Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:20 AM - Re: Re: Numbers (Bill Watson)
2. 05:26 AM - Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Carlos Trigo)
3. 06:15 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Linn Walters)
4. 06:21 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Werner Schneider)
5. 06:46 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Kelly McMullen)
6. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: Numbers (Kelly McMullen)
7. 07:29 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Flysrv10)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Stein Bruch)
9. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Numbers (Werner Schneider)
10. 08:05 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Rene)
11. 08:30 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Carl Froehlich)
12. 08:44 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Tim Olson)
13. 11:11 AM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Bob Turner)
14. 11:30 AM - Flap/Fuse Interference (Phillip Perry)
15. 11:33 AM - Re: Flap/Fuse Interference (Phillip Perry)
16. 12:19 PM - Re: Flap/Fuse Interference (Carl Froehlich)
17. 12:29 PM - Re: Flap/Fuse Interference (Gary Specketer)
18. 12:32 PM - Re: Re: Flap/Fuse Interference (RV10@TEXASRV10.COM)
19. 02:30 PM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Carl Froehlich)
20. 02:58 PM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Linn Walters)
21. 04:54 PM - Re: Flap/Fuse Interference (Rick Lark)
22. 07:21 PM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand (Danny Riggs)
Message 1
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I thought there general requirement to specify Vne in IAS for certified
planes is because many planes did not have direct TAS instrumentation.
I assume that any inaccuracies resulting from density effects are
reflected in conservative Vne figures.
We all want the freedom to build the way we want them. I'd be very
hesitant to publish such numbers given my lack of control over the product.
Bill "just thinking out loud"
On 1/26/2016 11:31 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> I've read the white paper. It contains a certain amount of nonsense.
> Flutter depends on TAS and air density. IAS depends on TAS and
> density. So between TAS, IAS, and density one can choose any two to
> express the equations. For example, with lift, we often choose IAS and
> density, because the density magically drops out of the equations.
> Does this mean lift doesn't depend on density? Of course not. It's
> included in just the right way in the definition of IAS. Now with
> flutter, there are many possible modes, and the relationship between
> density and TAS varies from one mode to the next. So it is not
> possible to define it away for all cases. You need, in general, two
> variables. It is not correct to say "flutter depends on (only) TAS".
> This business of higher than standard power is a red herring. Any
> standard -10, when light, can climb well into the flight levels. Nose
> it over to come down, and you can easily get as high a speed as
> desired. I would like to know, whether thru analysis or testing, where
> certain airspeeds (IAS or TAS) AND densities need to be observed as
> limiting. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here:
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452335#452335
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands which
are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system
integration, features and so on, in this or another order.
About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS,
integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B, integrated
auto-pilot, etc.
About brand, you know.
But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your
RV-10, what would you choose?
(I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what is
the current situation)
Regards
Carlos
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| Subject: | Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
Whoa!!! I think you'd be better off asking about primer ...... ;-)
I can only offer my choice and reasons for it.
I went with MGL (http://mglavionics.co.za/) ..... probably too early in
my build, since there's been a lot of new models to choose from.
There were two main selling points ..... the ability to customize my
screens (there are 9 of them) and the RDAC which mounts inside the
engine compartment and gathers all the engine sensor data so only three
#22 wires go through the firewall.
I chose the Odyssey 10" panel because I'm old and don't see as well as I
used to. GPS, autopilot, AOA, altitude encoder..... everything but
radios, transponder, compass and AHRS is integrated into that panel.
CAN bus, RS-232 and 'airtalk' communicate with external boxes.
I chose to make the two panels 'independent' with their own compass and
AHRS which cost a little more than backup round gauges. My panel is
removable as you see it here with harness plugs on the far right and
left using a combination of 'D' and Molex connectors. I can power it up
on the bench and install new equipment if needed.
They also have autopilot servos that will handle the stiff RV-10 elevator.
The downside ......
