Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:35 AM - $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (bruceflys)
2. 06:06 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Jesse Saint)
3. 06:50 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Shannon Hicks)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Tim Olson)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Kelly McMullen)
6. 08:00 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Shannon Hicks)
7. 08:25 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Linn Walters)
8. 10:24 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (John Cox)
9. 06:54 PM - Re: Seat question (Bill Watson)
10. 10:54 PM - Re: Re: Seat question (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
>From my manual's Section 5 dated 9/24/13:
Two sealants popular for use on aircraft are Tite-seal and Permatex #2. Teflon
based pipe dopes and sealants, and some of the anaerobic thread sealants are
also used by some builders with success. Do not use Fuel Lube. It is not a sealant.
It is meant for lubricating moving parts in fuel valves, etc. Teflon tape
is also not recommended. Small pieces of this tape may be cut by the threads,
become loose, and cause all kinds of problems in aircraft systems. Teflon tape
has even been the cause of engine stoppages.
That applies for lawsuits. I saw the contradiction you pointed out in Section 37
during my build. I have used fuel lube, now EZ Turn, on fuel line NPT fittings
for many years with good results. For high pressure lines, such as brakes,
a conventional sealant is a better choice.
[quote="civengpe"]"Section 5 of the manual only forbids fuel lube and Teflon tape."
Did I miss something? I just reread section 5 and did not see the prohibition
of fuel lube. Page 37-3 of the plans states "...do not use Teflon tape. Use
instead, fuel lube orequivalentpipe thread sealing paste."
Shannon
--------
RV-10 UC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448150#448150
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
I use Seal Lube. It works great.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 8:02 AM, bruceflys <bruceflys@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>> From my manual's Section 5 dated 9/24/13:
>
> Two sealants popular for use on aircraft are Tite-seal and Permatex #2. Teflon
based pipe dopes and sealants, and some of the anaerobic thread sealants are
also used by some builders with success. Do not use Fuel Lube. It is not a sealant.
It is meant for lubricating moving parts in fuel valves, etc. Teflon tape
is also not recommended. Small pieces of this tape may be cut by the threads,
become loose, and cause all kinds of problems in aircraft systems. Teflon tape
has even been the cause of engine stoppages.
>
> That applies for lawsuits. I saw the contradiction you pointed out in Section
37 during my build. I have used fuel lube, now EZ Turn, on fuel line NPT fittings
for many years with good results. For high pressure lines, such as brakes,
a conventional sealant is a better choice.
>
>
>
> [quote="civengpe"]"Section 5 of the manual only forbids fuel lube and Teflon
tape." Did I miss something? I just reread section 5 and did not see the prohibition
of fuel lube. Page 37-3 of the plans states "...do not use Teflon tape.
Use instead, fuel lube or equivalent pipe thread sealing paste."
>
> Shannon
>
> --------
> RV-10 UC
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448150#448150
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
There must have been some changes made to section 5 between my version
(2003) and this one. If someone has the most recent version in PDF I would
really like to get a copy.
Thanks,
Shannon
On Wednesday, October 21, 2015, bruceflys <bruceflys@comcast.net> wrote:
> <javascript:;>>
>
> >From my manual's Section 5 dated 9/24/13:
>
> Two sealants popular for use on aircraft are Tite-seal and Permatex #2.
> Teflon based pipe dopes and sealants, and some of the anaerobic thread
> sealants are also used by some builders with success. Do not use Fuel Lube.
> It is not a sealant. It is meant for lubricating moving parts in fuel
> valves, etc. Teflon tape is also not recommended. Small pieces of this tape
> may be cut by the threads, become loose, and cause all kinds of problems in
> aircraft systems. Teflon tape has even been the cause of engine stoppages.
>
> That applies for lawsuits. I saw the contradiction you pointed out in
> Section 37 during my build. I have used fuel lube, now EZ Turn, on fuel
> line NPT fittings for many years with good results. For high pressure
> lines, such as brakes, a conventional sealant is a better choice.
>
>
> [quote="civengpe"]"Section 5 of the manual only forbids fuel lube and
> Teflon tape." Did I miss something? I just reread section 5 and did not
> see the prohibition of fuel lube. Page 37-3 of the plans states "...do not
> use Teflon tape. Use instead, fuel lube or equivalent pipe thread sealing
> paste."
>
> Shannon
>
> --------
> RV-10 UC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448150#448150
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
To get the most recent section 5, I'd suggest getting it from
Van's. They have it under revisions, and it was updated during
the RV-14 kit.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv14.htm
I still have my original copy from 2005 or earlier, but,
this one is much better, and was revised 6/12/15.
Tim
On 10/21/2015 8:46 AM, Shannon Hicks wrote:
> There must have been some changes made to section 5 between my version
> (2003) and this one. If someone has the most recent version in PDF I
> would really like to get a copy.
>
> Thanks,
> Shannon
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
New section 5 by itself is available at
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-ALL_Section-5.pdf
On 10/21/2015 7:10 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> To get the most recent section 5, I'd suggest getting it from
> Van's. They have it under revisions, and it was updated during
> the RV-14 kit.
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv14.htm
>
> I still have my original copy from 2005 or earlier, but,
> this one is much better, and was revised 6/12/15.
