---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/02/16: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Tow Bar (Geoff Combs) 2. 05:12 AM - Re: Tow Bar (Kelly McMullen) 3. 10:45 AM - Re: Tow Bar (Bill Watson) 4. 11:37 AM - Re: Tow Bar (davidsoutpost) 5. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") (Stein Bruch) 6. 12:45 PM - Re: Tow Bar (kearney) 7. 01:14 PM - Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") (Bob Turner) 8. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") (Ed Kranz) 9. 03:39 PM - Re: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") (David Leikam) 10. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") (Kelly McMullen) 11. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Tow Bar (Bill Watson) 12. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") (Bill Watson) 13. 11:44 PM - Re: Re: Tow Bar (Patrick Pulis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:10 AM PST US From: Geoff Combs Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tow Bar You do not use the wheel axle bolt for the tow bar. You use the forward tow bar attach Bolts That hold the front of the wheel pant bracket. Geoff Sent from my iPhone Geoff Combs Aerosport > On Jan 31, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I have the Bogart Tow bar. My nose gear is a Matco wheel with Matco axle. > When I put the tow bar on the axle bolt and nut, the tow bar slips off very easily, making turning and pushing almost impossible Is thee a way to lock the tow bar onto the axle? > -sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:56 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tow Bar That explains a lot...haven't gotten around to mounting those brackets yet. Thanks Geoff. -sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:55 AM, Geoff Combs wrote: > g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com> > > You do not use the wheel axle bolt for the tow bar. You use the forward > tow bar attach > Bolts That hold the front of the wheel pant bracket. > > Geoff > > Sent from my iPhone > Geoff Combs > Aerosport > > > > On Jan 31, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > > I have the Bogart Tow bar. My nose gear is a Matco wheel with Matco axle. > > When I put the tow bar on the axle bolt and nut, the tow bar slips off > very easily, making turning and pushing almost impossible Is thee a way to > lock the tow bar onto the axle? > > -sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tow Bar From: Bill Watson Geoff answered the question but you might give this some thought as work on the brackets.... As I recall, the original design has the 'forward tow bar attach bolts' setup so they are recessed inside of the wheel pant for a nice streamlined appearance/performance. I copied a number of other builders in lengthening the bolts so that stainless cap head bolts sit external to the wheel pant. There was a bit more to it but it's been awhile and I'm not looking at anything. The mods were fully discussed and documented here on the forum. As I go into 5 years of operation, the external tow points have worked great with the Bogert tow bar. More importantly they have eased operations at visiting airports because the tow points are obvious, easily used by common commercial tow bars, and because of some protective washers they minimize damage to the wheel pant from line folks. And it still looks pretty good though not all neat and recessed. There may be other and better solutions out there now but that mod has been good to me and I recommend it. The Bogie Bar has also be come my control lock - it can work without modification but the addition of some tabs to lock into the rudder pedals makes it fool proof. On 1/31/2016 11:56 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > I have the Bogart Tow bar. My nose gear is a Matco wheel with Matco axle. > When I put the tow bar on the axle bolt and nut, the tow bar slips off > very easily, making turning and pushing almost impossible Is thee a > way to lock the tow bar onto the axle? > -sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tow Bar From: davidsoutpost CiAgICAKSSBsZW5ndGhlbmVkIG15IHRvdyBiYXIgYXR0YWNoIHBvaW50cyBieSBidXlpbmcgbG9u Z2VyIHNvY2tldCBoZWFkIGNhcCBzY3Jld3MgYW5kIG1hY2hpbmluZyBsb25nZXIgYWx1bWludW0g c3BhY2Vycy4gwqBUaGUgYXR0YWNoIHBvaW50cyBhcmUganVzdCBmbHVzaCBhbG1vc3Qgd2l0aCB0 aGUgZmFpcmluZ3MuIFRoZXkgZG8gbm90IHN0aWNrIG91dCBhbmQgcHJvdmlkZSBhYm91dCAzLzQi IGF0dGFjaCBwb2ludHMgZm9yIHBvc2l0aXZlIHRvdyBiYXIgY29ubmVjdGlvbnMuCgoKU2VudCBm 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Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:26 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") Hi Carlos, Again you=92ll get lots of opinions=85but I=92ll share my 2 cents as usual! For 2 or 3 screens I=92d say a lot depends on who is often flying in the right seat. If you often have a =93pilot type=94 or someone who enjoys seeing what is going on, or if you fly from the right seat than 2 or 3 screen is a very nice luxury. It also depends on whether or not you want to have 2 screens directly in front of the pilot or split them Left/Right. I=92d say in an RV-10 2 screens is almost a must, it=92s how you position them that is a very personal thing. The 3rd screen can be a nice central MFD type display for autopilot controls, engine info, vertical power info, flight planning, etc.., but again a very personal thing. Touch or buttons at this point is hardly a deciding factor in my opinion. That whole debate is almost a marketing exercise, as a well-designed touch system still has dedicated knobs and buttons for critical functions (despite what various marketing hypes say), so in the end that in itself shouldn=92t be a major factor in the decision making process in my opinion. The world is moving to touchscreens whether we like the idea or not, and sometimes a poorly designed touch interface or menu structure with tons of buttons can be just as distracting as a simplified structure with less buttons=85.but both are perfectly usable in most any condition. The