Rainier, the chief designer, is pretty much a 'one man shop' ..... there
are others working there .... so new products are 'his' designs, and
there may be a long wait for 'bugs' to be fixed .... especially in the
older product lines.
If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer.
Here's a pic of my panel ...... The only thing missing is the Trig
transponder which is below the left radio. Lots of progress made since
this pic was taken.
Good luck with your decision ..... it's a tough choice for all of us.
Make sure your panel meets the 'mission requirements'.
Linn
On 1/27/2016 8:22 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
> which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
>
> Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system
> integration, features and so on, in this or another order
>
> About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS,
> integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B,
> integrated auto-pilot, etc.
>
> About brand, you know
>
> But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in
> your RV-10, what would you choose?
>
> (I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering
> what is the current situation)
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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>
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| Subject: | Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
Carlos,
I recommend you visit the Aero end of April and look at them.
The big 4 in Experimental today are probably:
Garmin G3X
Advanced Flight Systems
Dynon Skyview
Grand Rapid Technologies
Prices depends on screen size and features.
Garmin and Dynon have their integrated COM/transponder and AP, AFS could
meanwhile probably have as well the Dynon parts integrated.
AFS and GRT do integrate very well with TruTrak as AP.
You need to take cost wise into account what the database will cost you
yearly (as for Europe this is extra cost).
Find out what you want to achieve, what is your mission, what is your
budget, what is a must feature wise, what is nice to have, put it in a
spreadsheet compare prices (do not forget the extras) then goto the aero
ask questions and play with the interface to see which one you're
comfortable most.
my 2 cents :)
On 27.01.2016 14:22, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Guys
>
> I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
> which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
>
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| Subject: | Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
You will find most of us favoring whatever brand we selected. I tend to
think of MGL as a minor player, not what I would want for major support.
I dislike Garmin for many reasons, but others love them.
My three favorites that I debated over were Dynon, AFS and GRT. For what
I wanted at the time autopilot was 4-5K extra for AFS and GRT because
you needed a separate 3rd party unit. I think they have since integrated
something into their software.
Acquisition cost and features will be one factor. Database cost and
repairs cost will be the other main players. I frankly don't know how
Garmin handles that with the G3X system. I would hope it would be better
than with their other product lines like portables and certified panel
mounts, where you pay a big flat rate fee regardless of what you need
fixed.
I have been very happy with Dynon's upgrades, largely to meet customer
requests. Their "free" database updates and pay for IFR charts approach
works for me, but I'm sure there are other reasonable alternatives.
You need to spend time at an airshow where vendors are displaying, and
ask more about costs and support, and less about features. They all have
most features you want, but ease of use and figuring them out takes time
to assess, and several subsequent visits to learn what you missed the
first time. If you are outside the US, costs, data update sources and
costs will all matter.
On 1/27/2016 6:22 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Guys
>
> I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
> which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
>
> Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system
> integration, features and so on, in this or another order
>
> About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS,
> integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B,
> integrated auto-pilot, etc.
>
> About brand, you know
>
> But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your
> RV-10, what would you choose?
>
> (I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what
> is the current situation)
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vrus protegido
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Seems like a few facts are muddled in this discussion.
1. True airspeed is a direct function of density altitude, there is no
independent variable.
2. Flutter is a direct function of TAS, as the speed of air over the
control surface induces a certain harmonic frequency.
3. Most aircraft can exceed Vne or design flutter speed in a dive. Some
turbo charged aircraft and higher power normally aspirated aircraft can
exceed Vne in level flight. That is what Vans was concerned about.
4. Virtually all turbine aircraft have a "barber pole" speed that is
their limit for given density altitude. Above certain altitude it
becomes a mach number. Same exact concept, just at higher speeds. The do
not exceed speed varies substantially as they go higher.
There are ways to increase the design flutter speed by upgrading control
surfaces. I don't know much about that beyond weight and stiffness of
the surface, along with counter balancing are factors.