> Tim
>
>
> On 10/21/2015 8:46 AM, Shannon Hicks wrote:
>> There must have been some changes made to section 5 between my version
>> (2003) and this one. If someone has the most recent version in PDF I
>> would really like to get a copy.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shannon
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
Thanks Tim.
On Oct 21, 2015 09:17, "Tim Olson" <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
>
> To get the most recent section 5, I'd suggest getting it from
> Van's. They have it under revisions, and it was updated during
> the RV-14 kit.
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv14.htm
>
> I still have my original copy from 2005 or earlier, but,
> this one is much better, and was revised 6/12/15.
> Tim
>
>
> On 10/21/2015 8:46 AM, Shannon Hicks wrote:
>
>> There must have been some changes made to section 5 between my version
>> (2003) and this one. If someone has the most recent version in PDF I
>> would really like to get a copy.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shannon
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
Thanks Kelly .... much improved over my section 5. Now all Vans has to
do is get people to read it!!!!
I've seen a lot of 'crap' on airplanes over the years, and I'm still
amazed at the 'Here's a better idea.' and 'If a little is good, more
must be better.' mentality. When I was a baby pilot building a BD-5 my
mentor gave me a dog-eared copy of AC 43-13 ..... and it's in much worse
shape now. That ought to be 'required reading' for any builder. It
sure would have saved many lives over the years.
Linn
On 10/21/2015 10:54 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> New section 5 by itself is available at
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-ALL_Section-5.pdf
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
I will gladly attend the trial and post developments. I am certain it will
not be an Oregon Aviation Judge as Justice Charles SAMS, former USAF Brig.
Gen has already passed away and all of my pilot attorney friends s are
either retired, practicing and not serving as judges. Negligence is the
issue. Who was negligent? This attorney Clarke has Certificated
production aircraft under part 23 confused with Experimental Build Kit
Aircraft built for the Education of the Walter Mitty builder. Must be on
Cessna/Piper & Cirrus Chinese payroll.
Builder error, Operator error.... Oh hell just throw the net wherever the
money is hiding. It sure isn't most RV-10 builders.
I believe Mike Van Hoomisen is Van's Aircraft attorney (also AOPA) and a
thoroughly good aviation attorney. He has helped several friends out of
spots who I have directed to him. However one settlement nearly shut down
Airflow Performance and a family business when it was economically
expedient for one defendant to pay up and close the litigation.
$35,000,000 is a large number. What is that Oregon bumper sticker "Keep
Portland Weird". Here we go again. It is just business as usual. And who
carefully supervised and consulted on the build? How would a bypass fuel
line help when it too flows the RTV sealant (that was used - incorrectly)
to its ultimate stop? Oh that's right "Just Build it" and of course VANS
must have directed the build and sold the RTV for that contributing fuel
line installation. Got Ya!
Tragic for all.
John Cox
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Kelly .... much improved over my section 5. Now all Vans has to do
> is get people to read it!!!!
> I've seen a lot of 'crap' on airplanes over the years, and I'm still
> amazed at the 'Here's a better idea.' and 'If a little is good, more must
> be better.' mentality. When I was a baby pilot building a BD-5 my mentor
> gave me a dog-eared copy of AC 43-13 ..... and it's in much worse shape
> now. That ought to be 'required reading' for any builder. It sure would
> have saved many lives over the years.
> Linn
>
> On 10/21/2015 10:54 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> New section 5 by itself is available at
>> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-ALL_Section-5.pdf
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Seat question |
I did one of the rail mods some time ago and it's worth it's weight in
gold now that I'm getting on to 5 years of flying and maintaining.
However, I still labored at the T-handle removal and re-installation. I
had read about how the stops could be modified for easy removal but I
forgot about that and instead returned to the idea of nut plates on the
T-handles.
However, I ended up doing something slightly different. I used nutserts
in the T-handle.
The only concern I observed after I did the first one is that nutsert
are not finished flush on the inserted face. It would work this way but
there would be a roughly 1/64" space between the T-handler and the seat
frame.
Turns out that if you install them 'backwards', they leave a flush fit
for the T-handle to mate with the seat frame. It also leaves a nicely
finished face on the outside edge... not that one ever really sees that
edge.
Now the T-handles can be removed and re-installed with a single powered
screwdriver using a single hand. That combined with the rail
modification (trim the plastic, not the aluminum) makes the whole
operation much easier than stock.
BTW, this was all done during the process of installing the PlaneAround
90degree retrofit door latch. Not only do I feel safer, but this
product fixed my entire door installation that includes the IFLYRV10
flush billet door handles and lock. There was excessive friction in the
setup and I never could completely latch the doors from the outside.
Now it all works!
Up to now, my RV10 passenger safety briefing consisted of "This is a
fantastic airplane, nothing to worry about but under no circumstances
are you to touch the doors - I open and close all doors at all times".
Now I can say, " remember this isn't car and it's not a car door so no
slamming, just pull it down and close the latch, Thank You"
Bill "Door Victory at Last - but I need to refinish the )(*&$#@$@#*^
things again" Watson
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Seat question |
On 22.10.2015 03:50, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> I did one of the rail mods some time ago and it's worth it's weight in
> gold now that I'm getting on to 5 years of flying and maintaining.
> However, I still labored at the T-handle removal and re-installation. I
> had read about how the stops could be modified for easy removal but I
> forgot about that and instead returned to the idea of nut plates on the
> T-handles.
>
Bill,
do you have some pictures of that modification?
Thanks Werner
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