---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/24/15: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:33 AM - FS: Alternator for C-172, C-182, C-210 (Barry) 2. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (David Leikam) 3. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Jesse Saint) 4. 01:44 PM - ADSB (DLM) 5. 03:04 PM - Re: ADSB (Bob Turner) 6. 04:06 PM - Re: ADSB (Jack Philips) 7. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: ADSB (Kelly McMullen) 8. 05:49 PM - Re: ADSB (Dj Merrill) 9. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (John Cox) 10. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Rick Lark) 11. 10:21 PM - $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Lenny Iszak) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:35 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: FS: Alternator for C-172, C-182, C-210 From: "Barry" Yellow tagged p/n DOFF10300J for C-172, C-182, C210 and others with 14V systems. $390.00 which includes shipping in the ConUS, and PayPal fees. Barry Marz blmarzaa@gmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448241#448241 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:19 AM PST US From: David Leikam Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause I=99m in. Dave Leikam N89DA 40496 > On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Bruce Breckenridge wrote: > > There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure more will jump on board if an action takes place. > > Bruce > 40018 > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash > wrote: > I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon for it to matter at all. > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson > wrote: > > > Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders. > Tim > > > > > On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys > wrote: > > > > > > > Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by > > hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good > > citizenship of the company? > > > > What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should > > institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage > > they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played > > out in the media before the case is tried. > > > > -Dan Masys > > Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US > > From: Miller John > > > Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit > > > > For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my > > email to the entire list. > > > > I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of > > the RV10 owners. > > > > You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com > > >. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is > > the one who answered. > > > > grumpy > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com > >> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit > >> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT > >> To: Miller John > > >> > >> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can > > really take the wind out of > >> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad > > for our economy and society. > >> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this > > accident. It's sad that > >> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily. > >> > >> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van. > >> > >> Best, > >> Scott Risan > >> Van's Aircraft > >> > >>> Dear Dick and all of your employees, > >>> > >>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company > > and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year. > >>> > >>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these > > lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big > > settlement from your insurance company. > >>> > >>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was > > filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it > > both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the > > story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of > > the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together. > >>> > >>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8. > > Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as > > is your customer service and tech support. > >>> > >>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much > > pain. > >>> > >>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you > > 100%! > >>> > >>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me! > >>> > >>> John Miller > >>> Tullahoma, TN > >>> > >>> RV10 40404 > >>> RV8 83329 > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:48 AM PST US From: Jesse Saint Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause Me too. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 24, 2015, at 2:00 PM, David Leikam wrote: > > I=99m in. > > Dave Leikam > N89DA > 40496 > >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Bruce Breckenridge wrote: >> >> There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure mo re will jump on board if an action takes place. >> >> Bruce >> 40018 >> >>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash wrote: >>> I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the qual ity of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon for it t o matter at all. >>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders. >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys wrot e: >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed b y >>>> > hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good >>>> > citizenship of the company? >>>> > >>>> > What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone sh ould >>>> > institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation dam age >>>> > they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions p layed >>>> > out in the media before the case is tried. >>>> > >>>> > -Dan Masys >>>> > Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play >>>> > >>>> > ________________________________ Message 4 >>>> > _____________________________________ >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US >>>> > From: Miller John >>>> > Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit >>>> > >>>> > For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response t o my >>>> > email to the entire list. >>>> > >>>> > I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the r est of >>>> > the RV10 owners. >>>> > >>>> > You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com >>>> > . That=92s where I sent mine and S cott is >>>> > the one who answered. >>>> > >>>> > grumpy >>>> > >>>> >> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >> >>>> >> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com >>>> >> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit >>>> >> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT >>>> >> To: Miller John >>>> >> >>>> >> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can >>>> > really take the wind out of >>>> >> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad >>>> > for our economy and society. >>>> >> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for th is >>>> > accident. It's sad that >>>> >> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily. >>>> >> >>>> >> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van. >>>> >> >>>> >> Best, >>>> >> Scott Risan >>>> >> Van's Aircraft >>>> >> >>>> >>> Dear Dick and all of your employees, >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company >>>> > and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that the se >>>> > lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big >>>> > settlement from your insurance company. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was >>>> > filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law m akes it >>>> > both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tel l the >>>> > story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installat ion of >>>> > the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8. >>>> > Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the b est as >>>> > is your customer service and tech support. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too mu ch >>>> > pain. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you >>>> > 100%! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> John Miller >>>> >>> Tullahoma, TN >>>> >>> >>>> >>> RV10 40404 >>>> >>> RV8 83329 >>>> >>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> ========== >>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?RV10-List >>>> ========== >>>> FORUMS - >>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> b Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion >>>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> class="">http://forums.matronics.com >> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:22 PM PST US From: "DLM" Subject: RV10-List: ADSB Having used ADSB in/out for the last six months, I believe there is a problem coming. At airports below radar coverage there are going to be gaps in the traffic info after 2020. My aircraft is a hybrid system which uses 1090 for broadcast and receives both 1090/30 and 987 (UAT) It is my understanding that the on board receivers receive only on about two meters and the ADSB transceivers use the same about two meter frequency. At E60 radar coverage from PHX TRACON and ABQ center extends down to about 2500MSL. The airport surface is about 1500 MSL. If an aircraft using the UAT frequency is preparing to takeoff and I am preparing to land. I don't believe he will be able to "see" me on his traffic since I will be transmitting on the 1090 channel. I will be able to "see" him on my system because I receive directly both systems. Even though we both should be able to be "listening" to an ADSB transceiver on about two meters, the rebroadcast will not show either aircraft because both are below radar coverage for PHX TRACON and ABQ center. The same sort of thing occurs at KAVQ and others. The problem is acute in areas that are sparsely populated with mountainous terrain. Any others experience with this using ADSB? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:08 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: ADSB From: "Bob Turner" First of all, there is no '2 meter' broadcast. You listed the frequencies used - both around 1GHz or 30 cm wavelength. Second, what matters is the location of ADSB rebroadcast stations (-C). There may be one at your airport. But, generally speaking, you are correct. Low aircraft may be unable to receive ground station broadcasts. Of course, unless you are in class B, C, or the class B mode C veil, or above 10,000', there is no requirement for an aircraft to be ADSB equipped at all. You still need to see and avoid. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448251#448251 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:09 PM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: RV10-List: ADSB Oh my God! You mean we'll actually have to look out our windshields, instead of watching cockpit TV? Don't get too reliant on ADSB. At those same airports with poor ADSB coverage, there are still plenty of NORDO airplanes flying that ADSB will NEVER see. While flying my Pietenpol Air Camper, I was almost run over by a Diamond DA-40 whose driver (I won't call him a pilot) was too busy playing with his glass cockpit to look out the window for traffic. See and Be Seen is still the law of the land. Jack Phillips #40610 Fuselage Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 4:41 PM Subject: RV10-List: ADSB Having used ADSB in/out for the last six months, I believe there is a problem coming. At airports below radar coverage there are going to be gaps in the traffic info after 2020. My aircraft is a hybrid system which uses 1090 for broadcast and receives both 1090/30 and 987 (UAT) It is my understanding that the on board receivers receive only on about two meters and the ADSB transceivers use the same about two meter frequency. At E60 radar coverage from PHX TRACON and ABQ center extends down to about 2500MSL. The airport surface is about 1500 MSL. If an aircraft using the UAT frequency is preparing to takeoff and I am preparing to land. I don't believe he will be able to "see" me on his traffic since I will be transmitting on the 1090 channel. I will be able to "see" him on my system because I receive directly both systems. Even though we both should be able to be "listening" to an ADSB transceiver on about two meters, the rebroadcast will not show either aircraft because both are below radar coverage for PHX TRACON and ABQ center. The same sort of thing occurs at KAVQ and others. The problem is acute in areas that are sparsely populated with mountainous terrain. Any others experience with this using ADSB? _____ This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: ADSB From: Kelly McMullen Correct. Radar is mostly irrelevant, and many terminal radar sites will be shut down after 2020. The ground stations are only designed to provide coverage to aircraft at or above 1500 AGL, so there is no coverage for traffic taking off or landing unless there happens to be a ground station very nearby. At FFZ you are fortunate to have a ground station right there. It is too bad there won't be all that much coverage at CGZ with all the instrument training and practice that happens there. On 10/24/2015 3:00 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > First of all, there is no '2 meter' broadcast. You listed the frequencies used - both around 1GHz or 30 cm wavelength. > Second, what matters is the location of ADSB rebroadcast stations (-C). There may be one at your airport. > But, generally speaking, you are correct. Low aircraft may be unable to receive ground station broadcasts. Of course, unless you are in class B, C, or the class B mode C veil, or above 10,000', there is no requirement for an aircraft to be ADSB equipped at all. > You still need to see and avoid. