---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/20/16: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:56 PM - Re: Powering the EFIS system (Carlos Trigo) 2. 01:09 PM - Re: Powering the EFIS system (Stein Bruch) 3. 01:28 PM - Re: Powering the EFIS system (Carl Froehlich) 4. 02:11 PM - Re: Powering the EFIS system (Stein Bruch) 5. 02:19 PM - Re: Powering the EFIS system (David Clifford) 6. 04:14 PM - Re: Powering the EFIS system (Danny Riggs) 7. 06:33 PM - Re: Powering the EFIS system (Bob Turner) 8. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Powering the EFIS system (Linn Walters) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:10 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Thank you David Please indicate the part# and source for the miniature relay you used. And a picture of your fuse block installation would also be very welcome Cheers Carlos From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of davidsoutpost Sent: quarta-feira, 20 de Abril de 2016 03:18 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system All my avionics operate off a separate buss which is a blade fuse block. M y single avionics switch operates a miniature 30 amp relay that powers the block. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Carlos Trigo Subject: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Group I am beginning to install the EFIS G3X system from GARMIN in the RV-10, and I have to put power into (not more not less than) 12 devices (2 Display un its, 2 ADAHRS, 1 engine module, 3 autopilot servos and so on). In some devices there are 2 independent power inputs. I am trying to figure out which will be the best architecture for the power circuits to these 12 devices. I know that some of you are against the single Avionics switch, and I am le aning to agree, not including that single point of failure, but how about t he distribution system? I am not searching for opinions on the breaker or fuses discussion, just to know what other people did or recommend to do with busses and circuits. I should add that I have a dual battery /dual alternator energy system. All good suggestions welcome! Thanks Carlos Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.c om --- Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de v=C3=ADrus pelo software antiv=C3 =ADrus Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:29 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system While you can build this up yourself much cheaper (you can get a standard relay with the diode in it for around $15 or so) , but basically this is the same thing we do for our customers and have pre-wired it for them with the relay, buss bar, etc.. all ready to go http://steinair.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=672 Cheers, Stein Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 5:26 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Thank you David Please indicate the part# and source for the miniature relay you used. And a picture of your fuse block installation would also be very welcome Cheers Carlos From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidsoutpost Sent: quarta-feira, 20 de Abril de 2016 03:18 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system All my avionics operate off a separate buss which is a blade fuse block. My single avionics switch operates a miniature 30 amp relay that powers the block. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Carlos Trigo > , rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Group I am beginning to install the EFIS G3X system from GARMIN in the RV-10, and I have to put power into (not more not less than) 12 devices (2 Display units, 2 ADAHRS, 1 engine module, 3 autopilot servos and so on). In some devices there are 2 independent power inputs. I am trying to figure out which will be the best architecture for the power circuits to these 12 devices. I know that some of you are against the single Avionics switch, and I am leaning to agree, not including that single point of failure, but how about the distribution system? I am not searching for opinions on the breaker or fuses discussion, just to know what other people did or recommend to do with busses and circuits. I should add that I have a dual battery /dual alternator energy system. All good suggestions welcome! Thanks Carlos Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:37 PM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Stein, As you promote an avionics relay type approach, I=99d appreciate an understanding of why one would want to use this or any =9Cavionics master=9D switch scheme. As far as I can see this adds a unnecessary common failure mode for loss of the panel. Carl From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 4:08 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system While you can build this up yourself much cheaper (you can get a standard relay with the diode in it for around $15 or so) , but basically this is the same thing we do for our customers and have pre-wired it for them with the relay, buss bar, etc.. all ready to go http://steinair.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=672 Cheers, Stein Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 5:26 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Thank you David Please indicate the part# and source for the miniature relay you used. And a picture of your fuse block installation would also be very welcome Cheers Carlos From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidsoutpost Sent: quarta-feira, 20 de Abril de 2016 03:18 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system All my avionics operate off a separate buss which is a blade fuse block. My single avionics switch operates a miniature 30 amp relay that powers the block. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Carlos Trigo Subject: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Group I am beginning to install the EFIS G3X system from GARMIN in the RV-10, and I have to put power into (not more not less than) 12 devices (2 Display units, 2 ADAHRS, 1 engine module, 3 autopilot servos and so on). In some devices there are 2 independent power inputs. I am trying to figure out which will be the best architecture for the power circuits to these 12 devices. I know that some of you are against the single Avionics switch, and I am leaning to agree, not including that single point of failure, but how about the distribution system? I am not searching for opinions on the breaker or fuses discussion, just to know what other people did or recommend to do with busses and circuits. I should add that I have a dual battery /dual alternator energy system. All good suggestions welcome! Thanks Carlos Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:44 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system I really don=99t desire to get into that primer war! :) That said, if you desire to have an avionics master switch (which I=99m not necessarily promoting or not promoting) a relay is almost always a =9Cmust=9D because most switches are not rated to handle that current load. Of course you can design a system so as to not need or want an avionics master, but if you do then a relay is usually (not always) a good idea. If you want an avionics master and your system is designed for one, then go for it. If you don=99t want one or design around it, then don=99t use one Is that enough of a politicians answer!?!?! Ha! Cheers, Stein From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:28 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Stein, As you promote an avionics relay type approach, I=99d appreciate an understanding of why one would want to use this or any =9Cavionics master=9D switch scheme. As far as I can see this adds a unnecessary common failure mode for loss of the panel. Carl From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 4:08 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system While you can build this up yourself much cheaper (you can get a standard relay with the diode in it for around $15 or so) , but basically this is the same thing we do for our customers and have pre-wired it for them with the relay, buss bar, etc.. all ready to go http://steinair.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=672 Cheers, Stein Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 5:26 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Thank you David Please indicate the part# and source for the miniature relay you used. And a picture of your fuse block installation would also be very welcome Cheers Carlos From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidsoutpost Sent: quarta-feira, 20 de Abril de 2016 03:18 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system All my avionics operate off a separate buss which is a blade fuse block. My single avionics switch operates a miniature 30 amp relay that powers the block. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Carlos Trigo > , rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Group I am beginning to install the EFIS G3X system from GARMIN in the RV-10, and I have to put power into (not more not less than) 12 devices (2 Display units, 2 ADAHRS, 1 engine module, 3 autopilot servos and so on). In some devices there are 2 independent power inputs. I am trying to figure out which will be the best architecture for the power circuits to these 12 devices. I know that some of you are against the single Avionics switch, and I am leaning to agree, not including that single point of failure, but how about the distribution system? I am not searching for opinions on the breaker or fuses discussion, just to know what other people did or recommend to do with busses and circuits. I should add that I have a dual battery /dual alternator energy system. All good suggestions welcome! Thanks Carlos Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:35 PM PST US From: David Clifford Subject: Re: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system I used one of these I had laying around from another project. Its mounted b ehind the IP on the sub-panel, and is wired with 10 gauge from my main 12 v olt power stud to the fuse block. Fuse blocks I used are from Steinair. The fuse blocks are mounted also behind the IP on the sub-panel. Fuse blocks a re behind the pilot side accessible by removing the GDU 370 & GDU 375 displ ays. Sorry but I don't have a picture handy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Trigo" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 6:26:19 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Thank you David Please indicate the part# and source for the miniature relay you used. And a picture of your fuse block installation would also be very welcome Cheers Carlos From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of davidsoutpost Sent: quarta-feira, 20 de Abril de 2016 03:18 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system All my avionics operate off a separate buss which is a blade fuse block. My single avionics switch operates a miniature 30 amp relay that powers the b lock. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Carlos Trigo < trigo@mail.telepac.pt > Subject: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Group I am beginning to install the EFIS G3X system from GARMIN in the RV-10, and I have to put power into (not more not less than) 12 devices (2 Display un its, 2 ADAHRS, 1 engine module, 3 autopilot servos and so on). In some devices there are 2 independent power inputs. I am trying to figure out which will be the best architecture for the power circuits to these 12 devices. I know that some of you are against the single Avionics switch, and I am le aning to agree, not including that single point of failure, but how about t he distribution system? I am not searching for opinions on the breaker or fuses discussion, just to know what other people did or recommend to do with busses and circuits. I should add that I have a dual battery /dual alternator energy system. All good suggestions welcome! Thanks Carlos Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:55 PM PST US From: Danny Riggs Subject: Re: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Relays are really pretty reliable. Also are very much cheaper than the elec tronic systems. Spend $15 for and extra one and carry it with you as a spar e. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 20, 2016, at 2:15 PM, Stein Bruch > wrote: I really don=92t desire to get into that primer war! :) That said, if you desire to have an avionics master switch (which I=92m not necessarily promoting or not promoting) a relay is almost always a =93must =94 because most switches are not rated to handle that current load. Of cou rse you can design a system so as to not need or want an avionics master, b ut if you do then a relay is usually (not always) a good idea. If you want an avionics master and your system is designed for one, then go for it. If you don=92t want one or design around it, then don=92t use one=85 Is that enough of a politicians answer!?!?! Ha! Cheers, Stein From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Car l Froehlich Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:28 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Stein, As you promote an avionics relay type approach, I=92d appreciate an underst anding of why one would want to use this or any =93avionics master=94 switc h scheme. As far as I can see this adds a unnecessary common failure mode for loss of the panel. Carl From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ste in Bruch Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 4:08 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system While you can build this up yourself much cheaper (you can get a standard r elay with the diode in it for around $15 or so) , but basically this is the same thing we do for our customers and have pre-wired it for them with the relay, buss bar, etc.. all ready to go=85 http://steinair.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=672 Cheers, Stein Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Car los Trigo Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 5:26 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Thank you David Please indicate the part# and source for the miniature relay you used. And a picture of your fuse block installation would also be very welcome =85 Cheers Carlos From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dav idsoutpost Sent: quarta-feira, 20 de Abril de 2016 03:18 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system All my avionics operate off a separate buss which is a blade fuse block. M y single avionics switch operates a miniature 30 amp relay that powers the block. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Carlos Trigo > , rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system Group I am beginning to install the EFIS G3X system from GARMIN in the RV-10, and I have to put power into (not more not less than) 12 devices (2 Display un its, 2 ADAHRS, 1 engine module, 3 autopilot servos and so on). In some devices there are 2 independent power inputs. I am trying to figure out which will be the best architecture for the power circuits to these 12 devices. I know that some of you are against the single Avionics switch, and I am le aning to agree, not including that single point of failure, but how about t he distribution system? I am not searching for opinions on the breaker or fuses discussion, just to know what other people did or recommend to do with busses and circuits. I should add that I have a dual battery /dual alternator energy system. All good suggestions welcome! Thanks Carlos [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-open-tick-round-o range-v1.png] Sem v=EDrus. www.avast.com [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange -v1.png] Sem v=EDrus. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:46 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Powering the EFIS system From: "Bob Turner" I don't like the 'wire the relay backwards (avionics on when relay off)' approach. 1. Every time you turn on the master you give your radios a short pulse of power (until the relay pulls up) 2. If your starter pulls enough current to result in 'brown-out (significant drop in buss voltage) your avionics power relay may drop out at exactly the wrong time - subjecting your avionics to a low voltage. Some modern avionics do not tolerate low input voltages very well. At the least I'd look for a relay with low drop out voltage ratings. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455271#455271 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Powering the EFIS system From: Linn Walters On 4/20/2016 9:32 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > I don't like the 'wire the relay backwards (avionics on when relay off)' approach. That's OK too. I'd hate to have a failure of either the switch or relay ..... wired conventionally ..... that killed all my avionics. > 1. Every time you turn on the master you give your radios a short pulse of power (until the relay pulls up) I've never hung a 'scope on the avionics buss, but I suspect the avionics inrush current would keep that pulse rather small. > 2. If your starter pulls enough current to result in 'brown-out (significant drop in buss voltage) your avionics power relay may drop out at exactly the wrong time - subjecting your avionics to a low voltage. Some modern avionics do not tolerate low input voltages very well. I have 'exit sign' batteries for each of my two EFIS panels as backups for alternator/ships battery failure. I can power up the EFIS without turning on ships power. No brownout, no reboot no matter how low the ships power gets. > At the least I'd look for a relay with low drop out voltage ratings. Not a bad idea. Linn > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455271#455271 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.