On 1/27/2016 6:15 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> I thought there general requirement to specify Vne in IAS for certified
> planes is because many planes did not have direct TAS instrumentation.
>
> I assume that any inaccuracies resulting from density effects are
> reflected in conservative Vne figures.
>
> We all want the freedom to build the way we want them. I'd be very
> hesitant to publish such numbers given my lack of control over the product.
>
> Bill "just thinking out loud"
>
> On 1/26/2016 11:31 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>> I've read the white paper. It contains a certain amount of nonsense.
>> Flutter depends on TAS and air density. IAS depends on TAS and
>> density. So between TAS, IAS, and density one can choose any two to
>> express the equations. For example, with lift, we often choose IAS and
>> density, because the density magically drops out of the equations.
>> Does this mean lift doesn't depend on density? Of course not. It's
>> included in just the right way in the definition of IAS. Now with
>> flutter, there are many possible modes, and the relationship between
>> density and TAS varies from one mode to the next. So it is not
>> possible to define it away for all cases. You need, in general, two
>> variables. It is not correct to say "flutter depends on (only) TAS".
>> This business of higher than standard power is a red herring. Any
>> standard -10, when light, can climb well into the flight levels. Nose
>> it over to come down, and you can easily get as high a speed as
>> desired. I would like to know, whether thru analysis or testing, where
>> certain airspeeds (IAS or TAS) AND densities need to be observed as
>> limiting. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here:
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452335#452335
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
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| Subject: | Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
Add Aspen to the list. They will or already have an experimental version.
Do not archive.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 9:17 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> Carlos,
>
> I recommend you visit the Aero end of April and look at them.
>
> The big 4 in Experimental today are probably:
>
> Garmin G3X
> Advanced Flight Systems
> Dynon Skyview
> Grand Rapid Technologies
>
> Prices depends on screen size and features.
>
> Garmin and Dynon have their integrated COM/transponder and AP, AFS could meanwhile
probably have as well the Dynon parts integrated.
> AFS and GRT do integrate very well with TruTrak as AP.
>
> You need to take cost wise into account what the database will cost you yearly
(as for Europe this is extra cost).
>
> Find out what you want to achieve, what is your mission, what is your budget,
what is a must feature wise, what is nice to have, put it in a spreadsheet compare
prices (do not forget the extras) then goto the aero
> ask questions and play with the interface to see which one you're comfortable
most.
>
> my 2 cents :)
>
>> On 27.01.2016 14:22, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>> Guys
>>
>> I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
>> which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
Oh Carlos =93 what a great question to which there is literally no
single answer! If you get a chance and can give me a shout, we can chat
and figure out some of the things that are specific to you
that=99ll make the decision easier.things like flight
mission, experience, budget, timeline, so on and so forth.
What much of it comes down to anymore is =9Cred car or blue
car=9D or =9CToyota vs. Honda=9D. What you=99ll
get is most people think their child is the prettiest, and most people
will vehemently defend their choice (good or bad), which is a good thing
but not entirely helpful for neophytes.
What I will tell you from the perspective of selling more of these than
pretty much anyone else is that 99% of EFIS sales in the RV-10 are
focused on Dynon and Garmin. Both are practically the same price, offer
very similar functionality, a similar sizes. Other options are still
available, but the reality is that Dynon and Garmin have solidified the
horse race as two excellent choices. The others aren=99t
necessarily bad =93 we=99re just talking different levels of
good here, but both Dynon and Garmin obviously are putting a whole lot
of energy behind continued development, support and functionality
growth.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 7:23 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system
integration, features and so on, in this or another order
About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS,
integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B,
integrated auto-pilot, etc.
About brand, you know
But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your
RV-10, what would you choose?
(I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what
is the current situation)
Regards
Carlos
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Bob,
you always could convert the TAS to a IAS/Altitude table if you want,
the beauty of having it in TAS (and maybe your EFIS can display this as
well), is that
wherever you fly your limit will be correct.
