Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:21 AM - Re: Wet Dog Syndrome On Shutdown (Kelly McMullen)
2. 03:52 AM - Re: Wet Dog Syndrome On Shutdown (Linn Walters)
3. 06:37 AM - Re: Wet Dog Syndrome On Shutdown (Kelly McMullen)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: Wet Dog Syndrome On Shutdown (Sean Stephens)
5. 12:10 PM - Attaching the Wings (Vernon Franklin)
6. 12:26 PM - Re: Attaching the Wings ()
7. 12:30 PM - Re: Attaching the Wings (Jeff Carpenter)
8. 12:41 PM - Re: Attaching the Wings (Jesse Saint)
9. 01:35 PM - Re: Attaching the Wings (Kelly McMullen)
10. 06:45 PM - Attaching RV10 wings (Doc)
11. 07:08 PM - Re: Attaching RV10 wings (Danny Riggs)
12. 07:29 PM - Re: Attaching RV10 wings (dmaib@me.com)
13. 07:34 PM - Re: Attaching RV10 wings (Kelly McMullen)
14. 07:47 PM - Re: Attaching the Wings (Stefan Kothe)
15. 08:10 PM - Re: Attaching the Wings (dmaib@me.com)
16. 08:12 PM - Re: Attaching RV10 wings (Deems Davis)
17. 08:50 PM - Re: Attaching RV10 wings (Jesse Saint)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wet Dog Syndrome On Shutdown |
It means not all cylinders quit firing at the same time. Whether that is
mixture, ignition, or something else has to be determined. A slow mixture
pull to cutoff will show what rise in rpm you get from the leaning, if any,
to allow proper idle mixture adjustment. There can be problems with the
flow divider fuel cutoff that lets one or more cylinders get fuel when the
others have quit. You need to figure out by shutdown with mags, and a
shutdown by slow mixture cutoff if the fuel flow is not stopping all at
once, or if the problem is somewhere else.
-sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
wrote:
>
> Sorry, but I am confused.
>
> The engine does stop, obviously, just not without doin' the shake. Are
> you saying it may be set too rich, causing it to still fire during shutdown?
>
> Kelly McMullen <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
>> June 14, 2016 at 10:09 PM
>>
>> Your mixture should give a 50 rpm rise if you pull mixture slowly to
>> cutoff. If more, too rich. If less, too lean.
>> Shouldn't make any difference where it is set, you should still get
>> cutoff when mixture is pulled to the stop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wet Dog Syndrome On Shutdown |
Almost all my aircraft engine experience is with 4 cylinders. When I
finally get to run my new IO-540 ..... I'll be in unknown (for me)
territory. The 'wet dog' shaking just might be normal ..... the term is
terribly subjective. New engines, higher compression, and two more
cylinders than we're used to might make the difference. Before going
through all the testing that's been suggested here, I think another
couple pairs of eyes to watch the shutdown might be more productive. I
can imagine that soft tires and stock gear (without the stiffeners)
might allow the airframe to rock more violently than the converse,
allowing the owner to feel that the activity was more violent than it
should be. I would find another RV-10 owner with plenty of hours in the
logs physically compare the activity before chasing down problems that
aren't there.
Linn
On 6/15/2016 6:20 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> It means not all cylinders quit firing at the same time. Whether that
> is mixture, ignition, or something else has to be determined. A slow
> mixture pull to cutoff will show what rise in rpm you get from the
> leaning, if any, to allow proper idle mixture adjustment. There can be
> problems with the flow divider fuel cutoff that lets one or more
> cylinders get fuel when the others have quit. You need to figure out
> by shutdown with mags, and a shutdown by slow mixture cutoff if the
> fuel flow is not stopping all at once, or if the problem is somewhere
> else.
>
> -sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com
> <mailto:sean@stephensville.com>> wrote:
>
> <sean@stephensville.com <mailto:sean@stephensville.com>>
>
> Sorry, but I am confused.
>
> The engine does stop, obviously, just not without doin' the
> shake. Are you saying it may be set too rich, causing it to still
> fire during shutdown?
