Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:03 AM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (rv10flyer)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Extensions (bill.peyton)
3. 08:03 AM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (rvdave)
4. 12:00 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Rob Kochman)
5. 02:32 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Jeff Carpenter)
6. 03:58 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Don McDonald)
7. 04:41 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Pascal)
8. 04:56 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Bill Watson)
9. 05:09 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Tim Olson)
10. 07:26 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Miller John)
11. 07:52 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (rv10flyer)
12. 10:34 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Thinking of their family.
Metar...
SP 16/09/2015 07:40->
SPECI KAMG 160740Z AUTO 06004KT 10SM BKN021 BKN041 22/19
A3021 RMK AO2 T02220194
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447184#447184
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Extensions |
Here is what I purchased
http://www.jdair.com/rudder-pedal-extensions-for-vans-rv-aircraft-rv-4-rv-6-rv-7-rv-9-rv-10/
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447185#447185
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Very sad and gut wrenching. There is a video showing the airplane and airport
environment in previous flights.
http://youtu.be/n-ZiJ8Ce4aQ
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447194#447194
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Interesting the FAA airman database shows he has a repairman certificate
but no pilot certificate.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
> Quite a few photos of the victims on Facebook this morning. 5 Adults.
>
> I noticed the fire chief too, but he's a Boatwright vs Boatright.
>
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2 small kids can count as one passenger depending on the weight..
> >
> >> On 17.09.2015 15:23, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> >>
> >> What, 5 POB in an RV-10?
> >>
> >> CT
> >>
> >> Enviado do meu iPhone
> >>
> >> No dia 17/09/2015, =C3-s 14:12, "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink
.net>
> escreveu:
> >>
> johngoodman@earthlink.net>
> >>>
> >>> Date/Time: 9-16-2015 / 0715Z
> >>>
> >>> Location: 4 miles East of Bacon County Airport (AMG) Alma, GA Near
> Highway 32 and Mesquite Rd.
> >>>
> >>> Call Sign and Type Aircraft: N122WK, RV10
> >>>
> >>> Type of Flight Rules: Unknown
> >>>
> >>> POB/Injuries or Fatalities: 5 POB (unconfirmed)/Fatal
> >>>
> >>> --------
> >>> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Read this topic online here:
> >>>
> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447145#447145
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
I've been running the weight and balance with some assumed
passenger/plane weights. It looks pretty easy with 5 adults to go aft cg
as the fuel is reduced.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Sep 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:
> Interesting the FAA airman database shows he has a repairman
certificate but no pilot certificate.
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Quite a few photos of the victims on Facebook this morning. 5
Adults.
>
> I noticed the fire chief too, but he's a Boatwright vs Boatright.
>
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2 small kids can count as one passenger depending on the weight..
> >
> >> On 17.09.2015 15:23, Carlos Trigo wrote:
<trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
> >>
> >> What, 5 POB in an RV-10?
> >>
> >> CT
> >>
> >> Enviado do meu iPhone
> >>
> >> No dia 17/09/2015, =E0s 14:12, "johngoodman"
<johngoodman@earthlink.net> escreveu:
> >>
<johngoodman@earthlink.net>
> >>>
> >>> Date/Time: 9-16-2015 / 0715Z
> >>>
> >>> Location: 4 miles East of Bacon County Airport (AMG) Alma, GA
Near Highway 32 and Mesquite Rd.
> >>>
> >>> Call Sign and Type Aircraft: N122WK, RV10
> >>>
> >>> Type of Flight Rules: Unknown
> >>>
> >>> POB/Injuries or Fatalities: 5 POB (unconfirmed)/Fatal
> >>>
> >>> --------
> >>> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Read this topic online here:
> >>>
> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447145#447145
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
> Woodinville, WA
> http://kochman.net/N819K
>
>
>
Westcott Press
1121 Isabel Street
Burbank, CA 91506
jeff@westcottpress.com
818-861-7300
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
What really will push it into a total aft cg is if they had anything in the
baggage area.=C2- If they had 3 160 pound passengers in the back seat ar
ea, without anything in the baggage area, they may have been within the lim
its of cg.=C2- Of course, depending on the weight of the front seat occup
ants, that could push them over the max weight (if they were big folk), or
to aft cg (if they were tiny folks).=C2- Then you throw in fuel on board.
... Gee, is that why they suggest you actually DO a weight and balance calc
ulation......
Don McDonald40636=C2-=C2- 800 hours.