I myself prefer it that way instead of looking at a table buried on the
lower left panel like in a Cirrus.
my 2 cents Werner
On 27.01.2016 02:18, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> I'm sure Vans' lawyers are telling him to never say anything, but I do wish the
company was a little more forth-coming. Was the prototype dived to some speed?
At what altitude (surely higher than sea level)? This whole business of specifying
Vne as a TAS, when the FARs require specifying it (along with altitudes,
if necessary) in IAS for normally certified aircraft, just bothers me.
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| Subject: | Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
I agree with others..all answers are tainted by what we have
already chosen. Stein built my panel many years ago and I went with
GRT..
I love the GRT and have upgraded my screens since I first flew back in
2008.
One of my design goals was to distribute the
=9Dprocessing=9D to avoid single point hardware and SOFTWARE
failures. So as much as the one box does everything approach looks like
the best solution, I would still worry about a single point
failure..what do you have left.
So my system is currently
2 screen GRT system (6.5 in HX)
1 GRT sport
Garmin 430w
Trutrak Autopilot
The auto pilot can be commanded from the Garmin, 2 screen GRT, or Sport.
The sport has its own GPS and ADHRS.true fully mission capable
backup.
The trutrak autopilot is great.
Just my opinion with no real experience with other systems.
I think it is a GREAT idea to call Stein and work through your
requirements. Over the years he has helped me greatly. Just to put in a
plug.he also sells bits and pieces you will need via
his web site. (steinair.com)
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
Oh Carlos =93 what a great question to which there is literally no
single answer! If you get a chance and can give me a shout, we can chat
and figure out some of the things that are specific to you
that=99ll make the decision easier.things like flight
mission, experience, budget, timeline, so on and so forth.
What much of it comes down to anymore is =9Cred car or blue
car=9D or =9CToyota vs. Honda=9D. What you=99ll
get is most people think their child is the prettiest, and most people
will vehemently defend their choice (good or bad), which is a good thing
but not entirely helpful for neophytes.
What I will tell you from the perspective of selling more of these than
pretty much anyone else is that 99% of EFIS sales in the RV-10 are
focused on Dynon and Garmin. Both are practically the same price, offer
very similar functionality, a similar sizes. Other options are still
available, but the reality is that Dynon and Garmin have solidified the
horse race as two excellent choices. The others aren=99t
necessarily bad =93 we=99re just talking different levels of
good here, but both Dynon and Garmin obviously are putting a whole lot
of energy behind continued development, support and functionality
growth.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 7:23 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system
integration, features and so on, in this or another order
About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS,
integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B,
integrated auto-pilot, etc.
About brand, you know
But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your
RV-10, what would you choose?
(I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what
is the current situation)
Regards
Carlos
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| Subject: | Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
Carlos,
All good comments. Some additional thoughts:
The three major players are Dynon, Garmin (the experimental side only!), and Grand
Rapids. These are the companies that have established solid foundations for
their business so you have some confidence they will be around for the long
run. I did not list Advanced as they are now owned by Dynon. Even though Dynon
sells and supports the Advanced line I don't see how they can support two
such similar products for such a small market. In other words I expect the Advance
line to be phased out at some point.
For system elements, this is 100% dependent on your mission. If you are flying
IFR then you should have:
- Two 10" displays with integrated traffic and weather displays (ADS-B in and TIS)
- Two ADHARS modules (and a system that automatically compares the modules to detect
faults)
- Mode S transponder with ADS-B out capability
- Two axis autopilot
A lot of problems are solved if you go with one vendor for everything.
>From this you can do the apples to bananas comparisons. Do three full system
cost calculations then decide which provides you the best capability/cost value.
Do not ignore the total cost of ownership (Garmin flat rate charges, Garmin
database subscriptions compared to Dynon's free for life, etc).
Let us know what decision you make and why - this is the fastest moving element
of the experimental market and new views are always worth the time to review.
