Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:44 AM - Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage (johngoodman)
2. 07:48 AM - More on the RV10 lawsuit (Miller John)
3. 08:23 AM - lawsuit (David)
4. 10:32 AM - The Oregon RV10 lawsuit (Miller John)
5. 11:00 AM - Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit (Justin Jones)
6. 11:56 AM - Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit (Bob Turner)
7. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage (John Cox)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage |
I used Abesco FP200. It is easy to install, and it really gives the cabin floors
a solid feel. No cold feet, either.
http://www.fp200abesco.com/
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448285#448285
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fp200_502.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | More on the RV10 lawsuit |
Van's Lawsuit Seen As Attack On Kit Industry
<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Vans-Lawsuit-Seen-As-Attack-On-Kit-I
ndustry-225066-1.html>
By Russ Niles
Van's Aircraft is warning that a $35 million lawsuit filed against it in
Oregon might actually be an indictment of the whole kit aircraft
business. The family of a four-year-old girl who died in an RV-10 flown
by her step-grandfather claims the kit manufacturer creates the
unreasonable expectation that people who lack skills and training can
successfully build safe aircraft. In an interview with Reuters, Van's
president, Scott Risan, said it's not just Van's that will be on trial.
"We do a really good job with the safety of the airplanes," Risan told
Reuters. "It's up to the builder to use good judgment when they are
building and maintaining the airplane. The lawsuit seems to be kind of
attacking the industry in general and that's unfortunate." The NTSB
blamed the accident on a blocked fuel line followed by a stall.
Doug Nebert, a well-known and experienced RV builder from Newport,
Oregon, was taking off from Toledo, Oregon, when the aircraft had engine
trouble on May 31, 2014, and crashed in the parking lot of a paper mill.
Nebert and his four-year-old step-granddaughter, Zoe Wahl, died. Wahl's
mother, April Gleason, was severely injured. Gleason's lawyer, Matthew
Clarke, told Reuters the building instructions are inadequate and it
also named Floscan Instruments in the suit, claiming the fuel flow
transducer it supplied was unsafe. The NTSB blamed Nebert, however. It
said the accident was caused by a loss of engine power due to fuel
starvation from the blocked fuel line, likely from a bead of silicone in
a recently installed fuel flow transducer. It blamed the blocked fuel
line on Nebert's "improper maintenance practices" and the accident on
his "subsequent failure to maintain adequate airspeed while attempting a
forced landing." The suit says there should have been a bypass around
the transducer to prevent a blockage.
Message 3
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I hear much weeping and wailing about the lawsuit against Vans; I am sorry
they are entangled with the legal system here in the USA which always looks
for someone else to blame; preferably someone who has some assets. Builders
who have significant personal assets should investigate the partnership laws
of their respective states. The partnership laws are usually set up to be a
physician/attorney protection arrangement. If they, in court, are able to
breach those laws they commit financial hari kari by overriding the laws on
the books to protect their financial assets. Partnership laws usually
provide that partnerships can be sued but any payout may come sometime in
the future (well outside the lifetime of the plaintiff/attorney) and any
accrued payout is taxable income in the year accrued. Precedents count.
---
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Message 4
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| Subject: | The Oregon RV10 lawsuit |
As suggested by others, I reached out to Scott this am to offer our
support to their legal team.
I=92ll let you all know how we can help whenever Scott or their legal
team decides what they need.
grumpy
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com
> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
> Date: October 26, 2015 at 12:18:34 PM CDT
> To: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
>
> John, I've passed this same question on to our primary lawyer. He
hasn't
> responded yet but I'll certainly let you know if there is something
we'd like
> you or others to do. Again, we REALLY appreciate the support! It is
a true
> morale booster.
>
> Best, Scott/Van's
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> There is now a lot of chatter on the RV10 builder=B4s net about
wanting to help you guys.
>>
>> Is there a way we builders can help support your legal team?
>>
>> We are ready and willing to help - just tell us how we can help!
>>
>> John
>>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit |
Does Vans make their customers who purchase a kit or kit components, sign a l
iability release or a hold harmless agreement? Not that a good attorney can'
t get around it.
Justin
> On Oct 26, 2015, at 11:29, Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com> wrote:
>
> As suggested by others, I reached out to Scott this am to offer our suppor
t to their legal team.
>
> I=99ll let you all know how we can help whenever Scott or their lega
l team decides what they need.
>
> grumpy
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: srisan@vansaircraft.com
>> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>> Date: October 26, 2015 at 12:18:34 PM CDT
>> To: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
>>
>> John, I've passed this same question on to our primary lawyer. He hasn'
t
>> responded yet but I'll certainly let you know if there is something we'd l
ike
>> you or others to do. Again, we REALLY appreciate the support! It is a t
rue
>> morale booster.
>>
>> Best, Scott/Van's
>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> There is now a lot of chatter on the RV10 builder=C2=B4s net about wanti
ng to help you guys.
>>>
>>> Is there a way we builders can help support your legal team?
>>>
>>> We are ready and willing to help - just tell us how we can help!
>>>
>>> John
>
>
>
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit |
One issue with 'hold harmless' agreements is that in most states one person may
not sign away the rights of others. e.g., while the builder, now deceased, may
have agreed not to sue, neither he nor Vans can apply that agreement to others,
such as his step daughter or her child.
The real reasons such suits exist is that most states have unrestricted 'deep pockets'
laws. If a jury should find the builder 99% responsible, and Vans 1% responsible
(maybe because 'Do not use RTV was not printed in red, or 5 point type,
or whatever), Vans would be on the hook for virtually the entire award, not
withstanding the 1% judgement (assuming the builder's estate had no where near
enough assets to pay its share). So the plantiff knows that it just has to
convince most of a jury that Vans was just a tiny bit responsible, and they get
a huge payday from a sympathetic jury.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448296#448296
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing the QB fuselage |
Kelly thanks for bringing it back from transgressing to Thermal from
Acoustic infiltration. You remind me of Dan Newland's posts and his
lecture at OSH on material, cost, effort and resulting gains. Sound and
Thermal are two separate pursuits. Beginning with the source helps the
remediation.
Dan used to work at ORCO down in Emeryville, CA before moving to the NW and
tackling insulation on high end boats with Pegasus.
John Cox
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
> The general rules of thumb are that it takes 3 dBA change for most humans
> to detect. 10 dBA is an order of magnitude change, roughly 50% less sound
> energy in the decreasing direction.
> All noise scales are logarithmic.
> If you can get your cabin from 100 dBA to 90 you will think it is a major
> change.
> There are a lot of factors involved. Frequency, vs pulsation. Exhaust vs
> prop noise. Noise through windshield vs noise through firewall vs noise
> through belly or fuselage sides. Noise also decreases fairly rapidly with
> distance. Back seat should be less than front seat. Does your insulation
> tend to reduce vibration of the exterior skins or not.
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think Bill's comments are right on. Even a minimal effort seems to
>> improve the thermal insulation. But it takes a major effort (and added
>> weight) to make any real difference in noise. One issue is the way most
>> humans judge sound levels. It takes about a 30% decrease in sound intensity
>> before the average person can detect any change at all!
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448281#448281
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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