Big Flyin' tomorrow at Pecan Plantation outside Granbury TX.=C2-=C2- 0T
X1
Lot's of food, Planes, Young Eagles, Kid Venture, etc.
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Crash in Georgia
I've been running the weight and balance with some assumed passenger/plane
weights. It looks pretty easy with 5 adults to go aft cg as the fuel is red
uced.
Jeff Carpenter40304
On Sep 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:
Interesting the FAA airman database shows he has a repairman certificate bu
t no pilot certificate.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote
:
Quite a few photos of the victims on Facebook this morning.=C2- =C2-5 A
dults.
I noticed the fire chief too, but he's a Boatwright vs Boatright.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> 2 small kids can count as one passenger depending on the weight..
>
>> On 17.09.2015 15:23, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>>
>> What, 5 POB in an RV-10?
>>
>> CT
>>
>> Enviado do meu iPhone
>>
>> No dia 17/09/2015, =C3-s 14:12, "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.n
et> escreveu:
>>
et>
>>>
>>> Date/Time: 9-16-2015 / 0715Z
>>>
>>> Location:=C2- 4 miles East of Bacon County Airport=C2- (AMG) Alma,
GA Near Highway 32 and Mesquite Rd.
>>>
>>> Call Sign and Type Aircraft:=C2- N122WK, RV10
>>>
>>> Type of Flight Rules: Unknown
>>>
>>> POB/Injuries or Fatalities:=C2- 5 POB (unconfirmed)/Fatal
>>>
>>> --------
>>> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447145#447145
>
>
=
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV10-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011Woodinville, WAhttp://kochman.net/N819K
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution
Westcott Press1121 Isabel StreetBurbank, CA 91506jeff@westcottpress.com818-
861-7300
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Assuming that the weight 170 pilot/ 150 co-pilot and average of 150Lbs
per person total of 450Lbs in the back, and 55 gallons, it also exceeds
max weight. At or above max weight and aft of limits. Not a good
situation at all
(disclaimer-. I state this as a general statement and not AT ALL
indicating that was the root of this or any accident)
From: Jeff Carpenter
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Crash in Georgia
I've been running the weight and balance with some assumed
passenger/plane weights. It looks pretty easy with 5 adults to go aft cg
as the fuel is reduced.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Sep 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:
Interesting the FAA airman database shows he has a repairman
certificate but no pilot certificate.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>
wrote:
<philperry9@gmail.com>
Quite a few photos of the victims on Facebook this morning. 5
Adults.
I noticed the fire chief too, but he's a Boatwright vs Boatright.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
wrote:
>
<glastar@gmx.net>
>
> 2 small kids can count as one passenger depending on the weight..
>
>> On 17.09.2015 15:23, Carlos Trigo wrote:
<trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
>>
>> What, 5 POB in an RV-10?
>>
>> CT
>>
>> Enviado do meu iPhone
>>
>> No dia 17/09/2015, =E0s 14:12, "johngoodman"
<johngoodman@earthlink.net> escreveu:
>>
<johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Date/Time: 9-16-2015 / 0715Z
>>>
>>> Location: 4 miles East of Bacon County Airport (AMG) Alma, GA
Near Highway 32 and Mesquite Rd.
>>>
>>> Call Sign and Type Aircraft: N122WK, RV10
>>>
>>> Type of Flight Rules: Unknown
>>>
>>> POB/Injuries or Fatalities: 5 POB (unconfirmed)/Fatal
>>>
>>> --------
>>> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447145#447145
>
>
>
>
=
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
==========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Westcott Press
1121 Isabel Street
Burbank, CA 91506
jeff@westcottpress.com
818-861-7300
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
In response to a discussion on the POA board, I ran some numbers for my
plane that shows you can carry 4 standards and a 100lb with 40 gallons -
forgot to run it with some fuel run thru it. Yes it is...
No matter, it's just an unfortunate tragedy.
On 9/18/2015 5:28 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> I've been running the weight and balance with some assumed
> passenger/plane weights. It looks pretty easy with 5 adults to go aft
> cg as the fuel is reduced.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:
>
>> Interesting the FAA airman database shows he has a repairman
>> certificate but no pilot certificate.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>
>>
>> Quite a few photos of the victims on Facebook this morning. 5
>> Adults.
>>
>> I noticed the fire chief too, but he's a Boatwright vs Boatright.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net
>> <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> <glastar@gmx.net <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>>
>> >
>> > 2 small kids can count as one passenger depending on the weight..