Carl
Full Dynon SkyView install (dual 10" displays, transponder, radio, ADS-B in/out,
Autopilot)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
You will find most of us favoring whatever brand we selected. I tend to think of
MGL as a minor player, not what I would want for major support.
I dislike Garmin for many reasons, but others love them.
My three favorites that I debated over were Dynon, AFS and GRT. For what I wanted
at the time autopilot was 4-5K extra for AFS and GRT because you needed a separate
3rd party unit. I think they have since integrated something into their
software.
Acquisition cost and features will be one factor. Database cost and repairs cost
will be the other main players. I frankly don't know how Garmin handles that
with the G3X system. I would hope it would be better than with their other product
lines like portables and certified panel mounts, where you pay a big flat
rate fee regardless of what you need fixed.
I have been very happy with Dynon's upgrades, largely to meet customer requests.
Their "free" database updates and pay for IFR charts approach works for me,
but I'm sure there are other reasonable alternatives.
You need to spend time at an airshow where vendors are displaying, and ask more
about costs and support, and less about features. They all have most features
you want, but ease of use and figuring them out takes time to assess, and several
subsequent visits to learn what you missed the first time. If you are outside
the US, costs, data update sources and costs will all matter.
On 1/27/2016 6:22 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Guys
>
> I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
> which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
>
> Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system
> integration, features and so on, in this or another order
>
> About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS,
> integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B,
> integrated auto-pilot, etc.
>
> About brand, you know
>
> But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in
> your RV-10, what would you choose?
>
> (I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering
> what is the current situation)
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vrus protegido
> pela Avast.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_
> campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
Definitely just call Stein and work through the decision process with
him. Also, actually BUY your system from him. As some people
are finding out with the RV-14, he's got the right in's for
backend support and can accomplish things other vendors can't.
So when you need something later, you'll have him as a resource.
But it's a two way street...be nice to your vendor and they
will bend over backwards for you. He's been the best vendor
that came through for many many customers left hanging
in the past.
Tim
On 1/27/2016 10:02 AM, Rene wrote:
> I agree with others..all answers are tainted by what we have already
> chosen. Stein built my panel many years ago and I went with GRT..
>
> I love the GRT and have upgraded my screens since I first flew back in 2008.
>
> One of my design goals was to distribute the processing to avoid
> single point hardware and SOFTWARE failures. So as much as the one box
> does everything approach looks like the best solution, I would still
> worry about a single point failure..what do you have left.
>
> So my system is currently
>
> 2 screen GRT system (6.5 in HX)
>
> 1 GRT sport
>
> Garmin 430w
>
> Trutrak Autopilot
>
> The auto pilot can be commanded from the Garmin, 2 screen GRT, or
> Sport. The sport has its own GPS and ADHRS.true fully mission capable
> backup.
>
> The trutrak autopilot is great.
>
> Just my opinion with no real experience with other systems.
>
> I think it is a GREAT idea to call Stein and work through your
> requirements. Over the years he has helped me greatly. Just to put in a
> plug.he also sells bits and pieces you will need via his web site.
> (steinair.com)
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
I'm with Rene on this one - without really knowing what the software is doing,
I fear a single failure freezing everything. So I have a pair of GRTs; a Dynon
D6 backup which is not connected to anything else; Trio Pro autopilot which can
stand alone or run thru the GRTs; Garmin 420W and SL-30 so nav functions are
not all in one box. It does all integrate well thru the GRT system but can stand
alone if need be. Just my two cents.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452362#452362
Message 14
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| Subject: | Flap/Fuse Interference |
I'm in the process of rigging the ailerons, etc. In the process of setting the
ailerons, you have to set the flap first.
In the process of setting the flap, I noticed that I have interference between
the inboard section of the flap and the fuselage side skin. (Photo attached)
Obviously I'm going to have to file down the edge of the flap to be able to get
the full range of motion without interference.
However, my question is 'how much'?
When the flaps are fully retracted. (Inboard nose of the flap solidly against the
rear spar doubler, how much of a gap do you have exposed to the naked eye?
