Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:32 AM - Battery Cable (Steven DeFord)
2. 12:28 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Linn Walters)
3. 12:43 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Kelly McMullen)
4. 12:48 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Bob Leffler)
5. 12:50 PM - Re: Battery Cable (David Saylor)
6. 12:50 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Carl Froehlich)
7. 02:33 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Bob Turner)
8. 03:21 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Don McDonald)
9. 03:41 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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Quick question-- for the main battery cable(s), obviously the + lead needs
to run forward, but have people been putting in a grounding wire up to the
engine block & starter, or just chassis grounding? Seems like there are a
few pounds to save if you don't have to run a ground wire, and I imagine
that the battery/alternator/etc aren't especially noise/ground loop
sensitive.
Steve
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
I ran a separate #2 ground wire all the way to (and through) the
firewall and on to the ground straps that go around the engine isolators.
This gave me a good, solid ground to the engine for starting and also
gives me a good ground for the instrument panel. I thought long and
hard about the additional weight and decided it was better to add the
weight than be stranded trying to start with a weak battery.
I'm not flying yet so I can's say that I made the correct decision.
You're correct on the ground loops.
Linn
On 1/10/2016 2:07 PM, Steven DeFord wrote:
> Quick question-- for the main battery cable(s), obviously the + lead
> needs to run forward, but have people been putting in a grounding wire
> up to the engine block & starter, or just chassis grounding? Seems
> like there are a few pounds to save if you don't have to run a ground
> wire, and I imagine that the battery/alternator/etc aren't especially
> noise/ground loop sensitive.
>
> Steve
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
Follow Van's plans for a local grounding point at the front of the battery
tray. There is NO value to running a heavy ground cable to the firewall
from the battery. Doesn't reduce resistance meaningfully, doesn't reduce
noise.
-sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Quick question-- for the main battery cable(s), obviously the + lead needs
> to run forward, but have people been putting in a grounding wire up to the
> engine block & starter, or just chassis grounding? Seems like there are a
> few pounds to save if you don't have to run a ground wire, and I imagine
> that the battery/alternator/etc aren't especially noise/ground loop
> sensitive.
>
> Steve
>
Message 4
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Steve,
This question will almost generate as much emotion and response as if
you asked if it=99s best to prime and what primer to use.
There are aircraft built and flying with both methods. Both methods
work.
I=99m a former audio engineer and ground loops were always a
nightmare to debug. I won=99t attempt to convince you that one
method is better than another. I made the decision to run a dedicated
ground to the back. I used #2 welding cable to get a little more
flexibility and save a bit of weight.
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 2:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Battery Cable
Quick question-- for the main battery cable(s), obviously the + lead
needs to run forward, but have people been putting in a grounding wire
up to the engine block & starter, or just chassis grounding? Seems like
there are a few pounds to save if you don't have to run a ground wire,
and I imagine that the battery/alternator/etc aren't especially
noise/ground loop sensitive.
Steve
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
I've had success using a short cable from the negative battery terminal to
the airframe. The starter and alternator should ground well via the engine
block, but some people end up grounding those items to the engine case or
engine mount or airframe as necessary. In any case you'll want to ground
the engine case with a conductor capable of handling the starter's current.
I had to ground my oil temp sender to the airframe, even with a robust
engine case ground. It would send erroneous readings depending on
alternator output. Grounding the alternator had no effect, so I just ran a
wire from near the temp sender to the firewall.
--Dave
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Quick question-- for the main battery cable(s), obviously the + lead needs
> to run forward, but have people been putting in a grounding wire up to the
> engine block & starter, or just chassis grounding? Seems like there are a
> few pounds to save if you don't have to run a ground wire, and I imagine
> that the battery/alternator/etc aren't especially noise/ground loop
> sensitive.