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448251#448251 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADSB From: Dj Merrill On 10/24/2015 4:40 PM, DLM wrote: > The airport surface is about 1500 MSL. If an aircraft using the UAT > frequency is preparing to takeoff and I am preparing to land. I don't > believe he will be able to "see" me on his traffic since I will be > transmitting on the 1090 channel. I will be able to "see" him on my > system because I receive directly both systems. Even though we both > should be able to be "listening" to an ADSB transceiver on about two > meters, the rebroadcast will not show either aircraft because both are > below radar coverage for PHX TRACON and ABQ center. The same sort of > thing occurs at KAVQ and others. The problem is acute in areas that are > sparsely populated with mountainous terrain. What frequency do you believe is being used near two meters? My understanding is that UATs are using 987 Mhz and ES transponders are using 1090 Mhz, and those are the only two frequencies being used for ADS-B. The ground station rebroadcasters are listening/transmitting between these two frequencies. I believe you are correct in terms of the aircraft only receiving on 987 Mhz not being able to see you transmitting on 1090 Mhz because there will be no rebroadcast ground station in range. It is for that reason that I believe most people are equipping with receivers that cover both frequencies. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87 Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause From: John Cox Without maligning scores of builders out there. The message should be that Experimental Built Aircraft are NOT Part 23 Certificated Production Aircraft and any builder using RTV rubber sealant in their fuel system needs to stop and seek free EAA Technical Assistance. Atta Boy's for VANS does not reduce the accident, incident and loss of life rate one IOTA. Too often we see stupidity in a build and then I am reminded that each builder makes the decisions and choices "they ultimately OWN". VANS is only a well respected parts provider. I have yet to find them supplying RTV or recommending its use on fuel fittings. Portland, Oregon attorneys will litigate anyone and anything - anytime to "Keep Portland WEIRD". John Cox On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:00 AM, David Leikam wrote: > I=99m in. > > Dave Leikam > N89DA > 40496 > > On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Bruce Breckenridge > wrote: > > There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure > more will jump on board if an action takes place. > > Bruce > 40018 > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash wrote: > >> I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst >> who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the >> quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of >> care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon >> for it to matter at all. >> >> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >>> >>> Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet >>> we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thou sand >>> RV builders. >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> > On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys >>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > >>> > Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed b y >>> > hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and >>> good >>> > citizenship of the company? >>> > >>> > What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone >>> should >>> > institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation >>> damage >>> > they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions >>> played >>> > out in the media before the case is tried. >>> > >>> > -Dan Masys >>> > Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play >>> > >>> > ________________________________ Message 4 >>> > _____________________________________ >>> > >>> > >>> > Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US >>> > From: Miller John >>> > Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit >>> > >>> > For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response t o >>> my >>> > email to the entire list. >>> > >>> > I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the >>> rest of >>> > the RV10 owners. >>> > >>> > You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com >>> > . That=92s where I sent mine and >>> Scott is >>> > the one who answered. >>> > >>> > grumpy >>> > >>> >> Begin forwarded message: >>> >> >>> >> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com >>> >> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit >>> >> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT >>> >> To: Miller John >>> >> >>> >> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can >>> > really take the wind out of >>> >> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad >>> > for our economy and society. >>> >> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for th is >>> > accident. It's sad that >>> >> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily. >>> >> >>> >> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van. >>> >> >>> >> Best, >>> >> Scott Risan >>> >> Van's Aircraft >>> >> >>> >>> Dear Dick and all of your employees, >>> >>> >>> >>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company >>> > and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year. >>> >>> >>> >>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that the se >>> > lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a >>> big >>> > settlement from your insurance company. >>> >>> >>> >>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was >>> > filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law >>> makes it >>> > both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tel l >>> the >>> > story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for >>> installation of >>> > the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8. >>> > Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the >>> best as >>> > is your customer service and tech support. >>> >>> >>> >>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too mu ch >>> > pain. >>> >>> >>> >>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you >>> > 100%! >>> >>> >>> >>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me! >>> >>> >>> >>> John Miller >>> >>> Tullahoma, TN >>> >>> >>> >>> RV10 40404 >>> >>> RV8 83329 >>> >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > * > > class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > class="">http://forums.matronics.com > class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > =========== onics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause From: Rick Lark Been talking to some Canadian RV10er's and we all feel the same. Van's doesn't deserve this BS lawsuit. Count us in too...... Rick #40956 Southampton, Ont Final assembly in progress......... On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 9:45 PM, John Cox wrote: > Without maligning scores of builders out there. The message should be > that Experimental Built Aircraft are NOT Part 23 Certificated Production > Aircraft and any builder using RTV rubber sealant in their fuel system > needs to stop and seek free EAA Technical Assistance. Atta Boy's for VAN S > does not reduce the accident, incident and loss of life rate one IOTA. > > Too often we see stupidity in a build and then I am reminded that each > builder makes the decisions and choices "they ultimately OWN". VANS is > only a well respected parts provider. I have yet to find them supplying > RTV or recommending its use on fuel fittings. > > Portland, Oregon attorneys will litigate anyone and anything - anytime t o > "Keep Portland WEIRD". > > John Cox > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:00 AM, David Leikam wrote : > >> I=99m in. >> >> Dave Leikam >> N89DA >> 40496 >> >> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Bruce Breckenridge >> wrote: >> >> There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure >> more will jump on board if an action takes place. >> >> Bruce >> 40018 >> >> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash wrote: >> >>> I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our mids t >>> who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the >>> quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standar d of >>> care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soo n >>> for it to matter at all. >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I be t >>>> we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few tho usand >>>> RV builders. >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys >>>> wrote: >>>> > u >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by >>>> > hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, an d >>>> good >>>> > citizenship of the company? >>>> > >>>> > What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone >>>> should >>>> > institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation >>>> damage >>>> > they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions >>>> played >>>> > out in the media before the case is tried. >>>> > >>>> > -Dan Masys >>>> > Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul pla y >>>> > >>>> > ________________________________ Message 4 >>>> > _____________________________________ >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US >>>> > From: Miller John >>>> > Subject: RV10-List: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit >>>> > >>>> > For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response >>>> to my >>>> > email to the entire list. >>>> > >>>> > I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the >>>> rest of >>>> > the RV10 owners. >>>> > >>>> > You can send your comments to support@vansaircraft.com >>>> > . That=92s where I sent mine and >>>> Scott is >>>> > the one who answered. >>>> > >>>> > grumpy >>>> > >>>> >> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >> >>>> >> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com >>>> >> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit >>>> >> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT >>>> >> To: Miller John >>>> >> >>>> >> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can >>>> > really take the wind out of >>>> >> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's ba d >>>> > for our economy and society. >>>> >> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for >>>> this >>>> > accident. It's sad that >>>> >> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily. >>>> >> >>>> >> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van. >>>> >> >>>> >> Best, >>>> >> Scott Risan >>>> >> Van's Aircraft >>>> >> >>>> >>> Dear Dick and all of your employees, >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company >>>> > and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that >>>> these >>>> > lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a >>>> big >>>> > settlement from your insurance company. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was >>>> > filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law >>>> makes it >>>> > both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation >>>> tell the >>>> > story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for >>>> installation of >>>> > the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8. >>>> > Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the >>>> best as >>>> > is your customer service and tech support. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too >>>> much >>>> > pain. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support yo u >>>> > 100%! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> John Miller >>>> >>> Tullahoma, TN >>>> >>> >>>> >>> RV10 40404 >>>> >>> RV8 83329 >>>> >>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> ========== >>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> ========== >>>> FORUMS - >>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> b Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion >>>> ========== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> * >>> >>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> * >>> >>> >> * >> >> class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> class="">http://forums.matronics.com >> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > * > =========== onics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:28 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause From: "Lenny Iszak" Count me in too, Lenny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448262#448262 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.