Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:11 AM - Re: Signs of corrosion on tail cone (John Cox)
2. 07:42 AM - Re: Signs of corrosion on tail cone (Kelly McMullen)
3. 08:13 AM - Re: Signs of corrosion on tail cone (John Cox)
4. 08:30 AM - Re: Signs of corrosion on tail cone (Kelly McMullen)
5. 11:53 AM - Re: Crack with Door Latch Fit (Bruce Johnson)
6. 02:33 PM - RV10 fork and wheel (David)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Signs of corrosion on tail cone |
#1 Surface preparation. Many on this list talk of Acetone or Alcohol
cleaning. Aluminum begins Aluminum Oxide within an hour of
scotchbrighting. Doing the work in a high humidity environment or an area
under the influence of Salt vapor can impact the surface prep in short
order. Correction: do an evaporation test of the solvent used on a piece
of clear glass and see if after evaporation, deposits form. Prime within
15 minutes of scotchbrighting never hours or days.
#2 Galvanic action by use of the airframe as the ground path from adjacent
electrical circuits is another. Run a separate return path from lighting
components forward to a more substantial frame member not in contact with
exterior skin if using single wire power runs.
#3 Use of chemicals which promotes Hydrolysis. The old Simple Green before
they reformulated Aviation grade was notorious. Wicking action is best
reduced by wet sealing the two skins with a roller of thin proseal. RTV is
not a cure all.
#4 "Faying action" between two close sheet metal items attached together
wick most alkaline cleaners into the joints mentioned. Clear rinse the
joints with de-ionized water and pay particular attention to the areas
showing signs. Oxidation once started must be removed. The cause
corrected and the treated skin recoated with an Alodine or similar
treatment. It is remotely possible the primer had some impact on the
outcome.
Least desireable Corrective Action: remove the skin and treat before the
corrosion reaches 10% in skin depth.
Note: Cessna had a very large batch of aircraft twenty years ago with
Filiform corrosion which showed YEARS later. The research found they were
parking the prepped aircraft outside overnight provided Acid Rain vapor to
condense on the material. The skin was dry and "Clean" but the acid
residual began working between the skin and final coats - after
application. Only solution, soda blast, properly reprep the surface and
reapply a corrective topcoat.
The type of corrosion found helps determine the cause and corrective
action. Just shooting blind on a sensitive issue. Good Luck with the
solution.
John C.
#40600
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, but I build the tailcone. No relationship between the two I would
> think.
>
> On 7/29/2015 6:11 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
>> carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>
>> Is this a quick build?
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 29, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm beginning to see signs of corrosion between the top skin and the
>>> side skins of my tailcone. The corrosion is happening underneath the
>>> paint. Inside the tailcone there are a few 'wisps' of grayish corrosion
>>> coming up from the same joint which is riveted to the angle longerons.
>>>
>>> Anyone else experiencing this? What are you finding, what have you done?
>>>
>>> Plane is hangared except when traveling and only occassionally sees salt
>>> air - and I wash it down after each encounter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Signs of corrosion on tail cone |
I will agree with all John wrote except the electrical ground issue.
Given that type certified aircraft from the end of WWII on have used the
airframe as a ground path, you would expect to see such problems if it
were an issue, within say 30-40 years. Hasn't happened. My current
aircraft is 50 yrs old. Not one bit of corrosion around any of the power
consuming items that are grounded to the airframe, nor the ground attach
points. IIRC Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric connection says only
electronics need central grounding, NOT lights, pitot heat, and other
high current devices. Given he was the expert for Cessna, then Beech, I
tend to listen to his opinions.
I will not that where Vans uses aluminum angle for longerons, etc. that
aluminum angle is NOT Alclad, and requires some form of primer or
anodizing. I don't believe any of the material Vans supplies has any
primer, except in the quick build components, and I'm not sure they do
anything between the skins and the longerons. Heck, on mine they didn't
even bother to countersink the longerons where they attached to dimpled
skins.
On 7/30/2015 7:08 AM, John Cox wrote:
> #1 Surface preparation. Many on this list talk of Acetone or Alcohol
> cleaning. Aluminum begins Aluminum Oxide within an hour of
> scotchbrighting. Doing the work in a high humidity environment or an
> area under the influence of Salt vapor can impact the surface prep in
> short order. Correction: do an evaporation test of the solvent used
> on a piece of clear glass and see if after evaporation, deposits
> form. Prime within 15 minutes of scotchbrighting never hours or days.