Thanks,
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flap/Fuse Interference |
With attachment this time...
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 1:26 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm in the process of rigging the ailerons, etc. In the process of settin
g the ailerons, you have to set the flap first.
>
> In the process of setting the flap, I noticed that I have interference bet
ween the inboard section of the flap and the fuselage side skin. (Photo att
ached)
>
> Obviously I'm going to have to file down the edge of the flap to be able t
o get the full range of motion without interference.
>
> However, my question is 'how much'?
>
> When the flaps are fully retracted. (Inboard nose of the flap solidly agai
nst the rear spar doubler, how much of a gap do you have exposed to the nake
d eye?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
Message 16
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| Subject: | Flap/Fuse Interference |
Yep - file as needed. You don't need much clearance, say 1/16" or so. That
way it will still clear after paint.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 2:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap/Fuse Interference
I'm in the process of rigging the ailerons, etc. In the process of setting
the ailerons, you have to set the flap first.
In the process of setting the flap, I noticed that I have interference
between the inboard section of the flap and the fuselage side skin. (Photo
attached)
Obviously I'm going to have to file down the edge of the flap to be able to
get the full range of motion without interference.
However, my question is 'how much'?
When the flaps are fully retracted. (Inboard nose of the flap solidly
against the rear spar doubler, how much of a gap do you have exposed to the
naked eye?
Thanks,
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flap/Fuse Interference |
It doesn't need to be much. Just enough to allow you to paint and still have clearance.
I would leave 3/16 before paint.
Gary SPECKETER
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 2:26 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm in the process of rigging the ailerons, etc. In the process of setting the
ailerons, you have to set the flap first.
>
> In the process of setting the flap, I noticed that I have interference between
the inboard section of the flap and the fuselage side skin. (Photo attached)
>
> Obviously I'm going to have to file down the edge of the flap to be able to get
the full range of motion without interference.
>
> However, my question is 'how much'?
>
> When the flaps are fully retracted. (Inboard nose of the flap solidly against
the rear spar doubler, how much of a gap do you have exposed to the naked eye?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Flap/Fuse Interference |
File away....
Gaylon Koenning
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 13:29, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With attachment this time...
>
> <image1.JPG>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 27, 2016, at 1:26 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm in the process of rigging the ailerons, etc. In the process of setting
the ailerons, you have to set the flap first.
>>
>> In the process of setting the flap, I noticed that I have interference between
the inboard section of the flap and the fuselage side skin. (Photo attached)
>>
>> Obviously I'm going to have to file down the edge of the flap to be able to
get the full range of motion without interference.
>>
>> However, my question is 'how much'?
>>
>> When the flaps are fully retracted. (Inboard nose of the flap solidly against
the rear spar doubler, how much of a gap do you have exposed to the naked eye?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
Message 19
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| Subject: | Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
While Stein is a superb vendor, you pay a premium for the service.
I'm troubled that Van's does not even provide the aluminum panel blanks in the
RV-14 kits. They say to "just call Stein, he will make your panel". While not
for everyone, doing your own panel provides a lot of insight into how the stuff
all works. For the new EFIS systems like Dynon the simplicity of a network
centric architecture makes life a lot easier than the legacy analog days. Add
to that the high probability that you will want to change something after a
year or two and you have more incentive to do the panel yourself.
Then again, some people just don't like wires....
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
Definitely just call Stein and work through the decision process with him. Also,
actually BUY your system from him. As some people are finding out with the
RV-14, he's got the right in's for backend support and can accomplish things
other vendors can't.
So when you need something later, you'll have him as a resource.
But it's a two way street...be nice to your vendor and they will bend over backwards
for you. He's been the best vendor that came through for many many customers
left hanging in the past.
Tim
On 1/27/2016 10:02 AM, Rene wrote:
> I agree with others..all answers are tainted by what we have already
> chosen. Stein built my panel many years ago and I went with GRT..
