Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:30 AM - Soundproofing the QB fuselage (whodja)
2. 06:37 AM - Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage (bill.peyton)
3. 06:54 AM - Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage (whodja)
4. 08:40 AM - $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Hugo)
5. 09:56 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Phillip Perry)
6. 10:22 AM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Tim Olson)
7. 11:49 AM - lawsuit defense was $35M Lawsuit defense was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Linn Walters)
8. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Jae Chang)
9. 01:11 PM - $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Hugo)
10. 04:17 PM - Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause (Phillip Perry)
11. 06:50 PM - Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage (Bob Turner)
12. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage (Kelly McMullen)
13. 07:50 PM - Re: Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage (Linn Walters)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Soundproofing the QB fuselage |
Has anyone installed soundproofing in a QB fuselage? I am trying to figure out
if I can even remove the fwd cp floor pans to install sound proofing. Any suggestions
welcome.
Thanks
Tal
Fuselage/empennage together
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448265#448265
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| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage |
I am sure if you use the search function for this forum, or the VAF RV-10 forum
you will find numerous posts on this subject, but to answer your question. Yes,
many folks have insulated under the front floor and also some have installed
fireproofing material such as fiberfrax etc. under the floor pan and in the
tunnel. I insulated my entire QB fuse. I am not sure how much sound deadening
I really accomplished, or whether I would do it again, but I can tell you it
stays nice and warm in the cold winters. It's not easy to remove the floor,
but it can be done.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448266#448266
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| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage |
Temp insulation was also another benefit that I would like.
Thanks Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448267#448267
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
Hey Guys
At This point I thinks all the necessary ingredients are here to start a serious
Action to stop before this attack against home built community start,
And I thinks some member with a good idea of communications can be involved
Every body ,regardless of plane they built.
Because this is not against Vans,it's against the future of our rights to build
our planes and use with some relative freedom.
Then ,my first idea , and I hope plenty will come.
Is choose the person will hold the money,yes we need money,
I will start to donate to the future trust account a 11 ft brand new roll up inflatable
boat for auction ( cost 3k) ,for start the donations.
It's my first action idea,
,one note ,we need to be careful and not allow the big boys for not profit to
Hijack the real reasons why we do this.
Hope some one agree we need to act immediately ,and start shooting real action
ideas.
Please forgive my writing accent.
Hugo
--------
My wife it's always right
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448268#448268
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
I think we all are wasting our time doing anything unless we are cooperating with
the legal team representing Vans.
We can sign documents, make statements, do whatever we want. But if it doesn't
fit in their plan and their message and their strategy, then we're accomplishing
nothing significant.
A better approach is to work with the legal team, present what we can offer, and
let them write the document in their words (if they choose to present it), with
their points they want to reenforce, and make sure that any efforts we make
actually dovetail with their strategy.
A document drafted by their legal team can be guaranteed to support their message.
A document draft from the outside could submarine their points and potentially
case.
It's better to coordinate with those actually representing those in the court room.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Hugo <Gommone7@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Guys
> At This point I thinks all the necessary ingredients are here to start a serious
> Action to stop before this attack against home built community start,
> And I thinks some member with a good idea of communications can be involved
> Every body ,regardless of plane they built.
> Because this is not against Vans,it's against the future of our rights to build
our planes and use with some relative freedom.
> Then ,my first idea , and I hope plenty will come.
> Is choose the person will hold the money,yes we need money,
> I will start to donate to the future trust account a 11 ft brand new roll up
inflatable boat for auction ( cost 3k) ,for start the donations.
> It's my first action idea,
> ,one note ,we need to be careful and not allow the big boys for not profit to
> Hijack the real reasons why we do this.
> Hope some one agree we need to act immediately ,and start shooting real action
ideas.
> Please forgive my writing accent.
> Hugo
>
> --------
> My wife it's always right
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448268#448268
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
+1 on that. Very sensible.
Tim
Ps: with so many anti aviation things these days I feel we have a responsibility
to participate when we can. Like when EAA and AOPA do
The calls to action, I try to actually send faxes and emails to my elected representatives.
It may not work, but what will never work is being silent.
So if someone does indeed take this to the legal team and there is a mass signed
letter, I'm in. It never pays to be silent.
> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:35 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I think we all are wasting our time doing anything unless we are cooperating
with the legal team representing Vans.
>
> We can sign documents, make statements, do whatever we want. But if it doesn't
fit in their plan and their message and their strategy, then we're accomplishing
nothing significant.
>
> A better approach is to work with the legal team, present what we can offer,
and let them write the document in their words (if they choose to present it),
with their points they want to reenforce, and make sure that any efforts we make
actually dovetail with their strategy.
>
> A document drafted by their legal team can be guaranteed to support their message.
A document draft from the outside could submarine their points and potentially
case.
