet plane!!
That's it so far. Need to go fill out an ASRS report.Bill "declared my
first emergency today" Watson
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
=======
____________________________________________________________
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Declared Emergency |
This brings up a great point and an excellent technique. During flight testi
ng or at any point, it is a good idea to establish and have known pitch and p
ower settings for different configurations and phases of flight. For instanc
e, if you know that 2400 RPM, 18" of manifold pressure and 2 degrees nose hi
gh will give you 100 kts with flaps up, and that a notch of flaps, 15" manif
old pressure and 1 degree nose low will give you a 600 fpm descent rate at 1
00 kts, you have an target to shoot for and it can help to keep you alive du
ring these kinds of emergencies (no airspeed indication) where you can not r
e-enter vmc flight.
The Air Force, the Navy, civilian King Air medevac companies, and even my cu
rrent job flying 747s all taught this concept of flying. Know your pitch and
power settings and watch how easy flying becomes.
Justin
> On Jul 23, 2015, at 19:36, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, so today I had what I think was my first in-flight problem with my '1
0 and it resulted in a declared emergency and precautionary landing. No big
deal but an interesting experience.
>
> Flying home this morning from Pittsburgh to Durham NC, we had entered IMC c
onditions as we approached a wad of early morning cells. I requested a clim
b and a deviation in an effort to find VMC before getting too close to the c
ells. In the ever continuing effort to maintain hand flying skills with an
extremely capable 2 axis autopilot, I decided to hand fly the plane and enj
oy the challenge of flying to standard in light convective chop.
> Flightaware Information
>
> At one point I decided to let Tiger fly it for awhile so I could figure ou
t my next move. Tiger immediately began a diving turn so I switched him off
and resumed hand flying. Figuring that I had missed one of the buttons duri
ng my transition, I did another Direct-to and made sure I was exactly on alt
itude before giving it back to Tiger. Tiger performed another diving altitu
de excursion.
>
> Both excursions exceeded 200' but they were not called out by ATC (nor ar
e they visible in the Flightaware track). It took a minute or two to figure
out what the problem was; I had lost an accurate airspeed indication.
>
> This is not a particularly big problem other then it rendered my autopilot
unusable (I have not yet explored whether or how my Trutrak unit could have
been used in some degraded mode without a good airspeed indication).
>
> I told ATC that I had a problem with my airspeed indicator and I requested
vectors and a descent to VMC and a landing. I was given a turn and a desce
nt by the controller and was asked whether I was declaring an emergency. I s
aid "yes". Very quickly a more sure voiced controller took over and directe
d me to lovely Lynchburg Regional. I broke out into hazy VMC at 5,000' over
familiar territory. I fly over Lynchburg on many trips but hoped to never h
ave to land there.
>
> During the steep straight-in approach to Runway 4 I noted that both my GRT
EFIS with dual AHRS and the backup airspeed indicator were giving erroneous
readings. Since they only share the pitot feed upstream of the dual AHRS c
onnection, problem determination should be simple and is likely water. I'll
let you all know what I find.
>
> Some thoughts:
> I'm lucky and glad that the failure occurred while hand flying. If Tiger h
ad been flying, it could have been much more confusing. Having said that, T
iger does 99% of my flying.
> Declaring an emergency, even if done reluctantly, clears the mind along wi
th the airspace. Loss of airspeed in IMC is no big deal but once detected,
it's nice to be able to focus on flying the plane without other distraction
s (once you answer the standard 'souls on board' and 'fuel' questions)
> I recall a few discussions regarding the '10's mechanical stall warning sy
stem. Mine is in place and operational. It was a comfort knowing it was th
ere as a backstop during my approach and landing. I'm glad I put it in.
> Darn the '10 is a sweet plane!!
> That's it so far. Need to go fill out an ASRS report.
>> Bill "declared my first emergency today" Watson
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 8
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"The rudder has more authority than you think it does, but you need to be quick
on your feet, and not hesitate to use full rudder. The best way to save your
brakes is to make sure you're never touching the brakes to turn unless you already
have the rudder to the stop in that direction."