>
> #2 Galvanic action by use of the airframe as the ground path from
> adjacent electrical circuits is another. Run a separate return path
> from lighting components forward to a more substantial frame member
> not in contact with exterior skin if using single wire power runs.
>
> #3 Use of chemicals which promotes Hydrolysis. The old Simple Green
> before they reformulated Aviation grade was notorious. Wicking action
> is best reduced by wet sealing the two skins with a roller of thin
> proseal. RTV is not a cure all.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Signs of corrosion on tail cone |
Improper surface prep can and does lead to issues. Did someone state Van's
preps parts?? Not the company I know so well. I will assume Bill did
everything "Top Notch". Washing of aircraft is another issue not discussed
on this forum, yet.
Can give examples of electrolysis doing corrosion damage but was not
intending to counter the disciples of Mr. Nuckholls. SFAR88 has
manufacturers rethinking due to FAA mandate the issues of electric current
beyond electronics. On our airliners which get 4400-4500 hours per year,
the damage is accelerated. Just a perspective. Maybe Acid Rain can be
blamed since Mr Nuckoll's was not retired at the time at Cessna when the
filliform was such a large issue.
Not a supporter of Mr. Scott's mantra "Just Build It". Build it safe,
enjoy flight, live LONG.
jc
On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> I will agree with all John wrote except the electrical ground issue. Given
> that type certified aircraft from the end of WWII on have used the airframe
> as a ground path, you would expect to see such problems if it were an
> issue, within say 30-40 years. Hasn't happened. My current aircraft is 50
> yrs old. Not one bit of corrosion around any of the power consuming items
> that are grounded to the airframe, nor the ground attach points. IIRC Bob
> Nuckolls of AeroElectric connection says only electronics need central
> grounding, NOT lights, pitot heat, and other high current devices. Given he
> was the expert for Cessna, then Beech, I tend to listen to his opinions.
> I will not that where Vans uses aluminum angle for longerons, etc. that
> aluminum angle is NOT Alclad, and requires some form of primer or
> anodizing. I don't believe any of the material Vans supplies has any
> primer, except in the quick build components, and I'm not sure they do
> anything between the skins and the longerons. Heck, on mine they didn't
> even bother to countersink the longerons where they attached to dimpled
> skins.
>
> On 7/30/2015 7:08 AM, John Cox wrote:
>
>> #1 Surface preparation. Many on this list talk of Acetone or Alcohol
>> cleaning. Aluminum begins Aluminum Oxide within an hour of
>> scotchbrighting. Doing the work in a high humidity environment or an area
>> under the influence of Salt vapor can impact the surface prep in short
>> order. Correction: do an evaporation test of the solvent used on a piece
>> of clear glass and see if after evaporation, deposits form. Prime within
>> 15 minutes of scotchbrighting never hours or days.
>>
>> #2 Galvanic action by use of the airframe as the ground path from
>> adjacent electrical circuits is another. Run a separate return path from
>> lighting components forward to a more substantial frame member not in
>> contact with exterior skin if using single wire power runs.
>>
>> #3 Use of chemicals which promotes Hydrolysis. The old Simple Green
>> before they reformulated Aviation grade was notorious. Wicking action is
>> best reduced by wet sealing the two skins with a roller of thin proseal.
>> RTV is not a cure all.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Signs of corrosion on tail cone |
Vans quick build components do get primer, I believe AFTER they are
assembled.
Cessna's corrosion had nothing to do with electrics. It had to do with
your mention of the overnight outside AND they eliminated one of the two
components of the primer they were using. It was supposed to be done on
two phases, not a single coat.
On 7/30/2015 8:09 AM, John Cox wrote:
> Improper surface prep can and does lead to issues. Did someone state
> Van's preps parts?? Not the company I know so well. I will assume
> Bill did everything "Top Notch". Washing of aircraft is another issue
> not discussed on this forum, yet.
>
> Can give examples of electrolysis doing corrosion damage but was not
> intending to counter the disciples of Mr. Nuckholls. SFAR88 has
> manufacturers rethinking due to FAA mandate the issues of electric
> current beyond electronics. On our airliners which get 4400-4500
> hours per year, the damage is accelerated. Just a perspective. Maybe
> Acid Rain can be blamed since Mr Nuckoll's was not retired at the time
> at Cessna when the filliform was such a large issue.
>
> Not a supporter of Mr. Scott's mantra "Just Build It". Build it safe,
> enjoy flight, live LONG.