>
> Kelly McMullen <mailto:kellym@aviating.com
> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
> June 14, 2016 at 10:09 PM
> <kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>
> Your mixture should give a 50 rpm rise if you pull mixture
> slowly to cutoff. If more, too rich. If less, too lean.
> Shouldn't make any difference where it is set, you should
> still get cutoff when mixture is pulled to the stop.
>
>
> ==========
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
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> ==========
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wet Dog Syndrome On Shutdown |
Well, I agree with having an experienced observer, I don't agree about
differences with 4 cyl. I have about 800 hours in 200 hp Mooney and other
200 hp Lyc powered planes. They all have 8.7 to 1 compression, rather than
the 540 stock 8.5 to 1 pistons. They all shake a lot more on shutdown than
does my IO-540. I don't know if it makes any difference that my 540 has
flow balanced cylinders, and I have 3 blade MT prop.
-sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> Almost all my aircraft engine experience is with 4 cylinders. When I
> finally get to run my new IO-540 ..... I'll be in unknown (for me)
> territory. The 'wet dog' shaking just might be normal ..... the term is
> terribly subjective. New engines, higher compression, and two more
> cylinders than we're used to might make the difference. Before going
> through all the testing that's been suggested here, I think another couple
> pairs of eyes to watch the shutdown might be more productive. I can
> imagine that soft tires and stock gear (without the stiffeners) might allow
> the airframe to rock more violently than the converse, allowing the owner
> to feel that the activity was more violent than it should be. I would find
> another RV-10 owner with plenty of hours in the logs physically compare the
> activity before chasing down problems that aren't there.
> Linn
>
> On 6/15/2016 6:20 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> It means not all cylinders quit firing at the same time. Whether that is
> mixture, ignition, or something else has to be determined. A slow mixture
> pull to cutoff will show what rise in rpm you get from the leaning, if any,
> to allow proper idle mixture adjustment. There can be problems with the
> flow divider fuel cutoff that lets one or more cylinders get fuel when the
> others have quit. You need to figure out by shutdown with mags, and a
> shutdown by slow mixture cutoff if the fuel flow is not stopping all at
> once, or if the problem is somewhere else.
>
> -sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Sorry, but I am confused.
>>
>> The engine does stop, obviously, just not without doin' the shake. Are
>> you saying it may be set too rich, causing it to still fire during shutdown?
>>
>> Kelly McMullen <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
>>> June 14, 2016 at 10:09 PM
>>> kellym@aviating.com>
>>>
>>> Your mixture should give a 50 rpm rise if you pull mixture slowly to
>>> cutoff. If more, too rich. If less, too lean.
>>> Shouldn't make any difference where it is set, you should still get
>>> cutoff when mixture is pulled to the stop.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ==========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wet Dog Syndrome On Shutdown |
I will perform the two tests and report back.
Thanks,
-Sean
> Kelly McMullen <mailto:apilot2@gmail.com>
> June 15, 2016 at 5:20 AM
> It means not all cylinders quit firing at the same time. Whether that
> is mixture, ignition, or something else has to be determined. A slow
> mixture pull to cutoff will show what rise in rpm you get from the
> leaning, if any, to allow proper idle mixture adjustment. There can be
> problems with the flow divider fuel cutoff that lets one or more
> cylinders get fuel when the others have quit. You need to figure out
> by shutdown with mags, and a shutdown by slow mixture cutoff if the
> fuel flow is not stopping all at once, or if the problem is somewhere
> else.
>
> -sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Attaching the Wings |
I am attaching the wings here in a week or so. Are there any tips, tricks,
advice you guys can give on getting everything lined up just right?
Anything I should look out for?
How many people should I recruit to pull this off?
I am assuming when I get the first wing attached, I will have to support
that side while attaching the other side, so the plane doesn't tip over.
Or does it stay on all 3?
Thanks,
--
Vernon Franklin
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching the Wings |
Hey Vernon,
Short answer: two people, doesn=99t tip over, expect the bolts to
be very tight (for trial fit use regular bolts). We balanced the wing
on a support so that one guy on the end could easily lift or lower the
tip, while the other guided bolts in. You=99ll get lots of ideas
about final bolts on dry ice to easier insert, etc. We found that on
ours, there was a tiny misalignment of the outer layer of the main spar
that prevented the final bolts going in smoothly. Not really a big deal
=93 have at it!