>
> I love the GRT and have upgraded my screens since I first flew back in 2008.
>
> One of my design goals was to distribute the processing to avoid
> single point hardware and SOFTWARE failures. So as much as the one
> box does everything approach looks like the best solution, I would
> still worry about a single point failure..what do you have left.
>
> So my system is currently
>
> 2 screen GRT system (6.5 in HX)
>
> 1 GRT sport
>
> Garmin 430w
>
> Trutrak Autopilot
>
> The auto pilot can be commanded from the Garmin, 2 screen GRT, or
> Sport. The sport has its own GPS and ADHRS.true fully mission
> capable backup.
>
> The trutrak autopilot is great.
>
> Just my opinion with no real experience with other systems.
>
> I think it is a GREAT idea to call Stein and work through your
> requirements. Over the years he has helped me greatly. Just to put in
> a plug.he also sells bits and pieces you will need via his web site.
> (steinair.com)
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
Good comments Carl.
I wired my whole plane ... because I can. And I have the proper tools.
The crimpers can be pricey but cheap crimpers will bite you down the road.
I bought most of my connectors and wire from Stein because it was
convenient and he had the proper aviation stuff. Saved me time looking
for stuff a few $$ cheaper on the 'net. As Carl said .... if you wire
your own you will be able to save a lot of head-scratching when
something gives you problems. Make a schematic of your work. I used
Express PCB ... there are two parts, the schematic and the PC board
layout which you don't need. http://www.expresspcb.com/expresssch ....
and scroll down to the zip file download.
Linn
On 1/27/2016 5:25 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> While Stein is a superb vendor, you pay a premium for the service.
>
> I'm troubled that Van's does not even provide the aluminum panel blanks in the
RV-14 kits. They say to "just call Stein, he will make your panel". While
not for everyone, doing your own panel provides a lot of insight into how the
stuff all works. For the new EFIS systems like Dynon the simplicity of a network
centric architecture makes life a lot easier than the legacy analog days.
Add to that the high probability that you will want to change something after
a year or two and you have more incentive to do the panel yourself.
>
> Then again, some people just don't like wires....
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:35 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
>
>
> Definitely just call Stein and work through the decision process with him. Also,
actually BUY your system from him. As some people are finding out with the
RV-14, he's got the right in's for backend support and can accomplish things
other vendors can't.
> So when you need something later, you'll have him as a resource.
> But it's a two way street...be nice to your vendor and they will bend over backwards
for you. He's been the best vendor that came through for many many customers
left hanging in the past.
> Tim
>
>
> On 1/27/2016 10:02 AM, Rene wrote:
>> I agree with others..all answers are tainted by what we have already
>> chosen. Stein built my panel many years ago and I went with GRT..
>>
>> I love the GRT and have upgraded my screens since I first flew back in 2008.
>>
>> One of my design goals was to distribute the processing to avoid
>> single point hardware and SOFTWARE failures. So as much as the one
>> box does everything approach looks like the best solution, I would
>> still worry about a single point failure..what do you have left.
>>
>> So my system is currently
>>
>> 2 screen GRT system (6.5 in HX)
>>
>> 1 GRT sport
>>
>> Garmin 430w
>>
>> Trutrak Autopilot
>>
>> The auto pilot can be commanded from the Garmin, 2 screen GRT, or
>> Sport. The sport has its own GPS and ADHRS.true fully mission
>> capable backup.
>>
>> The trutrak autopilot is great.
>>
>> Just my opinion with no real experience with other systems.
>>
>> I think it is a GREAT idea to call Stein and work through your
>> requirements. Over the years he has helped me greatly. Just to put in
>> a plug.he also sells bits and pieces you will need via his web site.
>> (steinair.com)
>>
>> Rene'
>>
>> 801-721-6080
>>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Flap/Fuse Interference |
Phil, I filed off more than an 1/8" from both flaps and am glad I did.