Exactly. Heals on the floor, full rudder deflection, a little bit of toe pressure
as needed. No more than 1,000 rpm on hard surface for taxi. Pump brakes to
slow down or stop.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 23, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The rudder has more authority than you think it does, but you need to be quick
on your feet, and not hesitate to use full rudder. The best way to save your
brakes is to make sure you're never touching the brakes to turn unless you already
have the rudder to the stop in that direction.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Declared Emergency |
Very interesting. Do you by chance have ForeFlight on your i-Pad with a
Stratus 2s? One reason I bought that setup was to give me a set of backup
instruments in case everything else went south (the Stratus 2s has a built
in AHRS). Of course it would be referencing the GPS and reading
groundspeed, not airspeed, but it should be close.
I've always found the folks at KLYH Tower to be friendly and courteous.
Glad they could help you.
Jack Phillips
#40610 - Fuselage and finally getting back to work on my RV-10 after a
3-year hiatus
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Declared Emergency
Yes, so today I had what I think was my first in-flight problem with my '10
and it resulted in a declared emergency and precautionary landing. No big
deal but an interesting experience.
Flying home this morning from Pittsburgh to Durham NC, we had entered IMC
conditions as we approached a wad of early morning cells. I requested a
climb and a deviation in an effort to find VMC before getting too close to
the cells. In the ever continuing effort to maintain hand flying skills
with an extremely capable 2 axis autopilot, I decided to hand fly the plane
and enjoy the challenge of flying to standard in light convective chop.
Flightaware Information
<http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N215TG/history/20150723/1215Z/KAGC/KLYH>
At one point I decided to let Tiger fly it for awhile so I could figure out
my next move. Tiger immediately began a diving turn so I switched him off
and resumed hand flying. Figuring that I had missed one of the buttons
during my transition, I did another Direct-to and made sure I was exactly on
altitude before giving it back to Tiger. Tiger performed another diving
altitude excursion.
Both excursions exceeded 200' but they were not called out by ATC (nor are
they visible in the Flightaware track). It took a minute or two to figure
out what the problem was; I had lost an accurate airspeed indication.
This is not a particularly big problem other then it rendered my autopilot
unusable (I have not yet explored whether or how my Trutrak unit could have
been used in some degraded mode without a good airspeed indication).
I told ATC that I had a problem with my airspeed indicator and I requested
vectors and a descent to VMC and a landing. I was given a turn and a
descent by the controller and was asked whether I was declaring an
emergency. I said "yes". Very quickly a more sure voiced controller took
over and directed me to lovely Lynchburg Regional. I broke out into hazy
VMC at 5,000' over familiar territory. I fly over Lynchburg on many trips
but hoped to never have to land there.
During the steep straight-in approach to Runway 4 I noted that both my GRT
EFIS with dual AHRS and the backup airspeed indicator were giving erroneous
readings. Since they only share the pitot feed upstream of the dual AHRS
connection, problem determination should be simple and is likely water.
I'll let you all know what I find.
Some thoughts:
* I'm lucky and glad that the failure occurred while hand flying. If
Tiger had been flying, it could have been much more confusing. Having said
that, Tiger does 99% of my flying.
* Declaring an emergency, even if done reluctantly, clears the mind
along with the airspace. Loss of airspeed in IMC is no big deal but once
detected, it's nice to be able to focus on flying the plane without other
distractions (once you answer the standard 'souls on board' and 'fuel'
questions)
* I recall a few discussions regarding the '10's mechanical stall
warning system. Mine is in place and operational. It was a comfort knowing
it was there as a backstop during my approach and landing. I'm glad I put
it in.
* Darn the '10 is a sweet plane!!
That's it so far. Need to go fill out an ASRS report.
Bill "declared my first emergency today" Watson
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Declared Emergency |
On 07/23/2015 05:36 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
> During the steep straight-in approach to Runway 4 I noted that both my
> GRT EFIS with dual AHRS and the backup airspeed indicator were giving
> erroneous readings. Since they only share the pitot feed upstream of
> the dual AHRS connection, problem determination should be simple and is
> likely water. I'll let you all know what I find.
First, kudos on analyzing the situation, taking appropriate action and
getting the aircraft back on the ground in one piece. An incorrect
airspeed indication in IMC has killed lots of folks. (Air France
407...) Excellent job not becoming the most recent; I hope if I ever
find myself in the same situation I perform as well as you did. Now for
some questions...
