Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Seat question (Bill Watson)
2. 06:58 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Dan Masys)
3. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Tim Olson)
4. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Miller John)
5. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Berck E. Nash)
6. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Bruce Breckenridge)
7. 12:21 PM - Re: Cee Baileys windows (fdombroski)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Seat question |
The load being in shear was my thinking. Given that, getting a flush
fit between the seat rail and T-pin, and being able to torque the bolts
to spec is the main (perhaps only) concern relative to an traumatic
event. This approach satisfies both needs.
The trick to getting the flush fit however is putting the Nutserts in
'backward' which allows a flush fit between the seat rail and T-pin
assembly. On one hand, the compressed Nutsert is now just pressed into
it's hole rather than have an expanded portion on the backside of a
thinner piece of material. On the other hand the lip of the Nutsert is
now resisting the pull of the bolt.
The solution involving nutplating the stop block seems ideal and it's
what I would have done in the initial build. It's taken me years to
tire of seat removal so slowly I've 1) trimmed the Delrin rail and 2)
finally Nutserted the bolts.
I thought about drilling out for tapping an AN4 bolt or something but
didn't get to the point of thinking that approach through. Doing what I
did is low risk - I can still put a long bolt, washer and nut on it if
I want (?!!), not.
I may have the threaded portion of the bolt going thru the joint but I
may be able to remedy that with the right length bolt and/or washers.
There's a nice gap between the joint face and where the threads start on
the Nutsert.
On 10/22/2015 5:15 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> Since the load is nearly all shear, I would think this is okay if you only torque
the bolts to the lower, shear load spec; this is unlikely to pull the insert
thru. But if it does happen, eventually the bolt threads will bottom out and
the bolt will have no pre-load. I note that you have to go to a shorter length
bolt (or washers under the bolt head) so that the threaded area now carries
part of the shear load, instead of 100% on the shank as in the original design.
Again, not quite as strong as the original design. I think you should try
to get at least some of the shank into the hole in the latch piece. In a typical
crash (moving forward) the seat belt will carry the imposed loads, so the latch
is really not that important. Unless you spin around 180 degres and then
suddenly stop. I have no idea if even the original design can carry your weight
plus the seat times 10(?)(g).
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448198#448198
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
citizenship of the company?
What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
out in the media before the case is tried.
-Dan Masys
Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
From: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
email to the entire list.
I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
the RV10 owners.
You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com
<mailto:support@vansaircraft.com>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
the one who answered.
grumpy
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com
> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
> To: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
>
> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
really take the wind out of
> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
for our economy and society.
> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
accident. It's sad that
> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>
> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>
> Best,
> Scott Risan
> Van's Aircraft
>
>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>
>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>
>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
settlement from your insurance company.
>>
>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>
>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
is your customer service and tech support.
>>
>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
pain.
>>
>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
100%!
>>
>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>
>> John Miller
>> Tullahoma, TN
>>
>> RV10 40404
>> RV8 83329
>>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can
get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.
Tim
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
> hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
> citizenship of the company?
>
> What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
> institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
> they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
> out in the media before the case is tried.
>
> -Dan Masys
> Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
> From: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>
> For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
> email to the entire list.
>
> I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
> the RV10 owners.
>
> You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com
> <mailto:support@vansaircraft.com>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
> the one who answered.
>
> grumpy
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com
>> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
>> To: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
>>
>> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
> really take the wind out of
>> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
> for our economy and society.
>> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
> accident. It's sad that
>> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>>
>> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>>
>> Best,
>> Scott Risan
>> Van's Aircraft
>>
>>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>>
>>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
> and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>>
>>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
> lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
> settlement from your insurance company.
>>>
>>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
> filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
> both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
> story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
> the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>>
>>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
> Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
> is your customer service and tech support.
>>>
>>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
> pain.
>>>
>>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
> 100%!
>>>
>>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>>
>>> John Miller
>>> Tullahoma, TN
>>>
>>> RV10 40404
>>> RV8 83329
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
Maybe one of our fellow RV builders who is an attorney can get the ball rolling
for us. Id sure as heck sign it.
grumpy
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can
get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.
> Tim
>
>
>
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
>> hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
>> citizenship of the company?
>>
>> What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
>> institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
>> they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
>> out in the media before the case is tried.
>>
>> -Dan Masys
>> Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 4
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
>> From: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
>> Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>>
>> For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
>> email to the entire list.
>>
>> I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
>> the RV10 owners.