>
> It's better to coordinate with those actually representing those in the court
room.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Hugo <Gommone7@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hey Guys
>> At This point I thinks all the necessary ingredients are here to start a serious
>> Action to stop before this attack against home built community start,
>> And I thinks some member with a good idea of communications can be involved
>> Every body ,regardless of plane they built.
>> Because this is not against Vans,it's against the future of our rights to build
our planes and use with some relative freedom.
>> Then ,my first idea , and I hope plenty will come.
>> Is choose the person will hold the money,yes we need money,
>> I will start to donate to the future trust account a 11 ft brand new roll up
inflatable boat for auction ( cost 3k) ,for start the donations.
>> It's my first action idea,
>> ,one note ,we need to be careful and not allow the big boys for not profit to
>> Hijack the real reasons why we do this.
>> Hope some one agree we need to act immediately ,and start shooting real action
ideas.
>> Please forgive my writing accent.
>> Hugo
>>
>> --------
>> My wife it's always right
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448268#448268
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: lawsuit defense was $35M Lawsuit defense was Re: NTSB - Probable |
Cause
+1 for me too. I don't have the time (or inclination really) to spend
on things that never will matter in the long run. One of our more
eloquent builders might talk to Vans covering the points in this
'defense' thread and let them pass on the info. Many on this list have
the expertise to actually become an 'expert witness'.
So my vote is to let Vans know and let them put the strategy together.
Linn .... painting
PS I changed the subject
On 10/25/2015 1:18 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> +1 on that. Very sensible.
> Tim
>
> Ps: with so many anti aviation things these days I feel we have a responsibility
to participate when we can. Like when EAA and AOPA do
> The calls to action, I try to actually send faxes and emails to my elected representatives.
It may not work, but what will never work is being silent.
> So if someone does indeed take this to the legal team and there is a mass signed
letter, I'm in. It never pays to be silent.
>
>
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:35 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think we all are wasting our time doing anything unless we are cooperating
with the legal team representing Vans.
>>
>> We can sign documents, make statements, do whatever we want. But if it doesn't
fit in their plan and their message and their strategy, then we're accomplishing
nothing significant.
>>
>> A better approach is to work with the legal team, present what we can offer,
and let them write the document in their words (if they choose to present it),
with their points they want to reenforce, and make sure that any efforts we
make actually dovetail with their strategy.
>>
>> A document drafted by their legal team can be guaranteed to support their message.
A document draft from the outside could submarine their points and potentially
case.
>>
>> It's better to coordinate with those actually representing those in the court
room.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Hugo <Gommone7@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Guys
>>> At This point I thinks all the necessary ingredients are here to start a serious
>>> Action to stop before this attack against home built community start,
>>> And I thinks some member with a good idea of communications can be involved
>>> Every body ,regardless of plane they built.
>>> Because this is not against Vans,it's against the future of our rights to build
our planes and use with some relative freedom.
>>> Then ,my first idea , and I hope plenty will come.
>>> Is choose the person will hold the money,yes we need money,
>>> I will start to donate to the future trust account a 11 ft brand new roll up
inflatable boat for auction ( cost 3k) ,for start the donations.
>>> It's my first action idea,
>>> ,one note ,we need to be careful and not allow the big boys for not profit
to
>>> Hijack the real reasons why we do this.
>>> Hope some one agree we need to act immediately ,and start shooting real action
ideas.
>>> Please forgive my writing accent.
>>> Hugo
>>>
>>> --------
>>> My wife it's always right
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448268#448268
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
I also like perusing some other non-RV aviation forums, and it seems
that 95+% of the comments are highly critical of the lawsuit. I think
everyone in GA recognizes this is an attack not just on RV's or EAB's
but on GA in general as well. It harkens back to the legal shenanigans
on the industry back in 1985. In addition in the NTSB report, there is
mention of electrical failure, screens going black, and i think everyone
agrees a stall spin into the ground. Those are all things any airplane
could potentially experience. It seems like the whole of GA is highly
critical against this suit.
--
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
Hi Phill
You see ,with your approach the bad guys and the standard legal system already
win,
Let me tell you how this will go so we don't waste any more effort in discuss and
do nothing.
The insurance will send a good guy to talk with the bad guy,the bad guy will try
to waste the more time as possible, as you know they charge by hour.
Then after hundred of billing hours the good guy and the bad guy will seat at the
table with the Mediator and after another 10 or more hours they will arrange
may be 5 million to suck from the insurance.
At this point the bad guy already billed the unfortunate lady 4.8 mill
The insurance will have a bill may be for 3 mill.
Vans will receive an increase in the premium because they built very unsafe kits;
the other insurance will rise the premium to all kit companies because now
they can be suit and on ,and on......
Guess who loose.
The guys who dream to build a plane in the garage.
I can go for days here to explain how the legal system works.
Now.
If really any body can suit any body here it's the catch in our favor.