I assume they also share a static line? I'm a little confused about why
the autopilot would use airspeed to hold altitude? I, admittedly, know
nothing about how autopilots work, but it seems like if I were
programming an autopilot I'd have it track a pressure a altitude to hold
an altitude.
I have flown a plane with a blocked static line... (Instrument
instructor stuck tape over the single static port without telling me.)
It was a good experience. First thing I noticed was not the sluggish
altimeter on climbout, but rather the decreasing airspeed indication
while maintaining a pitch attitude and power setting in a 172 that
should have resulted in a climb. I eventually deduced pitot/static
system failure, switched to alternate static source, and there was no
change. The failure of the alternate static source to fix the problem
was never adequately explained to me, and surprised the hell out of my
instructor.
After I leveled off, the static system leaked to the right altitude and
all appeared normal until I tried to descend, at which point the
airspeed indicator quickly read about 100 knots fast. I landed by
taking off my foggles and looking outside the airplane using pitch/power
and erring on the side of landing fast on a long runway. Had it been
IMC, I don't know how well it would have gone.
Anyway, I mention all this to say... are you sure it isn't a static line
with partial blockage?
Berck
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Declared Emergency |
Bill, I'm happy for your happy ending. Good job flying the airplane. I've
seen one RV with a soggy pitot. It behaved as you described.
Always looKing forward to more of your sigs,
--Dave
On Thursday, July 23, 2015, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Yes, so today I had what I think was my first in-flight problem with my
> '10 and it resulted in a declared emergency and precautionary landing. No
> big deal but an interesting experience.
>
> Flying home this morning from Pittsburgh to Durham NC, we had entered IMC
> conditions as we approached a wad of early morning cells. I requested a
> climb and a deviation in an effort to find VMC before getting too close to
> the cells. In the ever continuing effort to maintain hand flying skills
> with an extremely capable 2 axis autopilot, I decided to hand fly the plane
> and enjoy the challenge of flying to standard in light convective chop.
> Flightaware Information
> <http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N215TG/history/20150723/1215Z/KAGC/KLYH#>
>
> At one point I decided to let Tiger fly it for awhile so I could figure
> out my next move. Tiger immediately began a diving turn so I switched him
> off and resumed hand flying. Figuring that I had missed one of the buttons
> during my transition, I did another Direct-to and made sure I was exactly
> on altitude before giving it back to Tiger. Tiger performed another diving
> altitude excursion.
>
> Both excursions exceeded 200' but they were not called out by ATC (nor
> are they visible in the Flightaware track). It took a minute or two to
> figure out what the problem was; I had lost an accurate airspeed indication.
>
> This is not a particularly big problem other then it rendered my autopilot
> unusable (I have not yet explored whether or how my Trutrak unit could have
> been used in some degraded mode without a good airspeed indication).
>
> I told ATC that I had a problem with my airspeed indicator and I requested
> vectors and a descent to VMC and a landing. I was given a turn and a
> descent by the controller and was asked whether I was declaring an
> emergency. I said "yes". Very quickly a more sure voiced controller took
> over and directed me to lovely Lynchburg Regional. I broke out into hazy
> VMC at 5,000' over familiar territory. I fly over Lynchburg on many trips
> but hoped to never have to land there.
>
> During the steep straight-in approach to Runway 4 I noted that both my GRT
> EFIS with dual AHRS and the backup airspeed indicator were giving erroneous
> readings. Since they only share the pitot feed upstream of the dual AHRS
> connection, problem determination should be simple and is likely water.
> I'll let you all know what I find.
>
> Some thoughts:
>
> - I'm lucky and glad that the failure occurred while hand flying. If
> Tiger had been flying, it could have been much more confusing. Having said
> that, Tiger does 99% of my flying.
> - Declaring an emergency, even if done reluctantly, clears the mind
> along with the airspace. Loss of airspeed in IMC is no big deal but once
> detected, it's nice to be able to focus on flying the plane without other
> distractions (once you answer the standard 'souls on board' and 'fuel'
> questions)
> - I recall a few discussions regarding the '10's mechanical stall
> warning system. Mine is in place and operational. It was a comfort
> knowing it was there as a backstop during my approach and landing. I'm
> glad I put it in.
> - Darn the '10 is a sweet plane!!
>
> That's it so far. Need to go fill out an ASRS report.
>
> Bill "declared my first emergency today" Watson
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
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