>>
>> You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com
>> <mailto:support@vansaircraft.com>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
>> the one who answered.
>>
>> grumpy
>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com
>>> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>>> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
>>> To: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
>>>
>>> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
>> really take the wind out of
>>> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
>> for our economy and society.
>>> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
>> accident. It's sad that
>>> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>>>
>>> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Scott Risan
>>> Van's Aircraft
>>>
>>>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>>>
>>>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
>> and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>>>
>>>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
>> lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
>> settlement from your insurance company.
>>>>
>>>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
>> filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
>> both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
>> story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
>> the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>>>
>>>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
>> Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
>> is your customer service and tech support.
>>>>
>>>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
>> pain.
>>>>
>>>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
>> 100%!
>>>>
>>>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>>>
>>>> John Miller
>>>> Tullahoma, TN
>>>>
>>>> RV10 40404
>>>> RV8 83329
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst
who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the
quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of
care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon
for it to matter at all.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we
> can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV
> builders.
> Tim
>
>
> > On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
> > hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and
> good
> > citizenship of the company?
> >
> > What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
> > institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
> > they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions
> played
> > out in the media before the case is tried.
> >
> > -Dan Masys
> > Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 4
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
> > From: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
> >
> > For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
> > email to the entire list.
> >
> > I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the
> rest of
> > the RV10 owners.
> >
> > You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com
> > <mailto:support@vansaircraft.com>. That=92s where I sent mine and
> Scott is
> > the one who answered.
> >
> > grumpy
> >
> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >>
> >> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com
> >> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
> >> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
> >> To: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
> >>
> >> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
> > really take the wind out of
> >> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
> > for our economy and society.
> >> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
> > accident. It's sad that
> >> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
> >>
> >> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Scott Risan
> >> Van's Aircraft
> >>
> >>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
> >>>
> >>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
> > and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
> >>>
> >>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
> > lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
> > settlement from your insurance company.
> >>>
> >>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
> > filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes
> it
> > both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell
> the
> > story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation
> of
> > the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
> >>>
> >>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
> > Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best
> as
> > is your customer service and tech support.
> >>>
> >>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
> > pain.
> >>>
> >>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
> > 100%!
> >>>
> >>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
> >>>
> >>> John Miller
> >>> Tullahoma, TN
> >>>
> >>> RV10 40404
> >>> RV8 83329
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure more
will jump on board if an action takes place.
Bruce
40018
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst
> who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the
> quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of
> care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon
> for it to matter at all.
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet
>> we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand
>> RV builders.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
>> > hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and
>> good
>> > citizenship of the company?
>> >
>> > What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone
>> should
>> > institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
>> > they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions
>> played
>> > out in the media before the case is tried.
>> >
>> > -Dan Masys
>> > Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
>> >
>> > ________________________________ Message 4
>> > _____________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
>> > From: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
>> > Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>> >
>> > For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to
>> my
>> > email to the entire list.
>> >
>> > I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the
>> rest of
>> > the RV10 owners.
>> >
>> > You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com
>> > <mailto:support@vansaircraft.com>. That=92s where I sent mine and
>> Scott is
>> > the one who answered.
>> >
>> > grumpy
>> >
>> >> Begin forwarded message:
>> >>
>> >> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com
>> >> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>> >> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
>> >> To: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
>> >>
>> >> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
>> > really take the wind out of
>> >> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
>> > for our economy and society.
>> >> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
>> > accident. It's sad that
>> >> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>> >>
>> >> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Scott Risan
>> >> Van's Aircraft
>> >>
>> >>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>> >>>
>> >>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
>> > and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>> >>>
>> >>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
>> > lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a
>> big
>> > settlement from your insurance company.
>> >>>
>> >>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
>> > filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes
>> it
>> > both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell
>> the
>> > story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for
>> installation of
>> > the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
>> > Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the
>> best as
>> > is your customer service and tech support.
>> >>>
>> >>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
>> > pain.
>> >>>
>> >>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
>> > 100%!
>> >>>
>> >>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>> >>>
>> >>> John Miller
>> >>> Tullahoma, TN
>> >>>
>> >>> RV10 40404
>> >>> RV8 83329
>> >>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cee Baileys windows |
Hi Ed,
What tint did you end up ordering? Are you happy with them? I am considering
them for my next/current build. Anyone else with feedback on the C B window set?
Thanks
Frank
--------
Frank Dombroski
Multiple Offender RV-8, 7A, 10 x 2
RV-10 2.0 N46VT 2015
KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448231#448231
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