May be there is a good guy in this list who built an Rv or any other kit and remember
what he swear when he graduate and could tell us how (independently of
this lawsuit to Vans)
We can go after this bad guy and start make him loosing money and time
And defend our rights.
Because after all we are in the Land of the Free
And we have freedom of Speech .......or it's only for the Show?
For the records:
10 years ago we hire a good guy(girl) with 10 k we collected from neighbors
And we stop a development behind our houses.
I thinks if we can act as a single entity and suit this guy ,we can send a good
Message,
Who knows
May be Cessna; Cirrus; AFS and others who can be affected or punish for the some
times corrupt legal system may join us!
--------
My wife it's always right
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448276#448276
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
The problem is that if you don't work with them to on the document, it will
never get admitted in court. You can't just walk in there and drop it on
the table.
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Hugo <Gommone7@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Phill
> You see ,with your approach the bad guys and the standard legal system
> already win,
> Let me tell you how this will go so we don't waste any more effort in
> discuss and do nothing.
> The insurance will send a good guy to talk with the bad guy,the bad guy
> will try to waste the more time as possible, as you know they charge by
> hour.
> Then after hundred of billing hours the good guy and the bad guy will seat
> at the table with the Mediator and after another 10 or more hours they will
> arrange may be 5 million to suck from the insurance.
> At this point the bad guy already billed the unfortunate lady 4.8 mill
> The insurance will have a bill may be for 3 mill.
> Vans will receive an increase in the premium because they built very
> unsafe kits; the other insurance will rise the premium to all kit
> companies because now they can be suit and on ,and on......
> Guess who loose.
> The guys who dream to build a plane in the garage.
> I can go for days here to explain how the legal system works.
> Now.
> If really any body can suit any body here it's the catch in our favor.
> May be there is a good guy in this list who built an Rv or any other kit
> and remember what he swear when he graduate and could tell us how
> (independently of this lawsuit to Vans)
> We can go after this bad guy and start make him loosing money and time
> And defend our rights.
> Because after all we are in the Land of the Free
> And we have freedom of Speech .......or it's only for the Show?
> For the records:
> 10 years ago we hire a good guy(girl) with 10 k we collected from neighbors
> And we stop a development behind our houses.
> I thinks if we can act as a single entity and suit this guy ,we can send a
> good
> Message,
> Who knows
> May be Cessna; Cirrus; AFS and others who can be affected or punish for
> the some times corrupt legal system may join us!
>
> --------
> My wife it's always right
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448276#448276
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage |
I think Bill's comments are right on. Even a minimal effort seems to improve the
thermal insulation. But it takes a major effort (and added weight) to make any
real difference in noise. One issue is the way most humans judge sound levels.
It takes about a 30% decrease in sound intensity before the average person
can detect any change at all!
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448281#448281
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage |
The general rules of thumb are that it takes 3 dBA change for most humans
to detect. 10 dBA is an order of magnitude change, roughly 50% less sound
energy in the decreasing direction.
All noise scales are logarithmic.
If you can get your cabin from 100 dBA to 90 you will think it is a major
change.
There are a lot of factors involved. Frequency, vs pulsation. Exhaust vs
prop noise. Noise through windshield vs noise through firewall vs noise
through belly or fuselage sides. Noise also decreases fairly rapidly with
distance. Back seat should be less than front seat. Does your insulation
tend to reduce vibration of the exterior skins or not.
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> I think Bill's comments are right on. Even a minimal effort seems to
> improve the thermal insulation. But it takes a major effort (and added
> weight) to make any real difference in noise. One issue is the way most
> humans judge sound levels. It takes about a 30% decrease in sound intensity
> before the average person can detect any change at all!
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448281#448281
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage |
I think the best soundproofing is 4 real good headsets!!
I'm amazed at the noise in any airplane when you remove the headset.
I think the Ps and Cs limit soundproofing to a firewall blanket on the
cabin side.
Linn
On 10/25/2015 10:18 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> The general rules of thumb are that it takes 3 dBA change for most
> humans to detect. 10 dBA is an order of magnitude change, roughly 50%
> less sound energy in the decreasing direction.
> All noise scales are logarithmic.
> If you can get your cabin from 100 dBA to 90 you will think it is a
> major change.
> There are a lot of factors involved. Frequency, vs pulsation. Exhaust
> vs prop noise. Noise through windshield vs noise through firewall vs
> noise through belly or fuselage sides. Noise also decreases fairly
> rapidly with distance. Back seat should be less than front seat. Does
> your insulation tend to reduce vibration of the exterior skins or not.
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu
> <mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>> wrote:
>
> <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu <mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>>
>
> I think Bill's comments are right on. Even a minimal effort seems
> to improve the thermal insulation. But it takes a major effort
> (and added weight) to make any real difference in noise. One issue
> is the way most humans judge sound levels. It takes about a 30%
> decrease in sound intensity before the average person can detect
> any change at all!
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
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