Once the paint goes on your gap narrows. I was also concerned with a
little sideways movement of the flaps and their hinge supports too, so as I
said, I had an 1/8" (before paint).
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
RV10 completed but not test flying until April
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm in the process of rigging the ailerons, etc. In the process of
> setting the ailerons, you have to set the flap first.
>
> In the process of setting the flap, I noticed that I have interference
> between the inboard section of the flap and the fuselage side skin. (Photo
> attached)
>
> Obviously I'm going to have to file down the edge of the flap to be able
> to get the full range of motion without interference.
>
> However, my question is 'how much'?
>
> When the flaps are fully retracted. (Inboard nose of the flap solidly
> against the rear spar doubler, how much of a gap do you have exposed to the
> naked eye?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
I went with GRT HXrs the second time around. My hanger mate has AFS. He says that
the GRT has better resolution (he is right on that account). Both of them are
first rate. I bought all my stuff thru Steinair. It was cheaper than from the
factory and they also do customer support par excellant!!
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Carlos,
>
> All good comments. Some additional thoughts:
>
> The three major players are Dynon, Garmin (the experimental side only!), and
Grand Rapids. These are the companies that have established solid foundations
for their business so you have some confidence they will be around for the long
run. I did not list Advanced as they are now owned by Dynon. Even though
Dynon sells and supports the Advanced line I don't see how they can support two
such similar products for such a small market. In other words I expect the
Advance line to be phased out at some point.
>
> For system elements, this is 100% dependent on your mission. If you are flying
IFR then you should have:
> - Two 10" displays with integrated traffic and weather displays (ADS-B in and
TIS)
> - Two ADHARS modules (and a system that automatically compares the modules to
detect faults)
> - Mode S transponder with ADS-B out capability
> - Two axis autopilot
>
> A lot of problems are solved if you go with one vendor for everything.
>
>> From this you can do the apples to bananas comparisons. Do three full system
cost calculations then decide which provides you the best capability/cost value.
Do not ignore the total cost of ownership (Garmin flat rate charges, Garmin
database subscriptions compared to Dynon's free for life, etc).
>
> Let us know what decision you make and why - this is the fastest moving element
of the experimental market and new views are always worth the time to review.
>
> Carl
> Full Dynon SkyView install (dual 10" displays, transponder, radio, ADS-B in/out,
Autopilot)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:42 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
>
>
> You will find most of us favoring whatever brand we selected. I tend to think
of MGL as a minor player, not what I would want for major support.
> I dislike Garmin for many reasons, but others love them.
> My three favorites that I debated over were Dynon, AFS and GRT. For what I wanted
at the time autopilot was 4-5K extra for AFS and GRT because you needed a
separate 3rd party unit. I think they have since integrated something into their
software.
> Acquisition cost and features will be one factor. Database cost and repairs cost
will be the other main players. I frankly don't know how Garmin handles that
with the G3X system. I would hope it would be better than with their other
product lines like portables and certified panel mounts, where you pay a big flat
rate fee regardless of what you need fixed.
> I have been very happy with Dynon's upgrades, largely to meet customer requests.
Their "free" database updates and pay for IFR charts approach works for me,
but I'm sure there are other reasonable alternatives.
> You need to spend time at an airshow where vendors are displaying, and ask more
about costs and support, and less about features. They all have most features
you want, but ease of use and figuring them out takes time to assess, and several
subsequent visits to learn what you missed the first time. If you are outside
the US, costs, data update sources and costs will all matter.
>
>> On 1/27/2016 6:22 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>> Guys
>>
>> I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
>> which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
>>
>> Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system
>> integration, features and so on, in this or another order
>>
>> About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS,
>> integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B,
>> integrated auto-pilot, etc.
>>
>> About brand, you know
>>
>> But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in
>> your RV-10, what would you choose?
>>
>> (I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering
>> what is the current situation)
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>> Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vrus protegido
>> pela Avast.
>> www.avast.com
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_
>> campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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