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1. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Linn Walters)
2. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Miller John)
3. 08:01 AM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (rv10flyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Tim, I couldn't agree more. I look at all the 'famous' pilots that have
gone west prematurely and wonder what chance do I, a relatively baby
pilot, have to survive to a ripe old age. I bristled at the amount of
'pilot error' ...... how can this be? Like you I did the 180 and read
the NTSB accident reports so I can learn and, hopefully, prevent the
early demise.
If we take care of our airplanes, do real annuals, and fix the squawks
as they come up, then the chance of equipment failure goes way down.
That leaves the PIC as the largest failure point.
As for the Ritter NTSB report, which I read again, the glaring item to
me was the vertical descent at high speed (full power?) ..... he was no
longer in control of what was probably a 'flyable' airplane. Spacial
disorientation may have played a big part, I don't know.
Over the years I've lost a fair amount of friends, mostly to old age,
but some in aviation-related accidents. The latter mostly doing stupid
pilot tricks. I mourn them all, stupid or not, and pray that I don't
join that group.
Fly safe, weigh the odds of your launch decisions, and always think
about what the headlines may say about you.
Linn
On 9/19/2015 1:31 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Wayne,
>
> Sorry I'm going to write this without educating myself by reading that
> ntsb
> report to refresh my memory, but I would even say that the Ritter one was
> likely avoidable. From what I remember, he wasn't a young person, and he
> was not feeling well that day and decided to fly home from a fly-in not
> feeling well. We all know that you're not supposed to get in the
> plane when
> you're not in condition to fly. There are days that just having a
> cold, even
> though you're not medicated, is reason to ground yourself. Heck, I even
> take a leak in flight, any time I even have an inkling I may need to,
> before
> I attempt an instrument approach in actual conditions. So to me, from
> what I remember about that crash, it was likely avoidable. My guess
> is that
> it was a medical issue, that nobody will ever know the answer to.
> That is speculation, yes, but I don't think there was anything in the
> crash that
> pointed to the airplane, and there were things that pointed to health.
> So I figure that one still at least in my mind, goes to pilot error in
> some way.
> It's funny, years and years ago when reading about crashes in
> magazines, I
> noticed that they almost always started the sentence with the
> official accident cause as "the pilot failed..." and at first, I was
> kind of
> offended by that. I mean, why always blame the pilot? But then I got
> more flying experience, and I realized that it really *IS* that way.
> You are
> ultimately 100% responsible for the safety of your flight...not 99.
> You can
> blame it on a gust of crosswind, or anything like that. Somewhere
> along the
> way, the pilot failed. So now I've turned a full 180 and I basically
> feel that
> every accident is avoidable, if the pilot just does his job correctly.
> I'll happily give a pass to the guy who has an engine out over the ocean,
> or the Canadian/Alaskan wilderness, but in general, there is almost
> always
> at least a good possibility of making a flight survivable.
>
> All this jibber jabber reminds me of what was maybe my first IFR
> flight after
> getting my instrument ticket. I took a buddy for a short 15 mile IFR
> flight,
> and within a few seconds of getting into the clouds, a little of the
> good kind
> of paranoia came over me. I remember vividly thinking to myself ...
> "Well,
> you got yourself into this...you took off, and now you're in it, and
> it doesn't
> matter that you're talking to ATC and it's a short flight....it's 100%
> up to
> yourself to get this plane back on the ground with everyone alive."
> It was pretty sobering, because at that point in time, I wasn't so
> sure that even
> though I had the ticket, I had the stuff. It was just one of those
> humbling
> times that I appreciated having.
>
> Anyway, that is why I included the Ritter flight in the net that I
> cast when I said
> they were ALL pilot caused. I think it was just a poor choice to depart.
> Tim
>
>
> On 9/18/2015 9:48 PM, rv10flyer wrote:
>>
>> I too do not feel cg or weight was the issue. I depart at gross wt
>> and near our aft limit on landing. No problem controlling it.
>> Sensitive yes. I would think that a severe aft cg problem would have
>> had consequences at rotation, not 3.5 miles East. I am betting
>> weather and a very thin waxing crescent moon had a factor in the loss
>> of control. He flew towards town, the brighest area around. Time will
>> tell. Flying without a certificate proves poor ADM to begin with, so
>> it was just a matter of time. Unfortunately, we now have thousands
>> more around the country that hate those dangerous little airplanes.