Later, =93 Lew
From: Vernon Franklin
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 3:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Attaching the Wings
I am attaching the wings here in a week or so. Are there any tips,
tricks, advice you guys can give on getting everything lined up just
right? Anything I should look out for?
How many people should I recruit to pull this off?
I am assuming when I get the first wing attached, I will have to support
that side while attaching the other side, so the plane doesn't tip over.
Or does it stay on all 3?
Thanks,
--
Vernon Franklin
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching the Wings |
Other than getting help putting the wings up on to saw horses I was able
to do it myself. Just take your time and be sure to make and use the
drift pins that are mentioned in the plans.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Fly-off
On Jun 15, 2016, at 12:09 PM, Vernon Franklin wrote:
> I am attaching the wings here in a week or so. Are there any tips,
tricks, advice you guys can give on getting everything lined up just
right? Anything I should look out for?
>
> How many people should I recruit to pull this off?
>
> I am assuming when I get the first wing attached, I will have to
support that side while attaching the other side, so the plane doesn't
tip over. Or does it stay on all 3?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
Westcott Press
1121 Isabel Street
Burbank, CA 91506
jeff@westcottpress.com
818-861-7300
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching the Wings |
I like doing it with 4 people, one to hold the wingtip, one on the trailing edge,
one on the leading edge and one to put the bolts in. The guy on the wingtip
will need to move up, down, forward and aft to get the holes lined up. The guy
on he trailing edge will need to spread the rear spar attach points to get the
rear spar in (don't pin the rear spar until the main spar bolts are in). It
will sit on the wheels with one wing on. No support needed as long as there is
no fuel in it.
If you can find some old bolts the right size for the larger or smaller main holes,
cut off the head and make a bullet out of it and drive that through and follow
it with the bolt with the shaft greased.
Be careful with the outboard bolts where they can hit the fuel tank fittings.
Two bolts (one top and one bottom) will hold the wing so you can move to the other
side and cut your helpers loose.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 15, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am attaching the wings here in a week or so. Are there any tips, tricks, advice
you guys can give on getting everything lined up just right? Anything I
should look out for?
>
> How many people should I recruit to pull this off?
>
> I am assuming when I get the first wing attached, I will have to support that
side while attaching the other side, so the plane doesn't tip over. Or does
it stay on all 3?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching the Wings |
I used saw horses that I could move back and forth to align. Moveable cart
might have been easier. I had misalignment of spar web, thanks to quick
build, I guess. Had to talk to Vans on how to correct without affecting the
hole in main spar. Used ordinary bolts with threads ground off for pilot
alignment. Used plenty of LPS 3 to make things go together. Installed the
close tolerance bolts after soak in dry ice, and lube. Still snug.
-sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 12:25 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> wrote:
> Hey Vernon,
> Short answer: two people, doesn=99t tip over, expect the bolts to b
e very
> tight (for trial fit use regular bolts). We balanced the wing on a suppo
rt
> so that one guy on the end could easily lift or lower the tip, while the
> other guided bolts in. You=99ll get lots of ideas about final bolt
s on dry
> ice to easier insert, etc. We found that on ours, there was a tiny
> misalignment of the outer layer of the main spar that prevented the final
> bolts going in smoothly. Not really a big deal =93 have at it!
>
> Later, =93 Lew
>
> *From:* Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 15, 2016 3:09 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Attaching the Wings
>
> I am attaching the wings here in a week or so. Are there any tips,
> tricks, advice you guys can give on getting everything lined up just
> right? Anything I should look out for?
>
> How many people should I recruit to pull this off?
>
> I am assuming when I get the first wing attached, I will have to support
> that side while attaching the other side, so the plane doesn't tip over.