>> >
>> >> On 17.09.2015 15:23, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>> <trigo@mail.telepac.pt <mailto:trigo@mail.telepac.pt>>
>> >>
>> >> What, 5 POB in an RV-10?
>> >>
>> >> CT
>> >>
>> >> Enviado do meu iPhone
>> >>
>> >> No dia 17/09/2015, s 14:12, "johngoodman"
>> <johngoodman@earthlink.net <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>>
>> escreveu:
>> >>
>> <johngoodman@earthlink.net <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Date/Time: 9-16-2015 / 0715Z
>> >>>
>> >>> Location: 4 miles East of Bacon County Airport (AMG) Alma,
>> GA Near Highway 32 and Mesquite Rd.
>> >>>
>> >>> Call Sign and Type Aircraft: N122WK, RV10
>> >>>
>> >>> Type of Flight Rules: Unknown
>> >>>
>> >>> POB/Injuries or Fatalities: 5 POB (unconfirmed)/Fatal
>> >>>
>> >>> --------
>> >>> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Read this topic online here:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447145#447145
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> =
>> -List" rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rob Kochman
>> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
>> Woodinville, WA
>> http://kochman.net/N819K
>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>
> Westcott Press
> 1121 Isabel Street
> Burbank, CA 91506
> jeff@westcottpress.com <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
> 818-861-7300
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Although this is in no way an endorsement of flying overweight, I would
like to say that speculation of accidents, especially in the lowlands
of Georgia, is probably not going to be related to the overweight part.
CG perhaps, but with the performance the RV-10 has, I'm sure that
even at 300 or 400lbs over gross they'd still be outperforming your
average piper/cessna off that field. And if it was just slightly out
of aft CG, it would be unlikely that it would be a major issue as well.
The airplane gets very pitch sensitive at aft CG, but it would likely
have to be more then just a tiny bit aft, if it were the sole cause of
the accident. I do admit that when I heard "5 persons on board" I was
assuming one was a baby, and when seeing photos of those involved, it's
clear they were adults, so that does raise some eyebrows. But without
actually knowing the loading pattern and all, it's not worth speculating
too much. For all we know, the passenger stick was removable, and
someone sat on the co-pilots lap, which would almost definitely have
been enough to keep it in CG...and the lack of proper restraints could
have led to the delay in recognizing that there were 5 people on board.
That too is just head scratching speculation though. Once we hear
the NTSB report, we'll know a bit more I'm sure.
If you want to take comfort in one thing, keep this in mind. To date,
I know of no fatal accident in an RV-10 that was not caused by a
mistake that someone at the controls made. And, there have been a
fairly low number of fatals compared to many models of homebuilt.
We have, however, maintained a fairly steady rate of incident happening
ever since that first tragedy, so it's best we all keep these events
in the back of our own minds, lest we allow ourselves to do something
we shouldn't. Even if we cut the rate in half, I personally feel
we can do better.
Tim
On 9/18/2015 6:38 PM, Pascal wrote:
> Assuming that the weight 170 pilot/ 150 co-pilot and average of 150Lbs
> per person total of 450Lbs in the back, and 55 gallons, it also exceeds
> max weight. At or above max weight and aft of limits. Not a good
> situation at all
> (disclaimer-. I state this as a general statement and not AT ALL
> indicating that was the root of this or any accident)
> *From:* Jeff Carpenter <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 18, 2015 2:28 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Crash in Georgia
> I've been running the weight and balance with some assumed
> passenger/plane weights. It looks pretty easy with 5 adults to go aft cg
> as the fuel is reduced.
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> On Sep 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:
>
>> Interesting the FAA airman database shows he has a repairman
>> certificate but no pilot certificate.
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>
>>
>> Quite a few photos of the victims on Facebook this morning. 5
>> Adults.
>>
>> I noticed the fire chief too, but he's a Boatwright vs Boatright.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Werner Schneider<glastar@gmx.net <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >2 small kids can count as one passenger depending on the weight..
>> >
>> >> On 17.09.2015 15:23, Carlos Trigowrote:
>> >>
>> >>What, 5 POB in an RV-10?
>> >>
>> >> CT
>> >>
>> >>Enviado do meu iPhone
>> >>
>> >> No dia 17/09/2015, s 14:12,"johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net
>> <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>> escreveu:
>> >>
>> >>> -->RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman"
>> <johngoodman@earthlink.net <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Date/Time: 9-16-2015 / 0715Z
>> >>>
>> >>> Location:4 miles East of Bacon County Airport (AMG) Alma, GA Near Highway
>> 32 and Mesquite Rd.