> jc
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com
> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>
> I will agree with all John wrote except the electrical ground
> issue. Given that type certified aircraft from the end of WWII on
> have used the airframe as a ground path, you would expect to see
> such problems if it were an issue, within say 30-40 years. Hasn't
> happened. My current aircraft is 50 yrs old. Not one bit of
> corrosion around any of the power consuming items that are
> grounded to the airframe, nor the ground attach points. IIRC Bob
> Nuckolls of AeroElectric connection says only electronics need
> central grounding, NOT lights, pitot heat, and other high current
> devices. Given he was the expert for Cessna, then Beech, I tend to
> listen to his opinions.
> I will not that where Vans uses aluminum angle for longerons, etc.
> that aluminum angle is NOT Alclad, and requires some form of
> primer or anodizing. I don't believe any of the material Vans
> supplies has any primer, except in the quick build components, and
> I'm not sure they do anything between the skins and the longerons.
> Heck, on mine they didn't even bother to countersink the longerons
> where they attached to dimpled skins.
>
> On 7/30/2015 7:08 AM, John Cox wrote:
>
> #1 Surface preparation. Many on this list talk of Acetone or
> Alcohol cleaning. Aluminum begins Aluminum Oxide within an
> hour of scotchbrighting. Doing the work in a high humidity
> environment or an area under the influence of Salt vapor can
> impact the surface prep in short order. Correction: do an
> evaporation test of the solvent used on a piece of clear glass
> and see if after evaporation, deposits form. Prime within 15
> minutes of scotchbrighting never hours or days.
>
> #2 Galvanic action by use of the airframe as the ground path
> from adjacent electrical circuits is another. Run a separate
> return path from lighting components forward to a more
> substantial frame member not in contact with exterior skin if
> using single wire power runs.
>
> #3 Use of chemicals which promotes Hydrolysis. The old Simple
> Green before they reformulated Aviation grade was notorious.
> Wicking action is best reduced by wet sealing the two skins
> with a roller of thin proseal. RTV is not a cure all.
>
>
> ==========
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>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Crack with Door Latch Fit |
Don't beat yourself up, we've all had those little bumps in the road. I had
something similar and after removing the rivet used JB weld and re riveted
. Might not have been the best fix but you cannot tell it ever happened. af
ter paint.=C2-God Bless America
(please) =C2-:)
Bruce
On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 7:50 PM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.c
om> wrote:
No big deal.=C2- I would drill out two rivets, make an .063 plate to spa
n the three rivets adjacent to the pin block, and cover it up.=C2- Looks
like the tear goes right to the rivet hole so you don't even need to stop-d
rill it.
It may not be the last time that happens--it's happened to me a few times.
=C2- As you see more 10s you'll see a lot of people addressed that proble
m. A stout doubler will keep a the tear from happening again.
Another thing you might strongly consider is replacing the teflon guide blo
cks with aluminum pieces, same dimensions.
--Dave
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:50 PM, mhealydds <mhealydds@gmail.com> wrote:
Had and accident tonight while fitting door pin guides for RV-10 door. Whil
e testing door latch fit, the front pin was not engaged as it should have b
een and slipped to side skin and torn it as shown in pictures. Any thoughts
on a fix - quite disappointed in myself at the moment.....
Matt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445394#445394
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Message 6
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| Subject: | RV10 fork and wheel |
During the days that I had a flying C177RG, flying Glastar and an RV10 under
construction, we also planned to use the Glastar on unimproved fields. I
acquired an RV10 nose fork, the correct Matco nose wheel (not the vans
501.25 but the 511.25), axle and RV10 spacer kit. We also manufactured a
sleeve so that the fork would fit the smaller nose gear legs of the Glastar
and two place RVs. As an aside we put a metric tire on the Cleveland Glastar
mains and had a Glastar with about 4" more ground/prop clearance. Since the
Glastar was sold and the new owner preferred the original wheel/pant
installation, I have the complete fork/nose wheel combination for sale. Some
of the new builders may be interested in the correct Matco wheel, axle and
spacers. The vans supplied SS sleeves to hold the nose wheel bearings in
place so that the wheel rotates on the bearings last but a few hours, then
the sleeves start rotating and "eat" the aluminum fork. I saw one RV10
purchased aircraft whose owner wondered why he had such a tough time
steering while I looked to find the nose wheel oscillating back and forth at
about a 30 degree angle. Anyway the fork/wheel/axle/bearings/spacer/sleeve
is available. Contact me by direct email if interested. A picture is
available on request.
---
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