> Or does it stay on all 3?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Attaching RV10 wings |
Do not attach the wings with the plane sitting on its landing gear. Make
sure the fuselage is level in all aspects (Follow the instructions) or
you will not have it rigged right and the plane will not fly level and
straight with hands off the stick. Doc #41087 N123CV
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching RV10 wings |
Since you are installing wings on a RV-10 there is nothing to it. The wings only
go on one way. I had two people help me, tho you can do it with just one strong
helper. Get some bolts just a bit smaller than the ones holding the wings
on. Grind the tips down to facilitate sliding them in temporarily. I believe the
plans tell you how to do this. I had no problem doing one wing at a time as
the wheel stance is quite wide. The attachment is so precise that there isn't
anything to line up or jig up. Bolt them on and they are perfectly aligned. The
plans have you do so WITH the gear on and leveling is not a problem as they
only go on one way. This is not true of some of the other RV models.
Follow the directions!
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 15, 2016, at 8:49 PM, Doc <docclv@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>
> Do not attach the wings with the plane sitting on its landing gear. Make sure
the fuselage is level in all aspects (Follow the instructions) or you will not
have it rigged right and the plane will not fly level and straight with hands
off the stick. Doc #41087 N123CV
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching RV10 wings |
jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM wrote:
>
> Follow the directions!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> > On Jun 15, 2016, at 8:49 PM, Doc wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Do not attach the wings with the plane sitting on its landing gear. Make sure
the fuselage is level in all aspects (Follow the instructions) or you will
not have it rigged right and the plane will not fly level and straight with hands
off the stick. Doc #41087 N123CV
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Follow the directions is the best advice you can get.
No problem putting the wings on with the airplane sitting on the gear on the RV-10.
Follow the directions.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457191#457191
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching RV10 wings |
Say What?As others have said, there is NO mention of leveling the
fuselage in Section 44, mounting the wings. The holes for all but the
rear spar and fuel tank bracket are precision pre-drilled, so you can't
screw up the alignment following the plans.
On 6/15/2016 6:44 PM, Doc wrote:
>
> Do not attach the wings with the plane sitting on its landing gear. Make
> sure the fuselage is level in all aspects (Follow the instructions) or
> you will not have it rigged right and the plane will not fly level and
> straight with hands off the stick. Doc #41087 N123CV
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching the Wings |
Take the fuel tanks off, and dry ice the bolts for 6 hrs.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 15, 2016, at 12:25 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> <lewgall@charter.net> w
rote:
>
> Hey Vernon,
> Short answer: two people, doesn=99t tip over, expect the bolts to be
very tight (for trial fit use regular bolts). We balanced the wing on a su
pport so that one guy on the end could easily lift or lower the tip, while t
he other guided bolts in. You=99ll get lots of ideas about final bolt
s on dry ice to easier insert, etc. We found that on ours, there was a tiny
misalignment of the outer layer of the main spar that prevented the final b
olts going in smoothly. Not really a big deal =93 have at it!
>
> Later, =93 Lew
>
> From: Vernon Franklin
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 3:09 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Attaching the Wings
>
> I am attaching the wings here in a week or so. Are there any tips, tricks
, advice you guys can give on getting everything lined up just right? Anyth
ing I should look out for?
>
> How many people should I recruit to pull this off?
>
> I am assuming when I get the first wing attached, I will have to support t
hat side while attaching the other side, so the plane doesn't tip over. Or d
oes it stay on all 3?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
=============
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching the Wings |
Not sure why you would take the fuel tanks off. "Follow the directions" is the
best advice I have seen on this forum.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457195#457195
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching RV10 wings |
??
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Doc <docclv@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> Do not attach the wings with the plane sitting on its landing gear. Make
> sure the fuselage is level in all aspects (Follow the instructions) or you
> will not have it rigged right and the plane will not fly level and straight
> with hands off the stick. Doc #41087 N123CV
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching RV10 wings |
The RV-10 doesn't have to be rigged. It is pre drilled and doesn't need to be level
in any aspect to install the wings.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 15, 2016, at 9:44 PM, Doc <docclv@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>
> Do not attach the wings with the plane sitting on its landing gear. Make sure
the fuselage is level in all aspects (Follow the instructions) or you will not
have it rigged right and the plane will not fly level and straight with hands
off the stick. Doc #41087 N123CV
>
>
>
>
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