>> >>>
>> >>> Call Sign and TypeAircraft: N122WK, RV10
>> >>>
>> >>> Type of FlightRules: Unknown
>> >>>
>> >>> POB/Injuries orFatalities: 5 POB (unconfirmed)/Fatal
>> >>>
>> >>>--------
>> >>> #40572 Phase One complete in2011
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Read this topic online here:
>> >>>
>> >>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447145#447145
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> =
>> -List" rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rob Kochman
>> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
>> Woodinville, WA
>> http://kochman.net/N819K
>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
> Westcott Press
> 1121 Isabel Street
> Burbank, CA 91506
> jeff@westcottpress.com <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
> 818-861-7300
>
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c *
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
I agree with Tim. We should let the NTSB investigation tell us what they think
is most plausible.
However, I, like Tim, tend to think that this one will point at the pilot..0300
takeoff/landing at a remote field with lots of trees and swamps and few lights
on both ends of the runway . 5 adults in a nominal 4 place plane.
Just does not add up in the common sense category.
grumpy
do not archive
> On Sep 18, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> Although this is in no way an endorsement of flying overweight, I would
> like to say that speculation of accidents, especially in the lowlands
> of Georgia, is probably not going to be related to the overweight part.
> CG perhaps, but with the performance the RV-10 has, I'm sure that
> even at 300 or 400lbs over gross they'd still be outperforming your
> average piper/cessna off that field. And if it was just slightly out
> of aft CG, it would be unlikely that it would be a major issue as well.
> The airplane gets very pitch sensitive at aft CG, but it would likely
> have to be more then just a tiny bit aft, if it were the sole cause of
> the accident. I do admit that when I heard "5 persons on board" I was
> assuming one was a baby, and when seeing photos of those involved, it's
> clear they were adults, so that does raise some eyebrows. But without
> actually knowing the loading pattern and all, it's not worth speculating
> too much. For all we know, the passenger stick was removable, and
> someone sat on the co-pilots lap, which would almost definitely have
> been enough to keep it in CG...and the lack of proper restraints could
> have led to the delay in recognizing that there were 5 people on board.
> That too is just head scratching speculation though. Once we hear
> the NTSB report, we'll know a bit more I'm sure.
>
> If you want to take comfort in one thing, keep this in mind. To date,
> I know of no fatal accident in an RV-10 that was not caused by a
> mistake that someone at the controls made. And, there have been a
> fairly low number of fatals compared to many models of homebuilt.
> We have, however, maintained a fairly steady rate of incident happening
> ever since that first tragedy, so it's best we all keep these events
> in the back of our own minds, lest we allow ourselves to do something
> we shouldn't. Even if we cut the rate in half, I personally feel
> we can do better.
> Tim
>
>
> On 9/18/2015 6:38 PM, Pascal wrote:
>> Assuming that the weight 170 pilot/ 150 co-pilot and average of 150Lbs
>> per person total of 450Lbs in the back, and 55 gallons, it also exceeds
>> max weight. At or above max weight and aft of limits. Not a good
>> situation at all
>> (disclaimer-. I state this as a general statement and not AT ALL
>> indicating that was the root of this or any accident)
>> *From:* Jeff Carpenter <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 18, 2015 2:28 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Crash in Georgia
>> I've been running the weight and balance with some assumed
>> passenger/plane weights. It looks pretty easy with 5 adults to go aft cg
>> as the fuel is reduced.
>> Jeff Carpenter
>> 40304
>> On Sep 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting the FAA airman database shows he has a repairman
>>> certificate but no pilot certificate.
>>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>>
>>>
>>> Quite a few photos of the victims on Facebook this morning. 5
>>> Adults.
>>>
>>> I noticed the fire chief too, but he's a Boatwright vs Boatright.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Werner Schneider<glastar@gmx.net <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >2 small kids can count as one passenger depending on the weight..
>>> >
>>> >> On 17.09.2015 15:23, Carlos Trigowrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>What, 5 POB in an RV-10?
