---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/23/15: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Don McDonald) 2. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (Tim Olson) 3. 09:19 AM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (rv10flyer) 4. 12:17 PM - link 122WK (David) 5. 05:44 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (woxofswa) 6. 06:41 PM - Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia (rv10flyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:44 AM PST US From: Don McDonald Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia All you will be able to mutter is WOW. http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id 150916X8002 8&key=1 Don McDonald From: Tim Olson To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 12:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia Wayne, Sorry I'm going to write this without educating myself by reading that ntsb report to refresh my memory, but I would even say that the Ritter one was likely avoidable.=C2- From what I remember, he wasn't a young person, and he was not feeling well that day and decided to fly home from a fly-in not feeling well.=C2- We all know that you're not supposed to get in the plan e when you're not in condition to fly.=C2- There are days that just having a col d, even though you're not medicated, is reason to ground yourself.=C2- Heck, I ev en take a leak in flight, any time I even have an inkling I may need to, befor e I attempt an instrument approach in actual conditions.=C2- So to me, from what I remember about that crash, it was likely avoidable.=C2- My guess i s that it was a medical issue, that nobody will ever know the answer to. That is speculation, yes, but I don't think there was anything in the crash that pointed to the airplane, and there were things that pointed to health. So I figure that one still at least in my mind, goes to pilot error in some way. It's funny, years and years ago when reading about crashes in magazines, I noticed that they almost always started the sentence with the official accident cause as "the pilot failed..."=C2- and at first, I was kind of offended by that.=C2- I mean, why always blame the pilot?=C2- But then I got more flying experience, and I realized that it really *IS* that way.=C2- You are ultimately 100% responsible for the safety of your flight...not 99.=C2- Y ou can blame it on a gust of crosswind, or anything like that.=C2- Somewhere alo ng the way, the pilot failed.=C2- So now I've turned a full 180 and I basically feel that every accident is avoidable, if the pilot just does his job correctly. I'll happily give a pass to the guy who has an engine out over the ocean, or the Canadian/Alaskan wilderness, but in general, there is almost always at least a good possibility of making a flight survivable. All this jibber jabber reminds me of what was maybe my first IFR flight after getting my instrument ticket.=C2- I took a buddy for a short 15 mile IFR flight, and within a few seconds of getting into the clouds, a little of the good kind of paranoia came over me.=C2- I remember vividly thinking to myself ... " Well, you got yourself into this...you took off, and now you're in it, and it doesn't matter that you're talking to ATC and it's a short flight....it's 100% up t o yourself to get this plane back on the ground with everyone alive." It was pretty sobering, because at that point in time, I wasn't so sure that even though I had the ticket, I had the stuff.=C2- It was just one of those humbling times that I appreciated having. Anyway, that is why I included the Ritter flight in the net that I cast when I said they were ALL pilot caused.=C2- I think it was just a poor choice to depa rt. Tim On 9/18/2015 9:48 PM, rv10flyer wrote: > > I too do not feel cg or weight was the issue. I depart at gross wt and ne ar our aft limit on landing. No problem controlling it. Sensitive yes. I wo uld think that a severe aft cg problem would have had consequences at rotat ion, not 3.5 miles East. I am betting weather and a very thin waxing cresce nt moon had a factor in the loss of control. He flew towards town, the brig hest area around. Time will tell. Flying without a certificate proves poor ADM to begin with, so it was just a matter of time. Unfortunately, we now h ave thousands more around the country that hate those dangerous little airp lanes. > > Tim, we did have one fatal in Texas that was undetermined...Mr. Ritter. T he rest I agree on. > > http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id 080317X0 0316&ntsbno=DFW08LA081&akey=1 > > -------- > Wayne G. > > S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia From: Tim Olson Well, I guess that confirms some things people have been scratching their heads about. Sounds like there wasn't much left of anything to even look at, let alone learn from. If you can't learn from the OBVIOUS issues with the flight, you likely shouldn't be flying airplanes....even if you do or don't have a pilots certificate. If you're like the many tens of thousands of responsible pilots out there, this particular case should give you nothing to worry about...not many people would attempt such things, but Darwin takes care of those who do. Tim do not archive On 9/23/2015 10:09 AM, Don McDonald wrote: > All you will be able to mutter is WOW. > > http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id 150916X80028&key=1 > > Don McDonald > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:52 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia From: "rv10flyer" Field elevation 200'. Ceiling was 2100' near the time of the accident. That would put him in and out of the clouds, possibly in combination with aft CG. Also interested in toxicology report. Wonder if he flew his July 2015 KDAB IFR trips with an IFR guy in the right seat? Yes Don...Wow! -------- Wayne G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447383#447383 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:28 PM PST US From: "David" Subject: RV10-List: link 122WK NTSB link. NTSB Identification: ERA15FA359 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:35 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia From: "woxofswa" I'm sure that there were redeeming and wonderful qualities in each of those who perished. I grieve with their families. Such a sad and tragic shame. However, If the reports are true, then this was criminal negligence if not outright M****r/S*****e, and unfortunately we all pay in the end. If we don't want the Feds to police us, then we must police ourselves and we can't do that by sugarcoating idiotic behavior. God bless the grieving. God bless us all. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Flew May 10 2014 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447404#447404 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:49 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Crash in Georgia From: "rv10flyer" Unfortunately, guys like that stay under the radar, don't hang out on Matronics/Pilots of America/VAF like we do. They don't fly or associate with us that play by the rules. That makes it difficult to police them. Maybe someone could match the aircraft registration/medical/ppc database up and check into those that don't match. I know all three of mine are in order. -------- Wayne G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447406#447406 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.