fact of the matter is that if it=92s so bumpy that a touch is unusable, buttons will also be difficult. The multiple ADAHRS thing also depends much on your mission and equipment. Do not confuse redundancy with reliability. Multiple ADAHRS systems are fantastic redundancy, but don=92t necessarily add to overall reliability. Integrated comm radios are also something that has pretty much become standard no matter which system you buy so again, I wouldn=92t place that as much of a deciding factor. Both Dynon & Garmin do a pretty nice job with their radio interfaces and both have their own =93pro=92s=94. The integrated transponder is pretty much standard with all of the systems and both are good=85no deciding factor there. ADS-B is also pretty much standard with all systems, so again not a deciding factor in my opinion. So in the end I=92d pick the system that you like to look at and play with=85.and you can be pretty assured you=92ll love whichever one you choose. Cheers, Stein From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 7:49 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") Fowkes As the initiator of this thread, it=92s time to thank everybody who responded (perhaps except to those who deviated from the central issue=85 :(). Now, we=92ve beaten to death the =93Brand=94 question: it seems it should be Garmin or Dynon, closely followed by GRT. Now, on the =93System=94 question, almost nobody responded to this. I know it all depends on the mission, the available space, the available $$, but What is the ideal system for a cross country RV-10? 2 or 3 screens? Touch or buttons? 1 or 2 ADHARS? Integrated comm radio? Integrated Xpdr? ADS-B? I appreciate your views on this issues Carlos -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kearney Sent: s=E1bado, 30 de Janeiro de 2016 03:47 Subject: RV10-List: Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand kearney@shaw.ca> Hi I think a key factor to consider is how much of the work you are going to do yourself and how much will be done for you. The reason I say this is if you are inexperienced (as I was) when building your panel then good support is absolutely essential. Rob and his crew at AFS were and are most helpful as is Tim at Approach Systems where I bought my non EFIS avionics. In short, keep in mind how much support you will need from your supplier(s). The cheapest option may not be in many cases be the best option. Cheers Les Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452431#452431 www.buildersbooks.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution _tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Nav iga tor?RV10-List <============== http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem v=EDrus protegido pela Avast. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:01 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Tow Bar From: "kearney" HI A few years ago there was a bolt / helicoil / tap kit that was making its way from builder to builder. The intent was to use heilcoils in the bolt holes as the raw aluminum would eventually give way. The bolts were longer so that the head protruded out of the pants. A large washer was placed under the head so the tow bar never was inside the wheel pant. This prevents wheel pant damage if the tow bar slips off. AT least only paint gets scratched and the F/G doesn't get This up. Cheers Les Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452533#452533 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:25 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") From: "Bob Turner" trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote: > Fowkes > > As the initiator of this thread, its time to thank everybody who responded (perhaps except to those who deviated from the central issue L). > > Now, weve beaten to death the Brand question: it seems it should be Garmin or Dynon, closely followed by GRT. > > Now, on the System question, almost nobody responded to this. > I know it all depends on the mission, the available space, the available $$, but > > What is the ideal system for a cross country RV-10? > 2 or 3 screens? > Touch or buttons? > 1 or 2 ADHARS? > Integrated comm radio? > Integrated Xpdr? > ADS-B? > > I appreciate your views on this issues > > Carlos > > > > > -- My personal biases and opinions: First of all, did you open the hood and look inside the boxes? Most people do not. For example, the Dynon uses pitot data to obtain the attitude solution. If it auto-detects pitot failure (notice the 'if') it will use gps data instead. But if you lose both you lose your attitude indicator. Odds are low, but are you happy with that? GRT will still show attitude in this circumstance; Garmin I don't know. Other stuff: I fear single point failures taking out everything, so my philosophy is to have boxes that will work together but can stand alone. 3 attitude sources - GRT, TRIO, Dynon D6 - all independent. Battery back up My touch screen experience is limited to the GTN series. I dislike it intensely, even in smooth air I hit the wrong thing! But maybe I just need more practice. But I like knobs or buttons. Agree with others - 2 screens are good, a third is only useful for a right seat person. ADSB. For x/c get ADSB-in now, for the wx. You will want ADSB-out by 2020 because the -10 flies well above 10,000', so it can be now or later. But either way think about it now, because it feeds back into your choices. e.g., there are a number of options that will display on GRT equipment; with Dynon or Garmin you have fewer, and, more expensive choices. If buying all new avionics as you are, with an ifr gps navigator, the mode S-ES route may be less expensive than UAT. Look carefully at the numbers and trade offs. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452534#452534 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") From: Ed Kranz My 10 has 3 screens. The right screen is for the co-pilot. It's out of reach of the pilot for standard practical operation. I installed it because I want my son and wife to be able to practice flying with instrumentation in front of them, and also be able to check out the map/weather/traffic/AOPA airport directory without impacting my use of the PFD and MFD. With the G3X Touch, I think it would be possible to fly with a single in front of the pilot, but as I'm currently getting my instrument rating, it's FANTASTIC to have the PFD full screen with upcoming waypoints in the inset window, and the MFD split screen between the approach plate on the left and moving map on the right. I will also split the PFD to pull up info like the airport information page, or the nearest frequencies page. The functionality of this setup is incredible, even coming from a G1000 182! So my OPINION is that VFR, 1 screen could get you by. IFR, I think 2 screens is far more practical. 3 screens is just fun, or if you want to have someone who wants to "pilot" from the right seat from time to time. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") From: David Leikam I have a G900X from Stein installed in 2011 and have not looked back. Today I would probably choose a dual screen G3X panel. That being said, I use an iPad mini with Stratus mounted to the center support bar for sectional and other info. A third screen is very nice to have and the iPad does that job well. Dave Leikam N89DA > On Feb 2, 2016, at 5:03 PM, Ed Kranz wrote: > > My 10 has 3 screens. The right screen is for the co-pilot. It's out of reach of the pilot for standard practical operation. I installed it because I want my son and wife to be able to practice flying with instrumentation in front of them, and also be able to check out the map/weather/traffic/AOPA airport directory without impacting my use of the PFD and MFD. > > With the G3X Touch, I think it would be possible to fly with a single in front of the pilot, but as I'm currently getting my instrument rating, it's FANTASTIC to have the PFD full screen with upcoming waypoints in the inset window, and the MFD split screen between the approach plate on the left and moving map on the right. I will also split the PFD to pull up info like the airport information page, or the nearest frequencies page. > > The functionality of this setup is incredible, even coming from a G1000 182! > > So my OPINION is that VFR, 1 screen could get you by. IFR, I think 2 screens is far more practical. 3 screens is just fun, or if you want to have someone who wants to "pilot" from the right seat from time to time. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") From: Kelly McMullen I can see the juices flowing in your CFII's mind as to what items to fail on you. Say 2nd screen, GPS and whatever it takes to reduce you to one VHF nav, without moving map. On 2/2/2016 4:03 PM, Ed Kranz wrote: > My 10 has 3 screens. > With the G3X Touch, I think it would be possible to fly with a single in > front of the pilot, but as I'm currently getting my instrument rating, > it's FANTASTIC to have the PFD full screen with upcoming waypoints in > the inset window, and the MFD split screen between the approach plate on > the left and moving map on the right. I will also split the PFD to pull > up info like the airport information page, or the nearest frequencies page. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Tow Bar From: Bill Watson Thanks Les - it was long enough ago I forgot most of the details but that's what I did. The heli-coil touch was good engineering. Without it, I'm sure things would have stripped. Extending to just below the surface is the showplane approach - very nice. The extension with large washer approach is the 'ham handed tow bar handling' approach. Both better than stock I'd guess. On 2/2/2016 3:41 PM, kearney wrote: > > HI > > A few years ago there was a bolt / helicoil / tap kit that was making its way from builder to builder. > > The intent was to use heilcoils in the bolt holes as the raw aluminum would eventually give way. The bolts were longer so that the head protruded out of the pants. A large washer was placed under the head so the tow bar never was inside the wheel pant. This prevents wheel pant damage if the tow bar slips off. AT least only paint gets scratched and the F/G doesn't get This up. > > Cheers > > Les > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452533#452533 > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand") From: Bill Watson I did the central 3rd screen thing combined with a Stein canted center panel so it's turned towards the pilot. They are 3 GRT Hx screens and each can do any and all things but I use the center display as a MFD type. Looks great, works well but..... ...after flying behind it and with the opportunity to redo - I'd mount that 3rd screed right up against the pilot screen. There's no reason to spread such information out for the pilot. It looks better centered and separated, it performs better clustered and optimally centered for the pilot. And one big well designed screen should trump 2. Bill "personally, I really like the way it looks" Watson On 2/2/2016 3:19 PM, Stein Bruch wrote: > .The 3^rd screen can be a nice central MFD type display for autopilot > controls, engine info, vertical power info, flight planning, etc.., > but again a very personal thing. > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Tow Bar From: Patrick Pulis Do you have any pictures of this setup please Les? Warm regards Patrick > On 3 Feb 2016, at 07:11, kearney wrote: > > > HI > > A few years ago there was a bolt / helicoil / tap kit that was making its way from builder to builder. > > The intent was to use heilcoils in the bolt holes as the raw aluminum would eventually give way. The bolts were longer so that the head protruded out of the pants. A large washer was placed under the head so the tow bar never was inside the wheel pant. This prevents wheel pant damage if the tow bar slips off. AT least only paint gets scratched and the F/G doesn't get This up. > > Cheers > > Les > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452533#452533 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.