>>> >>
>>> >> CT
>>> >>
>>> >>Enviado do meu iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >> No dia 17/09/2015, s 14:12,"johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net
>>> <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>> escreveu:
>>> >>
>>> >>> -->RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman"
>>> <johngoodman@earthlink.net <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Date/Time: 9-16-2015 / 0715Z
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Location:4 miles East of Bacon County Airport (AMG) Alma, GA Near Highway
>>> 32 and Mesquite Rd.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Call Sign and TypeAircraft: N122WK, RV10
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Type of FlightRules: Unknown
>>> >>>
>>> >>> POB/Injuries orFatalities: 5 POB (unconfirmed)/Fatal
>>> >>>
>>> >>>--------
>>> >>> #40572 Phase One complete in2011
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Read this topic online here:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447145#447145
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>> -List" rel="noreferrer"
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rob Kochman
>>> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
>>> Woodinville, WA
>>> http://kochman.net/N819K
>>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>> Westcott Press
>> 1121 Isabel Street
>> Burbank, CA 91506
>> jeff@westcottpress.com <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
>> 818-861-7300
>>
>>
>>
>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c *
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
I too do not feel cg or weight was the issue. I depart at gross wt and near our
aft limit on landing. No problem controlling it. Sensitive yes. I would think
that a severe aft cg problem would have had consequences at rotation, not 3.5
miles East. I am betting weather and a very thin waxing crescent moon had a factor
in the loss of control. He flew towards town, the brighest area around.
Time will tell. Flying without a certificate proves poor ADM to begin with, so
it was just a matter of time. Unfortunately, we now have thousands more around
the country that hate those dangerous little airplanes.
Tim, we did have one fatal in Texas that was undetermined...Mr. Ritter. The rest
I agree on.
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id 080317X00316&ntsbno=DFW08LA081&akey=1
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447218#447218
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Wayne,
Sorry I'm going to write this without educating myself by reading that ntsb
report to refresh my memory, but I would even say that the Ritter one was
likely avoidable. From what I remember, he wasn't a young person, and he
was not feeling well that day and decided to fly home from a fly-in not
feeling well. We all know that you're not supposed to get in the plane when
you're not in condition to fly. There are days that just having a cold,
even
though you're not medicated, is reason to ground yourself. Heck, I even
take a leak in flight, any time I even have an inkling I may need to, before
I attempt an instrument approach in actual conditions. So to me, from
what I remember about that crash, it was likely avoidable. My guess is that
it was a medical issue, that nobody will ever know the answer to.
That is speculation, yes, but I don't think there was anything in the
crash that
pointed to the airplane, and there were things that pointed to health.
So I figure that one still at least in my mind, goes to pilot error in
some way.
It's funny, years and years ago when reading about crashes in magazines, I
noticed that they almost always started the sentence with the
official accident cause as "the pilot failed..." and at first, I was
kind of
offended by that. I mean, why always blame the pilot? But then I got
more flying experience, and I realized that it really *IS* that way.
You are
ultimately 100% responsible for the safety of your flight...not 99. You can
blame it on a gust of crosswind, or anything like that. Somewhere along the
way, the pilot failed. So now I've turned a full 180 and I basically
feel that
every accident is avoidable, if the pilot just does his job correctly.
I'll happily give a pass to the guy who has an engine out over the ocean,
or the Canadian/Alaskan wilderness, but in general, there is almost always
at least a good possibility of making a flight survivable.
All this jibber jabber reminds me of what was maybe my first IFR flight
after
getting my instrument ticket. I took a buddy for a short 15 mile IFR
flight,
and within a few seconds of getting into the clouds, a little of the
good kind
of paranoia came over me. I remember vividly thinking to myself ... "Well,
you got yourself into this...you took off, and now you're in it, and it
doesn't
matter that you're talking to ATC and it's a short flight....it's 100% up to
yourself to get this plane back on the ground with everyone alive."
It was pretty sobering, because at that point in time, I wasn't so sure
that even
though I had the ticket, I had the stuff. It was just one of those
humbling
times that I appreciated having.
Anyway, that is why I included the Ritter flight in the net that I cast
when I said
they were ALL pilot caused. I think it was just a poor choice to depart.
Tim
On 9/18/2015 9:48 PM, rv10flyer wrote:
>
> I too do not feel cg or weight was the issue. I depart at gross wt and near our
aft limit on landing. No problem controlling it. Sensitive yes. I would think
that a severe aft cg problem would have had consequences at rotation, not 3.5
miles East. I am betting weather and a very thin waxing crescent moon had a
factor in the loss of control. He flew towards town, the brighest area around.
Time will tell. Flying without a certificate proves poor ADM to begin with,
so it was just a matter of time. Unfortunately, we now have thousands more around
the country that hate those dangerous little airplanes.
>
> Tim, we did have one fatal in Texas that was undetermined...Mr. Ritter. The rest
I agree on.
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id 080317X00316&ntsbno=DFW08LA081&akey=1
>
> --------
> Wayne G.
>
>
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