>
> Steve
>
Message 6
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Standard approach:
=C2=B7 Run a #2 wire from your battery(s) master solenoid(s) to
the firewall mounted starter solenoid
=C2=B7 Run a #4 wire from the starter solenoid to the starter
=C2=B7 Run a #4 wire from the starter ground terminal to the
firewall ground block. This is where you also ground the battery. Use
a block like this so you have a place for all your other ground
connections:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/elecsystem07-03463-6.php
=C2=B7 Run a #6 wire from the alternator output to a 70 amp
breaker on the firewall (assuming you are using a standard 60amp
alternator), from there to the battery side of the starter solenoid.
The alternator will share the starter ground.
The #2 to the starter solenoid compensates for the long cable run. The
short #4 cable from the solenoid to the starter is big enough to handle
the starting current but short enough to not have approachable voltage
drop. As every amp of power going to the starter needs to get back to
the battery, you need to ground the most power hungry component (the
starter) with a ground at least as good as the supply.
I run the cables going to the alternator and starter though fire sleeve.
Be very careful of =9Cchassis ground=9D. You can end up
with the starter or alternator trying to find ground via a path that you
do not want =93 like your avionics.
Welding cable works well for these applications.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 2:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Battery Cable
Quick question-- for the main battery cable(s), obviously the + lead
needs to run forward, but have people been putting in a grounding wire
up to the engine block & starter, or just chassis grounding? Seems like
there are a few pounds to save if you don't have to run a ground wire,
and I imagine that the battery/alternator/etc aren't especially
noise/ground loop sensitive.
Steve
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
I followed the plans, e.g., I use the airframe for the ground for the starter.
Probably the weak point is the cable from the engine to firewall. As pointed out
above, if that cable fails the current may find a return path not intended,
e.g., some small gauge wire. That cable needs regular inspection. I did try my
best to avoid ground loops with the avionics, especially audio circuits. My
audio is noise-free.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451858#451858
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
What quite a few of us have done is run a SECOND ground from the engine to
the firewall.=C2- Short, easy, and will work great if the other ground go
es south.Don
From: Bob Leffler <rv@thelefflers.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Cable
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, =C2-This question will almost generate as much emotion and response as
if you asked if it=99s best to prime and what primer to use. =C2-Th
ere are aircraft built and flying with both methods.=C2-=C2- Both metho
ds work. =C2-I=99m a former audio engineer and ground loops were al
ways a nightmare to debug.=C2-=C2- I won=99t attempt to convince
you that one method is better than another.=C2-=C2- I made the decision
to run a dedicated ground to the back.=C2-=C2- I used #2 welding cable
to get a little more flexibility and save a bit of weight. =C2-Bob =C2
- =C2-From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 2:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Battery Cable =C2-Quick question-- for the main batte
ry cable(s), obviously the + lead needs to run forward, but have people bee
n putting in a grounding wire up to the engine block & starter, or just cha
ssis grounding?=C2- Seems like there are a few pounds to save if you don'
t have to run a ground wire, and I imagine that the battery/alternator/etc
aren't especially noise/ground loop sensitive. =C2-Steve
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
I did the same as Bob, for the same reasons, plus it gives a known near
perfect path for the starter current.
But like Bob says, you're going to find literally hundreds of people who
did it on their RV-10 both
ways, and everyone will defend their way. So just throw a dart or spin
a wheel and choose.
It doesn't matter which side of the argument a person is on, they are
correct.
Tim
On 1/10/2016 2:26 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> This question will almost generate as much emotion and response as if
> you asked if its best to prime and what primer to use.
>
> There are aircraft built and flying with both methods. Both methods
> work.
>
> Im a former audio engineer and ground loops were always a nightmare
> to debug. I wont attempt to convince you that one method is better
> than another. I made the decision to run a dedicated ground to the
> back. I used #2 welding cable to get a little more flexibility and
> save a bit of weight.
>
> Bob
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven DeFord
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2016 2:08 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Battery Cable
>
> Quick question-- for the main battery cable(s), obviously the + lead
> needs to run forward, but have people been putting in a grounding wire
> up to the engine block & starter, or just chassis grounding? Seems
> like there are a few pounds to save if you don't have to run a ground
> wire, and I imagine that the battery/alternator/etc aren't especially
> noise/ground loop sensitive.
>
> Steve
>
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