>>
>> Tim, we did have one fatal in Texas that was undetermined...Mr.
>> Ritter. The rest I agree on.
>>
>> http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id 080317X00316&ntsbno=DFW08LA081&akey=1
>>
>>
>> --------
>> Wayne G.
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 09/18/15
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Tim,
I have been in aviation all of my adult life, have lost many friends to accidents,
and have officially investigated accidents for cause factors.
You are correct - most accidents result from poor pilot decision making or inadequate
pilot training for the task at hand, including poor decision making when
responding to equipment failures.
grumpy
do not archive
> On Sep 19, 2015, at 12:31 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> Wayne,
>
> Sorry I'm going to write this without educating myself by reading that ntsb
> report to refresh my memory, but I would even say that the Ritter one was
> likely avoidable. From what I remember, he wasn't a young person, and he
> was not feeling well that day and decided to fly home from a fly-in not
> feeling well. We all know that you're not supposed to get in the plane when
> you're not in condition to fly. There are days that just having a cold, even
> though you're not medicated, is reason to ground yourself. Heck, I even
> take a leak in flight, any time I even have an inkling I may need to, before
> I attempt an instrument approach in actual conditions. So to me, from
> what I remember about that crash, it was likely avoidable. My guess is that
> it was a medical issue, that nobody will ever know the answer to.
> That is speculation, yes, but I don't think there was anything in the crash that
> pointed to the airplane, and there were things that pointed to health.
> So I figure that one still at least in my mind, goes to pilot error in some way.
> It's funny, years and years ago when reading about crashes in magazines, I
> noticed that they almost always started the sentence with the
> official accident cause as "the pilot failed..." and at first, I was kind of
> offended by that. I mean, why always blame the pilot? But then I got
> more flying experience, and I realized that it really *IS* that way. You are
> ultimately 100% responsible for the safety of your flight...not 99. You can
> blame it on a gust of crosswind, or anything like that. Somewhere along the
> way, the pilot failed. So now I've turned a full 180 and I basically feel that
> every accident is avoidable, if the pilot just does his job correctly.
> I'll happily give a pass to the guy who has an engine out over the ocean,
> or the Canadian/Alaskan wilderness, but in general, there is almost always
> at least a good possibility of making a flight survivable.
>
> All this jibber jabber reminds me of what was maybe my first IFR flight after
> getting my instrument ticket. I took a buddy for a short 15 mile IFR flight,
> and within a few seconds of getting into the clouds, a little of the good kind
> of paranoia came over me. I remember vividly thinking to myself ... "Well,
> you got yourself into this...you took off, and now you're in it, and it doesn't
> matter that you're talking to ATC and it's a short flight....it's 100% up to
> yourself to get this plane back on the ground with everyone alive."
> It was pretty sobering, because at that point in time, I wasn't so sure that
even
> though I had the ticket, I had the stuff. It was just one of those humbling
> times that I appreciated having.
>
> Anyway, that is why I included the Ritter flight in the net that I cast when
I said
> they were ALL pilot caused. I think it was just a poor choice to depart.
> Tim
>
>
>
> On 9/18/2015 9:48 PM, rv10flyer wrote:
>>
>> I too do not feel cg or weight was the issue. I depart at gross wt and near
our aft limit on landing. No problem controlling it. Sensitive yes. I would think
that a severe aft cg problem would have had consequences at rotation, not
3.5 miles East. I am betting weather and a very thin waxing crescent moon had
a factor in the loss of control. He flew towards town, the brighest area around.
Time will tell. Flying without a certificate proves poor ADM to begin with,
so it was just a matter of time. Unfortunately, we now have thousands more around
the country that hate those dangerous little airplanes.
>>
>> Tim, we did have one fatal in Texas that was undetermined...Mr. Ritter. The
rest I agree on.
>>
>> http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id 080317X00316&ntsbno=DFW08LA081&akey=1
>>
>> --------
>> Wayne G.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia |
Most pilots think it can never happen to them. There is always the 10-20% that
are out of our control. In-flight fire in wx or at night. Bird strikes. ATC error.
Mid-air. Design flaw...yes even that RV-10 we built is not perfect. Not everyone
built their plane and not all build errors get caught during a pre-buy
or condition inspection. You can bet that we'll get blamed anyway by our own
and outsiders.
--------
Wayne G.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447241#447241
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